Challenging the SCD/GAPS guidelines: Deep dive into disaccharides, fiber types

I’ve had Crohn’s a long time. I’ve done SCD and GAPS many times before. Many have come along and modified these diets, often in similar ways. In particular, white rice and white potato often become additions rather quickly. I've seen this not only in the opinions of leaders in this community, but also in their clients. I've been part of private groups due to paying for advice from these people. I could see many of their clients also doing better on white rice and potatoes than on whole legumes(regardless of preparation method).

First of all, I'm irritated that I can't find a list of disaccharide contents of food. I realize it changes based on preparation method, but that doesn't stop us from listing the content of other things like sugar. Sugar in carmelized onions is different than raw. So the nutritional data simply tells you how it's prepared("onions, raw" for example)

Then there's the factor of fiber which confounds all of this. Was it the disaccharide content that bothered me or the fiber? “Fiber” is way too vague of a word. Insoluble fiber is often much harder to digest in general. That’s still too vague. There are categories of resistant starch, this seems to matter too. I can digest flax, chia, and soaked almonds better than other nuts and seeds.

Maybe this is too much for one topic. The main point is this: I think if I soak, ferment, pressure cook, dextrinize, and otherwise obliterate the hell out of some white rice it’s going to be easier to digest than some beans prepared following the minimal guidelines for SCD approval.  To be fair, I could do all that stuff to beans too. The fiber still remains in one form or another though.

I see some of these leaders switching to more of a WAPF diet, but with white rice. One guy recommends letting mashed potatoes sit overnight with some yogurt mixed into them. I tried this for a while and I think it helped. I was carnivore for a while, so I haven’t done it recently. It doesn’t sound good to me now though. I’d rather obliterate some millet or other lesser known grain I find easier to digest. Most roots and tubers don’t appeal to me now….which is in line with SCD philosophy.

I would personally add from my experience in India and studying Ayurveda that dals(which are refined, they have skin removed) are much easier to digest than the beans (and even the lentils) listed in SCD and GAPS. I highly recommend anyone struggling with legumes on SCD to try out some dals. Some may be familiar with mung dal. Ahar dal is another good one. It is sometimes used to make sambar, a great digestive for me. Indian culture is way more concerned with digestion. Even the grains like ragi are much easier to digest. Ragi roti seems easier to digest than some legumes.

And then there is my all time favorite food, dosa. A perfect example of what I’m talking about. It’s aged, it has white rice, urad dal(white lentil, black lentil with skin removed…some parts of India leave out the dal to be clear). I encourage those of you trying these kinds of diets to (if you think it’s safe for your diet) go to a South Indian restaurant and try ghee dosa, it comes with sambar.

Anyway, if someone could point me towards any info on disaccharide content of food, I would appreciate it. I feel like this whole “legumes [usually] good, grains bad” is just too convenient and not in line with my experience. There’s also the factors of quantity and proportion. I see some SIBO experts allowing lentils and white rice in small quantities. This makes a lot more sense to me. And eating starch with non-starchy vegetables helps me a lot too. Probably keeps the microbiome in check.

I am sorry no one has answered your question.

Your post has many acronyms/abbreviations that folks may not know the meaning of.

My suggestion would be not to worry about all the disaccharides in foods and to eat a no-carbohydrate diet.

For other folks who may not know what disaccharides are:

What Foods Contain Disaccharides? There are three main types of disaccharides: lactose, sucrose, and maltose. Lactose is found in dairy products while maltose is found in germinating grains as well as malted foods and beverages. Sucrose is also known as table sugar but can also be found in some fruits and veggies.

https://www.schaer.com › en-us › disaccharides

Thank you for the bump Anne. I knew this was a longshot. I’ve seen a fair amount of people mention SCD(specific carbohydrate diet) or GAPS(guts and psychology something? Even I don’t know) on permies. They are diets which remove foods supposedly containing high amounts of disaccharide and polysaccharide carbohydrates. These carbs can ferment in the intestines in those with inhibited digestive power, making digestion worse.

SIBO is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.
Dysbiosis is an improper balance in the gut microbiome.
WAPF is the Weston A. Price Foundation

There’s also a good amount of discussion of fermentation on permies, and cooking methods for breaking down starchy foods. I’m wondering if others with digestive conditions (or their loved ones whom they cook for) find that grains prepared with some sort of aging process (or simply pressure cooking, very slow cooking, etc.) are easier to digest than beans, roots, tubers, or even fruit for that matter.

I’ve done the no carb thing many times, many ways. Carnivore, Wahls protocol(I’ve tried all levels), and various other keto diets. I’m currently having trouble digesting meat, and even seafood is tough. The amount of fat I would need is a challenge for my digestion, and I end up losing weight on those diets anyway.. The only way I’m getting close to normal digestion is with some rice in my diet, along with lentils and some other legumes.

I’m in desperate need on gaining weight. So far I believe I’m gained about 10-15lbs. since leaving the hospital a few weeks ago. It’s hard to know because of the edema in my legs which I’m losing simultaneously. I attribute much of my weight gain to rice and corn, but I had to cut out the corn too. Rice is tricky, but I’m getting it to work for me. Indian varieties like basmati and jeerakasala have been best.

I finally bought a copy of Nourishing Traditions. Looking forward to playing around with some of those preparation ideas.

Nourishing Traditions is a really good book to have.

Has your doctor given you a diet plan to use?  

Have you tried making bone broth?  If it doesn't give you a problem then try cooking the rice using the bone broth for the water.

If vegetables don't cause a problem, try making a soup with cabbage, carrots, and potatoes using the bone broth as a base.

I wish I could after more suggestions.

Anne Miller wrote:Nourishing Traditions is a really good book to have.

yes, and it’s about time I stop checking it out from the library. I think I did own a copy years ago before I sold nearly everything I owned to move to India.

Has your doctor given you a diet plan to use?

They like what is called a ‘low residue diet’, which is partly in line with my thinking in this topic. “Partly” in that they want fiber(especially insoluble fiber) to be low. However, they are ok with sugar and a lot of other junk. So white rice and white potatoes fit into a low residue diet, just like I(and many I know with crohns, colitis) have found those two foods to be easier to digest as far as carbs go. Unlike SCD, legumes are to be avoided on the low residue diet.

Have you tried making bone broth?  If it doesn't give you a problem then try cooking the rice using the bone broth for the water.

If vegetables don't cause a problem, try making a soup with cabbage, carrots, and potatoes using the bone broth as a base.

I wish I could after more suggestions.

Yeah, I drink broth consistently. However, another thing I have found to be common amongst those with severely impaired digestion is that a simple stock made from collagen rich animal parts cooked for a shorter period (say 2 hours) is easier on the digestive system. My understanding is that this is because of more collagen, less glycine. Bone broth—especially when cooked for these long lengths of time—will have a higher glycine content.

…

Ok, on to a clarification and the topic of honey, which came up in the homemade soda thread(Homemade soda)

Years ago I went to a school of integrative medicine. It was mainly an integration of Chinese medicine with modern nutrition, pharmacology(highlighting interactions with herbs), anatomy/physiology, etc. I asked the professor of modern nutrition(whom works with professional athletes, and also taught at UCSD) “which foods have disaccharides?”

Her response: “all of them”….she didn’t mean that literally, but most carb sources will have a mixture. In the SCD/GAPS world, it’s quite common to refer to a food higher in disaccharides as “a disaccharide”. But the reality is disaccharides are in carbs that are allowed on SCD, just in smaller quantities (supposedly). This why I mentioned liking these rules for quantities of rice(and other foods) on SIBO protocols. It’s about quantity management, or at least I think it should be. Much like how glymeic load takes into account the quantity of food people often eat, whereas glycemic index is for equal amounts of every food.

Here is an article on honey vs. sugar from Arizona University: https://cals.arizona.edu/backyards/sites/cals.arizona.edu.backyards/files/b13fall_pp11-13.pdf

From the article: “Honey and sugar are both made up of a combination of glucose and fructose. In sugar, glucose and fructose are bound together to form sucrose, which comes from sugar beets or sugar cane and is more commonly known as table sugar. In honey, fructose and glucose are primarily independent of each other. Additionally, about 25 different oligosaccharides have been detected in the composition of honey.”

The glucose and fructose are “primarily independent of each other”, meaning they are in their monosaccharide form, not bonded as a disaccharide.

Here’s another resource: Carbohydrate content of honey

It says “Honey is composed primarily of the simple sugars glucose and fructose – known as monosaccharides and a further 17% to 20% of water.

Honey also contains other types of sugars such as sucrose (which is a disaccharide composed of fructose and glucose linked together through α-1–4 linkage).”

So to wrap this all up. Pressure cooking, soaking, sprouting, etc. will all convert disaccharides to monosaccharides—to an extent. I’ve seen some evidence that pressure cooking may be best, and even make presoaking feel like it may be unnecessary in my opinion. However, I’ll take even a small conversion advantage if I can get it from soaking/aging.

I wish I had a better answer for you. While I've read a hefty amount about nutrition and digestion for my own health, I haven't looked much into disaccharides.

I feel like this whole “legumes [usually] good, grains bad” is just too convenient and not in line with my experience.

Your quote has been in line with my experience, too. I'm to the point that I generally do fine with lentils and don't mind beans occasionally, but sometimes when nearly every other food feels like it sits heavy, grains are friendlier than other options. I think there's wisdom in many of the cultures that use congee (often white rice) for times of impaired digestion, especially when it's a vehicle for more nutrient-dense foods.

I was stressing a lot about what I could or couldn't eat, questioning what caused the reactions and what to avoid next time. Doing a limbic system rewire program (also called brain rewiring or brain retraining) has been helpful. I can't say that I recommend the specific program that I used, but there are many options if it's something that you're interested in. It's ultimately about calming down a high stress response, and one benefit is improved digestion and not reacting negatively to so many foods.

I hope you find what works for you!

Nikki Roche wrote:

I feel like this whole “legumes [usually] good, grains bad” is just too convenient and not in line with my experience.

Your quote has been in line with my experience, too. I'm to the point that I generally do fine with lentils and don't mind beans occasionally, but sometimes when nearly every other food feels like it sits heavy, grains are friendlier than other options. I think there's wisdom in many of the cultures that use congee (often white rice) for times of impaired digestion, especially when it's a vehicle for more nutrient-dense foods.

It’s interesting how dramatic the fluctuations can be. I see a chiropractor who attributes it to fungal infections in particular. He said he went through the same thing. I can’t eat beef(at least the muscle tissue) right now, neither could he. I’ve gone back to congee and kichidi for many of my meals recently. I do think slow cooking congee digests better too. I know some will say that pressure cooking is all you need to break down the carbs optimally, but it doesn’t get the rice to infuse into the water as well. There is a silky smoothness that I find only comes with a long simmer, and I do associate that with easier digestion. I think there are other factors easing digestion in a slow cooked congee.

I was stressing a lot about what I could or couldn't eat, questioning what caused the reactions and what to avoid next time. Doing a limbic system rewire program (also called brain rewiring or brain retraining) has been helpful. I can't say that I recommend the specific program that I used, but there are many options if it's something that you're interested in. It's ultimately about calming down a high stress response, and one benefit is improved digestion and not reacting negatively to so many foods.

I hope you find what works for you!

There is a thread on mind-body healing I started to talk about this stuff. I’m very interested. If you have a story to add, I’d love to read it. I’ve been meaning to add another story for a while now. Thanks for the well wishes.
permies.com/t/211237/personal-care/Mind-body-exercises-healing-physical#1771431