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?? Opinions / options for small 400-600 Watt windmill for pond aeration system??

 
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Hi all,

I'm seeking info for options of a  400-600 Windmill / Solar panel add on "Kit / Combo" ( don't mind piece mealing products as well)  I was looking at marine type products. I'm looking for reliability and trying to keep the cost low as possible. It would be nice to find a controller that has enough inputs for both solar / wind. Anyone have any experience with these smaller systems? appreciated product links or research is appreciated.

Mr. Lorson
IMG_20230409_131244971.jpg
My pond I wish to aerate
My pond I wish to aerate
 
rocket scientist
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Hi;  Welcome to Permies!
A nice-looking pond you have there!
You are wanting a bubbler system to keep it aerated.

To start what is the power requirement for the aerating system?
You will need a battery setup to support your power.
Are steady winds common near your pond?
Wind power is not easy to set up.   A tilting tower with support cables taller than your timber. A constant diversion charge control with a power dump.
Wind gennys only make truly usable power above 10 mph and really you need steady winds closer to 20 mph.
The other thing that probably will not matter, is wind gennys make noise, they are loud!


Now solar power is  SO MUCH easier.   With the newer high-voltage panels and an Mppt charge control.  No power dump is needed.
With that setup even on cloudy days, you will make plenty of power.
You will still need a pair of 6vt batteries to act as your storage bank.
Much less money is involved going with solar only.
Oh and solar power is silent!

 
Mr. Lorson
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thomas rubino wrote:Hi;  Welcome to Permies!
A nice-looking pond you have there!
You are wanting a bubbler system to keep it aerated.

To start what is the power requirement for the aerating system?
You will need a battery setup to support your power.
Are steady winds common near your pond?
Wind power is not easy to set up.   A tilting tower with support cables taller than your timber. A constant diversion charge control with a power dump.
Wind gennys only make truly usable power above 10 mph and really you need steady winds closer to 20 mph.
The other thing that probably will not matter, is wind gennys make noise, they are loud!


Now solar power is  SO MUCH easier.   With the newer high-voltage panels and an Mppt charge control.  No power dump is needed.
With that setup even on cloudy days, you will make plenty of power.
You will still need a pair of 6vt batteries to act as your storage bank.
Much less money is involved going with solar only.
Oh and solar power is silent!

I've included the aerator that I plan own using. I'm good with the wind / solar combo Pennsylvania is beyond cloudy most of the year so wind will also be good alternative.. Im not too concerned with the pole for the windmill, I can post hole for a concrete footer for it. I do want the experience with the charge controllers / "dumps" as you mentioned Mppt's are available for windmills as well, I would like one designed to handle both inputs. . I've never worked with it wind, just mostly with traditional grid electricity and DC Electronics in vehicles / Moto. Im curious of why you would not need a dump zone for solar if you would need them for wind. This is kind of a pet project, but have no electricity near the pond so this is the route I wish to take with wind and solar combined. It could be overkill for the air pump I'm using \, but that is ok with me as I can pull electricity for lights and other accessories if needed. I'm just curious of what brand names and components others have used at this scale of power generation.

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pollinator
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The solar array could also be positioned to receive reflected light off the pond in low light, low sun angle times of year.
 
pollinator
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Mr. Lorson wrote:Hi all,

I'm seeking info for options of a  400-600 Windmill / Solar panel add on "Kit / Combo" ( don't mind piece mealing products as well)  I was looking at marine type products. I'm looking for reliability and trying to keep the cost low as possible. It would be nice to find a controller that has enough inputs for both solar / wind. Anyone have any experience with these smaller systems? appreciated product links or research is appreciated.

Mr. Lorson


Well...
I won't say micro wind is dead but when solar panels are going for 30-40 cents a watt new and less than that used it becomes almost impossible for them to compete. A solar array for what you are talking about could be a single panel with an mppt/load control combo controller, a single battery and your aerator pump. I'm attaching a few pictures to this one of a project I just completed to drain a low lying field that had drain tile in it but was bellow the drainage ditch. This one was pretty heavy duty you could go smaller. This one used an pwm controller since the panel voltage worked well with the 24 volt pump. No inverter so no losses there which made up for the loss in using the pwm.  Sun would average out over a period of time and it would simply be a matter of over aerating some days and less others using pond aeration as a type of battery. You can easily design for the level of cloud you receive with solar but wind is very much a micro climate impossible to estimate without putting one up.
cheers,   David
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Mr. Lorson
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Great design love the cooler idea to house the batteries.

Do you have the product details for the controller and the panels?  There are so many out there. Seeking some insight with brands and models.

Thanks for your info.
 
David Baillie
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Mr. Lorson wrote:Great design love the cooler idea to house the batteries.

Do you have the product details for the controller and the panels?  There are so many out there. Seeking some insight with brands and models.

Thanks for your info.


The panels are longi 360 watt panels they put out 10 amps at 36 volts so perfect for the 24 volt battery pack with losses and low light charging. the controller is a PWM morningstar prostar 30. Morningstar specializes in rough duty telecom, weather, mining charge controllers. The nice thing is it has a built in load controller so you don't kill the battery. You can buy a Chinese knock off for $40 but they suck and they die early. I've seen that controller be outside for 10 years and still be working on spec.
 
thomas rubino
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Hi M;
You might check out these stores     https://windandsolar.com/  or  https://www.kansaswindpower.net/

Why do I need a dump load for wind/ hydro and not solar?
Wind and hydropower use an alternator to create their power.
They must be connected at all times while running to avoid an open circuit voltage.
A dump load is capable of using all excess power safely.
Without a dump load, the alternators over spin creating high voltage, and will ultimately self-destruct.

Solar power does not care if it is connected to a  load or not.
Charge controllers for a solar setup simply disconnect the panels until the battery voltage drops and power is needed.
 
pollinator
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Do you need to go electric?

Windmills were the pumping system used for most of history. Could you build something purely mechanical? Not necessarily as an air pump for a bubbler, but an alternate system?

A mechanical system could lift water a small vertical distance to then feed into a flowform system.

Flow Forms discussion
 
David Baillie
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thomas rubino wrote:Hi M;
You might check out these stores     https://windandsolar.com/  or  https://www.kansaswindpower.net/

Why do I need a dump load for wind/ hydro and not solar?
Wind and hydropower use an alternator to create their power.
They must be connected at all times while running to avoid an open circuit voltage.
A dump load is capable of using all excess power safely.
Without a dump load, the alternators over spin creating high voltage, and will ultimately self-destruct.

Solar power does not care if it is connected to a  load or not.
Charge controllers for a solar setup simply disconnect the panels until the battery voltage drops and power is needed.

in this case Thomas I believe that the bubbler or fountain would substitute well for the dump load. If he added a wind element I would size the pump to be bigger than the wind turbine. Hook the pump to a load controller and have it go on whenever the voltage goes high enough. If he added a solar element to make up the difference it would switch on and off as required adding to the battery charge.
 
David Baillie
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Michael Cox wrote:Do you need to go electric?

Windmills were the pumping system used for most of history. Could you build something purely mechanical? Not necessarily as an air pump for a bubbler, but an alternate system?

A mechanical system could lift water a small vertical distance to then feed into a flowform system.

Flow Forms discussion


There is certainly merit to an all mechanical wind approach either driving a compressor to inject air or a water pump to pump to a fountain. The problem with those mechanical pumps you see historically is they are close to the ground so don't fully capture the Wind. Traditionally they got very little wind except on the flats and trickled a little water to a raised holding tank or a watering trough so not much volume or much pressure...
 
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