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Perpetual motion

 
John C Daley
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Something to ponder
 
Phil Stevens
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TINSTAAFL* in thermodynamics. Entropy gets all of us in the end.

(there is no such thing as a free lunch)
 
Mike Haasl
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I timed the blocks as they went around.  At the beginning it took about 30 seconds to do 6 revolutions.  At the end it had slowed to 32 or so seconds.  Maybe someone with a steadier hand can confirm but that seems like it wouldn't keep spinning for years at that rate....

(Edited to unswap the numbers)
 
Phil Stevens
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The admission right up front that they "send it to the experts for servicing" every couple of years is the giveaway. Methinks a battery gets recharged or replaced and some lubrication applied to the bearings.
 
Ted Abbey
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Interesting video.. but I found myself completely distracted by the young lady!
 
Steve Zoma
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This reminds me of my generators at work. There, we take 125 volts DC and excite the magnetic fields to generate electricity. We have to use water flow to propel the generators, but we are also getting tremendous work out of them.

This seems to do the same thing. The anode and cathode is the basic exciter, using solar as a means to create the initial external excitation at the hub, which thus gives the higher magnets arranged at 120 degrees the extremely low powered, but three phase motor that it is. The clue to me is the 120 degree phase angles the magnets are set at.

IF the copper pipe did anything, it seems to be acting as a Sterlin Engine, using the cool dense air at the bottom to displace the warmer air at the top, but being in a vacuum I cannot see how airflow would occur.

The key is that it is sent out every two years for service. I doubt at such low speeds under no torque that there is bearing failure. I think like any generator, the field coil has to be "flashed" because it loses excitation after that length of time. It takes electricity to make electricity after all even if it is a seemingly insignificant amount. Most of the time (2 years) it can rotate enough to generate its own excitation, generation and rotation, but every so slowly it loses it.

Incidentally this is not anything new. It is widely known, if the grid was to go down for a lengthy amount of time, generating stations would not have the ability to "flash" the generating fields to induce electrical generation again. Every week at work (Fridays) I start up our black-start 350 KW generator. It is not just to see if it will start, it is to keep the generating fields able to be excited.

 
Michael Qulek
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"but I found myself completely distracted by the young lady"

Hmmm, that was likely the goal from the very beginning.  The "naughty librarian" look?  All part of the scam!
 
Tom Wlazlak
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On the other hand A perpetual motion device is very simple to produce
Use Gravity as the main power source and make a wheel using 24  tubes that have iron balls in each tube
have a magnets put on the tubes on each end and mount them on a wheel inside 2 sets of ring magnets
that allow the magnetic force to be able to turn ON and Off the magnetic attraction force
this allows the iron balls to be lifted inside the tubes at the top and bottom as the wheel turns
much like the Sun evaporates water and allow it to go up and then down to produce hydroelectric power
The magnetic force makes the iron ball life like the evaporation does having the same effect
allowing the gravity to be the main power source and because the rings of magnets of counter reaction is in balance
There is usable power to keep the wheel moving as a limit time perpetual motion motor Mim. 500 years are so.

Most People find this very hard to believe but on the other hand Seeing is believing. But Who wants to believe anyhow?

Tom Wlazlak - EttCM Tech. - Magnagravity - and other such tings that no one is interested in.  But me Of course.


 
Michael Cox
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The best analogy I have heard for perpetual motion machines is shuffling cards.

"I take a 52 card deck. I shuffle it in some very special way. When I'm done I have 53 cards." You don't need to examine the process of very complex and special shuffling to know that the person making the claim has "cheated" in some way. We know that you can't create a card by complicated shuffling. The card must have already existed - likely up the sleeve of the person running the con.

Cards in this analogy are equivalent to energy. We can't create energy by "complicated shuffling". We don't need to examine the intricacies of a mechanism of spinning balls, magnets and flywheels to know that it isn't creating an additional card.

Instead we look to see where the extra card came from. Was it up the magicians sleeve, or under his hat?

It is quite plausible to create devices that extract energy from their surroundings - that's what windmills, solar cells and stirling engines do after all. But perpetual motion machines don't make the claim that they use energy from the surroundings. They claim that they create new energy spontaneously. Hence we look for the "trick". Where is the hidden battery? Does the table have a hidden circuit built in providing a magnetic impulse? How is the "extra card" being slipped into the deck?




 
Tom Wlazlak
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When talking about a Perpetual motion machine The main answer is it is a Theory concept and is not real.
When talking about Thermodynamics All energies came from the Sun at some point
When talking about gravity this is still a theory and not proven and is not Energy So thermodynamic does not apply
When talking about magnetic, this is also a form of Gravity and not energy and so thermodynamic does not apply

So if your card deck has applied to so form of thermodynamic it may not apply to this topic no matter how much you shuffle

But again the truth is in the hands of the beholder, This is why I offer anyone to view my work

Nothing up my sleeve -Please check under the Hat also - Really - if you don't believe - I have nothing to hide See for yourself

it is easy to find me  Tom Wlazlak  EttCM Energy Technology  -  I am doing this using my own money I have never taken any
donations, and never will - This is for the future of the world - Most it seem don't want a World's future - once the normal energy is not enough to support the population Well: Bad things will be the future for all people.  

ether way, I don't care, I am really Old and will be way dead when all that happens. So good time ahead.  young people.

Magnagravity,  Tom

I hope the others that comment on the topic are less future deadly to themselves.

 
Mike Haasl
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Hi Tom, do you have a video of your machine in action?  I'm having trouble picturing it.  For these sorts of things it's very helpful to be able to see it in action.  
 
Tom Wlazlak
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hello mike, I have photos of my work, but no moving videos.  I always say " unless you see it in person do not believe what is shown"?
I have searched for many years for someone else to have the same type of technology but all I find are videos of fakes.
I also tell People Never give money to anyone doing this sort of technology do not buy their books, you have wasted your money.
I see these videos of people claiming working perpetual motion devices.  This is also the sign that it is a fake,
If the people saying perpetual motion don't know that What they are saying can't work - Humm - big sign they may not know there is a difference between the real working and the fake working in any case, do not buy into their plan.  ask to see their tech. in Person.
Like the person above said 1 card short of a full deck.  sometimes 2 cards short.

If anyone is that interested in what my technology does Email me. it is so much easier to show it that way.

google Tom Wlazlak   EttCM    I am not hard to find if a person looks.  I show people drawing, photos, tell how the stuff works
If I did not have working stuff, I would not be doing this. I have a farm and Garden that would knock your socks off.
A Totally equipped Fab. Shop I am an Industrial Design Engineer Retired, Electrical systems design and fab.  Everything.
I have talked to a lot of people on a lot of different  forums, websites, Thousands of people over the pasts many, many years.

So: Ask to see it in Person: or don't but do it because you want to.

Thanks Tom
 
Mike Haasl
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You can upload photos here on permies, then many more people will see it compared to emailing you.  When you reply, there's a tab below the text entry box for Attachments.  
 
Mike Haasl
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Hi Tom, before you go, here's a guide to posting photos: How to post photos to Permies.com

It's easiest to upload them directly from your computer/device.  Uploading documents is much trickier.

In this day and age, no one really wants to have to email you to find out the details anyway.  If your technology is on too large of a scale to be usable on a small farm or homestead, I guess we might not be the right people.  But we do talk about nuclear energy and other big topics so I think we can handle it.  

Some of us are also engineers so we're a bit skeptical until we see something.

I hope you figure out how to post the pictures.
 
Greg Martin
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Nature does "perpetual" motion all the time.  Diffusion, electrons traveling around in their orbitals, planets zipping around their stars.  It's just a question about how to make a device.  No, I'm not saying I have any ideas for this
Perpetual motion is one thing, getting work out is quite another.
 
Nancy Reading
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Greg Martin wrote:Nature does "perpetual" motion all the time.
Perpetual motion is one thing, getting work out is quite another.



I quite like the water cycle - it works quite well in human timescales. Water evaporates, falls as rain, runs down rivers (powers mills) finishes in sea and starts again. All powered by the sun - quite magical!
 
Paul Fookes
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Nancy Reading wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:Nature does "perpetual" motion all the time.
Perpetual motion is one thing, getting work out is quite another.


I quite like the water cycle - it works quite well in human timescales. Water evaporates, falls as rain, runs down rivers (powers mills) finishes in sea and starts again. All powered by the sun - quite magical!


The water cycle works fabulously  while there is our beautiful sun out there driving it.  Certainly, it will not fail in my lifetime but for my money, perpetual motion requires a self generating and sustainable source of power.

We maybe getting close to the mark with diamond batteries: https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-are-turning-nuclear-waste-into-super-efficient-diamond-batteries
 
Whether they will be the great salvation for power we will see, but I am hopeful that this new frontier can move us towards perpetual motion
 
Anne Miller
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For folks who want to tinker with Perpetual motion, I found these ideas on Pinterest:







 
Michael Cox
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Interesting. Though that article is 6 years old. Are you aware of anything more current?

It won't solve any large scale power problems - the power rating is simply too weak (15 Joules per day won't get you much!). But for some niche applications where duration is key it could be really interesting.  I'd love to see how they actually generate  a current from this configuration.

 
Steve Zoma
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Nancy Reading wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:Nature does "perpetual" motion all the time.
Perpetual motion is one thing, getting work out is quite another.



I quite like the water cycle - it works quite well in human timescales. Water evaporates, falls as rain, runs down rivers (powers mills) finishes in sea and starts again. All powered by the sun - quite magical!



The sad part about this is, hydro electric power is NOT considered renewable power so we do not get the green credits for carbon sequestration, but garbage-to-power plants do. It is a lot of money too.

But in New England we kick butt: about 12 percent comes from rivers.most days it’s more than “renewable” power. But most power here is natural gas or nuclear power. Than imported power from foreign nations.

It is really sad
 
Nancy Reading
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Staff note:

Some posts have been deleted for not meeting our publishing standards

Remember be nice and certain topics are only to be discussed in the Cider Press

This note will self destruct in three days




 
Mike Haasl
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Is the water cycle perpetual motion if it relies on the outside input of the sun?
 
Nancy Reading
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Mike Haasl wrote:Is the water cycle perpetual motion if it relies on the outside input of the sun?



Nope - only lasts while our sun and planet does - I'm happy with that!
 
Mike Haasl
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I guess I'm implying that if solar energy is an input, a device can't be called perpetual.  IE a solar panel running a motor isn't considered perpetual, right?
 
Michael Cox
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Mike Haasl wrote:I guess I'm implying that if solar energy is an input, a device can't be called perpetual.  IE a solar panel running a motor isn't considered perpetual, right?



I would argue that, as the term "perpetual motion" is commonly used, solar would not be an example of perpetual motion. The common usage is that there is no external energy source... and some claims even go so far as to infer that the device can be used to power other thing.

In practice devices that appear to be "perpetual" either slowly run down, or extract energy from their environment in some way (solar, wind, a hidden circuit driving an oscillating magnetic field etc...).

EDIT: fixed a misplaced comma that changed the meaning
 
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