Our 12th kickstarter is launching soon! To get the earlybird goodies, click 'notify me on launch'
Permies KickStarter DiscussionEarlybird GoodiesGet a KickStarter Kickback
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • r ranson
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Leigh Tate
stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • paul wheaton
  • Mike Haasl
master gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Jay Angler
  • Nancy Reading
gardeners:
  • Beau Davidson
  • thomas rubino
  • Edward Norton

Is it just me?

 
pioneer
Posts: 330
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think that SKIP and PEP/PEX are great ideas to help one define the skills needed to live a life that is closer to the land, closer to your food source... I think they are great for everyone to know at least some of these skills, have at least some of these experiences. I applaud everyone who has contributed to the lists of things to do and learn, and to those who are completing so many and getting credited here at Permies.com for their efforts. Really, I do!

That said, I wonder if I am the oddball who has already done many things in those lists many years ago and feel no need to do them again just to take pictures to prove I can do them? I attempted to upload the pictures of the last one I tried to participate in no less than 3 times and still didn't get them to upload right. I've uploaded pictures of many things here quite successfully, and from my cell phone at that, but this one thing really soured me to the whole "let's prove to everyone that I can do/have done this thing".  I know what I've done. I don't necessarily need approval that I've done it.

I like the suggestions from others about things maybe I haven't even thought of in regards to this sort of lifestyle we are all talking about. I like seeing how others have done this or that. I've gotten some good food for thought on posts I've made or commented on. This is an amazing community. But I just don't care to jump through hoops to prove I can do something. Though I DO understand the whys of proving you can or have done the thing. Maybe I feel this way because I've always been non-conformist, or I've just reached THAT age. Maybe, since I know I'm moving to 40 acres of woods, I don't feel I need to prove to some stranger (Otis?) that I CAN take care of the property they might be leaving to me....

I just wonder if I am the only one feeling like this.  

Some of you may ask, "Then why did you order a SKIP book?" I did that to have on hand the lists of those skills to refer back to as I attempt to teach grandchildren the skills they might need, because we know they aren't learning much of this stuff in public school!! And hand copying them all is a real pain in the bleep.

Thanks for listening to my belly-aching.  Carry on.
 
master steward & author
Posts: 27725
Location: Left Coast Canada
9050
4
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 16
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There are a lot of things I have done or do on a regular basis that I'm not applying for BBs because I've already done it or I don't want my friends knowing I can do plumbing and other basic house repairs because they want me around their house doing their work.  

That said, I think it's great fun to get badges.  

As a farmer who has a lot of trouble with hired and volunteer help over the years, the biggest advantage I can see to PEP is hiring.  So many people say they understand how to farm.  But what they lack is the ability to listen to the instructions.  They read an article online, therefore they know more about someone who has been farming for generations.  Then I have to spend 6 times as much time repairing the damage they did than it would take for me to do the job in the first place.

If I ever get volunteer or hired help on the farm, having PEP badges will be an important part of the hiring process.  I need to know they can follow instructions.  
 
pollinator
Posts: 1510
Location: Southern Oregon
439
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think that it really depends on what you are trying to do. I thought, and I may be wrong, that part of the badges, etc. was to provide information to people looking to pass on their land and/or knowledge and wanting some assurance that people were serious. I have my own land and have people that I'm already passing it on to, so that's not for me. I'm totally okay with just letting that pass me by. I've never gotten the impression that involvement in that part of permies was required, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm a big fan of the idea, take what you want and feel free to leave the rest behind.
 
master gardener
Posts: 7504
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
3535
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cindy, it sounds to me from your description, that you're the Otis, and you *are* trying to pass some skills on to your grand-children, and I totally commend you for that! I think it's *really* important that we try to teach the next generation many of the skills that are near extinction in the general North American population. I could probably name you 5 "20-somethings" who would struggle to light a match, let alone get a fire started. It would have been something most 5 year olds were capable of 100 years ago. My Great-Grandmother was taken out of school at age 7 to run the entire house - cleaning, cooking, resource management. She never learned to read or write because of it, but she could do everything that needed doing to keep the household running.

As r ranson says, some of us already have many of the SKIP skills and don't need to prove it to anyone. I did some BB's more so that I would understand what others were doing, and to check that the process made sense.

That said, I was having trouble with pictures loading because the BB's are very picture heavy. As I run into threads that give my computer some trouble, as staff I can tweak some of the parameters to help. If you try to open a BB thread and it seems slow or glitchy, please hit the report button and identify the symptoms in the box and a staff member will have a look.
 
pollinator
Posts: 624
Location: Greybull WY north central WY zone 4 bordering on 3
170
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
No it isn't just you.  I get the reason for it but I am well past needing to prove any of it.  I grew up as a rural farm kid with both parents having large skills sets and believing in teaching the kids as much as possible.  Poor and rural they did nearly everything themselves.  Doctor, Dentist, injection pump repair and radiators were about the only things they paid someone else to do.  The rest they did.  Before he retired by dad bought a radiator shop so that was added to the skills list to.  The house was nearly always being remodeled or added on to the whole time I was growing up.  I grew up doing plumbing, electrical, carpentry both cabinet and framing, mechanicing and a host of other skills.  If my parents had to call say  the vet in for example part of the visit was learning to do that skill so they didn't need to call him again for that issue.  I grew up running the farm machinery and working the livestock.  Tending the garden, canning etc.  I sew, embroider, knit and more there too.  I will admit I have skills shortages compared to my parents in many areas.  But I have another whole bunch they didn't too.  I program in more than a dozen languages and can work on half a dozen operating systems, do electronics design and trouble shooting, web design, spreadsheets, database management.

 I am a long ways from knowing it all.  The big thing is I know enough to develop more skills in the areas where I am short if needed.  And I have skills that cross train.  For example about 5 years ago I took a pottery class.  Used existing wood working skills to make molds, existing metal working skill to make special tools, existing sewing skills to make a reusable mold.  Things learned doing metal casting turned out to apply to pottery.  

But I am unlikely to put much effort into the badges.  For example the best thing that ever happened to my stick welding was to burn 300 lbs of rod in a year.  I am very unlikely to do that again.  So generating the welding time to get the higher badges is unlikely.  Not because I don't have the skills but simply because I don't have the steps documented.  There again I am unlikely at 56 to build another house from scratch.(at least I hope I am)  If I happen to be doing a badge skill, if I can document it easily I may.  But I don't see doing it just to get a badge.  I have been there and done that and I don't need that proof.
 
master gardener
Posts: 4460
Location: southern Illinois, USA
1436
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig bee solar wood heat homestead
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I feel that the SKIP program is a great idea. That said, I have not sought out a single badge.  At 72, I have most of the skills I need.  But, if I look back at myself in the mid 20’s, I would be hunting down the badges .... not to prove anything to anyone else, but for an opportunity to learn in an organized manner.
 
r ranson
master steward & author
Posts: 27725
Location: Left Coast Canada
9050
4
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Getting the badges is a lot of fun in a way because I get the same dopamine rush I used to get from playing video games and winning the "you killed 10,000 slime monsters" badge.

Only with BBs I also get something done around the house.  
 
pioneer
Posts: 256
Location: SF Bay, California Zone 10b
120
forest garden fungi foraging cooking
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think this sentiment is pretty common, actually. Based on discussions I've seen here or elsewhere, there's two big motivators for people doing PEP: they either want to learn the skills associated with it, or they want to go through the whole program and actually get some land out of it. The former seem to be more common, which makes sense considering it's a smaller commitment.

A couple of folks have said they do BBs for the purpose of showing others how they can be done, which is great for the program.

It sounds like PEP isn't as useful for you since you have land you're going to and you already know a lot of these skills. I think the SKIP program can be helpful even if you don't go through the approval process - it's like a big list of skills you can reference when considering what to learn next. That being said, if you're confident that you know what a BB entails, you don't want to inherit land, and you don't want to put up your work as an example for others, then you won't get much benefit from making a submission and having it verified. I don't think this is a flaw in the program - it's like the difference between someone who attends lectures at a college without ever enrolling, versus someone who enrolls and goes through tests and gets graded. The knowledge is free, but having proof that you know these things takes more effort.
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 330
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
These replies all have great and valid points, and every one has helped me process the sourness I was feeling. Thank you for being a part of my village. I needed it more than I realized.  Having read all these responses felt incredibly supportive.

Thank you.
Thank you.

 
pollinator
Posts: 96
Location: Yorkshire, UK 🇬🇧 (Zone 8A, I think)
53
cat urban ungarbage
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:Getting the badges is a lot of fun in a way because I get the same dopamine rush I used to get from playing video games and winning the "you killed 10,000 slime monsters" badge.

Only with BBs I also get something done around the house.  



I know exactly what you mean with this one. I go out on a lot more runs since I found out about the virtual badges you win on Strava.

Never done one of your things, but I can definitely  see the appeal.
 
The problems of the world fade way as you eat a piece of pie. This tiny ad has never known problems:
12 rocket mass heaters documentary - 37 minutes
https://permies.com/wiki/108970/rocket-mass-heaters-documentary-minutes
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic