Our 12th kickstarter is launching soon! To get the earlybird goodies, click 'notify me on launch'
Permies KickStarter Discussion
Earlybird Goodies
Get a KickStarter Kickback
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • r ranson
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Leigh Tate
stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • paul wheaton
  • Mike Haasl
master gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Jay Angler
  • Nancy Reading
gardeners:
  • Beau Davidson
  • thomas rubino
  • Edward Norton

Shaped loom?

 
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have a peg loom that allows me to change the shape of my woven piece. Conceivably circles or stars.  So I wonder about creating custom shapes in the shape of fabric pattern pieces...? Anybody care to chime in on thoughts whether it's even a thing? I'm afraid I have that loom packed and in the middle of a first try in pastel cotton.

This has been on my mind off and on since I received it as a gift. I think the enclosed literature may have shown this concept, or I picked it up during some online hunt for ideas.

Looking at the heart shape in this article as an example of what I mean by shaped loom, but in the shapes of your pattern pieces. Then sew those together to achieve the item of clothing.   http://crochetisfun-amani.blogspot.com/2013/12/weaving-heart-using-martha-stewart-loom.html?m=1
 

Please tell me I'm not crazy!
 
master steward
Posts: 9890
Location: USDA Zone 8a
2984
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cindy, I feel we would need to see the actual loom to be able to tell if it is possible to change the shape of the loom.

What does the literature that came with the loom say is possible.
 
master gardener
Posts: 2664
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland
1020
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cindy, I think that could be a genius moment of yours! Pity you've made it public, that could be a patentable idea! (or is that not a problem in the US?) If you had a precious yarn (such as home spun!) you could end up with zero fabric waste and still have intricately shaped garments. Of course your loom may well be restricted in adaptability or size, but I think the concept is excellent.
If your loom is small, you may have to make an extra seam or so to make larger pieces.
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Anne - I want to say that it is a Martha Stewart expandable (by adding another piece purchased separately) and looking in my purchased items list from Amazon I found it!  https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01H7TQF5U/?coliid=IMXE3HPBYEBSI&colid=31FU7XQ9AB89L&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it   It's a flat surface with holes all over spaced evenly in columns and rows! Not just holes for the pegs on the outermost edges!

Nancy - My thoughts exactly! No waste. Have to think it through to make sure the individual pieces have enough for the seams, and as a woven product might need just a bit more. But the pieces would be the right size for whomever you are making the finished piece for! I don't think it's quite as sustainable as just using woven fabric and cutting that to make your pieces, because who wants to keep changing the configuration for stuff that is of different sizes or how many shapes to this piece of clothing? The alternative would be to have multiple looms taking up space all set in the different configurations? But for one or two people who want something very unique it should be too much hassle.

Thank you for the responses ladies!
 
Anne Miller
master steward
Posts: 9890
Location: USDA Zone 8a
2984
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I just could resist showing off what that loom will do.  I want one.

From the above link:



The innovative loom base and moveable pegs make it easy to weave fun shapes and create Woven pictures.



Thanks for sharing this!

 
master steward & author
Posts: 27729
Location: Left Coast Canada
9053
4
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There are some ways to do shaping on the loom.  SAORI traditions have some really creative ones.

But mostly the shaping is done in the planning.  The loom is chosen to match the desired shape of the cloth.  

Pin looms are great because they combine hand manipulated weaving with basketry techniques.  

Other hand manipulated weaving like tapestry - you can work the warp back into the finished weaving for a fun shaped item.  
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Anne - see what I mean? But it's about the size of a restaurant fabric napkin. And I don't think the extender is much bigger, as the box is smaller. I've seen them at JoAnns Fabric around here. (So Cal) And glad I could be of help in creating a new monster for you!!

r - did you see the pic Anne posted? It shows how this loom can be manipulated to make the desired shape! Thank you for the input.

I think to implement my idea, a much larger base would need to be made to accommodate pattern pieces like pant legs, sleeves, and the main body parts. Or just use this as is and make the finished clothing look more patchwork.
 
r ranson
master steward & author
Posts: 27729
Location: Left Coast Canada
9053
4
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Cindy Haskin wrote:
r - did you see the pic Anne posted? It shows how this loom can be manipulated to make the desired shape! Thank you for the input.



Yes.  That's what I'm talking about here:

Other hand manipulated weaving like tapestry - you can work the warp back into the finished weaving for a fun shaped item.  



The frame loom in the photo is usually used for hand manipulated weaving - aka, the loom doesn't raise or lower the warp threads, we do that by hand.  

And SAORI does a lot of this shaping on the loom for clothing.  They have some great books on this with diagrams and techniques.  I took a few classes from a local SAORI certified instructor and we did some of these clothing where the cloth is shaped on the loom or shaped off the loom before being finished.  

The big problem I had is that when the cloth is finished, it changes shape inconsistently.  Here's what I mean by finished.



The warp will shink in one direction more than the weft and the mixed fibres we used with SAORI style weaving.  So it made for unpredictable finished shapes and we ended up cutting and sewing them anyway.

However, for clothing, if I were to do this again, I would weave some samples so I could harvest some math off the way the fabric shrinks when finishing.  Then it would be easy to get the desired result when shaping the fabric on the loom.  
 
master gardener
Posts: 7511
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
3537
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So what I would picture is a table top which you drill a *lot* of holes in the size that would fit some common dowel/wire size. Most single pattern pieces aren't larger than 3'x3' for shirts, and 2'x5' for pants. You could take an existing sewing pattern that you like, and use it to lay out each pattern piece in turn - or possibly you could do more than one piece at a time if your table top was large enough, but you'd still be working each one as a single woven piece so that all the warp/weft would be turned in at the edges.

Problems:
1. Most clothing is made with a fairly tight weave - this would not lend itself to fine material as it's hard to have strong pins (maybe short lengths of clothes-hanger-wire?) and strong holes close together.
2. There are ways on simply looms to create a "shed", but if one isn't careful with a loom like this, I could see you easily popping the warp right off the pins. Without a shed, this system may save material, but not likely save time.
3. What r ranson said - particularly about asymmetrical shrinkage.

Assets:  
1. Cindy's suggestion of making a "patchwork" outfit out of small squares could work.
2. If done how the pictures show, there wouldn't be any worry of fraying!

Personally, I would mostly stick with what I've been working on - finding patterns that are largely based on rectangles and adapting them to fit me. Learning to use gussets to replace complicated shapes that are integral with single pattern pieces, or simply being prepared to "piece" fabric like they did in the past to make better use of a yard of material. Our current sewing/clothing industry is based on cheap material and cheap labor and has resulted in tremendous pollution and waste. The fact that the OP is at least thinking about that issue and suggesting an alternative, is worthy!
 
Anne Miller
master steward
Posts: 9890
Location: USDA Zone 8a
2984
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Cindy Haskin wrote:I think to implement my idea, a much larger base would need to be made to accommodate pattern pieces like pant legs, sleeves, and the main body parts. Or just use this as is and make the finished clothing look more patchwork.



I have seen some homemade looms.

Have you thought about making one like that loom except bigger?  They are called Peg Looms.

A craft store near you might sell the pegs and the square loom the size you are wanting.

A book on Peg Weaving would be fun to see what all can be made on a Peg Loom.

 
r ranson
master steward & author
Posts: 27729
Location: Left Coast Canada
9053
4
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One thing I've seen in places where they have dirt floors - they hammer the pegs right into the floor and weave that way.  That way they can change the shape and size whenever they want.  
 
master gardener
Posts: 5038
2502
2
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Anne Miller wrote:Cindy, I feel we would need to see the actual loom to be able to tell if it is possible to change the shape of the loom.

What does the literature that came with the loom say is possible.



I actually have that peg loom set in the extended version (Martha Stewart), and yes, configuring it in various shapes is doable. I've not seen anything in the directions for it, because the thing is billed as a modular knitting loom (though it may, at one time have been there - my box is long gone). I'd given some thought to using it this way to make cute pockets and such, but it never occurred to me to try to use it for making pattern pieces! Brilliant!!
 
pollinator
Posts: 166
Location: Southeast corner of Wyoming
46
urban fiber arts
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Grin I believe you are thinking of something like a Pampa loom.  https://www.pampaloom.com/en/

I have seen them and things made from them posted in the pin loom weaving group I am  https://www.facebook.com/groups/pinloomweaving  However most of us seem to just make squares, rectangles, hexagons (the turtle looms) and related shapes then sew them together to make clothing, etc.
 
Carla Burke
master gardener
Posts: 5038
2502
2
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Dorothy, I absolutely LOVE that your group calls itself a "support group", lol - because fiber work/play/art really DOES become an addiction!  

Do you have any personal experience with the Pampa loom?
 
Dorothy Pohorelow
pollinator
Posts: 166
Location: Southeast corner of Wyoming
46
urban fiber arts
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Carla Burke wrote:Dorothy, I absolutely LOVE that your group calls itself a "support group", lol - because fiber work/play/art really DOES become an addiction!  

Do you have any personal experience with the Pampa loom?



Be forewarned we do a lot of enabling in the group also...  No personal experience with them but I have seen projects from them posted in the  group.  Grin I am still collecting pin looms from different makers.  And the makers are still developing different looms based on pin spacing, shape etc.  Bluebonnet Crafts developed a hexagon and has now a whole line of sizes, pin spacing, and elongated hexagons you can get.  Wunderwag looms is now adding a line of looms with wider spacing almost like the Blue Butterfly looms. Um yeah I love my pin looms because they are so portable mine are mostly squared but range from 1 inch to 6 inch squares and rectangles.  
 
Carla Burke
master gardener
Posts: 5038
2502
2
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'd be willing to bet you've got your fair share of continuous warp weavers, too, lol. A relatively new addiction of a close personal fiber fiendfriend, of mine. She's trying to drag me into that particular form of pin loom weaving, too. I'll bet these shaped looms would lend themselves very well, to that weaving method, too!
 
Dorothy Pohorelow
pollinator
Posts: 166
Location: Southeast corner of Wyoming
46
urban fiber arts
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yep of course we have bias weavers.  Fairly recently there were discussions how to do bias weave on a 3 pin configured loom.  And Hazel Rose makes some lovely bias looms in various shapes and sizes.  Someday I will get a set of her quilters looms...
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wow! I don't know what I expected, but it wasn't this sort of response. (I'm trying to fulfill my 2nd scavenger hunt and need only a few more original threads!)
That said, I've had to make a list of my responses to those who have responded. I'm humbled by so many staff members chiming in. Thank you. I am honored. And I love that there has been a bit of "off on a tangent" going on and I have requested admittance to the FB group mentioned.

Jay Angler - I really appreciate your input in pros and cons on the idea and find I am most appreciative of your "worthy" compliment. That made my day. I have looked for possible ideas of a stronger "pin" for any possible created looms to keep my warp from falling off and found a small round hat type loom using cotter pins. If I used the just-right size, I might be able to keep my warp on, and make a finer weave! Thanks for the grey matter-inducing ideas!

R! Ranson - do you have any input on amount of shrinkage to expect by fiber? I do use alot of cotton warp 8/4 just to crochet bags for storage of future root crops, though that may not be what actually happens. The "hand manipulated" is something I hadn't thought of before, so I'm already learning more from you!!! This SAORI thing I need to learn more about it seems. Do you have any links to direct me?

Dorothy Pohorelow - Now I want the vest Pampa loom! Thank you. I validates my idea of creating looms in the shapes of pattern pieces!! I've requested to join the FB group you mentioned. Please explain "bias weave". I'm a bit of a sponge looking to suck up the learning in the areas that intrigue me most.

Anne Miller - now there's an idea... a book on what can be created using a peg loom! I hope I can come up with it first!

Carla Burke - Thank you for the "brilliant" compliment. Put a smile on my face!

Nancy Reading - I looked up where you are. My aren't you way north! Scotland is on my bucket list. If I ever make it, I'll try to look you up!

You have all given me plenty more to think about, research, plan, etc. and I thank you all from the bottom of my heart.  Apparently I needed this boost!

Brightest Blessings to all.
 
r ranson
master steward & author
Posts: 27729
Location: Left Coast Canada
9053
4
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Cindy Haskin wrote:
R! Ranson - do you have any input on amount of shrinkage to expect by fiber? I do use alot of cotton warp 8/4 just to crochet bags for storage of future root crops, though that may not be what actually happens. The "hand manipulated" is something I hadn't thought of before, so I'm already learning more from you!!! This SAORI thing I need to learn more about it seems. Do you have any links to direct me?



I do keep records... and I'm going to be a huge meany and not share them.  BECAUSE, my records show there is a huge variation (up to 15%) depending on the loom, the mood of the weaver, the batch of the yarn, the humidity in the atmosphere, what music we listen to....  I give out my numbers, and so many factors can make them wrong.  I would much rather empower people to weave samples.  It's easy and they don't even have to be called samples.  They can be "washcloths" or "tiny towels".

Hand manipulated weaving is one of my favourites.  Some of the best and most complicated weaving I've seen was made on the simplest of machines.  Pin looms are especially powerful because they don't have the dogma of centuries of "the one true path" teachings.  
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:

I do keep records... and I'm going to be a huge meany and not share them.  BECAUSE, my records show there is a huge variation (up to 15%) depending on the loom, the mood of the weaver, the batch of the yarn, the humidity in the atmosphere, what music we listen to....  I give out my numbers, and so many factors can make them wrong.  I would much rather empower people to weave samples.  It's easy and they don't even have to be called samples.  They can be "washcloths" or "tiny towels".

Hand manipulated weaving is one of my favourites.  Some of the best and most complicated weaving I've seen was made on the simplest of machines.  Pin looms are especially powerful because they don't have the dogma of centuries of "the one true path" teachings.  



Not only can I respect that position,  I agree with it. There really isn't any better knowledge than that gained by experience.  
 
Dorothy Pohorelow
pollinator
Posts: 166
Location: Southeast corner of Wyoming
46
urban fiber arts
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The pin looms come in two different configurations.  One is has pins all the way around.  You basicially go across the loom at an angle from one corner to the other your weave the square at the same time you are warping the loom.  If you have ever seen a Tri loom it is that kind of weaving.  On the ones with the groups of 3 pins you lay down 3 layers of warp then physically weave the fourth layer through them.   Hard to explain in words but they make a different type of cloth.
 
Posts: 124
5
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If you're used to pin looms and needleweaving, you might enjoy Rebecca Metzoff's 4 Selvege Tapestry technique.

https://rebeccamezoff.com/fringeless/

You can basically build any shape you want with supplemental warps.
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dorothy Pohorelow wrote:The pin looms come in two different configurations.  One is has pins all the way around.  You basicially go across the loom at an angle from one corner to the other your weave the square at the same time you are warping the loom.  If you have ever seen a Tri loom it is that kind of weaving.  On the ones with the groups of 3 pins you lay down 3 layers of warp then physically weave the fourth layer through them.   Hard to explain in words but they make a different type of cloth.



I've been looking at many of the pictures at the FB group and hunting these pin looms online.  I did notice the ones in groups of 3 pins. Those create a much looser weave than what I'd want to use as everyday garments.

I sorta thought that what I was seeing in the bias weave items what sorta what you describe as wefting as you warp, like single length thread/yarn that just switches from one to the other; warp to weft.
 
Dorothy Pohorelow
pollinator
Posts: 166
Location: Southeast corner of Wyoming
46
urban fiber arts
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would recommend bigfam15 on Etsy if in the US for a Mini Loom and a Traditional loom.  The mini looms are bias weave and traditional loom is the 3 pin configuration.  
These do best with a light worsted/dk weight yarn.  Aran weight is about as heavy as you would go and still be able to weave easily. Sport and fingering weight make a lighter more flimsy fabric on these looms.  
The finer sett looms out there are for fingering weight.  
Blue Butterfly (another maker) need at least worsted weight but makes a denser cloth with bulky.
 
Posts: 169
19
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cindy:

I have been using knitting looms for over 20 years.  I have 2 of these Marth Stewart kits.  You could conceivably make up the front and back of an item, say a pillow, int his case, and package those with directions on how to use the woven heart shapes, sewing together, stuffing.

Now, with the knitting looms themselves, while they  may look like a circle or a heart of  a rectangle, the SHAPE of the loom  does not  translate to the way the KNITTING  that is coming off the loom is shaped like a heart,  rectangle, etc. There are LOADS of Youtbe videos and other sites that have information on stitches and patterns that create texture in the knitted items. You can make afghans, sweaters, shrugs, hats, scarves....anything that can be knitted on 2 needles can be knitted on a knitting loom.  and, knitting looms come in several gauges now, too.

For those that say 'loom knitting is cheating', thats bullcrap. I have carpal tunnel and arthritis in my7 hands, wrists and shoulders and damage to my neck vertebrae, and using knitting needles will absolutely have my hands screaming 'Mercy! UNCLE! OH STOP!* before too long; but I can loom knit for hours because its  easier for me to use the knit looms. My hats, scarves, sweaters, etc, come out looking just as nice as anything knit on needles.  
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Kim Huse wrote:Cindy:

I have been using knitting looms for over 20 years.  I have 2 of these Marth Stewart kits.  You could conceivably make up the front and back of an item, say a pillow, int his case, and package those with directions on how to use the woven heart shapes, sewing together, stuffing.


That's great. I have a sock loom I've yet to try.

I think you have missed my point. I'm not knitting or looking to knit anything by this post. The weaving loom is different, even the Martha Stewart one. Woven fabric doesn't seem to have as much stretch and give as knit and crochet.  The Pampas loom for the vest is the kind of thing I was seeking, just not a vest necessarily.  And I'd like a less pricey option.

I've kept my eyes open looking for other alternatives and have only just recently realized that the thing I seek can be made cheaply in cardboard.  I don't know quite how many pieces can be made on one before degradation begins. As a big woman I would need a refrigerator box for the looms to make the fabric pattern pieces for a specific item of clothing.

I'm happy for you to have found a workable answer to your limitations.  I am feeling considerable stiffness in my hands on cold days, and occasional pain in some joints now and then,  so I know my time to work these ideas may have a time limit. Brightest Blessings to you,  and thank you for your input.
 
Carla Burke
master gardener
Posts: 5038
2502
2
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Cindy Haskin wrote:The Pampas loom for the vest is the kind of thing I was seeking, just not a vest necessarily.  And I'd like a less pricey option.

I've kept my eyes open looking for other alternatives and have only just recently realized that the thing I seek can be made cheaply in cardboard.  I don't know quite how many pieces can be made on one before degradation begins. As a big woman I would need a refrigerator box for the looms to make the fabric pattern pieces for a specific item of clothing.

I'm happy for you to have found a workable answer to your limitations.  I am feeling considerable stiffness in my hands on cold days, and occasional pain in some joints now and then,  so I know my time to work these ideas may have a time limit. Brightest Blessings to you,  and thank you for your input.



I can absolutely see the expense being too much, especially for something you're not even sure will serve your needs. I'm not much on vests, either, though I do see how it could be expanded upon, to add sleeves, skirt, etc. Whether/ how long the cardboard would work would depend on the sturdiness of the cardboard, the tension of the weaving, whether it accidentally got wet, how it's stored, in between uses... But, if you use it once or twice, to get an idea how it will work out, you could then decide if you'd want to buy, commission, or make one in wood. But, just setting up the cardboard loom would be a lot of work, in itself, for someone with much hand pain (something I'm all too familiar with) - particularly making the cuts. If there's someone who could help make the loom, that would be great, and might offer a solution. I know how tough it can be to get that kind of help, though...
 
Kim Huse
Posts: 169
19
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ah, I see wher eyou are going with thus now, Cindy; and  I am interested in knowing how the large cardboard looms would work out, actually; I am a large woman, too; and yeah,
would need  refrigerator sized pieces of cardboard as well...lI am going to keep following this  for input on if it works, would work, etc...and for more suggestions...

As a big woman I would need a refrigerator box for the looms to make the fabric pattern pieces for a specific item of clothing.
 
Dorothy Pohorelow
pollinator
Posts: 166
Location: Southeast corner of Wyoming
46
urban fiber arts
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Remember you can make like half a front and seam pieces together which would allow you to use narrower pieces of cardboard...
 
Jay Angler
master gardener
Posts: 7511
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
3537
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dorothy Pohorelow wrote:Remember you can make like half a front and seam pieces together which would allow you to use narrower pieces of cardboard...

Or alternatively you can take narrow pieces of cardboard and make two layers with the corrugations at 90 degrees to each other, assuming a thicker layer would work. I think I've seen the cardboard loom idea somewhere, and some of the examples looked really wimpy to me. The two layers would need to be firmly attached - white glue might be the easiest.

That said, if fridge/freezer boxes are available, go for it!
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sometimes the tissue paper pattern pieces for tops have 2 pieces for fronts or backs.  First thing I think I need to do is find a pattern that works well for me with fewer pieces. Then experiment with the cross-set of cardboard, perhaps as a small loom just as the test of strength. And learning how to finish off those kinds of edges. I'm very new to weaving and so far have only worked with a pinloom and my twined rugs.
 
Jay Angler
master gardener
Posts: 7511
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
3537
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cindy Haskin wrote:

First thing I think I need to do is find a pattern that works well for me with fewer pieces.

I "think" what you're implying here is that you want to make fewer, "shaped looms" as from what I understand from this whole thread, is that you need a shaped loom for each piece - although technically pattern pieces that say, "cut two" you could use the same loom, but work on the "top side" and then work on the "bottom side".

To my mind, it's a balance. Having a  bunch of narrow pieces of weaving allow you to shape the finished garment without cutting or adding thickness with darts. If I was going to do this much work, I'd want something that really suits my figure and fits well, and fewer pieces could defeat that goal.

My lizard brain is saying, "be careful what you wish for" - and I really want you to tackle this project *and* be pleased with the results, so please consider at least doing a scrap fabric mock-up of the pattern you decide on. My lizard brain isn't always on the right track and it may be misinterpreting what you're thinking - there's a place for simplicity but there's also a place for "well-tailored"!
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jay Angler wrote:Cindy Haskin wrote:

First thing I think I need to do is find a pattern that works well for me with fewer pieces.

I "think" what you're implying here is that you want to make fewer, "shaped looms" as from what I understand from this whole thread, is that you need a shaped loom for each piece - although technically pattern pieces that say, "cut two" you could use the same loom, but work on the "top side" and then work on the "bottom side".

To my mind, it's a balance. Having a  bunch of narrow pieces of weaving allow you to shape the finished garment without cutting or adding thickness with darts. If I was going to do this much work, I'd want something that really suits my figure and fits well, and fewer pieces could defeat that goal.

My lizard brain is saying, "be careful what you wish for" - and I really want you to tackle this project *and* be pleased with the results, so please consider at least doing a scrap fabric mock-up of the pattern you decide on. My lizard brain isn't always on the right track and it may be misinterpreting what you're thinking - there's a place for simplicity but there's also a place for "well-tailored"!



Thank you for your lizard brain suggestions. More that I hadn't thought of to figure in. I'm not a slave to fashion, so anything comfortable and sturdy fits my style. This trait drove my mother nuts, and I had threats of having my favorite pieces of clothing burned until I was 20.

The mock up idea is best for me. I tend to lose interest if it takes too long or becomes more difficult than I am prepared for. I will keep this thread updated as I get steps done. All while packing for the move, working, living, etc!
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dorothy Pohorelow wrote:Grin I believe you are thinking of something like a Pampa loom.  https://www.pampaloom.com/en/

I have seen them and things made from them posted in the pin loom weaving group I am  https://www.facebook.com/groups/pinloomweaving  However most of us seem to just make squares, rectangles, hexagons (the turtle looms) and related shapes then sew them together to make clothing, etc.



I've found that "the woolery" carries many looms, including the pampa! $350 for the 3 piece set, available to do 5 size options each, small, medium or large. https://woolery.com/pampa-loom-vesto-kit.html   It gives me hope that if I can find the right fabric pattern I might be able to eventually create the set of looms. I don't see this happening in the next year or two because of the cross country move we are facing and the settling in once we get there.

I've purchased alpaca yarn from this company and was quite pleased. Now I want alpacas!

There are so many ways to weave different useful items. I hope to be able to learn several more ways before I get too old. At nearly 60 now, I've managed to learn 2 in the last couple years. Rug twining, and now a zoom loom 4" square. I've done under 100 4" squares and I find I'm almost bored. My rug looms never have left me bored.

 
Posts: 31
Location: Pubnico, Nova Scotia
2
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nancy Reading wrote:Cindy, I think that could be a genius moment of yours! Pity you've made it public, that could be a patentable idea! (or is that not a problem in the US?) If you had a precious yarn (such as home spun!) you could end up with zero fabric waste and still have intricately shaped garments. Of course your loom may well be restricted in adaptability or size, but I think the concept is excellent.
If your loom is small, you may have to make an extra seam or so to make larger pieces.



Because a patent can cost tens of thousands of dollars and can take years, and sometimes requires a lawyer, I’m glad Cindy has revealed her idea here. Open Source information is similar to what this Permies forum is all about.

Another option for making money on the idea is if Cindy makes her own looms and sells them, or she could write books on how to make such looms, or teach workshops, and have her idea make money that way.
 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dorothy Pohorelow wrote:

Carla Burke wrote:Dorothy, I absolutely LOVE that your group calls itself a "support group", lol - because fiber work/play/art really DOES become an addiction!  

Do you have any personal experience with the Pampa loom?



Be forewarned we do a lot of enabling in the group also...  No personal experience with them but I have seen projects from them posted in the  group.  Grin I am still collecting pin looms from different makers.  And the makers are still developing different looms based on pin spacing, shape etc.  Bluebonnet Crafts developed a hexagon and has now a whole line of sizes, pin spacing, and elongated hexagons you can get.  Wunderwag looms is now adding a line of looms with wider spacing almost like the Blue Butterfly looms. Um yeah I love my pin looms because they are so portable mine are mostly squared but range from 1 inch to 6 inch squares and rectangles.  



I've joined the support group and everyone is very supportive! I've purchased a 4" square pin loom called the Zoom Loom and woven over 50 little squares just playing with yarn weight and color changes.  They worked up fast and it's quite portable. But I don't relish joining so many tiny pieces to create a much larger whole.

There are many sizes and shapes available in pin looms, from several reputable makers. My 2nd pinloom is a 2 foot triangle.  It takes me a couple hours to complete one.  Two of these joined along the hypotenuse will make a square of approximately 17" (called a 2 foot loom based on the length of the hypotenuse- or longest edge). I am working towards making a piece of clothing with these triangle-shaped bits of woven cloth, using 2 strands held together while weaving in what's called continuous strand weaving.
20220629_185757.jpg
2 strands of worsted acrylic being worked
2 strands of worsted acrylic being worked
20220624_095556.jpg
Begin planning the garment
Begin planning the garment
20220624_102128.jpg
Planning the garment on paper
Planning the garment on paper
20220622_100749.jpg
Lion brand mandala yarn in the colorway called "Groot"
Lion brand mandala yarn in the colorway called "Groot"
 
Posts: 7
Location: Port Hadlock, United States
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I read a weaving book maybe "sunset" where they cut out cardboard the shape of the shirt slightly bigger than the garment, for shrinkage happens when you weave, and then weave on the shapes. put slits for where the yarn goes to hold it on the frames then assemble the garment after removing it from the cardboard frame.
 
Kim Huse
Posts: 169
19
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Cindy Haskin wrote:I have a peg loom that allows me to change the shape of my woven piece. Conceivably circles or stars.  So I wonder about creating custom shapes in the shape of fabric pattern pieces...? Anybody care to chime in on thoughts whether it's even a thing? I'm afraid I have that loom packed and in the middle of a first try in pastel cotton.

This has been on my mind off and on since I received it as a gift. I think the enclosed literature may have shown this concept, or I picked it up during some online hunt for ideas.

Looking at the heart shape in this article as an example of what I mean by shaped loom, but in the shapes of your pattern pieces. Then sew those together to achieve the item of clothing.   http://crochetisfun-amani.blogspot.com/2013/12/weaving-heart-using-martha-stewart-loom.html?m=1
 

Please tell me I'm not crazy!



You are not crazy; however, that type of loom and another one put out by another company is limited to the pieces that are made for that loom.  What I mean is that you do get long pieces, short pieces, corner pieces, and round pieces, plus 2 different gauges of pegs  that go with it.  

Here are 2  others of the same type of set up:

https://www.knittingboard.com/adjustable-multi-knit-loom/?gclid=CjwKCAjw2f-VBhAsEiwAO4lNeBt9ohGhPFZZ2Kzl6G4noH9X08t0tEojPSIEEoB-qNddR5Ct27PICxoCEUYQAvD_BwE

Feici - Multi-Function Craft Yarn 5000-100 Knitting Board Knit Weave Loom Kit DIY Tool

https://www.michaels.com/build-a-loom-basic-starter-kit-by-loops-and-threads/10668551.html?r=g&cm_mmc=PLASearch-_-google-_-MICH_Shopping_US_N_AllProducts_N_Standard_BOPIS_N-_-&Kenshoo_ida=&kpid=go_cmp-1545032874_adg-60529718524_ad-293389188148_pla-1339141004613_dev-c_ext-_prd-10668551&gclid=CjwKCAjw2f-VBhAsEiwAO4lNeOaD4wWPDlQGLBm2QzPVceVAkQ3-9NxCHb3xTTJUkHlp2DA-MmSHdRoCE2UQAvD_BwE

https://www.hobbylobby.com/Yarn-Needle-Art/Knitting/Knitting-Looms/Adjustable-Rectangle-Loom/p/80818391?gclid=CjwKCAjw2f-VBhAsEiwAO4lNeF9cVcsE2pTdnognr_UiT9rwooiPME9LakZ_ihr1k5ddQE35butArBoC75AQAvD_BwE

Now for different things you can do with these looms:

https://www.pinterest.com/red26101/martha-stewart-loom-knitting/

Youtube also has lots of videos on  knitting looms and  what to make with them.

As for shaping, quite literally, you would  have to take an article of clothing that fits you well, and deconstruct it, then create a loom that matches the shape of each piece of pattern the  garment was made from, and you would have to make it another 10% larger to allow for the  garment piece shrinkage as it comes off the loom, and foir adjustments  and ease of wearing.

There IS a triangle shawl loom :

https://www.goodknitkisses.com/how-to-weave-triangle-loom/

http://www.hillcreekfiberstudio.com/Tri-looms.html

and Noreen Findlay  has a youtube channel to show others how to use these looms to make triangle shawls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRPla0nlN2Q

I also found these: https://www.etsy.com/shop/KETmercantile?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=886549119§ion_id=18589832

and finally, this: https://shaaraf.com/en/2019/02/23/weaving-looms-part-1/

What you have to remember is that rectangular and triangle looms were  made to create  rectangles and  triangles of fabric  because those shapes are still the most efficient use of yarn to create yardage for use for  all the tings we use cloth for, from clothing to rags.  specifically shaped looms for  a person would be expensive, and if  they ever gained or lost weight,  then the  changes would not translate well to the one set of looms they would have created  for just one body size; and for  children, since they grow so quickly, that would be very cost prohibitive.  

Look at the way this garment is created here; its based on the linen bra that was found that shows women did make something bra-like to wear during the middle ages:  http://deventerburgerscap.blogspot.com/2013/04/making-my-bra-shirt-part-ii.html

you can see how  the woven pieces of fabric were used to create  this type of garment and lacing, etc; that allowed for  wear before pregnancy, expansion for pregnancy and then again, decrease when pregnancy was over.  There are several blogs  of costumers who are  doing  some reconstruction on their own; me, I am interested  because  I am looking for a more comfortable bra to wear.  In fact, its a good idea to start looking at costumer and reconstructionists blogs and articles on clothing construction over the eons.


 
Cindy Haskin
pioneer
Posts: 331
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
72
foraging rabbit books fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jay Angler wrote:

Personally, I would mostly stick with what I've been working on - finding patterns that are largely based on rectangles and adapting them to fit me. Learning to use gussets to replace complicated shapes that are integral with single pattern pieces, or simply being prepared to "piece" fabric like they did in the past to make better use of a yard of material. Our current sewing/clothing industry is based on cheap material and cheap labor and has resulted in tremendous pollution and waste. The fact that the OP is at least thinking about that issue and suggesting an alternative, is worthy!



Jay, I think you have the right idea of working with squares and rectangles. Especially when trying to create a denser fabric than what I can get with crochet. (I don't knit. And while I have a couple of knitting looms, I've not yet worked with them.)  
In a SHTF scenario, knowing how to get fibers to become cloth to become clothing is, IMHO, an extremely important skill set. And I've been interested in how this happens since I was probably about 10 and attended my first Renaissance Faire with my mom.
Thank you everyone for the input and ideas.
 
Ew. You guys are ugly with a capital UG. Here, maybe this tiny ad can help:
Learn Permaculture through a little hard work
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic