Looking for thoughts/critique on my lasagna garden plan

Im in the process of putting together some lasagna gardens.  this is my first time doing it from the ground up with cardboard on the bottom and no digging but i have used the similar method of "sheet composting" where im building on top of the old soil/mulch and have incorporated no till methods over the last few years in my gardens that i had previously tilled.  It seems there are lots of different approaches to making a lasagna garden, i did a good bit of reading on it online and i could still be reading on it and am but eventually started building my own im still working on it and have been since october in zone 8b.  

I double layered cardboard with a 6" overlap, put out about a 1" layer of grass clippings, 2-3" of leaves, vegetable scraps/last years garden waste/used coffee grounds etc, 2-3" of leaves, 1" fresh cow manure, 2-3" of leaves, 3" sheep & chicken coop straw, and then ive been repeating the 1" fresh dairy cow manure with 2-3" leaves up to 9 or 10 times in one section of the beds and 3 times in the other section.  I try to wet it down between layers but sometimes i forgot to do it before covering it up with the next layer.

At first i was using a lot of smaller leaves - alder, crab apple, japanese maple etc but around the time i got the cow manure i was mostly getting big leaf maple and pin oak leaves so thought id better start cutting them up to help them break down and keep them from matting up and aid in them breaking down quicker.  I have a riding lawn mower with a mulching blade on it that cut them up real nice but it adds a whole lot more work to the process but i think it will be worth it to try for better success the first season.

The cow manure i used is not organic which i know is not ideal but its what i have access to and can afford.  It comes from a local landscaping and garden supply company that makes a garden mix with it that locals have been using with good results for years so i figured it should be ok.  Im trying to learn how to apply organic practices to my garden and never have used synthetic fertilizers or any kind of chemicals although a lot of the vegetables fruit etc that goes into my compost is not organic but it is what it is i guess.  I would like to have a different or at least more diverse sources of nitrogen rich material than just the cow manure although i am supplementing it with whatever other green scraps and coffee grinds from local shops etc that i can scrounge but it is still mostly the manure (balanced with the leaves) it is $12 a yard though which is nice.

I liked the idea of this method avoiding the extra labor of having to dig up the ground and sift out rocks like ive always done unless building raised beds and it seems like it should ultimately be better for the soil health in the long run so that is great.  Not needing to spend so much time digging has made it possible for me to get a little carried away with a lot of new garden beds.  Ive got 3 new 4x15' beds that are stacked the highest and then a 4'x90'ish bed that straddles either side of a chain link fence.

I wont be planting anything in the lasagna gardens until may so im pretty sure the fresh cow manure will be broke down enough by that point but how long do you think it would be ok to keep adding layers of it?  Id like to get them all 3' tall at least but i got too ambitious with the number of beds so i was thinking id figure out when to stop layering based on when i should stop adding the fresh manure.  My plan is to add at least 6" of soil and finished compost at the top of the beds once i am finished adding layers and that will be
topped with a thick layer of mulch.

Are there any types of plants that would be particularly good for the initial planting of these beds?  Im imagining plants that could possibly aid in loosening up the ground below the cardboard with vigorous root systems or just being well suited to this cow manure heavy mix ive got going.  Or should i just plant whatever?  I was planning on experimenting with most of what im growing already but im kind of approaching this method as not expecting total success the first season (still have other garden space) and am focused on building a good long term soil.  I do plan on learning about getting a cover crop incorporated but think im a little late for that with what im doing now.  Im going to try a bunch of sunflowers in one of the beds and i read a little about them potentially being a plant that could be beneficial to the soil but i need to read more on it.  

What about the use of a clear plastic tarp for laying over the beds to hold in some heat to aid in breaking things down?  I also have several of the bouncy mats from old trampolines i repurposed that could serve a similar function of holding in some heat due to them being black but also being more breathable as opposed to just plastic as i dont have any crazy weeds im trying to smother via solorization etc just thinking if these things might help create an environment for the layers to break down faster.  

Im curious about anyones thoughts or suggestions on my lasagna garden plan or lasagna type gardens in general.  This is my first post here ive just been a lurker but really like the site and appreciate the wealth of information found here.

My mother and I are doing this type of thing in her small garden. Making raised beds by a combination of lasagna stacking and mixing in high-quality bags of soil I found at a discount store.

Layering coffee grounds, straw, her own aged compost, leaves, etc.; and horse manure was put in I think October-ish. We are planning to plant in the Spring, everything from berry bushes to annual fruits, veggies and herbs. Logs from fallen trees are the borders of the beds.

We also got a hugel mound started in a shady-ish place in the late summer, and it's incredible to me how fast that has already been breaking down even though not completely covered with soil yet. You might investigate Hugelkultur too!

Rachel Lindsay wrote:My mother and I are doing this type of thing in her small garden. Making raised beds by a combination of lasagna stacking and mixing in high-quality bags of soil I found at a discount store.

Layering coffee grounds, straw, her own aged compost, leaves, etc.; and horse manure was put in I think October-ish. We are planning to plant in the Spring, everything from berry bushes to annual fruits, veggies and herbs. Logs from fallen trees are the borders of the beds.

We also got a hugel mound started in a shady-ish place in the late summer, and it's incredible to me how fast that has already been breaking down even though not completely covered with soil yet. You might investigate Hugelkultur too!

That sounds like a great garden plan youve got going there!  I think i will investigate hugelkultur a bit more too ive looked into it a little but havent dug too deep, but that does remind me i did throw some semi rotted branch size logs on the first layer here and there (not very dense at all) along with some year old black berry vines.  It has been a lot of work but attempting to learn about and put together this lasagna garden has been a lot of fun for some reason.

It sounds like you're building a great garden there, Jasper. There should be plenty of good nutrition in those beds for plants to grow. I would say it will be particularly good for brassica and potatoes or tomatoes/squash etc. being so rich.

In terms of deeper rooting plants that will penetrate into the soil beneath, the fodder/tillage radish (or Daikon radish for more palatable roots) is supposed to have deep roots. I'm trying them this year on my new 'natural farming' area. That's more of a cool season crop though - plant it late summer and it is supposed to die overwinter leaving deep holes full or organic matter (would it die in zone 8b though?). The other plant that may be worth trying is alfalfa - this is nitrogen fixing and has deep roots. It can be a chop and drop perennial or grown as an annual for fodder/green manure. Maybe others will have more suggestions.

Unless the rocks in your soil are really big I wouldn't bother dig them out. The plants actually seem to like the microclimates they provide. I think if you have topped the beds with compost then you can seed directly into that.

I've never tried a proper lasagne bed, but I did grow courgettes on top of my old compost heap (cold process) without adding extra soil, just a little finished compost in the transplanting hole and they were quite happy.

What about the use of a clear plastic tarp for laying over the beds to hold in some heat to aid in breaking things down?  I also have several of the bouncy mats from old trampolines i repurposed that could serve a similar function of holding in some heat due to them being black but also being more breathable as opposed to just plastic as i dont have any crazy weeds im trying to smother via solorization etc just thinking if these things might help create an environment for the layers to break down faster.  

Sheet composting, lasagna garden, enchilada garden: great approach to building soil! I truly regret ever using plastic or things like landscape cloth that don't decompose and block air flow. When repurposing plastic, I elevate it above the soil and remove it before the rains come. The best gardens here follow the simple brown-green (or green-brown) approach to layering. Cardboard, wood chips, paper, dead trimmings (high carbon stuff) are "browns." Manure, kitchen scraps, grass clippings (high nitrogen stuff) are greens. Simple as that, layer after layer, year after year. When it's time to plant, I like to start with nitrogen fixing legumes (like Nancy's alfalfa suggestion) since "greens" are rare here. When time to plant, use a stick or some kind of improvised dibber to poke through the moist cardboard. Planting nitrogen fixers like fava beans 8 weeks before the last spring frost is a beautiful way to start the garden: greens, little bean pods, fresh beans, dried beans, mulch. A fabulous plant!

Nancy Reading wrote:It sounds like you're building a great garden there, Jasper. There should be plenty of good nutrition in those beds for plants to grow. I would say it will be particularly good for brassica and potatoes or tomatoes/squash etc. being so rich.

In terms of deeper rooting plants that will penetrate into the soil beneath, the fodder/tillage radish (or Daikon radish for more palatable roots) is supposed to have deep roots. I'm trying them this year on my new 'natural farming' area. That's more of a cool season crop though - plant it late summer and it is supposed to die overwinter leaving deep holes full or organic matter (would it die in zone 8b though?). The other plant that may be worth trying is alfalfa - this is nitrogen fixing and has deep roots. It can be a chop and drop perennial or grown as an annual for fodder/green manure. Maybe others will have more suggestions.

Unless the rocks in your soil are really big I wouldn't bother dig them out. The plants actually seem to like the microclimates they provide. I think if you have topped the beds with compost then you can seed directly into that.

I've never tried a proper lasagne bed, but I did grow courgettes on top of my old compost heap (cold process) without adding extra soil, just a little finished compost in the transplanting hole and they were quite happy.

Well that sounds good i do want to grow plenty of tomatoes, brassicas, potatoes and squash like you mentioned.  I do plan on growing daikon radish's as well next time around.  I feel like im too late to get started with a cover crop and was just going to wait til i start with annuals but maybe i should go back to the drawing board on that and eventually i do want to keep roots in the soil year round... i think lol, still trying to figure it all oot.  For my lasagna beds i didnt bother doing any digging at all, all the rocks are still in there i just set the cardboard on top of the grass so i guess i dont know if i have any big ones under there lol but i am excited to see how it turns out.  Thanks for the reply!

Amy Gardener wrote:

What about the use of a clear plastic tarp for laying over the beds to hold in some heat to aid in breaking things down?  I also have several of the bouncy mats from old trampolines i repurposed that could serve a similar function of holding in some heat due to them being black but also being more breathable as opposed to just plastic as i dont have any crazy weeds im trying to smother via solorization etc just thinking if these things might help create an environment for the layers to break down faster.  

Sheet composting, lasagna garden, enchilada garden: great approach to building soil! I truly regret ever using plastic or things like landscape cloth that don't decompose and block air flow. When repurposing plastic, I elevate it above the soil and remove it before the rains come. The best gardens here follow the simple brown-green (or green-brown) approach to layering. Cardboard, wood chips, paper, dead trimmings (high carbon stuff) are "browns." Manure, kitchen scraps, grass clippings (high nitrogen stuff) are greens. Simple as that, layer after layer, year after year. When it's time to plant, I like to start with nitrogen fixing legumes (like Nancy's alfalfa suggestion) since "greens" are rare here. When time to plant, use a stick or some kind of improvised dibber to poke through the moist cardboard. Planting nitrogen fixers like fava beans 8 weeks before the last spring frost is a beautiful way to start the garden: greens, little bean pods, fresh beans, dried beans, mulch. A fabulous plant!

Well that sounds good i do want to build some good soil!  Or encourage nature to do it or whatever :).  So your saying that there is a use for plastic and landscape cloth but that it just needs to be used carefully to not kill of soil life by cutting off oxygen and water i assume?  I definitely dont want to harm the soil life etc by doing that but was just thinking it could be a way to keep the soil temp up a bit during the colder parts of winter.  I still havent done it yet and its been in the teens a few times.  I have several pieces of old take off plastic from large greenhouses ill occasionally use for temporary greenhouses there is plenty of little holes in it for custom breathability :).  How high would you elevate it off the soil, would a few 2" thick branches every few feet or so be good?  Or is it even worth doing considering the negative effects it could have?

I did follow that general brown green layering formula and would have liked to do even thinner layers thinking it would help it break down faster but its kind of tricky eyeballing less than an inch of greens.  I will do some research on nitrogen fixing legumes to start with a variety of those in my lasagna garden beds with plans to chop and drop when switching to other plants.  Thanks for your reply!

I would do the brassicas, tomatoes, and squash Nancy suggests. I'd skip the potatoes, cause I've read they do better in poorer soil. I like planting them straight on sod and building my lasagna bed on top of them. I don't have access to manure most of the time, so my beds are mostly leaves and grass clippings layered with soil and maybe some kitchen scraps if I haven't used them all somewhere else. I'd save my nice, rich gardens for crops that need more care. Maybe you've got enough garden space you don't need to be stingy, though.

I'd also plant leafy greens, cause they taste best when they can shoot up quickly in rich soil. In poor soil, they grow slowly and get more bitter.

Glad to be of help Jasper. Regarding the plastic for moisture retention, I'll just say that I do my best to mulch without plastic. But I do have this image in my head from 5th grade science class. To learn about condensation, we had to go outside, dig a hole, put green stuff in the hole and a little bucket in the middle. We covered that hole with a piece of clear flexible plastic, about 6' x 6'. Around the edge we put a bunch of rocks. Then the teacher put a small stone in the middle that made a sort of sharp depression into the center of the bucket. The next day, the class went back to the hole, removed the sheet of plastic, and - WOW - that bucket was full of water! This was the coolest thing ever! Since that time, I've made lots of little inverted umbrella things around the yard and directed the water toward the compost. So long as I put the plastic away before the rain, I really enjoy replaying this little memory out in the garden. But if I leave that plastic out too long, it crumbles and pollutes my soil. Yes, plastic has a place in my world but I try to reuse, recycle, repurpose wherever possible. Here's a little diagram of something similar to the happy little science project: