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Can I borrow your... NO!

 
r ranson
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Pearl Sutton
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That one made me laugh! My mom threatened us kids with all kinds of horrible things if we touched her sewing scissors. I have spent my adult life threatening anyone who touches mine!
Keep your paws OFF my sewing scissors!! :D
 
K Kaba
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One does NOT mess with the sewing or the hair scissors! :D
 
Anne Miller
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Here is a surefire way to keep someone from using your scissors:


source


Some reasons not to use someone's scissors:


source


source


source


source
 
Kelly Craig
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My tag line elsewhere:  The reason I have what you want is, I never lent it out before.
 
Christopher Shepherd
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This absolutely fits my wife and I.  I have been yelled at more than once for this.  She finally got me my own pair of scissors.  I can't find hers any more!
 
Edward Norton
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In my house FINE often always means NO
 
Skandi Rogers
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You can, but you may not.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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I bought several cheap scissors, so there was at least one (pair) of them in every room. And my fabric-only scissors stayed at the same table as the sewing machine, in my 'crafts room'. This way it always stayed safe. This was one of the lessons my mother taught me
 
Pearl Sutton
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I bought several cheap scissors, so there was at least one (pair) of them in every room. And my fabric-only scissors stayed at the same table as the sewing machine, in my 'crafts room'. This way it always stayed safe. This was one of the lessons my mother taught me



Yup, I do that too. And mark the sewing scissors so it's obvious which ones are not for use.
 
Jerry Sledge
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My (late) wife and I were married for 22+ years and I think it was 10-12 years before I allowed her to use my scissors. She could sew almost anything.
 
Jane Mulberry
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We do what Inge and Pearl do, cheap scissors everwhere and my sewing scissors ALWAYS hidden in my sewing box and never loaned.
All the other scissors invariably end up somewhere in the garden, of course. And the number of times I've been looking for the kitchen food prep scissors (always bright coloured so they won't be confused with the all-purpose scissors) and found hubby using them to snip pooey fur from the bunny's bum...
We have come close to re-enacting Raven's cartoon a few times, and have ended up buying far too many scissors we shouldn't have needed to.
 
Dan Fish
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Woah... after reading that comic I realize how lucky I am to be alive! Too funny.
 
Kelly Craig
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I have a hammer like that out in my shop. My wife doesn't get to use it because, well, she might use it.

SIDE NOTE: Interestingly, it's a Craftsman hammer decades old (holy cow, I bought it new) and I have not been able to find another like it on the Net. It's perfect for detail work, like pounding pins into wood to hold glass in place. I've never found another so comfortable.

If someone else grabbed it, they'd just think it was a small hammer, the would go about pulling a ten penny nail with it, ending it and them.


_____________________________
"[W]e do what Inge and Pearl do, cheap scissors everwhere and my sewing scissors ALWAYS hidden in my sewing box and never loaned."
 
Chris Downey
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I tend to feel the same way about books. If the book is worth borrowing, the author and publisher and bookseller deserve your support in buying it.
 
Tim Dawson-Stanley
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Conflict about misuse of sharp tools can be resolved/dissolved with sharpening/maintenance skills.
tim
 
Thekla McDaniels
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timfromtang Dawson-Stanley wrote:Conflict about misuse of sharp tools can be resolved/dissolved with sharpening/maintenance skills.
tim



🤔 Hmmm, what are you actually saying?  That everyone who doesn’t want to take care of their own tools can use mine, and I can re-sharpen and or repair them, IF I can find them, or replace them if I can’t?

At my house, this is seen as an issue of respect.  And lack of respect, well there’s not much future in that, is there?
 
Cindy Haskin
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All my children and several husbands have been threatened with death and dismemberment if they ever use my fabric scissors for anything but fabric. Plus they would have to buy a new pair to replace what they destroyed! I wore that pair out after 20 years, and replaced them with ones that cut many layers.
 
Jeanne Helfrich
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When my grandmother passed away, I inherited a lot of her sewing stuff - to include her Gingher Dressmaker shears. They were kept in their original box.

Everyone in my household has been told that if they touch those scissors, they will be stabbed with them.
 
Candace Williams
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I was taught as a child that it was important to borrow only as a last resort and to return what I borrowed promptly in as good or better shape than it was when I received it or offer to replace it if I damaged it. Yes, as someone else noted it is a form of respect. Others have the ownership which I should respect. It's a principle worth preserving. Doesn't matter if it's sewing scissors or any other item really. I like the lock on the scissors! Never thought of that but I did lock all the scissors in the house in the trunk of my car once when I had little kids who wouldn't ask and carefully use and return.
 
Jay Angler
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Candace Williams wrote:I was taught as a child that it was important to borrow only as a last resort  

There are pros and cons to that approach. There are some farming communities where buying shared equipment and having specific rules for use and repair of that equipment, is the only way small farmers can survive. I see more of that coming in our future. There are some Indigenous cultures who had very strong "gifting economies", of which sharing is a subset. Many of those cultures lived very rich lives, even if they didn't have cell phones or cars.

Learning to share with respect is a life skill like so many others. Some people seem to learn this from osmosis. Others might need to have all the scissors locked up to get the message. I think it's important for Planet Earth's future for us to learn and teach techniques to live lighter on the land.

Yes, I will share my sewing scissors - right here on the sewing mat on my dining room table, on that lovely cotton/silk/wool fabric that you want to sew.
 
MaryAnne Billups
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timfromtang Dawson-Stanley wrote:Conflict about misuse of sharp tools can be resolved/dissolved with sharpening/maintenance skills.
tim



Buy cheaper scissors for everything else & those can be resharpened & maintained by others!
*My fabric scissors cost me $20!
Will others be willing to pay that amount for another pair of fabric scissors, without saying that they paid for THAT pair, therefore, they get to use those, also?!!
*I bought my fabric scissors, I (& only I), get to use my fabric scissors!
 
Thekla McDaniels
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I dunno why it’s not showing the white colored quote box,

Quoting Jay Angler:  “There are pros and cons to that approach. There are some farming communities where buying shared equipment and having specific rules for use and repair of that equipment, is the only way small farmers can survive. I see more of that coming in our future. There are some Indigenous cultures who had very strong "gifting economies", of which sharing is a subset. Many of those cultures lived very rich lives, even if they didn't have cell phones or cars.

Learning to share with respect is a life skill like so many others. Some people seem to learn this from osmosis. Others might need to have all the scissors locked up to get the message. I think it's important for Planet Earth's future for us to learn and teach techniques to live lighter on the land. ”



I am in total agreement, on the shared use, AND on how differently individuals learn this.

I have friends whose livelihood is a small CSA, farm stand, and for now, a couple farmers’ markets.

First, they borrowed my BCS.  Sped their operation WAY up.  The man is a mechanic.  I’m return, he  did the maintenance on my machines.  When his neighbor wanted to borrow my rotary plough, my friend who by then had his own BCS, said he couldn’t lend what he didn’t own, and bought my plough.  Now he owns it and I borrow it.  He also does the maintenance on my Honda generator.

Our latest is a chipper for the BCSes.  I am buying, because I need it now and they will reimburse me for their half when they can.  It’s working well for us.

By contrast, I had a husband who would use my things without asking and without permission, and when he broke them he was not man enough to admit what he had done, and apologize.  (Antique genuine tortoise shell comb with sterling silver backing, part of my great grandmother’s dresser set).  Kind of silly to deny it when only two people lived in the house.  Only reason I go in to detail here is because some folks can learn BEFORE they make such an error in their thinking, what afterwards they are aggressive and mean about.  Like when they are rude or mean or disrespectful, and cannot bring themselves to own their mistakes and apologize, but bring gifts and deny the gifts have anything to do with their behavior…. Like abusing partners… beat then bring flowers then beat again, and of course it is totally the victim’s fault they got beaten.

So, off topic a little, but very much related to the respect necessary for shared ownership, and equitable sharing of limited resources.  The earth does not have the abundance of resources that would allow everyone to have their own, to ruin at will.  We have a ways to go, but if we discuss it at the level of fabric scissors, we can learn and teach respect at a safe level.
 
Kelly Craig
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Sadly, too many do not understand I have a shop full of tools they want to borrow because I bought them instead of a nicer car, a vacation, a ski trip and so on.

As I said before, "[s]ure, you can borrow my circular saw, can I borrow your skis/pistol/hunting rifle. . . ."?


Candace Williams wrote:I was taught as a child that it was important to borrow only as a last resort and to return what I borrowed promptly in as good or better shape than it was when I received it or offer to replace it if I damaged it. Yes, as someone else noted it is a form of respect. Others have the ownership which I should respect. It's a principle worth preserving. Doesn't matter if it's sewing scissors or any other item really. I like the lock on the scissors! Never thought of that but I did lock all the scissors in the house in the trunk of my car once when I had little kids who wouldn't ask and carefully use and return.

 
Tim Dawson-Stanley
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Thekla McDaniels wrote:

timfromtang Dawson-Stanley wrote:Conflict about misuse of sharp tools can be resolved/dissolved with sharpening/maintenance skills.
tim



🤔 Hmmm, what are you actually saying?  That everyone who doesn’t want to take care of their own tools can use mine, and I can re-sharpen and or repair them, IF I can find them, or replace them if I can’t?

At my house, this is seen as an issue of respect.  And lack of respect, well there’s not much future in that, is there?



I'd say, ownership of tools is not achieved with purchase power or even skill in use alone, maintenance, respect, the zen of sharp, they all have their place. I've had the experience of a borrowed mortice chisel being used to cut a piece of rebar having been borrowed, then returned mangled and without shame or remorse. It turned out, that when shown what the tool was properly used for,how a sharp one performs, and the work required to restore the heavily damage edge described, shame and remorese were indeed demonstrated and remedy offered (NO i did not allow the offender to repair the tool)
tim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rVt6ZLB9Wg
 
John Rynne
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I once heard of a woman who also had a hidden "decoy" good scissors so that even when someone in the house resorted to what they thought was the good scissors, they got the decoy instead
 
Thekla McDaniels
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In a setting where people respect one another, a woman could keep her scissors in full view, in the most  convenient location for her use, and no one would take them.

Why should an individual have to hide something she owns, and probably uses to benefit the whole community/family, not just herself?

Teach the children to respect their mother (and her belongings) and they will grow into respectful adults, knowing and accepting that there are limits to their entitlements, there are personal boundaries. And will not likely grow into partners who make exceptions for themselves in the respect rule when it would be so CONVENIENT for them to use someone else’s tool that is right there… and she should know better than to leave them “out”.

Teaching respect for a person’s tools is a perfect venue for teaching the broader concept of respect.  As is teaching quiet voices in libraries and hospitals.

Wow, isn’t this permaculture value number 2?  Care of people and by extension care of the community?
 
Christopher Shepherd
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Tools tools tools, why must I steal my tools back.  I don't know about you all, but a 17mm deep well is a popular socket to get borrowed.  I lent it out once and it didn't come back.  I couldn't remember who?  I was doing a brake job and needed one, so I bought one while getting pads.  Years later I was asked to help fix a truck and while laying on the ground I looked over and my socket was in his bolt tray!

Same guy different tool.  I lent him my bottle jack my father had got me when I was 16.  A year later I asked him where my jack was?  He didn't know.  One day I was in his garage helping him fix a ball joint on a truck and looked over in the corner and there was my jack.  When we were done fixing his stupid truck I walked over and got the jack.  I asked him where the handle was, of course he didn't know.  To this day I have a jack without a handle.

Another guy needed my 17mm and I gave him the cheap one.  It took 9 months to get it back.  

I am glad my wife got me the high quality deep well impact sockets when we were young.  As many people that have used them they have been through 10 lives. There is almost always one being borrowed.

My ryobi 18v 1/2" impact has been somewhere else for most of its life.

It took almost a year to get a tiller back twice.

My 311 chain saw came back missing the air box screws.

The old pull behind tiller came back with only a half of a rod.  The other half went through the block and got lost in the field.

Many of the borrowers are great though.  Some of them bring things back in a day or two, so it is not all bad.

When I can't find something my wife with her hands on her hips gives me that motherly glare and says" who did you loan it too?"

I need a sign out chart.
Maybe I should start a tool rental service?
 
Jay Angler
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Christopher Shepherd wrote:I need a sign out chart.
Maybe I should start a tool rental service?


Yes and yes!
A friend had a lot of movie CD's and she had a simple sign-out binder for them. I would try to write things on my calendar.

That said, putting one's name and phone number on things can also be a help from the other direction. I'll often ask someone to put their name in a book if they're loaning it - so much as I usually remember who, I don't like to take a chance.  For some reason, books are harder for me to associate with a single human than tools.

Labeling tools can be trickier.  I do have one pair of scissors with my name engraved on them... I have a number of things that I've added my initials to with finger nail polish. Lasts fairly well and has a handy little brush right in the jar. It's also a substitute for lock-tite in a pinch. I think I picked it up cheap at a garage sale, as I certainly didn't buy for use on my nails!
 
Jerry Sledge
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Take a selfie with borrower, lender and item, then send the other person a picture text.
 
Thekla McDaniels
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Quote function being uncooperative, but I wish to comment on the idea of the sign out chart (awesome), and the selfies of tool, borrower and lender (quick easy and won’t get lost)

The question I want to ask those of us on the quality tools in good condition lending side is  “At what point to we say no to the  people who seldom or never return borrowed items without reminders? and maybe not even then!”
 
Jay Angler
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Thekla McDaniels wrote:The question I want to ask those of us on the quality tools in good condition lending side is  “At what point to we say no to the  people who seldom or never return borrowed items without reminders? and maybe not even then!”

That partly depends on the tool, but in the case of my sewing scissors which are really only necessary for cutting out fabric - not trimming threads or such - I would quite seriously insist that they bring the material to me and do the cutting out on my cutting mat.

Another approach might be to say something along the lines of, "sure if I can borrow your "X" until you're done with my "Y" ", and then just make sure it's an "X" they're going to need!

I do think some people have pretty short memories - if 1 or 2 "polite" reminders is all it takes, I'd probably write it on my calendar to rattle their chain, "Have you finished with my "X"?" Mind you, that also works if they haven't forgotten, but are procrastinating on finishing the job which I know *many* people who are capable of!

Ultimately, your only choice may be to exercise the "no" option. You may just have to consider the potential fallout from that and plan ahead with a verbal warning before you get to that point. "If you don't return "X" by May 30, 2022, I won't be willing to lend any more tools to you for a year" sort of thing. This may well be seen as a "punishment" and personally, I hate "forever punishments" or wishy washy end points, so if you don't want it to be forever, pick a date!
 
Kelly Craig
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ONE of the hardest things about being a grown up is, learning we can say "NO" and we are not obliged to explain ourselves.  

Sometimes, we can just laugh, and no reasonable person would think little of us for it. Those who would aren't people we should care about so much we are willing to sacrifice that important part of our life merely to appease them.  Things like one of my bandsaws, cabinet saw, my stationary sanders, dust collectors, carver, four wheel grinder and so on all qualify for the laugh approach.

If they have a big enough project to justify moving a five hundred pound piece of equipment to where they will abuse and neglect it, they can do like I did - buy one.

Take one of my hand sanders. Many would not think anything of it. It they killed it, they might even think a Ryobi they bought for $75.00 would make a good replacement. They'd be dead.........wrong.  I do have inexpensive sanders, and have loaned one or two of those, but, for some sanding jobs, my $600.00 sander with a couple hundred more in accessories will get the job done in record time, and you can almost do it in a tux.  So, "NO, you can't take it out of my shop."

I have pointed out to people, asking me to loan tools to them, I chose my tools instead of vacations, sports equipment, a fancier car and truck and so on.  I can't afford to replace them when they die, because someone else doesn't know how to use them, or made a simple mistake.  

This even with my twelve horse, four thousand PSI pressure washer, or my airless sprayer. They're older than some voters, but I save a hundred dollars a day every five years or so, when I need them. And, I can sell either of them for enough for a very nice weekend somewhere (in other words, it would cost me $100/day to replace them on the short term, or from a half to a whole grand to buy one to keep).

Hell, think about lending your truck. What if some fool, family or other, tries to stack it level to the top of the bed with concrete blocks, for a retaining wall, and drives it the hour home. It might make it, but what condition will the springs and shocks or struts be in?

Consider a friend who is a real estate agent, and handy, for the most part. It is fair t have to pay him/her the full commission, which would have bought tools and equipment, and feel obligated to lend him/her your tools.

As others mentioned, it's a whole different thing with other farmers, woodworkers, auto bodywork people and so on.  If the two of you are, rather than really competing against each other, competing against the world, some loan agreements can benefit both of you. If not one of the two of you today, likely next year, when you need that special piece of equipment the other has.

Of course, some loans just come with the owner. That's just the way it is, and should be. And there may be an operation cost, because you are taking them away from their own work, and asking them to run their business or means of paying for the equipment you both need for free.

SIDE NOTE:

I have gone to Harbor Freight and bough a grinder, then given it to a friend, who asked to borrow my [variable speed] Makita or Milwaukee. I didn't expect it back, and it never came back. However, his friendship was worth more than a twelve dollar grinder. Just not worth a one hundred twenty dollar one.  

Thekla McDaniels wrote:Quote function being uncooperative, but I wish to comment on the idea of the sign out chart (awesome), and the selfies of tool, borrower and lender (quick easy and won’t get lost)

The question I want to ask those of us on the quality tools in good condition lending side is  “At what point to we say no to the  people who seldom or never return borrowed items without reminders? and maybe not even then!”

 
Thekla McDaniels
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Yes yes yes.

I think we need to discuss the justifications for not lending until they are familiar to everyone.

Until everyone understands the difference between punishment and consequences, logical outcomes, as opposed to substituting the word consequence for punishment.

For some, the ability to say no is a learned behavior.  This kind of discussion supports learning that behavior.

 
Christopher Shepherd
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Thank you all for the great ideas.  I have been pondering this borrow thing a bunch.  In my area few people try to fix or do much of anything.  They just pay to have it done.  If I fix someones mower, they will ask me if I can fix their drier or well pump, the list goes on and on.  The handy person is a rarity today.  I will have a hard time telling someone no, when they want to try to do something.  This may be a way to get people more involved with permies.  A little try goes a long way.  

My wife got me an extra calendar to hang in the shop.  All borrowed stuff will now go on it.  I like the take a picture thing too.  I can always send the picture to them for a reminder when I need it back.

Then I started thinking, what if I started buying or fixing these old type tools just to give out.   I am known as a  junkologist and many people give me tools and broken things.  Anybody that wants to try to do something I can try to set them up cost effectivly.  I think with the right tools and a little skill anybody is able to make the world a much better place.

A couple weeks ago my nephew wanted me to weld something up.  He has a poop spreader and it is too big to get to my house to weld.  I was talking with one of my close friends and he mentioned he had a Lincoln 180 that he would sell.  He brought it over and I tested it.  It held a nice and smooth puddle.  He sold it to me for a great price.  I gave it to my nephew for an early graduation present.  I talked to his mom and dad yesterday and they said that he won't leave the welder alone!  He keeps welding things and is getting better.  Now he don't have to borrow one, and he is the only one in his generation that can weld other than my son.
 
Thekla McDaniels
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Sounds great Christopher, are you close by?  I have tools to donate😊

Western  Colorado, might have some available in north eastern California later in the summer.

Better you than H4H, but they’re ok too.

 
Kelly Craig
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I retired as a "handyman." Not just one of those with a set of yellow cordless tools, but with an eighteen hundred square foot shop full of toys, uh, tools. Things like a cabinet saw, enclosed sandblast system, granite working equipment, about ten saws (ranging from a cabinet saw or scroll saw to circular saws), stained glass equipment, a carving machine capable of copying a muzzel loader stock, a copper plating station, airless sprayer, a couple HVLP's, an electronics station and electrical working tools, and so on).

A few relatives mock me because I, often have the cable or screw they need.  But having labeled totes and things, or things hung on a wall where I can find them, makes finding a part to handle a job without driving the hour to town solves many people's problems.  Too, one lady is happy to have her grandmother's unique table operational again, after it fell out of a pickup going down the road [breaking it in two - now, no one knows it was damaged.

There is always a fence, driveway or roof needing pressure washing, a table needing repair, and outlet switched out and so on.  I was NEVER hurting for things to do in the course of feeding myself and my family.  The nice thing was, I was busy enough I was able to turn down things I hated to do, like roofing of any significance (I'd do minor repairs) or concrete work for other than myself.

When I'd do a job, I'd try to educate the customer. I even gave away my trade secrets. A buddy even chastised me for it, but, like I told him, one in a hundred customers MIGHT tackle the job themselves, but most called me back because I did tell them things they needed to know or that would help them.

Consider, for example, painting your house, when you're happy with the color. You do not have to paint the entire house all at once. Where I live, the west end gets beat hardest, so it has to be painted every three to five years. The south end, you could do the next year. The east end could wait several more years and the north could go ten or more. Painting over existing paint is all about both appearance and protection. If the paint looks fine it,  probably is.

Then there is the matter of making a fence look great for years. Stores push modern finishes that turn into major headaches, when the surface coat shrinks and cracks because the wood expands and contracts with, moisture changes at a different rate the wood. After that, the finish looks horrible and has to be stripped.

On the other hand, treatments that rely heavy on oils flex better and will tolerate shifts in the wood better than more rigid protectants. Penetrating finishes will flex

[That table repair:      https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/414806      ]

Christopher Shepherd wrote: [T]he handy person is a rarity today.  I will have a hard time telling someone no, when they want to try to do something.  This may be a way to get people more involved with permies.  A little try goes a long way.  . . .

 
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