Gravel over weedy gravel?

Last year I garnered advice here on what to do about a gravel path, that was laid over weed matting and that, due to high leaf litter, was a perfect home for weeds to propagate.

After much deliberation and trial and error (and endless hand pulling), I bought a flame weeder. That I am sure will work very well, but was not meant to be the only solution to the problem.

I also have an issue of compaction in the gravel; where soil, sub-base sand and gravel have mixed, we have water sitting on the surface in rain events. There is great expense in lifting all the materials and starting again, which I know is the best, but it is also a very expensive solution.

Assuming the flame weeder does a reasonable job at keeping weeds under control I have two follow on thoughts.

1) This is gravel under trees - we essentially live in a forest clearing - so even a full replacement would end up with soil very quickly amongst the gravel. I have had to accept the fact that this is going to get weedy and I will have to deal with that. Assuming the flame weeder does OK there seems little point in going to the great expense of lifting weedy gravel to relay gravel. Even though there is weed matting that is starting to appear through the gravel (it's in very poor shape, ripping and utterly useless), I am wondering if I can cover this up by just adding more gravel. Adding an inch or two would at least make everything tidy for now and my workload is either unchanged or a little better for a year to two. Why go digging for something you do not want to find.

2) that leaves the issue of compaction in the current gravel. This one I do not know what to do about. I could rip through with a mattock, or scrape with a digger but either way what I will end up with is a further mixed set up with soil and sand amongst the gravel. I do not know how much of a concern that should be. If I did this before laying the gravel, is it a terrible idea?

Essentially I cannot afford to completely replace the gravel. So is there anyone who has experienced issues similar to mine that found a way to deal with them? I could live with just having to use the flame weeder a few times a year but the compaction is not going away...

Hi MJ,

I have a couple of questions just to put your situation into context.  Are you talking about a gravel driveway?  Does this gravel path get regular use?  The reason I ask is that I have an approximately 400' long very hard packed gravel driveway that nonetheless grows a nice crop of weeds right between the wheel placement on the driveway in the middle.  Personally this does not bother me as the plant growth helps keep the gravel dust down and the weeds never get very tall or amount to any amount of a nuisance for my purposes.  My thoughts would be to leave the middle-of-the-path plant growth if that is what you have.

If you are talking about weeds growing along the edge, I can see that as being different as those weeds might then grow much taller and interact with other more desirable plants.

So just for my own clarification, do either of these two situations apply?

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Hi MJ,

I have a couple of questions just to put your situation into context.  Are you talking about a gravel driveway?  Does this gravel path get regular use?  The reason I ask is that I have an approximately 400' long very hard packed gravel driveway that nonetheless grows a nice crop of weeds right between the wheel placement on the driveway in the middle.  Personally this does not bother me as the plant growth helps keep the gravel dust down and the weeds never get very tall or amount to any amount of a nuisance for my purposes.  My thoughts would be to leave the middle-of-the-path plant growth if that is what you have.

If you are talking about weeds growing along the edge, I can see that as being different as those weeds might then grow much taller and interact with other more desirable plants.

So just for my own clarification, do either of these two situations apply?

Eric

I should have clarified Eric, apologies. No, this a gravel area right outside the house. Its a little difficult to explain, there are steps involved from the driveway but my previous post on gravel has an image for context. Essentially this area is in theory, our equivalent to a patio/verandah. It has to be gravel (although I would much rather something else) because its right on the house. Its our way in and out from the garden and the driveway - and its the area we most walk on which is where the compaction is. So we have water sitting right outside the door in the rain as well as a few other spots.

MJ,

OK, I have a better picture.  I am envisioning something like a gravel patio and/or sidewalk and in those cases I can see why the weeds would be problematic.

A flame weeder is probably your best defense, at least in the short term.  It will take some work, but eventually you should be able to severely stunt those troublesome weeds back.

Another thought (and just take this for whatever you think it is worth) is to establish something that would be a living barrier.  I had an eccentric neighbor growing up who effectively used crown vetch as a living barrier to weeds.  He controlled it by occasional mowing (actually, I am the one who mowed it).  The vetch was nice and attractive and could be contained with regular mowings and tended to smother everything in its path.  Not everyone is thrilled about crown vetch, but I liked his.

Another crop that could be used is comfrey.  If you can get your hands on some comfrey, plant the plants about 2' apart and stagger 2 rows about 3' apart.  This should give you a nice bumper crop of comfrey that you can use in your garden (or other purposes too, comfrey is a really useful plant) and comfrey also tends to smother everything in its path, yet stay contained to its own little zone.  I grow 6 comfrey plants in wood chips and while the comfrey took a couple of years to establish, today they are bountiful plants.  They are planted in pairs and nothing grows under their leaves or in between the plants for want of sunlight.  Mine are already about 4' tall this spring!

These are just a couple of options.  Take them or leave them.  Or combine them with something else like the flame weeder, a tool I really like (I want one!).

Please let me know if I have the situation summed up about right and if these seem like reasonable options to you.

Eric

The driveway where I work is gravel, and it gets plowed in the winter. This means that the gravel gets “rearranged” each year, and areas of puddles appear in the spring. So, the gravel that the plow moved gets replaced in the puddles. It’s also a tricky spot in the corner of a large building with a shed-style garage alongside. Three lanes wide and two cars deep near the building, one car deep in the farthest lane. A LOT of water falls off the roof and the slope of the driveway is quite shallow, almost flat, so grading matters... the town repaved the road and things got worse, since the road was higher by just an inch or two. We added a dry well and perforated drains to control water near the building and added gravel to adjust the grade to once again drain towards the street.

In your compacted, puddling areas I think more gravel would help, just enough to eliminate the low places.

You then could tackle the remaining area, as you have time, removing the gravel and fabric, screening out the weeds and soil, and returning the clean gravel. I’d make sure your slope is correct and that you don’t accidentally create low spots or reverse the dlope towards the building.

Eric Hanson wrote:MJ,

OK, I have a better picture.  I am envisioning something like a gravel patio and/or sidewalk and in those cases I can see why the weeds would be problematic.

A flame weeder is probably your best defense, at least in the short term.  It will take some work, but eventually you should be able to severely stunt those troublesome weeds back.

Another thought (and just take this for whatever you think it is worth) is to establish something that would be a living barrier.  I had an eccentric neighbor growing up who effectively used crown vetch as a living barrier to weeds.  He controlled it by occasional mowing (actually, I am the one who mowed it).  The vetch was nice and attractive and could be contained with regular mowings and tended to smother everything in its path.  Not everyone is thrilled about crown vetch, but I liked his.

Another crop that could be used is comfrey.  If you can get your hands on some comfrey, plant the plants about 2' apart and stagger 2 rows about 3' apart.  This should give you a nice bumper crop of comfrey that you can use in your garden (or other purposes too, comfrey is a really useful plant) and comfrey also tends to smother everything in its path, yet stay contained to its own little zone.  I grow 6 comfrey plants in wood chips and while the comfrey took a couple of years to establish, today they are bountiful plants.  They are planted in pairs and nothing grows under their leaves or in between the plants for want of sunlight.  Mine are already about 4' tall this spring!

These are just a couple of options.  Take them or leave them.  Or combine them with something else like the flame weeder, a tool I really like (I want one!).

Please let me know if I have the situation summed up about right and if these seem like reasonable options to you.

Eric

Thanks Eric.

Living barrier is an interesting idea, and I do like the idea of using the space for more than just a surface outside the house. I think around the perimeter could be workable - this is where the leaves and other tree debris end up congregating anyway and as such, is prolific with the weeds. The middle though, the flame weeder is my last resort.

Kenneth Elwell wrote:The driveway where I work is gravel, and it gets plowed in the winter. This means that the gravel gets “rearranged” each year, and areas of puddles appear in the spring. So, the gravel that the plow moved gets replaced in the puddles. It’s also a tricky spot in the corner of a large building with a shed-style garage alongside. Three lanes wide and two cars deep near the building, one car deep in the farthest lane. A LOT of water falls off the roof and the slope of the driveway is quite shallow, almost flat, so grading matters... the town repaved the road and things got worse, since the road was higher by just an inch or two. We added a dry well and perforated drains to control water near the building and added gravel to adjust the grade to once again drain towards the street.

In your compacted, puddling areas I think more gravel would help, just enough to eliminate the low places.

You then could tackle the remaining area, as you have time, removing the gravel and fabric, screening out the weeds and soil, and returning the clean gravel. I’d make sure your slope is correct and that you don’t accidentally create low spots or reverse the dlope towards the building.

Interesting, thanks. So all the gravel and whatever else is in it gets roughed and mixed up? The compaction issue is a problem for us in winter, but I cannot fathom whether breaking up the compaction (assume its sand and soil) will just make things worse. Adding gravel is my current plan, but I only have an inch max before I reach the top of a step into the house, so not lots of room to just lose the problem beneath more material.