Tyler Ludens wrote:Do you ever get tired of debating? I do.
Sometimes I just want to be able to share my opinion or personal experience without it being debated.
Burra Maluca wrote:I'd just like to remind everyone that permies.com is NOT a site for debating, it's for discussion. We will moderate hard to ensure that discussion doesn't sink to debate.
The goal of debate
Simply stated, the object of any true debate is to win; to achieve victory for your side and inflict defeat on the other. Debate is a zero-sum game: In order for you to win, your opponent has to lose. Debate has that in common with war. As a result, debate is deeply anti-intellectual.
The object of discussion
The goal of an ideal discussion, as I’m defining it here, is to learn (and to teach, which is a form of learning). Unlike debate, it’s not zero-sum, rather it’s win-win. Discussion is like market exchange insofar as each side does it for mutual gain.
Wes Hunter wrote:...getting to know how a person 'speaks' in this forum, being able to at least partially estimate tone and intention. And part of it is being able to gather from the context of the entire post/conversation just what exactly a person is saying.
Travis Johnson wrote:Sometimes it is all about perspective.
Last week there was a topic regarding livestock guard dogs, and the topic could have turned into a Burra-described debate because of that reason alone. It basically was about if it was worth it to get two livestock guard dogs for only a few animals to protect.
In the end I realized I WAS OUT OF LINE because I am a full time farmer that uses permiculture techniques as my only income stream. But in this case it was regarding what amounts to hobby farming and really what I was saying, what my perspective was; did not line up well. In some ways I feel obligated to explain things from my perspective so that any lurkers might learn, or regulator contributors who want to someday take their farms to full-time status can have a better understanding of the mind-set that it will take to get there; but in this case it was about hobby farm type decisions.
No moderators ever got involved, and the other person is someone I admire and respect, and if I could would buy him a coffee, a bag of dog food for his livestock guard dog,and help around his place for a week if I could. The guy is a just a great guy. We just have different perspectives,and sometimes that can spark debate. The key is too look at that perspective and see if it might be out of line.
r ranson wrote: you guys at permies rock!
There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza, a hole in the bucket, dear liza, a tiny ad:
we are getting a new electric bicycle! Help us pick out which one!https://permies.com/t/172255/permaculture-projects/electric-bicycle-pick