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what is a really good email service?

 
steward
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Currently, msn and hotmail are not working with my richsoil.com email.  This has been an on and off thing for several years.  And it has come to my attention that a lot of valid email is being rejected by msn, hotmail and other email servers using similar backend stuff.   So we are going to implement stuff to let people know that these email services are broken and, eventually, permies will no longer accept msn or hotmail email addresses.   And any existing permies accounts with msn or hotmail email addresses will have their email address invalidated, which automatically makes it so the user cannot post until they get their email address sorted out.

So, what are some really good email services today?

https://protonmail.com/

 
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I use dreamhost to host my own domain, which comes with an email service with several addresses and tons of storage. I've been using their service for a long time, and I would highly recommend them. I use thunderbird as the email client to interface with my personal email hosted at dreamhost, a few gmail addresses, and my work email. This allows me to interface with all of my email accounts in one place, and it stores the emails locally on my machine, backed up and encrypted.

If you're not paying for the product you are the product.
 
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gmail works very well - if you're willing to let them read your email.

Apple device owners can use their icloud accounts, which also works well.  Its part of the price of an Apple product, so its ad free.  Apple users can also use the new Sign In with Apple that generates anonymous email addresses ... but with both of those you are captive to keeping an Apple device so not for everyone....

ProtonMail does have a free option, as well as paid ones with higher levels of service/features.
 
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I use the free version of ProtonMail. It works great for me. I have religated me gmail account to my "almost trash " address
 
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Yes proton mail.
 
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I tried the free proton mail but I couldn't find a way to import contacts to it.  I'm not going to type 250 addresses into it and I'm too cheap to pay for it if I'm not sure I'll like it.  So I'm back to yahoo which is a 6 out of 10 for me.
 
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I have been using yahoo since about 1995 more or less.  I have several accounts with them.  As long as I use Basic Yahoo I am very happy.  I have no reason to have a paid account.
 
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I use Gmail for my "stupid stuff" email and Proton Mail (the free option) for my "real" email. I have had my Gmail account for too long to delete it without huge headaches, otherwise I would. Google sucks. Proton Mail baby!!!
 
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Proton all the way. Pony up a few bucks a month for full service while you’re at it. Totally worth it.

I’ll be so happy when Google is finally extinct.
 
Joseph Bataille
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Mike Haasl wrote:I tried the free proton mail but I couldn't find a way to import contacts to it.



I don’t know if it’s for paid subscribers only but ProtonMail has a new import feature for contacts and whole emails from your other email accounts.
 
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I am extremely pleased with Fastmail, they have a very reliable and professional service.  Plans range from $30-80/year depending on features and storage.  They don't offer any free options (other than a trial) but that seems right to me, especially considering the quality of the service.  

In case you're interested in a 10% off coupon for it, here's my referral link.  
 
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I use gmx for years
 
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I just found out that my email server has put a block on Amazon.  
For two years, they had a block on anything with a zoom link - but apparently, that stopped last year march.

This is so frustrating.  Is there nowhere to get an email that doesn't filter spam when I tell it to not filter spam?  

 
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I have  a hotmail address and have been getting notices from permies.
So soon I can only read the posts but not contribute?
 
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Protonmail is good.

Stuff like gmail and other "free" can and will harvest all of your mail and contacts and do absolutely whatever they want with them forever. If you try to read the TOS you have agree to it is very scary.
 
paul wheaton
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craig howard wrote: I have  a hotmail address and have been getting notices from permies.
So soon I can only read the posts but not contribute?



FYI - if i send email to anybody with a hotmail, msn, or any email server with ms involved, account, it gets bounced.  It does not go to your spam - it is bounced with a message about permanent failure.  And when our email experts jump through all the hoops with ms to fix it, we discover that their fix stuff is broken.  This is not the permies server, but my richsoil email account.    So, i think it is just a matter of time until permies is rejected and thousands of other legit domains are also rejected.  

So the question is:  do you want to use an email service that blocks 20% of your legit email?  

 
r ranson
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paul wheaton wrote:
So the question is:  do you want to use an email service that blocks 20% of your legit email?  



I think there's some money to be made here - if someone comes up with a bare-bones, without any bells, whistles, AI, or whatever.  A bit like linux is for computers, this would be for emails.  Nothing but over-simple webmail and POP/SMPT system in place so we can use our email software.

If you want anything like file folders, spam filters, more than basic storage, IMAP, it costs money.  But basic email free that actually works... that would be enough to encourage me to buy some of the addons.  

4 hours of my life yesterday fixing the issue that is blocking all amazon emails.  I know they are blocking some other big companies.  It's a pay for service and has a monopoly on some services because no one else is big enough to build the infostructure.    But I don't want to move my email to another service if they are going to play the same games.  I just want all my emails - I know enough to not click email links.  
 
paul wheaton
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My guess is the #1 email service for security and reliability is protonmail.  I've never used it, but I have heard nothing but good things.   They do email the way you expect email to be done.  
 
r ranson
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I'm already paying for more than one email address.

Things to find out
- is protonmail free?
- does it POP?
- is it easy enough an idiot like me can figure it out?
- is it going to last?

I guess the thing to do is to try it and see.  
 
r ranson
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It looks like the free account at protonmail is easy to set up.  Pretty basic.

I cannot see how to use a POP/SMTP to make it talk to outlook, so it's not going to be a good match for me.

I can IMAP if I pay money, but I don't like IMAP.
 
paul wheaton
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IMAP is far more secure than POP.  

How much do they want for the IMAP stuff?
 
r ranson
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paul wheaton wrote:How much do they want for the IMAP stuff?



payments start at USD$5 per month (or less if you sign up for a year or two at a time)

The different levels are a bit confusing to me, but I think the IMAP thing happens at the lowest paying level.  But you have to install additional software for it to work with something like Outlook as it has to teach outlook the encryption somehow?  

This is where I got that info, but it's short so I had to interpret some of it.  https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/imap-smtp-and-pop3-setup/
 
paul wheaton
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Outlook is shit.   Maybe you should explore replacing outlook.
 
r ranson
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paul wheaton wrote:Outlook is shit.   Maybe you should explore replacing outlook.



Yeh, it's not great.  But it's free with MS office and all the other free ones I've tried don't work with my brain.  

It's pretty crap at IMAP, that's one of the reasons why I don't enjoy IMAP.  
 
paul wheaton
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I haven't used an email reader (like outlook or thunderbird) in years.  I just use the web interface.
 
r ranson
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paul wheaton wrote:I haven't used an email reader (like outlook or thunderbird) in years.  I just use the web interface.



I've had too much go wrong with the web interface from various email services over the years.  For me, I need copies of things stored on my computer and computer backup as well as the server.  But that's my style.  I'm also the kind of person who matched well with DOS.  

I miss DOS.  
 
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I really can't fault fastmail.com


Back in 2016 I did a lot of research into email options and of the 10 possibilities I looked at, fastmail was the stand-out best.  It is a paid service but really well worth it. There was no credible free option that came close.  

It's reliable, scalable (personal and business), loads fast on a relatively slow computer and and has a nice clean interface.  

The help desk is all email, no calls, but very responsive and helpful.  It is simple to set up aliases, it has a good calendar and you get a discount code give your friends if they sign up.  

Its webmail, POP 3 and IMAP4.  


It is also a really ethical company and has a lot of open source projects if you know your way around a computer.


They say "you are our customer not our product" which I really like.  

It is really cost effective if you choose the lowest tier and also if you pay 2 or 3 years at once.  I am on the middle tier which costs me less than $5 a month and would definitely be adequate for a small business although I just use it for personal stuff right now. It is based out of Australia but payments are all in USD - by paypal, ccard etc.  


I have used it since 2016 and still find it excellent.  

They have a free account to try it out for a month too so nothing to lose..


Paul, I don't think permies is the only online presence having problems with hotmail etc.

 
 
craig howard
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paul wheaton wrote:

craig howard wrote: I have  a hotmail address and have been getting notices from permies.
So soon I can only read the posts but not contribute?



FYI - if i send email to anybody with a hotmail, msn, or any email server with ms involved, account, it gets bounced.  It does not go to your spam - it is bounced with a message about permanent failure.  And when our email experts jump through all the hoops with ms to fix it, we discover that their fix stuff is broken.  This is not the permies server, but my richsoil email account.    So, i think it is just a matter of time until permies is rejected and thousands of other legit domains are also rejected.  

So the question is:  do you want to use an email service that blocks 20% of your legit email?  



I have had a problem getting an email  from someone.
But overall it works great.
The emails I get from permies tell me if someone has added to a topic I posted on.
Or if I got pie.
Most of the forums  go to let me know that stuff when I log into the forum.
SO it seems like a strange reason to keep me from posting.
So the question for me is still:
So soon I can only read the posts but not contribute?
 
paul wheaton
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If permies stops working with ms email stuff, then all accounts with those emails will be required to use a different email - something that works.  

And from what I have heard, it seems like ms stuff is already not working with a lot of stuff.  

So, again, the question is:  do you want to use an email service that blocks 20% of your legit email?
 
r ranson
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I don't know the future yet, but I suspect one thing that would be a big help is if you put the permies emails in your friend or I like this person list.  If enough people do this, then it is less likely to be blocked by your server and we won't have to worry about blocking accounts with those emails.  
 
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At one job I had we were having issues with important messages being filtered out as spam, sometimes not even going into our spam folders. I had a conversation with the IT guy who is REALLY good at his job. He told me that if there were zero spam filters anywhere along the way, I would receive something like 3000 spam emails for every email I actually wanted to receive. Ever since then I've had a different level of appreciation for spam filters, even though there are obviously still some issues.
 
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whoa good thing i clicked on this thread
i have a hotmail account and i get the weeklyish and new posting notifications etc
i am currently locked out of my gmail even though it is the same computer i set the account up on

when i move i figured it would cause problems with logging in and was preparing to give it up anyways

looks like i will not be able to post soon
probably a good thing most times i should just keep it to myself
 
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Anne Miller wrote:I have been using yahoo since about 1995 more or less.  I have several accounts with them.  As long as I use Basic Yahoo I am very happy.  I have no reason to have a paid account.



I would stay away from Yahoo especially since the 2016 breach that affected ALL users leaking passwords and security questions.

I don't know if you can still apply for a claim but if you have had a Yahoo account between 2012 and 2016 and live in the US the class action lawsuit can claim you a chunk of the $117.5 million breach settlement which could be up to $25,000.
 
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r ranson wrote:

I miss DOS.  



Oh yeah!  DOS fan here too.  There was nothing so relaxing as the C:\> prompt.  Back then, I knew what I was doing, and the computer actually let me do stuff.

Free ATTRIB!  Free XCOPY!

 
paul wheaton
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(cough)

 
Anne Miller
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T Simpson wrote:

Anne Miller wrote:I have been using yahoo since about 1995 more or less.  I have several accounts with them.  As long as I use Basic Yahoo I am very happy.  I have no reason to have a paid account.



I would stay away from Yahoo especially since the 2016 breach that affected ALL users leaking passwords and security questions.

I don't know if you can still apply for a claim but if you have had a Yahoo account between 2012 and 2016 and live in the US the class action lawsuit can claim you a chunk of the $117.5 million breach settlement which could be up to $25,000.



I am happy to say again that I am really happy with Yahoo.

I do not have a reason to stay away from yahoo.  I don't see how the 2016 breach affected any of my 5 email accounts. If it had I am positive I would know since 5 or 6 years have passed.

I don't really believe in class action suits since I have never gotten more than a couple of dollars from the 1 or 2 that I got involved with. The lawyers are the ones making the money and encouraging folks to join the suit.

I certainly recommend Yahoo over hotmail any day!
 
r ranson
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That's interesting.

I stopped using yahoo years back when they started filtering out my emails.  They wouldn't let through emails from my school at the time, most of the websites I visited... all sorts of places.  I was getting maybe one out of ever 10 emails being sent.  not cool.

I remember a time when there were 100+ spam per every good email.  I miss the days when the email client trusted us enough to sort through our own spam.  
 
paul wheaton
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We keep getting notifications from yahoo that people have reported us as spam - only we talk to those people and they say "no i didn't".  Some of those people are on staff and insist that they never marked any of our stuff as spam.

For $40, any yahoo email account can be hacked.  Which is why nearly all the emails from friends saying "help me, i'm stuck in mexico - wire me monies" comes from yahoo accounts.
 
T Simpson
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Anne Miller wrote:

T Simpson wrote:

Anne Miller wrote:I have been using yahoo since about 1995 more or less.  I have several accounts with them.  As long as I use Basic Yahoo I am very happy.  I have no reason to have a paid account.



I do not have a reason to stay away from yahoo.  I don't see how the 2016 breach affected any of my 5 email accounts. If it had I am positive I would know since 5 or 6 years have passed.



The thing is hackers likely got the hash tables for all the user's password and security question data. That is Yahoo's fault for not securing the data.

When hackers have the hash tables that can then brute force through trial and error find out what password corresponds to what encrypted hash on modern GPUs over 2 MILLION potential passwords can be tested every second. (if you password has a word/name/1234 even more likely to be tested for algorithmically).

Once the hackers find the password that correlates to the hash they can then begin checking it against email addresses (which in this case they have).

Then once the hackers gain access to an email account they can sell that information to thief's that will use the access to your email account to gain access to your other accounts (banks, social media etc.) . If you share passwords between online accounts it is worse since the hackers also likely sold your passwords as well.

IF you had 12 character long passwords containing no words with a mix of letters, numbers and symbols THEN it is likely the hash stolen from yahoo has not been cracked and you are fine (although you should change your passwords since it is a matter of time).

This is one of the biggest cyber attacks in history, I recommend taking it seriously. Maybe you are not affected yet or maybe you are. It is a matter of time.

 

 
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paul wheaton wrote:If permies stops working with ms email stuff, then all accounts with those emails will be required to use a different email - something that works.  

And from what I have heard, it seems like ms stuff is already not working with a lot of stuff.  

So, again, the question is:  do you want to use an email service that blocks 20% of your legit email?



That question was already answered.
I'm fine with my hotmail email account.
Though I don't concider emails from permies to be not legit,.. they serve no purpose for me.
It's info I could be getting when I log into permies.

It looks like my real question was answered too.
 
 That I will no longer be able to contribute until you can send me emails.
What's the deadline?
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