• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Mike Haasl
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Dave Burton
  • Joseph Lofthouse
master gardeners:
  • jordan barton
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Ash Jackson
  • Kate Downham

Nonnegotiables

 
gardener
Posts: 1788
Location: southern Illinois.
411
composting toilet food preservation homestead
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
In counseling/behavioral circles there is an old term referred to as "Nonnegotiables".  Those are the normally little routines we have in life that makes life normal for us.  And, while they may be of critical importance to the individual,  they may be invisible to others.  Examples might be reading the Sunday Newspaper, having a glass of bourbon in the evening, or a shower in the am  (vs pm).

My primary  nonnegotiable is having 2 cups of coffee in the morning.  What is your nonnegotiable?
 
pollinator
Posts: 405
Location: Vermont, USA
108
hugelkultur dog forest garden fungi foraging books chicken cooking medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sleeping with the windows open until it becomes extremely cold, well into winter.  
 
master steward & author
Posts: 20678
Location: Left Coast Canada
5767
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cave time - in excess of normal.
Coffee - first thing.
Darkness during sleep hours.
 
gardener
Posts: 1789
639
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Bedtime routine with John: feed the fish, snuggle up & watch them, while we talk about our day, or plans for the next one, or life in general, or what color the stars really are... Then shut off the lights, snuggle up for a few more minutes, kiss goodnight, and go to sleep. When we must be apart at night, we still curl up in our respective beds, and talk on video chat.

Morning coffee, after I let the chickens out, to freerange, and walk Charlie.
 
pollinator
Posts: 1338
Location: Denmark 57N
378
fungi foraging trees cooking food preservation
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've found watching my family that people develop these habits as they age, so it's something I associate with getting old and inflexible and any time I think I might be developing something like that I deliberately stop it. I don't drink caffeine in the morning after I found I was having to have it to feel "Normal" the only thing I can think of is hubbs and I say "I love you" in silly voices at night when he tucks me in, (I almost always go to bed first) but it's not something that has to be done, we don't do it by phone or text if one of us is away.
 
pollinator
Posts: 2396
Location: Zone 5 Wyoming
357
kids duck forest garden chicken pig bee greening the desert homestead
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Dinner at the table as a family.
 
pollinator
Posts: 171
Location: Northwest Missouri
63
forest garden fungi gear trees plumbing chicken cooking ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
20 minute nap after work. My brain needs the reset button. Some are jealous of my ability to power nap, but don't realize it's also a bit of a burden. Because if I don't get it, I do not function well.  
 
Posts: 43
Location: Seattle burbs
20
hugelkultur forest garden foraging food preservation cooking
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A walk through the garden first thing in the morning, often with coffee in hand. The weather has to be pretty foul for me to forgo this, and then I'll feel off all day.

And then at least two hours of reading every night. We don't watch television at our house, but I can't sleep without my nightly down time.
 
pollinator
Posts: 321
114
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Planting a garden.
Cooking my own meal a few times a week at a minimum.
A few hours of quiet solitude per day.


There are more things, but because of my current living situation I'm being forced to go without a lot of my "nonnegotiables". It's slowly driving me nuts! I can't even cook for myself because everybody wants to use the kitchen first.
 
gardener
Posts: 3111
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio,Price Hill 45205
340
forest garden trees urban
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Days where I don't make, cook, cultivate or clean are generally days I go to bed sad.
My current occupation involves little that scratches that itch, so when I get home,  I usually change into my "play clothes " and go DO something!
Even if it's just sorting screws in the shed,  it feedse in. A way shuffling paperwork never will.

When I have spent the day attending parties or some such nonsense, my wife will remind me that the memories I have made with and for my friends and family count as the best kind of making.
My gut disagrees but it's not (entirety) in charge, so I've decided she is correct.
I still prefer celebrations where I'm cooking and cleaning, or better still building and planting.
My family knows that the best way to get me to make time to hang out is to request help with something...


 
John F Dean
gardener
Posts: 1788
Location: southern Illinois.
411
composting toilet food preservation homestead
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
To give a little background,  one of the things that really ticks me off about nursing homes in this country is their lack of awareness of nonnegotiables ...and many other things.  If a person gets out of bed at 4:00 am wanting a cup of coffee that person will not get a cup of coffee. They will get a sleeping pill at 8:00 pm.  If a person seeks alone time instead of going on an outing, they will get an antidepressant. In most LTC organizations I have seen, there is minimal room for individualism.
 
pollinator
Posts: 1379
Location: Bendigo , Australia
88
dog gear plumbing earthworks bee building homestead
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Suggest something be got rid of.
Try and tell me motorcycles are dangerous.
Ask me to have coffee in a takeaway cup and drink it in a car!!! I like to sit and have coffee. Its like a 'stop light" for my body and brain.
 
pollinator
Posts: 359
Location: Monticello Florida zone 8a
108
homeschooling hugelkultur monies foraging wofati building wood heat homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Barefoot.
 
Posts: 315
Location: North Coast Dominican Republic
11
forest garden trees tiny house
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Unless I am in a workplace that requires full length trousers, I wear short shorts. Do not try to cajole me into wearing longer ones.

If it is cold enough in the house that I have to "put on more layers," it's too cold.
Craigslist-Pride.jpg
My uniform
My uniform
 
Posts: 112
Location: Dry mountains Eastern WA
22
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
As I age I find many of my friends are full of non negotiables.  Not for me.
 
gardener
Posts: 494
Location: Western Kentucky
183
dog gear foraging trees hunting food preservation cooking fiber arts woodworking wood heat rocket stoves
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Staying away from people who cultivate drama.
 
Posts: 99
Location: 10 miles NW of Helena Montana
15
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Coffee while I let the chickens out.
 
pollinator
Posts: 2083
Location: 4b
498
dog forest garden trees bee building
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Not so much a routine, but still a non-negotiable.  I will always have a dog.  I could not be in a relationship with someone that said I couldn't have one, or didn't like them.  100% non-negotiable.
 
Posts: 46
Location: western NY (Erie County), USA; zone 5b/6a. Can't exactly tell where the boundary line is.
22
hugelkultur monies cat forest garden tiny house books wofati bike medical herbs writing ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Two mugs of coffee and about 90 minutes of solitude (prayer/meditation) in the morning and one coffee and 30 minutes of quiet time in the evening.
 
John F Dean
gardener
Posts: 1788
Location: southern Illinois.
411
composting toilet food preservation homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Paul,

I have the need for two cups of coffee as well. Odd, in that one large cup does not work.  It has to be two cups.
 
pollinator
Posts: 104
Location: Kitsap Penninsula, WA
55
duck books chicken food preservation cooking wood heat
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I wear a necklace every day that has my daughter's birth constellation engraved on it in a little disc (She is a pisces). If I forget to put it on, I feel horribly disconnected from her. I know it's all in my head, but there you go. What can I say. Put it on when she was 3 months old and every day thereafter. When I die, after my body is composted, I told my Husband to throw the remains in a hole, put the necklace in there with them and plant a blueberry on top of me.
 
John F Dean
gardener
Posts: 1788
Location: southern Illinois.
411
composting toilet food preservation homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Trace,

I can see  where a dog could be a nonnegotiable.   It is certainly the kind of thing that an outsider might underestimate its importance to you.
 
Paul Sofranko
Posts: 46
Location: western NY (Erie County), USA; zone 5b/6a. Can't exactly tell where the boundary line is.
22
hugelkultur monies cat forest garden tiny house books wofati bike medical herbs writing ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

John F Dean wrote:Hi Paul,

I have the need for two cups of coffee as well. Odd, in that one large cup does not work.  It has to be two cups.



I didn't mention that I have a wide assortment of mugs and I spend up to a minute or two determining which one to use for that day. It's symbolic. For example, I'm Catholic and keep to the old rules regarding meatless Fridays. So, my Friday mug has to be either the one with seafood on it, or, if that one is unavailable, my Mr. Spock (from Star Trek) mug. (He was a vegetarian.)  For Sundays it has to be something religious. For middle-of-the-week it has to be something like one of the smiley mugs (past the ’hump day.”) Saturdays is a free form day (anything goes.)

My wife just gives me that look. (The "You nuts” one.)
 
Carla Burke
gardener
Posts: 1789
639
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Lindsey Jane wrote:I wear a necklace every day that has my daughter's birth constellation engraved on it in a little disc (She is a pisces). If I forget to put it on, I feel horribly disconnected from her. I know it's all in my head, but there you go. What can I say. Put it on when she was 3 months old and every day thereafter. When I die, after my body is composted, I told my Husband to throw the remains in a hole, put the necklace in there with them and plant a blueberry on top of me.



This is SUCH a thing! John bought me a necklace, when my dad died. It's a small, sterling, heart shaped micro-urn, with my dad's birthstone and a tiny bit of his ashes. I don't take it off. About a year ago, he added my patron saint medallion. That chain might as well be part of my flesh.
 
John F Dean
gardener
Posts: 1788
Location: southern Illinois.
411
composting toilet food preservation homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Paul,

I am not fussy as to which cup, but it does have to be 2 cups.  In other words, two 6oz cups are more acceptable than one 16oz cup.  I actually feel cheated with the larger cup. Sort of offering a child the choice between three 1 dollar bills or one 20 dollar bill.
 
pollinator
Posts: 1565
Location: RRV of da Nort
253
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Paul Sofranko wrote:Two mugs of coffee and about 90 minutes of solitude (prayer/meditation) in the morning and one coffee and 30 minutes of quiet time in the evening.



Wow....yeah...just chiming in on this one.  Why two cups??!..... I have no reasonable answer, but it's the first cup immediately after rising, then the second cup before noon.  After that,....a possible third cup is negotiable.  Ditto with the meditation/down time.
 
pollinator
Posts: 362
Location: OK High Plains Prairie, 23" rain avg
65
homestead
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
What a fascinating thread for peeking into people's lives. I also peruse others grocery carts, bookshelves, and houses at night when the lights are on and curtains are open.
I had to give up my morning tea , even decaf, due to caffeine sensitivity. In my Scotch-Irish-American family for three generations and probably many many more, tea with milk and sugar was always the morning beverage. Quitting was an emotional process which required deeply noticing the thoughts, emotions, and physical sensations associated with my habit. Now I can be happy smelling someone else's tea. Or not.
 
John F Dean
gardener
Posts: 1788
Location: southern Illinois.
411
composting toilet food preservation homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Denise

Coffee and tea aside, what are your personal quirks that make your day complete?
 
denise ra
pollinator
Posts: 362
Location: OK High Plains Prairie, 23" rain avg
65
homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John F Dean, drinking water daily seems to be my only non-negotiable.
 
Posts: 11
5
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Im off grid, using a septic, miles from others, in covid lock down and curfews.
Sh_t has gotten real for me;

Food security is a non negotiable thing. We literally had empty stores. its improved now. But im not wanting to be so dependant again, asap

My and my families safety and PPE was my non negotiable, and I resigned last week as a front line nurse because of the risks we are asked to take, daily. The lies got to me. "you are perfectly safe and do not require PPE" "More masks arrive next week" when you never got any previously. New policies gallore! insisting you use hand sanitiser, that is nowhere to be seen.  So safety is non negotiable. I dont want to bring back covid to my family.

Loving and caring for my family, and seeing them, touching them, smelling them, hearing them. Its been six months! I have missed my grandaughters crawling AND walking firsts. I have a grandson ive seen twice in 6 months.


 
John F Dean
gardener
Posts: 1788
Location: southern Illinois.
411
composting toilet food preservation homestead
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
As an RN, I am sure you and I could exchange war stories for an eternity. Suffice it to say, I dont blame you.
 
gardener
Posts: 1193
Location: Denver, 6a / BSk, rental house dweller, going back to Wheaton Labs soon
719
hugelkultur kids forest garden trees books wofati cooking bike rocket stoves
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
"A town with no cars that can feed itself."


I'm sure it seems abrupt, or not in keeping with the spirit of the exercise, but I realized it really is my answer.

I hadn't thought of it in terms of being "my non-negotiable" until now. So; thank you, for helping me to refine my thinking.
 
gardener
Posts: 3043
Location: Southern Illinois
558
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am an early riser, so I like to rise about 3:00 am, come downstairs and drink my 2-3 cups of coffee to fully wake up.  3-5 is basically my me-time.  Sometimes I watch the light slowly increase outside and see darkness turn into light.  Sometimes I get on Permies early to see what I missed over the night.  Those two hours really help me get through the day.

Eric
 
John F Dean
gardener
Posts: 1788
Location: southern Illinois.
411
composting toilet food preservation homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Eric,

It sounds like we have a similar start to our day.  You do rise earlier than I do. I normally have fast cup of coffee on the run while I address the livestock. Then me time comes.  

Years ago I taught an introduction to grad school short course. One of the hardest points that I had to get across was the importance of me time.  Many students felt they were somehow cheating their families if they had any me time ... of course, that was after I had to explain what me time was.  Before I stopped teaching I did a very informal follow up and found that the students who objected to me time dropped out after the end of the first semester.
 
Eric Hanson
gardener
Posts: 3043
Location: Southern Illinois
558
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John,

I really learned the importance of me time my first year of teaching.  Pretty much any teacher will tell you how grueling that first year really is, but in my case I has a couple of factors working against me.  The first was that I was a last possible minute hire so I had absolutely no time to prepare before having my first class.  Every day I taught 5 classes, graded 5 classes, and prepared 5 classes.  The real time consumer was all the prep work.  I knew that the first year was going to be tough, but having no prior prep time made that year really arduous.  What is commonly not visible about teaching, especially that first year, is the amount of prep time that goes in.  It is not uncommon to prepare 2 hours for a single hour of class, and I remember times when I prepared 5 hours for the one hour of class.  Time was precious.

On top of that, I had 3 preps, which is to say that I taught three different subjects, each of which needed to be separately planned.  There is literally barely time in the day to do this.

That first year, my me time was from 4-6 pm where I went out and walked to get some exercise and an attempt to clear my head.  Those two hours saved me.  The rest of the time I was either teaching, grading, planning, planning, planning, doing miscellaneous paperwork not directly tied to teaching.  And when I was not doing any of that I was usually thinking about class, I even dreamed about it.

Fortunately, the planning pays off and subsequent years are not nearly so arduous, but that little bit of me time from 4:00 to 6:00 was what kept me going.

Eric
 
Posts: 37
Location: AR, USA
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Morning coffee, clean refrigerator the morning of grocery shopping, take food and water for the dog, wolf and rat even if we are only planning an hour or so out.
 
Carla Burke
gardener
Posts: 1789
639
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Ash Jackson wrote:"A town with no cars that can feed itself."


I'm sure it seems abrupt, or not in keeping with the spirit of the exercise, but I realized it really is my answer.

I hadn't thought of it in terms of being "my non-negotiable" until now. So; thank you, for helping me to refine my thinking.



So, you want Macinac Island, MI. Expensive place to live, with cold, snowy winters, incredibly gorgeous summers and autumns, but if those things are good, for you, I think it might actually fit.
 
Ash Jackson
gardener
Posts: 1193
Location: Denver, 6a / BSk, rental house dweller, going back to Wheaton Labs soon
719
hugelkultur kids forest garden trees books wofati cooking bike rocket stoves
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey Carla, thanks for the suggestion!

I've seen pictures of Macinac Island, (and Fire Island, and others like it), but never visited.

Yes, "the way we used to build towns" is very much in the DNA of what I'm looking to find/create.
 
Posts: 109
Location: So Cal - Inland Empire
23
foraging rabbit books chicken cooking fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sleeping with my deceased mother's feather pillow in my arms.

I might say the morning coffee, but honestly, some days I do without!

Bare feeties as much as possible. We have these horrible weeds that have a very thorny seed pod, called goatheads, and I DO NOT ALLOW these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulus_terrestris ) in my yard so that I can go barefooted anywhere in my yard space (tiny both because I live in town in a tiny mobile home park and because there is a 4'x6' partially sunken pond in the middle and fruit and shade trees and a few raised beds within the yard, but I still have the largest yard in the park!).

Staying away from neighbors who love to gossip about everything and everyone. I tried to be friends, but that kind of behavior is abhorrent to me. We now only swap sometime waves in passing or brief hellos.

I'd never given any thought to the elderly in nursing facility situations not being allowed their NON-negotiables. I take care of these folks while they are still at home, for a living. If they are special to me, and find themselves in a nursing home for whatever reason I will go visit them. It gives them a bright spot in their day, and something to work towards to get back home so we have more time to spend together. My last "special" client spent many months over the course of our years together in this situation. Her last stay saw her come home on hospice care because she wasn't making progress. It went downhill from there. She lived in this same park and I believe is why I am here now. I was close enough to be able to use a baby monitor overnights.

 
Amateurs built google. Professionals built the titanic. We can't find the guy that built this tiny ad:
100th Issue of Permaculture Magazine - now FREE for a while
https://permies.com/goodies/45/pmag
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic