• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Devaka Cooray
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Timothy Norton
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Matt McSpadden
  • thomas rubino

Solar basics

 
Posts: 221
31
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I looked through the electrical forum topics and didn't find a relevant heading so I apologize if this is a redundant, oft answered, question.

Was there (or is there) a purpose in having multiple options for system voltage (I.E. 12, 24, 36, 48, volt battery banks) or was this a mere offshoot of backyard experiments or corporate efforts at non compatibility to encourage in house systems?

Is there any advantage of higher voltage DC systems, given comparable wattage?
 
gardener
Posts: 859
Location: N.E.Ohio 5b6a
591
food preservation homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We like 12v dc because it will not shock you.  You can put positive and negative in a chicken waterer and nothing will happen.   It is safe around the kids as long as it is fused properly.  It will weld if it is direct shorted and enough amps are available. We use 12v to run corn shellers and grinders, coolers, heaters, fans, fence chargers, and a fridge.  The reason for upping the voltage is to use smaller wire for the same given power. Amps x volts + watts.  Amps make for bigger wire.  12v x 1a=12w, 24v x .5a=12w.  36 volts starts to shock you on hot sweaty days and 48v will bite you harder.  You can think of it as volts = how hard it pushes and amps = is how much it is flowing.  
IMG_20200621_193003755.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20200621_193003755.jpg]
 
Posts: 47
Location: North Central North Carolina Zone 7B
6
forest garden homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So using more smaller systems the 12 volt is better?  If you are not trying to push the voltage a long distance then having more but smaller independent systems may be worthwhile if you are scaling up an operations.  Is that about it?
 
master steward
Posts: 6655
Location: southern Illinois, USA
2370
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig bee solar wood heat homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
While there are strong efficiency arguments in favor of higher voltage systems, I chose to go with a 12 volt system due to safety concerns.  I have no idea as to why there would be multiple voltages .....unless ....maybe....the individual had multiple DC appliances running off different voltages.  I chose to convert to standard AC because I already had the appliances, and DC appliances often cost a fortune.  The energy lost in the conversion could be made up by adding a couple more batteries and panels.

The cost of wiring was also a concern for me.  I live in a very shaded house. My panels are a good distance from my house.

Oh yes, another reason I have for 12 volt is that if I should decide to run with DC  appliances, many of those can be found at a truck stop.
 
rocket scientist
Posts: 6031
Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A
2959
cat pig rocket stoves
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Bill;   For the most part it is solar power just evolving from its roots.
I have been 100% off grid since 1983... I've seen a lot of changes.
I still make my power as 12 vt and then invert it to 110.   Using a pure sine wave inverter produces cleaner power than the power company can make.

The military started using 24 volt systems to utilize smaller wire that can run longer distance.
The solar folks picked up on that and started using 24 volt over 12.   Its just easier to move DC voltage @ higher voltage.
Hence came the 48 volt systems.  The old theory if a little is good then a lot must be better.

Enter the grid intertie  systems and mppt charge controls.  Now you started seeing 36 volt panels, that could be located quite a distance from the battery's .,
Power is generated and transmitted at a high voltage.  Mppt charge control systems bring that voltage down to your system size,  or sent down the power lines to the grid.

I do have a small straight 12 vt system in the house that gets used all the time as lighting.  The rest of my home is all inverted power.  Its too easy to buy anything you want or need at 110, 12 vt stuff is readily available @ truck stops and marina's.  But the cost is unacceptable.  
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 6655
Location: southern Illinois, USA
2370
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig bee solar wood heat homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Denny,

I hesitate to use the word better. Certainly better for me.  There are many people who would encourage a 48 volt system.
 
Posts: 1
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
looking for some options opinions to get the most out of my setup.
I have:
3 100w mono solar panels wired parelell
6   12v  100AH deep cycle batteries
40A mppt charge controller
Load wired directly to my camper 12v system
3000w sine inverter for AC outlets

15970854337038969410408585362612.jpg
[Thumbnail for 15970854337038969410408585362612.jpg]
1597085456135360448571564067328.jpg
[Thumbnail for 1597085456135360448571564067328.jpg]
15970854830358997690966710786068.jpg
[Thumbnail for 15970854830358997690966710786068.jpg]
15970855176391193681748737329675.jpg
[Thumbnail for 15970855176391193681748737329675.jpg]
15970855416357173170729266830670.jpg
[Thumbnail for 15970855416357173170729266830670.jpg]
15970857013913103709314542922803.jpg
[Thumbnail for 15970857013913103709314542922803.jpg]
 
pollinator
Posts: 3826
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat
554
2
forest garden solar
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Higher Voltage means higher available power. Most devices (charge controller, inverter, charger, breakers, etc) can only handle around 150A. (One can always pay a higher though)

So a 12volt x 150A = 1,800W
vs
48volt x 150A = 7,200W

Voltage above 48 will shock you, so 12v and 24volt are wonderful low voltage options.
Higher voltage means less power loss in the same size wire, thus enabling a longer cable run, or smaller wire for the same length thus saving money.

24V is wonderful for alot of off-grid direct drive pump, fridge and freezers.

I like 48v because that is the same voltage that Power over Ethernet (phones, computers, wifi/network devices, lights, USB-C Power Delivery), and each cable can deliver up to 100W.

120V DC is popular for direct drive workshop machines (circular saw/etc)
24v and 48v cordless power tools can also be ran directly too


 
What do you have to say for yourself? Hmmm? Anything? And you call yourself a tiny ad.
Simple Succession Planting by Angi Schneider
https://permies.com/wiki/190647/ebooks/Simple-Succession-Planting-Angi-Schneider
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic