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possible kickstarter for wofati greenhouse project

 
steward
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This has been a rollercoaster day.  

We mentioned an idea in a couple of places.  We want to install a year round graywater system in allerton abbey.  So there would be a small wofati greenhouse a little ways away from allerton abbey.  And it would be full of plants that looooove graywater.  

In discussions a few months ago with jennifer and josiah, the three of us came up with some ideas for what would make a wofati greenhouse be a step up from an oehler greenhouse.  

An oehler greenhouse has four major components:

  - pit style

  - one long bed with the bed on the uphill side, and walkway on the downhill side

  - earth bermed on the north side

  - a five feet deep pit under the walkway

The wofati greenhouse would add

  - the earth berm side would add the umbrella to add annualized thermal inertia (ATI)

  - the five feet deep pit would be augmented with two 20 feet deep well casings

  - passive destratification


Passive destratification:   a one inch pipe would go to about a foot from the bottom of the well casing to a foot from the top of the greenhouse area.   Blackened metal pipe would be exposed to the sun.  When the sun shines on the pipe, air is moved up.  Cold air is pulled from the lowest area, warmed and expelled into the greenhouse.  This means that the warmer air in the greenhouse is eventually pulled/pushed into the lowest area.   Without this, the air at the top of the greenhouse gets very warm while the air at the lowest area remains cold - stratified.   The one inch pipe will passively force an air exchange from the coldest area to the warmest.  During the night, the lowest area can become warmer than the greenhouse area, so that air rises.  


-----

Today I was meeting with Mike and Ashley and they suggested that I should do a kickstarter for the wofati greenhouse.   Basically, we have josiah here to be the videographer guy.  And we have the bootcamp here to build it.  

So at lunch we threw together a rough idea.  

Rewards:

$15 the final movie when it is all done

$50 heaps of raw footage as we collect it

$100 weekly interactive:  Two hours of Q&A as we plow through the project.   All of which is recorded and may end up in the final movie.  No fewer than four interactives.  Plus, name in the credits and a few other goodies.  


We are trying to put together a rough idea of expenses.  Maybe some extra video equipment?  If we are on a timeline, we might need a "plan B" for the excavator.  Materials.  Tools?  All of the regular kickstarter expenses.  


The timeline is that we would start the kickstarter around the first of july so if it is funded, we might start the work in early august - an excellent time to do that sort of work.  We expect the build to take four weeks.  And then we need to test the temperatures over the winter.  So the final movie could be available sometime in march.  

Click on the thumbs up for this post if you would support this kickstarter.  



 
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One thing we'd be interested in doing for this project is to find some tracking thermometers similar to the ones I'm using to track the temperature in Allerton Abbey, but with better data sharing capabilities--right now, I have to manually take screen shots of the data on my phone and post them to my thread. Any ideas?
 
Jennifer Richardson
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Here is the script we are thinking about using for the promo video:


I’m Paul Wheaton and this is my ninth kickstarter.

I shared an idea with my podcast listeners and it seems that a LOT of people want me to shift my priorities and do this project NOW!  So much so that they are waving fistfuls of cash in my general direction.   So let’s find out what that adds up to.  

The idea starts with how greywater systems don’t generally work in a cold climate.  But it could be a good use for a small greenhouse.  But greenhouses need to be heated in winter, and they need a lot of care.  It would be better to have a fully passive greenhouse. Maybe starting with an Oehler-style greenhouse design.  But better.  There was one new idea that Mike Oehler and I discussed before he died.   And I have two more ideas on top of that I would like to try.  

Mike’s design is close.  He was able to grow tomatoes in northern idaho in december.  We just need to optimize this a little further to get through the whole winter.  

Mike’s design features an earth berm on the north side and a five foot deep pit under the walkway to tap into the steady earth temperatures.

The idea I shared with mike that he liked was to introduce a 1 inch blackened metal tube under the glass that reached into the pit.   This would passively reduce the stratification on a hot day - pushing excess heat into the pit.  

Another idea is related to the Annualized Thermal Inertia that we use in our wofati structures - heat from the summer is used to heat a building in the winter.   So we wish to add that to the greenhouse.  

And finally, let’s extend the brilliant pit down 20 feet with two twenty foot long well casings.  

I think that with these three optimizations added on to Mike’s original design, we should be able to have a greenhouse that never gets too hot or too cold, without fuel, electricity, moving parts or human discipline.  

Will it work?   This leads to the big kickstarter question:  do you want us to try?




We would love to hear some feedback!
 
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I think this is very interesting.  I have a question about the one inch pipe though.  How was one inch arrived at?  It may be worthwhile to test one inch, four inch, 8 inch, or something like that.
 
Jennifer Richardson
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We are trying to come up with a title for the kickstarter. It can only be 60 characters.

Here is the list of titles we have come up with so far that can be massaged to fit under 60 characters:


Totally passive greenhouse for off-grid tiny house (Movie)
Earth-sheltered greenhouse for off-grid tiny house (Movie)
Timber-framed greenhouse for off-grid cabin (Movie)
Building a totally passive greywater greenhouse (Movie)
Movie: devious experiments to get a truly passive greenhouse
Devious experiments for a truly passive greenhouse! (Movie)
Year-round passive greenhouse experiments (Movie)
Earth-sheltered passive greenhouse movie
Devious experiments to get a permaculture greenhouse (Movie)



Do you have any thoughts on our choices or ideas for titles? At some point, we'll probably do a poor-man's poll here to help us select the best one for the Kickstarter!

 
gardener
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Cool!  I love the quick progress!

I like that it deals mostly with the project and not with the candy.  It appeals to the "base".  Do you have data/feelings about how much revenue the project vs the candy generated on past kickstarter projects?

I love this amount of detail.  I'm not keeping up with ALL your wonderful content these days, so some of it was news to me, which is how I like it.    But maybe some other types would think it too long and wonky?

And then the ending:

Will it work?   This leads to the big kickstarter question:  do you want us to try?



What a cliff hanger!  I worry a little about stopping short of a "call to arms" or an "ask" at the end.  But it's dramatic.  Maybe it would be effective if the narration ended like this, but then there was big text on the screen asking folks to pledge?
 
Kerry Rodgers
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The above post was about the script.  This one is about titles...

The internet has a seemingly insatiable desire for “tiny house” and “cabin”, so those are hooks.  If you incorporate a sauna, outdoor shower, and cold soak combo….    (Just kidding.)

For me, the “earth sheltered” and “gray water” concepts are more interesting/novel than “totally-passive” or “timber-framed” are.

I’m drawing a blank on words, but what about the “cheap” angle?   “The $50…”

Here are a few random more permutations:

Clean Gray Water Year-round in an Earth-sheltered Greenhouse (Film)
Greenhouse Plants Recycle Water—Even in winter! (Documentary)
A Lush Greenhouse Recycles Water—Even in winter! (Documentary)
Off-grid Greenhouse Cleans Water in Winter (Documentary)
Lush in Winter, and Recycles Water (Documentary)

Synonyms:
Earth-sheltered, earth-connected, grounded, climate battery, geothermal, cave, grotto, Wofati
All year, year-round, four season, all winter, even in winter, Montana winter, under snow, cold proof, indoor
Gray water, recycle water, clean water, kitchen water
Clean, purify, recycle
Movie, documentary, story, video, experience
Lush, gorgeous, generous, paradise, oasis, loving, giving, purple…. lol

Can you tell I’m procrastinating something else I'm supposed to be doing?

 
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Jennifer Richardson wrote:One thing we'd be interested in doing for this project is to find some tracking thermometers similar to the ones I'm using to track the temperature in Allerton Abbey, but with better data sharing capabilities--right now, I have to manually take screen shots of the data on my phone and post them to my thread. Any ideas?



I've used HOBO meters for different field monitoring projects. They're fairly common for environmental work and tend to work well. I haven't used these specific ones but they're cheaper than a lot of loggers and easy to mount. Plus you can access the data via your phone using their app. I looked up the app and you can export the data as a CSV file and then share that file. It should then work with any spreadsheet software like open office, excel or google spreadsheets.

https://www.onsetcomp.com/products/data-loggers/mx2201

https://www.onsetcomp.com/products/data-loggers/mx2202

https://www.onsetcomp.com/products/data-loggers/mx2203

https://www.onsetcomp.com/products/data-loggers/mx2204

They also have this item for mounting on surfaces that aren't flat. Though I'm sure you could setup something yourself.

https://www.onsetcomp.com/products/accessories/boot-mx2201-2202/

The app that works with those loggers can be found here:

https://www.onsetcomp.com/products/software/hobomobile

Hope that helps!
 
Kerry Rodgers
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And one more random thought about the project as a whole:

Rob Avis, Verge Permaculture, in Calgary has deep experience in the cold climate greenhouse and climate battery space.  He consults and runs courses about this subject.  I took one a few years ago, and it was excellent.  (I was hoping to build a more modest thing like Mike's build here, but then life happened.)

Rob might be interested in some kind of collaboration on your project, such as:
* He's an engineer who can calculate stuff about the amounts of things:  how much glazing area, insulation, thermal mass, ground pipe, etc you need to get your desired temperature range.
* He has a very sophisticated spreadsheet that allows you to estimate these quantities as you iterate your design.
* He might want to contribute candy.

https://vergepermaculture.ca/
 
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In the title department, I'm thinking throwing Montana in there could raise some eyebrows in a good way.  "Passive year round greenhouse in South Carolina" meh.  "Passive Year Round Montana Greenhouse" sounds pretty cool...  I'm also not sure that anything with "greywater" in it would attract the general public on kickstarter.  But "Growing food in an off grid Montana greenhouse year round" could be easy enough for anyone to understand.

In the engineering department, I'm thinking we should hash out some of the details of this well casing and air pipe.  

In the trial management department, it would be sweet if the pipes in the casing can be swapped out for bigger/littler/shorter/longer ones without requiring too much work.

Additional rewards:
  • Get your name carved into a log on the back wall - $25
  • Get your name carved in a prominent place - $100
  • Participate on the build at WL at your leisure - $400 per week
  •  
    pollinator
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    Jennifer Richardson wrote:One thing we'd be interested in doing for this project is to find some tracking thermometers similar to the ones I'm using to track the temperature in Allerton Abbey, but with better data sharing capabilities--right now, I have to manually take screen shots of the data on my phone and post them to my thread. Any ideas?



    If you have a computer sitting around that you could dedicate to the project, vernier.com has some easy to use temperature probes.
    They will take readings at what ever frequency you set.
    You can have multiple probes for multiple inputs, like air coming out of the pipe vs air going into the well casing vs ambient room air.
    It has graphing software so you can do analysis of your data.
    I've always gotten good help from their customer service department.
    Sorry, it's been years since I bought mine, I don't remember the prices, just that they were fairly reasonable for a small high school.
     
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    Jennifer Richardson wrote:
    Devious experiments for a truly passive greenhouse! (Movie)



    Above is my favorite.   I also like the suggestion to add the Montana location - WAY more impressive then something in the Carolinas.

    BTW, we're planning to build a root cellar this year or early next year and will probably use the 2 umbrella idea you use in the WOFATI.  Due to a seasonal ground level water table, we have to build up and berm, not dig into the ground.  Got lots of local examples but none use the second umbrella as far as I know.  Foresee a future passive greenhouse build that can use greywater when the ground is frozen in winter, and would definitely be interested in your experiment.
     
    Mike Haasl
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    Kickstarter #10 - Wofati freezer
     
    pollinator
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    I would love to see this kickstarter and I would be be able to donate on the $15 level. I do think you guys should keep in mind that a lot of folk may still be financially unstable right now due to the virus, so support may still be somewhat less in July. However, it is a fantastic project and as much as I would truly love to see more behind the scenes, I have to figure out how to pay my bills first. I just worry many people are in the same boat right now.

    As far as a title goes, I agree that adding Montana in will be helpful. As much as greywater is what caught my eye, I agree that it is not going to catch as many people as the thought of being able to use the greenhouse year round for growing edibles will. Will you be adding into the documentary how the greywater is being treated and piped through the greenhouse and beyond? Will greywater plant selection be included as well? Adding these things are fairly vital for anyone who is really wanting to use this for greywater treatment. While, those who are interested in growing edibles can simply ignore those parts.

    Tiny home is a good buzzword but really since that is already established has little to do with this project. Though I think that a lot of people want to learn, especially right now. So, my suggestion would be something along the lines of "Documentary: Passive greenhouse treats greywater in Montana" for something strictly informational, it does not have the witty touches the other titles did though.

    I wish you guys the very best of luck in this project. You are awesome!
     
    master steward
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    I'm trying to think of terms that level 1 and 2 people will have heard of, and understand.

    I didn't know what greywater was (or that I should care about it) before I came to permies. I didn't know the term "earth-sheltered." And, I didn't know what "passive" meant in this situation. "Passive" only meant something negative--someone who's passive and doesn't do anything, or someone who's passive-aggressive.

    I'm also thinking about how pictures of underground greenhouses circulate on facebook, even by people who don't know much about growing stuff. Underground stuff is cool.


    Underground Greenhouse for Year-round Growing in Montana
    Underground Greenhouse Documentary
    How To Build Your Own Underground Greenhouse probably not an accurate title)
    Underground Greenhouse for the Frozen North
    Greenhouse Heated by Earth and Water--documentary
     
    pollinator
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    a thought on titles ...a balloon?  maybe a lead balloon...?

    If trying to reach beyond folks who've thought about energy usage, trying to get the zeroes and ones, "Passive" seems like a bad choice.  Passive is indeed the opposite of Active, but that's only helpful if someone is aware that most greenhouses are "Active" and that there is an alternative. Further the objective of the design isn't that its underground (that's for mole people, or for underground bunkers... and its really just a boatload of lights and some hydroponic buckets).

    I haven't followed the plan enough to be certain but -
    "No added heat greenhouse ..."
    "Cold-Climate Greenhouse with only Solar Energy"
    "Low-Cost, No Heat Greenhouse"
    "Grow Veggies Anywhere , Anytime, Offgrid"
     
    paul wheaton
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    Dianne Justeen wrote:

    Jennifer Richardson wrote:
    Devious experiments for a truly passive greenhouse! (Movie)

    Above is my favorite.  



    Woohoo!  I wrote that one!
     
    paul wheaton
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    Mike Haasl wrote:In the title department, I'm thinking throwing Montana in there could raise some eyebrows in a good way.  



    I agree.  The 60 character limit makes things a bit tight.  

    After a half hour of brainstorming, this is my fave:  Devious experiments for a truly passive greenhouse! (Movie)

    I think this format is a big risk.  We don't really have skin in the game yet.  We are going to do the experiment first.  Of course, we do a lot of experiments all the time, and this experiment is just a bit outside our budget right now.  Further, kickstarter is about products - so we need "movie" to tell people what the product is.

    I'm getting butterflies in my stomach just typing this.   It is an exciting project, but ...  will enough people support it?  

     
    paul wheaton
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    Kerry Rodgers wrote:I like that it deals mostly with the project and not with the candy.  It appeals to the "base".  Do you have data/feelings about how much revenue the project vs the candy generated on past kickstarter projects?



    I think we will be trying to add even more candy than last time.  

    Here is Jennifer.  She lives here.  She has been here for nearly a year.  She was on the dailyish and was ignoring our emails.   And on the last kickstarter about an hour before the end, we announced the $100 level with a mountain of candy.  She finally opened an email and thought "that's a lot of stuff I'm interested in.  I'm trying to not spend money right now, but damn!"  -- so she forked over the $100 cuzza the candy.   And then we said "if you are interested in maybe getting one of the six tickets to the PDC" she said "sure, I would be interested."  And then she got it.  And then she came.  And then she stayed.  

    It's hard to not do the candy thing in these conditions.


    I love this amount of detail.  I'm not keeping up with ALL your wonderful content these days, so some of it was news to me, which is how I like it.    But maybe some other types would think it too long and wonky?



    Example?


    And then the ending:

    Will it work?   This leads to the big kickstarter question:  do you want us to try?



    What a cliff hanger!  I worry a little about stopping short of a "call to arms" or an "ask" at the end.  But it's dramatic.  Maybe it would be effective if the narration ended like this, but then there was big text on the screen asking folks to pledge?



    Here is the last kickstarter video.   Note the end (3:11) has the message "give us monies!"




    And the end of this video (2:35) "give us monies!"


     
    paul wheaton
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    As long as we are talking about improvements to the script, maybe we need to bring up the past kickstarter videos:

    2015 rocket mass heater dvds




    2013 permaculture playing cards




    2017 PDC and ATC live --  the kickstarter was put together super quick!




    2014 World Domination Gardening



     
    paul wheaton
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    We are thinking of changing the $15 reward to $10.   Mostly because I want to be a lot more generous to the kickstarter supporters.   The thinking is (and please let me know if you think this thinking might be flawed) that more people will support the kickstarter, so the total income will be about the same.  


    So ....


    $1:  THANKS

    lots of goodies + microdoc


    $5:  CANDY

    bigger goodies
    + everything in THANKS


    $10:  MOVIE

    bigger goodies
    + everything in THANKS
    + everything in CANDY


    $25:  EARLY

    part 1, design, in september (early)
    part 2, build, in october (early)
    part 3 - with the rest of the movie

    + plans?

    + everything in THANKS
    + everything in CANDY
    + everything in MOVIE


    $50:  RAW

    A lot of raw video
    the final artifacts from GLORY

    + everything in THANKS
    + everything in CANDY
    + everything in MOVIE
    + everything in EARLY


    $100:  GLORY

    Ability to participate with something like zoom or youtube in at least three design meetings
      - possibly with experts
    Ability to participate with the builders in a weekly build review session
    Ability to participate with the residents doing some walk throughs of the final product
    + name in the final movie
    + 3 gift codes for the final movie

    + everything in THANKS
    + everything in CANDY
    + everything in MOVIE
    + everything in EARLY
    + everything in RAW



    Maybes ...

    $500 - goofballs keen on world domination (limit 6)

    $1000 - associate producer credit

    $2000 - executive producer credit

    $3000 - supreme executive producer with bacon cheese and sparkles credit



    Earlybird stuff:  definitely doing that again.    Last time we had 31 freebie things.   I wonder if we can do 40 this time.



    Ask:  $15,000


    This is the moment for brainstorming!  Wuddya got?


     
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    oops i clicked thumbs up after a couple paragraphs

    would love to be an associate producer if i had lots of dough

    i will likely support this though since i would like to do something similar maybe next year
     
    Phil Swindler
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    Are you ready for questions and comments about the project yet?
    I'm wondering about that 20 ft well casing.
    Are you trying to hit ground water or stay above ground water?
    Some places here in Kansas the ground water is way deeper than 20 ft.
    In my neighborhood the ground water is only a couple feet below my basement.
    Do you know how deep your ground water is?
    Do you care?
     
    steward & bricolagier
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    Maybe having a copy of the building plans as candy would attract some people?
     
    gardener
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    Kerry Rodgers wrote:

    The internet has a seemingly insatiable desire for “tiny house” and “cabin”, so those are hooks.  If you incorporate a sauna, outdoor shower, and cold soak combo….    (Just kidding.)

    For me, the “earth sheltered” and “gray water” concepts are more interesting/novel than “totally-passive” or “timber-framed” are.

    I’m drawing a blank on words, but what about the “cheap” angle?   “The $50…”



    I like how Kerry is thinking on the name. "Grey-water" also sparks my attention. My favourite so far is " Earth-sheltered greenhouse for off-grid tiny house ".

    I like the Q & A idea as in incentive to throw down cash! Let's people participate despite restrictions to participate on site (like boarder being closed...)

    Promo video needs Jen! everyone loves Jen!

    Will support this kickstarter 100%!
     
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    I really suggest quantifying every element in this build from cubic meters of soil moved to soil density as it varies with depth to diurnal temperature fluctuations.  Pushing the data collection will really help me translate the project to a flat site in northeastern Wisconsin.  I've dreamed of a greenhouse that doesn't contribute to climate change for decades.  This is a project that excites me!

     
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    I was so excited about this project. I listened on the podcast and I became enamored with the idea. After the project was put on hold, I still thought about it.

    Paul, this project is a home run. While I live in a convention house in the country, raising plants in the winter means growing lights and big electric bills (really it would drain my Powerwalls for something I don't want to put it towards). I would love to implement the grey water system.

    Concerning the grey water or asking questions to answer in the movie, how would the grey water enter from the house? I'm assuming black water is a no go and still for willow feeder or other things you talked about in your book.
     
    Nicole Alderman
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    I'm trying to envision what this would look like. Would it look a lot like the Oehler greenhouse? (It's hard to find good pictures of one of those! Anyone have any links to nice Oehler greenhouse designs?)

    I whipped up this graphic, but I'm not even sure it's even close to what we're thinking of...
    Earth-sheltered-Greenhouse-copy.jpg
    Image taken and colorized from Oehler's Earth-Sheltered Greenhouse book.
    Image taken and colorized from Oehler's Earth-Sheltered Greenhouse book.
     
    Posts: 49
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    I would be happy to support this kickstarter.

    An Oehler-style pit greenhouse is what I've been dreaming of, as it promises a huge extension on the northern growing season. If you guys do a bunch of work to improve that already-superb design, I am happy to support it financially.
     
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    Paul, I think this is an excellent idea! Especially since I have money to put towards the Kickstarter!

    BTW, I thought the rewards and stretch goals for your previous Kickstarter were great!
     
    Kerry Rodgers
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    paul wheaton wrote:

    Kerry Rodgers wrote:I like that it deals mostly with the project and not with the candy.  It appeals to the "base".


    I think we will be trying to add even more candy than last time.   ...  It's hard to not do the candy thing in these conditions.



    Oh definitely!  You do candy far better than anyone I've ever seen on crowdfunding.    I was thinking many things in my head and wrote an unfocussed comment.  

    I should've said:  "I observe that the script does not mention the candy" and left it at that.  Now that you've posted them, I see that the previous videos worked a very similar way.  

    BTW, the animated light-sabre scene for the Rocket Oven project is so, so very awesome.

    paul wheaton wrote:

    Kerry Rodgers wrote:I love this amount of detail.  I'm not keeping up with ALL your wonderful content these days, so some of it was news to me, which is how I like it.    But maybe some other types would think it too long and wonky?

    Example?



    Example of "I didn't know (or possibly just didn't remember) about that":
    * Discussing anti-stratification tube with Mike O.
    * The two well casings idea.

    Example of "other type people may think it long".  I was thinking about the point of view of people who are not already familiar with the following (two minutes of jargon-I-dont-know can seem a long time):
    * who is was Mike Oehler?  
    * what is a berm?
    * do greenhouses have a "walkway"?
    * what is stratification?
    * what is a well casing?

    Probably all these will/can be addressed in the visuals.  

    paul wheaton wrote:And the end of this [Rocket Oven] video (2:35) "give us monies!"



    I think I'm gonna watch that Light Sabre battle! again, now.  Thanks for that!
     
    Kerry Rodgers
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    Paul Wheaton wrote:
    $50:  RAW

    A lot of raw video
    the final artifacts from GLORY

    + everything in ...

    $100:  GLORY

    Ability to participate with something like zoom or youtube in at least three design meetings
      - possibly with experts
    Ability to participate with the builders in a weekly build review session
    Ability to participate with the residents doing some walk throughs of the final product
    + name in the final movie
    + 3 gift codes for the final movie

    + everything in ...
    + everything in RAW

    Ask:  $15,000

    This is the moment for brainstorming!  Wuddya got?



    The $100 level is really awesome--a big jump from $50.  I notice that you got a decent number of supporters at the $150 and $200 levels in the last 2 kickstarters (I didn't look further back than that).  What about dividing the $100 rewards between a $100 level and a (slightly) higher level?  Possible division strategies might be 1 meeting vs 3 meetings, or not-getting-weekly vs getting weekly updates.

    I know there is COVID economic hardship out there, but right now, I'm still working.   In July?  Who knows?  Some sectors may recover fast while others are slower.   it is hard to predict.

    Probably every level should get a high level design summary about the time the build starts.  Otherwise, progress posts/vids will be hard for them to understand.   Maybe you don't need to promise that, or maybe it gives a bullet point for a level that needs more text?  Or, what if everyone gets a forum post with 5 bullets and a still picture, while some higher levels get a 2 minute walk-thru-the-design video?  I don't think such a video needs to be highly polished.

    I'm excited about this and any sub-project that accelerates the Abbey towards Gertitude.  And in case anyone else reading this thread has a short memory like I do, here's what I just saw on Kickstarter about the book project:

    2,768 backers pledged $153,983 to help bring this project to life.

     
    Posts: 30
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    I have been using, for the past 5 years, a multi-channel monitoring system from a company in Ontario, Rogersdini, who sell through eBay.  They sell a dongle which plugs into the USB port of any Windows machine, (can be 20 years old!).  Comes with program with instructions in Chinese, but I have been able to set it up with occasional help from seller, (very helpful and responsive).  Can go up to 64 temperature probes if you really want to go to ridiculous extremes.  (I am currently running 6 probes).  4-channel version costs $59 US (plus shipping);  increase to 8 channel is $115.  (This is exactly the same unit, but with a bunch of splitters and extra probes.)  Logs temperatures of all probes at set interval, stores lots of data, displays graphs of readings directly, but also downloads readings as comma delimited file which can be loaded directly into Excel.  (And if you go this route, I have a little Excel routine to group the readings which I am very willing to share with anybody interested.)  Basically, very cost-effective multi-channel temp monitor, seems to be reliable, (5 years so far).  Only requirement is a Windows computer, (which can be an old one no longer in use for anything else.)  And a heck of a lot cheaper than a HOBO, (although HOBOs are a lot fancier).  eBay listing for 4-channel: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/4-Channel-Temperature-Chart-Recorder-Data-Logger-analyzing-Alarm-by-Computer-PC/112652870901?hash=item1a3aa264f5:g:bZkAAOxyzGlQ8Wr~  (More channels can be located from this listing if you need/want them)
     
    Mike Haasl
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    Would it be possible to mount a camera or three somewhere near the action that could just watch and listen to the build in action?  If there was a camera looking over the team's shoulder and hearing them joke/sing/scheme among themselves and see the stuff getting nailed together it would be damn awesome.  And some folks may pay to have access to that feed.  Especially if they could watch it later and speed it up or skip the boring parts.  The camera may need to be moved several times as the project proceeds.

    Maybe this is what it intended in the RAW bundle?  I'm trying to give people an option where they can be right there in the action and hear the conversations as they happen.  

    Oh, maybe for an extra $500 they could have someone's cell number so they can text "Hey, you may want to flip that log over because there's an ugly spot on that side".  Then they're really feel like they're in on the build.

     
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    in the email I recd it asked about ideas for a greenhouse in Montana.

    If this the correct thread AND IF you are looking for ideas I recommend watching
    the youtube  - search
    Growing Oranges in the Snow in Nebraska.

    Truly inspiring



     
    paul wheaton
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    Ian Sa wrote:in the email I recd it asked about ideas for a greenhouse in Montana.

    If this the correct thread AND IF you are looking for ideas I recommend watching
    the youtube  - search
    Growing Oranges in the Snow in Nebraska.

    Truly inspiring



    7 amps is a lot of power.
     
    pioneer
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    I would support at a higher level for a sketchup file or detailed plans. I will be glad to encourage innovation with some of that stimulus money. I can't think of any better use of it
     
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    This is an inexpensive tracker for temp/ humidity.  Has worked quite well, and is inexpensive enough, that you could mount several in the structure and track conditions.  Made by Govee.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DWMJKP5/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzSTFQUUY2MURXMlJYJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzg0MTg2MjJRNzFWUTM2SzY5SyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzIwMjAxMk9DRUlOMzlDWlU4TiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2hxcF9zaGFyZWQmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
     
    pollinator
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    First off if you have a coder who can do light electronics too here is another possible for temperature measurement.  It would work with almost any of the modern microcontrollers.  At $0.31 a piece it is a cheap dirty answer to sensors.  If you added say an arduino and a couple of shields you should still be under $200.  Skip the complexity and you might be able to get it under $100.  Biggest cost will be it is all hard wired sensors.  The wire will cost more than the sensors will.

    temperature sensor

    Second off from what I have learned running without heat here in Northern WY you will likely want more than just passive pipes.  The lesson learned is that if you want to warm tons of (stationary water, rock, dirt or ____) by moving air by it then you need to move tons of air by it.  So if your plans are flexible enough to allow powered ducts if needed without redesign it might be a smart move.  I am finding here the generically recommended 5 to 7 air changes an hour is marginal at best.  At this points I am more inclined to agree with the Ceres information suggesting 10 air changes an hour with the mass.  And while it is a huge power draw compared to zero the whole house for the solar is using 30 watts of power about 5 to 7 hours a day on sunny days only.  Because that drags the heat down it rises naturally at night.  Since the goal is only above freezing it might be way easier to get enough circulation though.
     
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