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PEP Replacing Plants for Australia?

 
Posts: 17
Location: Warrnambool, Australia
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Hi there!

I'm pretty new here, and excited at the prospects of the PEP...looks like a lot of great skills and challenges that wouldn't have even popped into my head before!

That being said, I'm wondering if it would work to replace some of the tree planting requirements with trees that aren't considered a danger to the environment here in Australia? In particular, the black locust trees (could be changed out with tagasaste?) and willows come to mind -- planting willows, in particular, can actually be a fineable offence in some areas ^_^;

Thanks!
 
steward
Posts: 32893
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
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Sounds like a PEX

https://permies.com/t/96687/skills-inherit-property/PEP-PEX
 
Sage Grant
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Thanks! I've just read down the rabbit hole further, and that makes a lot more sense. For now I reckon I'll get as far as I can with the PEP badges, and then maybe in the future once I have more skills, I can work towards an Australian program.
 
Posts: 49
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Ah, a fellow Aussie! Welcome!

I’ve pretty much come to the same conclusion you have re: PEP badges and their suitability for Australian/non-Montanan climates. Many of the BBs are easily transferable across many (if not most) parts of the world. Others.... not so much. Hugelkultur is the classic one. I can’t think of a single Australian climate where building a hugelkultur bed would be appropriate.

I’ve been sneaking around the edges of PEP ever since Paul conceived of the idea. Alas, I’ve had very little time or energy to devote to building or earning BBs. But I’m hopeful that I can one day help get the bones of a PEOz (or a PEUrban, or  maybe even a PEGlobal?) up and published.
 
steward
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Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
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I could see a PEX for Australia that copies 90% of the PEP Badges and 80% of the PEP BBs.  With transferable "credits" so that you can start on PEP and continue with PEOz or PESage...
 
Sage Grant
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Yeah, it would be great!! I'd definitely vote more for the name being PEOz though, haha. Happy to help work on something like that, but feel like I need a bit more experience myself before going about and building one.
 
Mike Haasl
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I was thinking about that also.  It's scary to name it after yourself but "safer" to name it after a region/country/etc.  But then if you call it PEOz, and someone from the other side of Oz says "hey, that stuff doesn't grow here, you can't call it the be all and end all for Australia", then you're in a pickle.  But if you call it PES then it can be whatever you think it should be and you'll always be right :)  You can say, of course, that it's a PEX that is well suited to an urban lot in a southern Australian coastal temperate climate (I made all that up).  Much like PEP is well suited for a chilly northern Rocky Mountain climate with handy access to an excavator.

But yes, it's a hell of a project and a great way to get started is to poke at a few PEP BBs and see how you like it.  
 
Sage Grant
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In the example of growing stuff, would it work if we said, say "plant x amount of tagasaste trees, or other like trees that will help as nurse trees and fix the soil (with an explanation of why it's a good stand in)"? Then it could be a bit more country-wide.
 
Mike Haasl
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You bet, if it's your PEX, you can set it up to be as broad or specific as you want it to be.  Keep in mind that the more broad it is, the harder it is to determine if people met the requirements.  
 
paul wheaton
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After PEP 1.0 is defined, I like the idea of fleshing out PEA.   And once PEA exists, it opens the door to PEX stuff that can be a bit more generic.  So there could be a PEOz group that puts a version together and maybe it is developed by a group rather than an individual.  Maybe it has some requirements like "5 acres" and certain climate ranges.   Of course, maybe rather than limiting it to oz, it could be rubber stamped to a bunch of other places that are bit hot and deserty - in which case, maybe it should be PED for "desert" instead of PEOz.

I guess I'm saying that if we can make PEA, surely there are other programs that could be a big generic also.  

 
Phoenix Blackdove
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paul wheaton wrote:Maybe it has some requirements like "5 acres" and certain climate ranges.   Of course, maybe rather than limiting it to oz, it could be rubber stamped to a bunch of other places that are bit hot and deserty - in which case, maybe it should be PED for "desert" instead of PEOz.

I guess I'm saying that if we can make PEA, surely there are other programs that could be a big generic also.  



I like the idea of using climate analogues for broadening PEX.

For example, PEM for Mediterranean climates (the climate I live in is coastal Mediterranean - California is the best US analogue), PEST for Sub-tropical (the climate I grew up in/most of the Eastern States down to about Sydney - I believe Florida and similar places would match it?), PED for Desert/Arid... PEU for urban environments could be an interesting one, given there are urban centres in every climatic zone.

Knowing one's climate analogue is a valuable tool when designing using permaculture methods.

I think climate-based PEX could be a handy, low-stress, fun way for people to "try out that permaculture thing". It might even cut down on people choosing inappropriate design elements for their climate region if a Badge only lists things that are appropriate for where they live - such as hugelkultur in Montana-like climates, sunken beds or wicking beds with overhead summer shade in Mediterranean climates, and so on.
 
paul wheaton
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Of course, to develop all the other PEXes, we first need to finish PEP.   And the more help we can get, the better progress we can make.

 
Posts: 47
Location: North Central North Carolina Zone 7B
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Not enough PEP in your step?  I'll wait for the dawn of understanding, until then I'll concentrate on my Zing. ;-)


paul wheaton wrote:Of course, to develop all the other PEXes, we first need to finish PEP.   And the more help we can get, the better progress we can make.

 
Posts: 18
Location: South East Queensland, Australia
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Mate if this goes ahead that would be grouse.
 
pollinator
Posts: 1403
Location: cool climate, Blue Mountains, Australia
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The post was about plants and all I found in the answer were weird abbreviations! Sorry, I don't want to learn yet another foreign language. Here is a more straightforward input. The topic on plants which are not suitable because they are weeds is a very discussed topic and not everyone agrees on whether willows (or other weeds) are bad or not. We dug out blackberries only to find that the best soil is under the blackberry which is supposedly so bad! have a look into Peter Andrews, his book is fantastic on how to restore the Australian landscape.
 
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