• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Anne Miller
  • Mike Haasl
  • Pearl Sutton
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • r ranson
  • Burra Maluca
  • Joseph Lofthouse
master gardeners:
  • jordan barton
  • Leigh Tate
  • Carla Burke
gardeners:
  • Greg Martin
  • Jay Angler
  • John F Dean

The long way to our dream in Thailand

 
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi all,

as posted before I want to set up a tread that can be later reflecting the history and as a memorandum that I want to share.

Introduction:

2002 I met my husband as he came for a job break from Thailand.
He (Will) was offshore worker and I had a pa tong go stand (Thai cookies) in east Pattaya.

2006 we moved together and my husband climbed the ranks in his job
2012 we finally married and our love was growing till the point that we needed to find a better way to spend our life together.
I told him I wanted a Farm he told me he has relatives in the Netherlands who run Greenhouses.

So the Plan came together one by one.

But it was anything as I thought. There was not just "buying a farm"
Will, meanwhile offshore consultant and always looking for perfection explained that we need to prepare and we will start with what we want.

The first points to learn and understand were:
- what is modern farming
- how we can make it sustainable by keeping it bio and organic
- how can it provide a living
- what need to be done first

and so Will created the Masterplan and it will be 10 years of hard learning and investment.
I thought "That's it, lets skip that idea"
but then Will told me about his dream:
Always at Home, the silence of that little village where he grew up, farming and animals around him and I found out he has much more knowledge about modern farming than I expected. For me my Will was a kind of Seaman.

2014 was the year all became a face and I was completely stunned, no clue what Will was on about and what happened in our backyard.
But it was the first time we really built something together and we could feel it was not only love involved, it was also something like there were 2 people with one mind.

I just did what Will told me to do and he had all patience to explain me what i was doing...



4.JPG
It started with a tank full of Red Claw Crayfish and PvC Pipes where will drilled holes in.
It started with a tank full of Red Claw Crayfish and PvC Pipes where will drilled holes in.
2.JPG
and I had to clean these holes still no idea what he was talking about
and I had to clean these holes still no idea what he was talking about
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
And then the first aquaponic system was built..
It was so amazing, I combined fish and vegetables and it worked.

From one moment my life was not as dull anymore when Will was out for a job.
I had a day routine, something that demanded and challenged me...
Within weeks I found out that Red Claw Crayfish are smart animals. When I came to feed them they came out of their hides and raised their claws, "me first me first"

my love for aquaponics was born and I realized, a rice farmer is way behind what Will was offering me to learn, and I did.
16.1.JPG
and after a few days I was the manager of my own backyard aquaponics farm... I still didn't know what I was doing but I could put some seeds into the pots... well what to say more?
and after a few days I was the manager of my own backyard aquaponics farm... I still didn't know what I was doing but I could put some seeds into the pots... well what to say more?
31.jpg
and suddenly I was living at home with an abundance of veggies.. growing on water and faster than I have ever seen...
and suddenly I was living at home with an abundance of veggies.. growing on water and faster than I have ever seen...
21767042_1464695736981741_1899272855_o.jpg
and the murky water became clear, I could see my crayfish the first time, studied their behavior, how they eat and even realized they know me, leaving the hides when I came with food.
and the murky water became clear, I could see my crayfish the first time, studied their behavior, how they eat and even realized they know me, leaving the hides when I came with food.
 
gardener
Posts: 869
Location: Piedmont 7a
302
2
hugelkultur trees woodworking
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello See, welcome aboard!  Love your aquaponics setup, and the crawfish as well.  Nice work!  Great posts.  
 
gardener
Posts: 4371
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
1619
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Welcome to permies, Srikham! We're all about learning new things and finding ways to grow food and be kind to the planet at the same time!

What do you feed your crawfish? Are there ways you can use the inedible parts of the plants you're growing (like the roots of the lettuce plants) to produce food for your crawfish? Possibly by creating a "worm compost system"? (also called vermicomposting)

I totally appreciate the huge amount of learning that has happened so far - keep up the good work!
 
master gardener
Posts: 2705
1048
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Welcome!  
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you all for the replies.
@Jay Angler, this is a backyard system in the beginning time 2014 and we are feeding regular food bought from the shelf and give some other veggies like peas, ground carrots, minced meat as treat.

Basically Red Claw Crayfish is eating anything especially when its decaying. They are the most easy going animals I ever had.

The system was growing and so my addiction.
Always when Will was abroad looked via google the possibilities that aquaponic had.

I also wanted more variety and bigger plants which couldn't be grown in the pipes.
Roots were blocking the pipes or the taller plants simply were falling out of the holes.

When will came back from his jobs I had always a wish list and he did never hesitate to build it for me.

He is that kind of looking, thinking and doing personality and with every part he built, he is going into each detail from 'what happens when' to 'how can that be improved.'
I had moment where I thought we have to stop because of the costs, until that day came where he explained me seriously that he prefers to invest in this learning system before he would send me to school where books telling me stuff and 10 years later I would find these books for a fraction of the price in a car boot sale.

Practical beats the theory and an University would cost 10 fold the price beside with my basic school education as a rice farmer's daughter I would reach my limits...

we reached 2015 and our limits but for Will it was just the beginning...
about 6000 US$ was spent till that time..



13.JPG
Pipes can be a hassle, they need always be balanced and it takes a lot of effort to get the water levels equal.
Pipes can be a hassle, they need always be balanced and it takes a lot of effort to get the water levels equal.
26828584_1575124369272210_1695119505_o.jpg
Because the Crays were breeding like mad which told us we are on the right way the ammonia levels were raising. Will built some ebb flood grow beds to get more nitrifying bacteria in the system.
Because the Crays were breeding like mad which told us we are on the right way the ammonia levels were raising. Will built some ebb flood grow beds to get more nitrifying bacteria in the system.
26829712_1576799472438033_2012120068_o.jpg
and for tall plants he built a dutch bucket system for me..
and for tall plants he built a dutch bucket system for me..
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So we continued and experimented through all options and taking chances to improve where we could.
Will always said that the money is not an issue here but will becoming a serious issue if something goes wrong later when we build a commercial farm.

The price was now doubled by all the new stuff and improvements we did.. 12.000$ was reached.. I began to worry again but Will motivated me and showed me a financial plan of the agricultural university in Rayon.
Seeing it with this eyes I thing we have more options, more experience already than any student can gather...
26829494_1575126975938616_363896081_o.jpg
We tried during 2025 -2027 all kind of plants and Will brought from wherever he was working abroad seeds home, many of them I haven't seen in Thailand before. Spring onions are great for aquaponics but making the water "smelly"
We tried during 2025 -2027 all kind of plants and Will brought from wherever he was working abroad seeds home, many of them I haven't seen in Thailand before. Spring onions are great for aquaponics but making the water "smelly"
27744397_1600049463446367_308016419_o.jpg
the system grew and got extended where was space, the small filter drums had to be changed to bigger ones, more fish tanks came under the ebb flow beds bigger pump and oxygen supply and so on
the system grew and got extended where was space, the small filter drums had to be changed to bigger ones, more fish tanks came under the ebb flow beds bigger pump and oxygen supply and so on
IMG-20180711-WA0000.jpg
shading had to be built to protect the sensible plants against the harsh sun of Thailand and to keep the water temperature under control
shading had to be built to protect the sensible plants against the harsh sun of Thailand and to keep the water temperature under control
IMG-20181017-WA0003.jpg
but all in all we had made a good progress and started to select breeding animals like this one of 210 grams.. A monster...
but all in all we had made a good progress and started to select breeding animals like this one of 210 grams.. A monster...
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
2017 we were at the point that red claw crayfish doesn't provide enough fertilizer so we needed to get another "Joker" into the game.

So we bought Tilapias, easy going, taking a punch and don't mind to live in cubes.

They need the contact to each other (cuddle effect) so they not experience a stunned growth because of the size of the fish tanks

but more fish creates also more solids and we had to find a solution what to do with all the fish poop..
I tried it around our Garden and gave bags away to the neighbors...

The next step for our planned farm was due:
Zero waste management...

We got feedback that were more than promising, the entire Village was queuing for this super fertilizer and our garden became a Jungle.

Should this be the first money our fish will produce when it comes to our commercial farm?
I can say, sure it is..
36696371_1763942587057053_1086210281564012544_n.jpg
Fingerlings are in whole Thailand easy to by
Fingerlings are in whole Thailand easy to by
36652875_1763277053790273_7638877516672794624_n.jpg
and the cubes were perfect for them, they were eating happy and grew in 7 month to 800 grams plate size
and the cubes were perfect for them, they were eating happy and grew in 7 month to 800 grams plate size
received_1611753705609276.jpeg
Our house was becoming a jungle in the middle of a city
Our house was becoming a jungle in the middle of a city
received_1611754925609154.jpeg
even wedding couples popped up and made pictures in front of our blooming chicken flower vine (I don't know the Name but that's what we call it in Thai)
even wedding couples popped up and made pictures in front of our blooming chicken flower vine (I don't know the Name but that's what we call it in Thai)
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...so we reached on our learning by doing way the year 2019,

beside we tried a copious amount of seeds we had to admit that we have reached our limits with this system,
it was faulty the pipes worked as a heater and we couldn't control the water in a way we are supposed to do when the farm would be reality.

I thought I have learned enough but Will as perfectionist said only that it was time to build an exact simulation our planned farm as small system in our backyard and see how that would be working.
Beside this he wanted to go an uncommon way to increase the crayfish production and his revolutionist's heart start beating, all what we had learned should be implemented in a basic way.
- Using Gravity wherever possible
- trying to raise Red Claw Crayfish also in grow beds
- increasing the sizes of the ebb flood grow beds and get them in a better position with sufficient sunshine
- think big when it comes to piping
- simulate a 50 micron drum filter instead of a swirl filter to see ho much solids will be caught and how fast the ebb flood grow beds will be building up anaerobe zones
- using a 10000 GPH pump for more turnover

meanwhile my 2 nephews and my brother have been joining us as they could see that this way of farming will be the future and they left with the goodwill of their parents and my father the hard labor in the rice fields to learn all about aquaponics.
My Aunty, once laughing about the idea of Will comes regularly the 250 miles to visit us and at the begin I will never forget her face and her words:
"Is THAT the salad we seeded last visit about 4 weeks ago? It is much bigger and the plants are more equal than growing it 2 month on the field. Are you sure it is not poisonous??"
Beside this she has seen veggies that she never heard of in her life but when she "goolged" for Artichoke she was changed completely and pushed everyone not to give up and learn "ponponic" which she still can't pronounce right.
20190302_163120.jpg
The pipe system has been exchanged to a deep water grow bed with oxigen supply for the trial to raise Red Claw Crayfish under the floating rafts
The pipe system has been exchanged to a deep water grow bed with oxigen supply for the trial to raise Red Claw Crayfish under the floating rafts
IMG-20190516-WA0001.jpg
the ebb flood grow beds were taken down in their dark spot and moved to the sunshine and made bigger for more bio filtration surface. This shall help to increase the ammonia to nitrate exchange.
the ebb flood grow beds were taken down in their dark spot and moved to the sunshine and made bigger for more bio filtration surface. This shall help to increase the ammonia to nitrate exchange.
20190330_182231.jpg
a 50 micron filter bucket shall simulate the planned drum filter for our commercial system later. Main goal is how quick do anaerobe zones build up in ebb flood grow beds by using 50 microns filter mesh.
a 50 micron filter bucket shall simulate the planned drum filter for our commercial system later. Main goal is how quick do anaerobe zones build up in ebb flood grow beds by using 50 microns filter mesh.
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
and so we were reaching the today,

we hit huge sucesses but also a few drawbacks and now I agree it was worth every $$ (or Thai Baht) spent before we even thought to get land and build our farm.
about 25000 $ have been invested and still its only a fraction what 10 years of University would have costed.

We have a pretty good list of Veggies that will make a coin and grow huge in Aquaponics and as most are non Thai we will definitely standing off the crowd.

But there is Will, the perfectionist.
Zero waste management was the next Program but we were running that only a short time.
We were breeding Black Soldier Flies and making the larvae high protein fish food.
Will's Idea was that we are sure having a lot of bio waste and just compost would not evaluate this beside composting releases a huge amount greenhouse gasses.

The small Black Soldier Fly composer was doing an absolute perfect job BUT it is not suitable having Black Soldier Flies in our Village between all neighbors who think flies bring diseases... Black Soldier Flies DO NOT, they are even suitable for human consumption.

For our Farm they will be in the future the Managers that pay for working for us and they will be a substitute for fish meal that comes out of the over fished oceans.

a few pics of our favorite Veggies to complete the story of the past and then I will continue whenever news are coming up and so create a little e-book in this forum. I hope you liked it so far and I am always glad for good and negative comments.
YOUR Critics and Input now could still avoid a financial disaster when we are starting our commercial farm..

20190330_182417.jpg
We have now also in integrated baby station for our red claw crayfish where berried mothers waiting the birth safe from others
We have now also in integrated baby station for our red claw crayfish where berried mothers waiting the birth safe from others
20190330_182257.jpg
The membrane air compressor is changed to a vortex blower because oxygen supply is the stand and fall of Aquaponics, the more the better
The membrane air compressor is changed to a vortex blower because oxygen supply is the stand and fall of Aquaponics, the more the better
20191219_163806.jpg
my brother checks his "dinner" and because the tilapia have no muddy taste as common even the neighbors coming from time to time asking for a "Sunday roast"
my brother checks his "dinner" and because the tilapia have no muddy taste as common even the neighbors coming from time to time asking for a "Sunday roast"
IMG-20190815-WA0004.jpg
there are always bits and pieces to do and meanwhile my nephews and brother are a unbeatable team
there are always bits and pieces to do and meanwhile my nephews and brother are a unbeatable team
IMG-20190814-WA0002.jpg
we made a trial for LED Grow light to bring in but I guess in a commercial Greenhouse its waste of energy. But looks nice ;-)
we made a trial for LED Grow light to bring in but I guess in a commercial Greenhouse its waste of energy. But looks nice ;-)
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Now that my husband is stuck in Taiwan but thank god he still is on a job I miss him but its never getting dull.
He build me and my family a future and even now where the shops are closed we have an abundant supply of fresh crispy salads and chard.
plus fish and crayfish.

Last week a German restaurant owner who feeds the people in Pattaya who have no job anymore due to the COVID situation we could enlighten our sad hearts by donating 50 Tilapia for 200 meals.
We got so many thanks in return, so much happy children's eyes that even my brother found tears.

In about 3 years we will  go commercial but there are still lots of things to do...

The permaculture Gardens and Food Forest plan is still in the children's shoes even these are essential at the begin of our build up and here I hope of your help and tips so that this story which I started here in permies.com will going on as a success story we all created together.
20191219_164421.jpg
after a certain time the system was matured and all started to grow as expected. Chards and Mustard with a taste that is far from this world, so clean and fresh.
after a certain time the system was matured and all started to grow as expected. Chards and Mustard with a taste that is far from this world, so clean and fresh.
IMG-20190711-WA0001.jpg
Salads as much we like, many of them from far away countries others local, crispy and fast growing
Salads as much we like, many of them from far away countries others local, crispy and fast growing
IMG-20200421-WA0000.jpg
Out donation for the starving Thai People in Pattaya. Only one day supply for 200 meals, but also a proof that there are lots of huge fishes grown in our fish tanks or that this system works as I posted here.
Out donation for the starving Thai People in Pattaya. Only one day supply for 200 meals, but also a proof that there are lots of huge fishes grown in our fish tanks or that this system works as I posted here.
IMG-20200413-WA0031.jpg
The German Pub and Restaurant 3Ways Pattaya provides every day 200 meals in this hard times but the queue is mostly 400-1000 people. That is where our fish went to.
The German Pub and Restaurant 3Ways Pattaya provides every day 200 meals in this hard times but the queue is mostly 400-1000 people. That is where our fish went to.
IMG-20200427-WA0017.jpg
And i am so happy I could do my share thanks to my beloved husband Will. My Kisses going to Taiwan where he is stuck and I hope he can be home soon so we can continue our dream.
And i am so happy I could do my share thanks to my beloved husband Will. My Kisses going to Taiwan where he is stuck and I hope he can be home soon so we can continue our dream.
 
Jay Angler
gardener
Posts: 4371
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
1619
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Srikham Hesenius wrote:

He build me and my family a future and even now where the shops are closed we have an abundant supply of fresh crispy salads and chard.
plus fish and crayfish.  

See, this is the most important part. Designing a "resilient" system so that if some disaster strikes, you and your family and hopefully your community will still have food, is dependent on the system you develop being self-sustaining. A farm which sells only one product can be lost if a disease strikes that one plant, but a farm which grows a variety of foods with different nutrients in each, can provide a healthy diet, and if one crop fails, other crops will fill the gap.
 
Posts: 27
2
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That's a nice life-long project you have running there! Agree strongly on the point of doing instead of going to a university.

We are also in Thailand (near pala-u in prachuap) and have just started on a 10rai plot of land. Quiet the challenge between farmers which love their roundup (paraquat). But not giving up. Going to make it as perma as the culture here allows.

Wishing the best on your future plans. Will be following your thread.
 
gardener
Posts: 2468
Location: Zone 7b/8a Temperate Humid Subtropical, Eastern NC, US
877
forest garden fish trees foraging books earthworks food preservation cooking bee woodworking homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Srikham Hesenius wrote:



The colors on it are amazing!

And I thought this one was colorful when I found it the other day.
20200424_131854.jpg
Crayfish I found in the backyard
Crayfish I found in the backyard
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jay Angler wrote:A farm which sells only one product can be lost if a disease strikes that one plant, but a farm which grows a variety of foods with different nutrients in each, can provide a healthy diet, and if one crop fails, other crops will fill the gap.



Here I see myself blessed that I had the luck to marry a foreigner who is traveling the world.
I have a world of seeds from the same tropical zones than Thailand and more from at least subtropical that will also thrive here.
If only 10% of all trees that germinated and grow here well will bear fruits we will be way off the crowd of any market in Thailand.

We can be a botanical pioneer and even make an income with visitors and as nursery..

Every "room" my beloved Will has planned has many doors, any loss due to bad quality or market related, will finally make a plus.
(Like bio waste turned into fish food or into a high end fertilizer that you need to delude 10000:1 so strong it is)

I still can't believe what a person "supposed to be sea man" puts up as a gardener, because he is not looking at the way it is been done, he is trying and developing ways he sees it
and when it is successfully completed, he cuts the costs that it will work for our dream.

One thing I learned is, experience and skills might block opinions and chances to go new ways because its too easy said: "we have always done it like that"
right or wrong can only tell who starts from scratch and does things different just for his own learning progress, using his individual view and logic.
20190330_182345.jpg
This photo he made as I was stunned looking at our new "Baby Station" it was implemented in the system so there will be no shock to move the craylings wherever I want to.
This photo he made as I was stunned looking at our new "Baby Station" it was implemented in the system so there will be no shock to move the craylings wherever I want to.
20190330_182616.jpg
The way how Will handles gravity and just extends room when needed, always focusing on the costs but more that it is efficient. We have every week a BBQ with friends and we are famous for our piles of crayfish on the table.
The way how Will handles gravity and just extends room when needed, always focusing on the costs but more that it is efficient. We have every week a BBQ with friends and we are famous for our piles of crayfish on the table.
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have made the first 60cm (2 ft) with my tree collection, and still there is no news when my husband will be back from his job in Taiwan.
No relief will hang off 14 days in quarantine.

But I feed him every day with my successes and via WhatsApp we see us but the hugs are impossible to give.

Will says I do a great job and the trees are looking healthy.
The start of our planned permaculture garden and edible jungle...


Custard-Apple.jpg
[Thumbnail for Custard-Apple.jpg]
Big-red-Mango.jpg
[Thumbnail for Big-red-Mango.jpg]
Red-Mango.jpg
[Thumbnail for Red-Mango.jpg]
IMG-20200529-WA0016.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG-20200529-WA0016.jpg]
 
Jay Angler
gardener
Posts: 4371
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
1619
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm jealous - custard apple is delicious! I *really* don't think I could grow it here without a really serious greenhouse.

I hear how much you're missing your husband, but hang in there - at least Taiwan is one of the countries that are keeping people fairly safe from this virus, unlike many others. The trip from there to home will be the riskiest part!
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
True @Jay Angler,
the custard apple is especially one of a kind.
My husband did not like the fruit because of its appearance.
One day I bought one and fed it to him ready peeled and he was asking what kind of delicious fruit it is.
I have missed one seed and he was spitting it into one of the flower pots outside where it germinated.
Now this little tree get my daily "hugs" as this is a part of my beloved husband.
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi growers,

my beloved Will seems getting bored in his free time and I am busting with excitement.

We spoke a few weeks now about the test system and somehow the leaning effect do not outweigh the electric costs anymore.

I still thinking back before I met Will and there were times where my family went into the forests around our rice fields gathering, wild growing veggies, Crickets, Grasshoppers or shooting some rats.
"Rats???" you might think, but I must correct you, not the ones that roam your garbage bins, fat rice field rats which we shot in the night with our air rifles and still rat is one of the most expensive meats in Thailand.
But when there is no money in the house? All the above covered the protein needs for free, so basically we did permaculture before without knowing the name for it.
And with this in mind, the Aquaponic system is using too much money.

back to topics: We decided to give the Aquaponics system to a friend who is often visiting us and dreams of his own system in his backyard. So we can eliminate the last mistakes that system has and while supporting him we can still learn.

The important result is, we got space to prepare further for our Dream.
The Farm and the permaculture Jungle...
... and like my Will is, he started ordering all kind of seeds worldwide from shops and his friends he made during his jobs abroad just to stand "off the crowd".

On our Land we will find beside the common Thai stuff also exotics from around the globe and I just started to put all seeds we have so far into pots.
Some trees from seeds we started last year are now in 10 gallon pots changed and a few are successfully grafted.

hence I had quite a busy time the past few weeks, so I could not make some updates here.

I guess I should start with our List what we have so far collected and I am waiting with overloaded excitement that the seeds germinate.

You won't believe how I was screaming as just after 1 day pre-soaking and 2 days in the pots the Baobabs (Adansonia Za) said "Hello" to me. 6 out of 10 popped up even the seeds were almost 2 years (cold) stored.

But here the list with the request to you all: "Do you see anything that would be missing in our collection?"
(I am aware that there are a few specimens, that might not do in our tropical climate, and others might have been stored for too long, but who not tries can not win)







2-A-C.jpg
[Thumbnail for 2-A-C.jpg]
3-D-J.jpg
[Thumbnail for 3-D-J.jpg]
4-J-N.jpg
[Thumbnail for 4-J-N.jpg]
5-N-R.jpg
[Thumbnail for 5-N-R.jpg]
6-R-Z.jpg
[Thumbnail for 6-R-Z.jpg]
 
pollinator
Posts: 1233
Location: Chicago/San Francisco
186
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Srikham

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. Your nation is very different from the US where lots of us live and your energy is wonderful! <g>

But a question: Is one rat enough for one meal for two people? And is it really the most expensive meat still in your area? That is very interesting.


Cheers,
Rufus
 
Jay Angler
gardener
Posts: 4371
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
1619
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Srikham, you've made an excellent observation - systems which require a lot of input of "human made" materials and "artificial energy" are often not sustainable. Sometimes they provide learning as your system has, sometimes they provide a specific supplement that isn't easy to acquire elsewhere, sometimes they are a valuable stepping stone, but sometimes the smartest thing is to move forward toward long term sustainability as soon as possible! In the meantime, you've had lots of good food to eat and share.

I'm in the wrong eco-system to comment on the plants you've pictured, but if you've got the time, could you please add numbers to each and type the name and number as a list and post it? There's simply no way I can read the names under the pictures ( print is too small), and I would do so out of interest even if most will absolutely not grow on my land! People familiar with the plants may be able to figure them out, but I just couldn't. Thanks!
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Jay,

When I click on each picture it will extend to readable size, is that only possible because I am the one who posted it?
Will you please be so kind and check this out?

To the Aquaponics system,

definitely we will build it later on our commercial farm because it has the smallest footprint/plant ratio.
I can grow on 10000 sqm (2.47 acres) easy 160.000 lettuces a month by reducing the water consumption to only 10% of that what a farmer on the field uses.
As a closed system it will not pollute the environment by over fertilization of the ground water.

Beside this it will produce 4500 Kg Fish per month
3000 Kg bio fertilizer per month
and 2000 Kg of fish food by using black soldier flies for the bio waste

It is another way and might not be as self-sustaining than a permaculture but the world needs to think froward (even aquaponics is over 1000 years old)
We cannot destroy more rainforests to make more fields, we have to use the farmlands for more density farming.
The mankind is living on credit by mother nature and still the world population is exploding further, so the world overshoot day will come earlier.

Permaculture cannot do it alone (but it will let us breathe clean air again), some technology needs to be integrated and balanced to return from red to black numbers in mother natures credit system.

There were 5 mass extinctions on this world (called the "big 5") and unfortunately the human race is due to make it the "big 6" if we are not making drastic changes.

18,618,000,000,000 square-meter is the for humans inhabitable part of the world
7.800,000,000 People are at present on the world

That equals: 2387 square-meter per person. This is a clear Number that tells us we will not survive with permaculture only.
We need food factories and the permaculture needs to be arranged more dense.
1. for more oxygen production
2. to cope with the bio waste (Mainly fish manure and black soldier fly frass) that these food factories produce
3. to stop that the world overshoot days lasts only 3/4 of a year
4. better control of any diseases as they have a harder time to spread in a healthy permaculture.

Already now we can see that even more sophisticated medicine knowledge makes a virus like COVID 19 (a very tiny part of mother nature) running out of control.
The modern medicine could sure safe "some lives more" compared to the Hongkong flu in 1968 where my husband was hit by as a 6 year old boy.
But can the medicine keep the pace in development with mother natures defense systems, when we are facing a "COVID 25" where the world population has reached 8.1 Billion in Numbers?

What I want to say is:
When the Mass extinction Nr 6 is at the doorstep there will be sure a lot survivors living a rural life on Permaculture farms but when the humans pulling more at one string and give the world the green heart back there will even be more survivors because they live a healthier life everywhere..
I hope that soon even the most rich and industrial orientated man will grab a shuffle and say that every unused square-meter of dirt needs a tree standing in and grass under it.
 
Jay Angler
gardener
Posts: 4371
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
1619
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Srikham Hesenius wrote:

When I click on each picture it will extend to readable size, is that only possible because I am the one who posted it?
Will you please be so kind and check this out?

Yes, you're right - a click did the job although on my computer it replaces the whole thread with the enlarged picture, but I just have to push the back button to restore things. Thanks! (I'm locally known as Jay Dinosaur as I'm *really* not that good with computers!)
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Rufus Laggren wrote:Srikham

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. Your nation is very different from the US where lots of us live and your energy is wonderful! <g>

But a question: Is one rat enough for one meal for two people? And is it really the most expensive meat still in your area? That is very interesting.


Cheers,
Rufus



Hi Rufus

here is a Video that might make your mouth watering.



Rats are very special and we Isaan People put a lot of effort into the cooking or preparation on the BBQ.
To shoot a good size field rat isn't that easy, as they are still rats well known for their smartness,
despite they are breeding in great numbers, but as fast they are breeding as fast they are eaten ;-)

I must admit, my Will needed a long time until he tried the first one but now its part of his groceries if he is lucky and find some on the market.
To buy some you have to be early up and still need some luck that the shop isn't sold out by 7am.
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Update,

more and more seeds arrived from all around the world and we have given our Aquaponics System to a German friend in Thailand, because the running costs do not verify the learning effect after 6 years in operation and more space is needed for all these little trees that just outgrow our backyard.

But trees are the essential part when we commence our farm end of this year after 6 years of intensive planning an preparation.
My Will starts with the water management, trenching and I do the fruit tree plantings.

As he left to work in February last year, we had just started our collection and all trees were small.
Each a picture from February 2020 and January 2021



IMG-20200618-WA0007.jpg
February 2020
February 2020
IMG-20201129-WA0006.jpg
January 2021
January 2021
 
Posts: 48
Location: Udon Thani, Thailand
16
duck forest garden chicken building solar homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi K. Srikham. I've just found your fascinating thread (I posted mine in The Tropics) and look forward to reading about the next part of your farming adventure.

I was talking to my wife recently about doing an aqua/hydro system in order to grow non tropical varieties of vegetables, but currently don't know where to start. We visited a chap in Bangkok a few years ago, but he only seemed to be interested in big money clients. I think it would be of great benefit to many people, if at some point in the future you could author a Thai/SEA-specific publication enabling people here (we live in Udon!) to build their own small-scale, cost-effective systems. I would gladly give my own time and expertise to help with the design and packaging if you did think it a worthwhile idea.

Otherwise, I don't know where you guys are with regard to living arrangements, but if you do find yourselves in Udon, it'd be great to meet up.

Jason & Bee from Udon Thanee!
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Khun Jason and Khun Bee,

Visiting the guy in Bangkok was also for my husband a waste of time.
His roofgarden was overgrown with tomatoes but I haven't seen much fruiting, so I doubt any reflection of his professionalism which is his web page is made up.
As we were asking for standart Aquaponics stuff like netpots and other things he needed to order themselves.
As said, see it, done it and never come back there. (my husband's words)

We are still in Chonburi but our plan is to start end of the year about 30Km from Udon. So most likely we could meet easily.

We will stay in contact.

Srikham
 
Jason Manning
Posts: 48
Location: Udon Thani, Thailand
16
duck forest garden chicken building solar homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Look forward to seeing you guys once you've escaped 'Dodge'. Hope this year is easier than last year for you guys.

J&B
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Lets call this reply on my post "a common mistake"

based is this mistake on:

- My impatience
- my tightness
- I want to do more than I have space and time

Result and what happened?

Ok here we go.
As I said my Will's contacts all around the world lets come seeds of fruit trees I have never heard of and off cause, when another envelope arrives it's like Christmas eve.
Impatient I rip open the delivery and inspect the seeds from all sides and then I my mind is already the plan which pot might suit these new arrivals, or should I pre soak them seeds for 24 hrs, or if they are hard, should I give them a good scratch?
Whatever I do the next 2 days the seeds are sure in a pot of soil...

Then the waiting starts, well knowing that some seeds even need a year to germinate.

Impatience: Soon a new delivery comes and another one and so on. Some of the earlier delivered seeds germinated others didn't.....

Tightness: The pots where nothing came have good soil mix, what a waste and the seeds didn't come up till now.
                 So instead buying a cheap bag of new soil I mix the pots with a single bag of new soil.
                ...and as the devil wants it, the disturbance made the seeds that not came popping up between the new seedlings and finally I cannot say anymore which is which plant.

Finally my Backyards and front garden is overgrown and I have trees I never have seen in my life or heard of at all...

Brilliant, that me.....

Before my Will returns from his project I have to fiddle some of the trees out and also leaf finder apps online are not that much of a help as they have always multiple choice answers of more trees I never heard off...

               
IMG-20210209-WA0016.jpg
Ok what is this little fellow that came up between my Spanish Limes? Could it be a Mountain Papaya?
Ok what is this little fellow that came up between my Spanish Limes? Could it be a Mountain Papaya?
IMG-20200617-WA0006.jpg
We actually have 6 different Baobabs but of 5 I know where they are, is he the missing link to Nr 6?
We actually have 6 different Baobabs but of 5 I know where they are, is he the missing link to Nr 6?
IMG-20200803-WA0001.jpg
Best gruess from a friend in India. Who the heck are you little fellow?
Best gruess from a friend in India. Who the heck are you little fellow?
IMG-20201213-WA0018.jpg
You are supposed to be a cactus? No No No
You are supposed to be a cactus? No No No
IMG-20210102-WA0018.jpg
I killed about 1000 African Peach seeds and they were NOT in a drinking cup, now it will grow???
I killed about 1000 African Peach seeds and they were NOT in a drinking cup, now it will grow???
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I hope I am not alone with my above post and others are going the same way of impatience and tightness. LOL
 
master pollinator
Posts: 3312
Location: Officially Zone 7b, according to personal obsevations I live in 7a, SW Tennessee
1256
3
forest garden foraging books food preservation cooking fiber arts bee medical herbs
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
No, honey, you are not alone!
 
Posts: 55
Location: PA, USA Zone 7a
29
kids forest garden books chicken cooking bee
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This is an awesome and inspiring project...I can't wait to see how your farm turns out. And I do like that you turned your little place in the city into a jungle...that vine with the heart-shaped leaves and purple-white flowers is some kind of Aristolochia--it's called Dutchman's Pipe here in US. My grandma used to grow a more temperate kind that covered her entire porch, and we used to pretend we were in the jungle :)
 
See Hes
Posts: 84
Location: Chon Buri Thailand Zone 11-12
29
forest garden fish plumbing chicken pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Folks

I actually thought that only time and patience will dictate mother natures clock but surprisingly its more than overwhelming.

Despite the fact that our seeds came from all around the world and I had many times no clue what I was planting I did fast realize that the www. isn't sometimes right at all..
Thanks to the "pressure" of my beloved husband to learn as much botanical Names possible, it's like speaking another insider language and many people helped from all around the world to get me on the right path.

But also a lot of misinformation you can get with asking google. What in your garden grows slow might be weed in my garden *giggle*  
In the Web you got told that a tree is very slow growing and after 1 year in the pot you realize that it just hit the rain gutter of the house and makes your heart bleeding thinking of pruning.

PRUNING???
I want a food Jungle and there has pruning no meaning hasn't it?

In a Jungle the pests should do the work, as they are very good in pruning and stunning the growth -at least until the "good ones" spot them and coming the 1000s or even breeding in 100.000's until the pest is gone again.

Natural cycles with free pruning using "the cheapest Freelancer in the world". Hire and Fire or let's say:  come, stay and get eaten.

Yes. I lost a few trees already due to pests but as I said, they come from all around the world and there is naturally for some of them no place in Thailand.
When a bunch of our 6 Inch caterpillars can gnarl a 3 feet tree in one day down, then I would say the tree misses the right defense system it needs to stay.

And if this tree is even hiding them against the invasion of the "Good Ones" then I would expect that in a later stage I would grow an imbalance into my Jungle.  

RIP my little tree, we tried, we failed, we not try again. Simple as that. But do not throw the pot away, like Phoenix out of the ashes it could raise out of its roots again, stronger and with more stems even before.
Enough to feed the next invasion to branch out even more.. Mother Nature is incredible but has always her own opinions for who can stay and who not..

There are now as many as 120 different species growing and stand strong the climate, pests and diseases.
Sure too much to list all, so here a little walk through my backyard as an update how our trees perform.

I hope you like it and stay for more, I will update regularly.









IMG-20210315-WA0015.jpg
My whole pride is at the moment our Jacaratia mexicana or Maroon Tree. 1 inch per day growth. 1 out of 10 seeds came.
My whole pride is at the moment our Jacaratia mexicana or Maroon Tree. 1 inch per day growth. 1 out of 10 seeds came.
IMG-20210321-WA0006.jpg
The long one right are the Innocarpus fagifer or Tahitian Chestnuts I want to multiply by single node cuttings. They shall be planted in Massa as shade trees for our pig pastures.
The long one right are the Innocarpus fagifer or Tahitian Chestnuts I want to multiply by single node cuttings. They shall be planted in Massa as shade trees for our pig pastures.
IMG-20210320-WA0014.jpg
The land has various levels and raises in just 600m about 13 m. That high level is great for a Cactus area. Off cause fruiting ones from classic Opuntia or prickly pear to Cereus types.
The land has various levels and raises in just 600m about 13 m. That high level is great for a Cactus area. Off cause fruiting ones from classic Opuntia or prickly pear to Cereus types.
IMG-20210314-WA0008.jpg
Ashes on my head, Pines in a tropical Jungle? Well using a Araucaria bidwillii or Bunya Pine as outside Christmas tree? What's wrong with that?
Ashes on my head, Pines in a tropical Jungle? Well using a Araucaria bidwillii or Bunya Pine as outside Christmas tree? What's wrong with that?
IMG-20210227-WA0013.jpg
4 years ago I got a real oriental date, I was chewing on the pit for at least a half day, then I spit it on a pot with no expectations. A tree chooses his owner, male or female, who cares?
4 years ago I got a real oriental date, I was chewing on the pit for at least a half day, then I spit it on a pot with no expectations. A tree chooses his owner, male or female, who cares?
IMG-20201205-WA0005.jpg
Hey, is it you? Canarium Indicum or easy bite? Looks like it is one of my forgotten children, but still happy growing.
Hey, is it you? Canarium Indicum or easy bite? Looks like it is one of my forgotten children, but still happy growing.
IMG-20210212-WA0012.jpg
The Thai custard apple of one year can easy have a sip out of the rain gutter
The Thai custard apple of one year can easy have a sip out of the rain gutter
IMG-20210314-WA0013.jpg
Wouldn't my husband have spitted Pomegranate seeds everywhere I would not have about 25 of them babies rescued and potted.
Wouldn't my husband have spitted Pomegranate seeds everywhere I would not have about 25 of them babies rescued and potted.
IMG-20210223-WA0008.jpg
Hymenaea courbaril, Okeeee, I prefer the synonym name "Stinky toe tree"
Hymenaea courbaril, Okeeee, I prefer the synonym name "Stinky toe tree"
IMG-20210127-WA0013.jpg
Once I thought, for a slow growing Baobab Tree I will find always a place... But why google says slow growing??? Nine month is this one.
Once I thought, for a slow growing Baobab Tree I will find always a place... But why google says slow growing??? Nine month is this one.
IMG-20200819-WA0004.jpg
Monstera deliciosa, the only plant I have that never grows towards the sun, it prefers to grow into shade. The fruit is poisonous when unripe and healthy when ripe.
Monstera deliciosa, the only plant I have that never grows towards the sun, it prefers to grow into shade. The fruit is poisonous when unripe and healthy when ripe.
IMG-20201204-WA0002.jpg
Honestly, what's Dracaena cinnabari or Dragonblood trees are good for I don't know. I might not even see them in full beauty but a good add to my little cactus and desert world
Honestly, what's Dracaena cinnabari or Dragonblood trees are good for I don't know. I might not even see them in full beauty but a good add to my little cactus and desert world
 
Jason Manning
Posts: 48
Location: Udon Thani, Thailand
16
duck forest garden chicken building solar homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Everything either dies or grows like weeds here!

We are trying to stick with locally grown, local varieties (at least initially) as our soil is still a work in progress, and we are still losing trees due to building my new place sadly. Next year though...!

Can't wait to see your land thrive over the coming years.
gift
 
19 skiddable structures microdoc
will be released to subscribers in: soon!
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic