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How can I use a submersible trash pump to get water from muddy creek without pumping mud and crud?

 
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I have purchased a Tsurumi trash pump but I do not want the pump to sit on the bottom of the creek and pump mud and crud. I would also like it to be easily removable and have some sort of filter to screen creek water.

I was thinking about putting the trash pump in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid and many small holes cut all over the bucket, and suspending that from a 55 gallon plastic drum as a float (Trash pump weighs 30 lbs). Maybe wrap the 5 gallon bucket in window screen?

Is there an easier/better way to do this?
 
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Funny enough, this is almost exactly what my husband and I planned to do, except a plastic bin (with a lid) instead of a bucket, with holes and aluminum window screening.  My idea was to not have any holes near the bottom to keep from sucking up a lot of silt, but it will depend on how deep the water is.  We haven't had to do it yet, but will probably try it this year so we can fill a tank for a temporary shower and watering.  I hope you'll post an update when you have decided what to use, and let us know how it works.
 
pollinator
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This is pretty much the same approach most folks around here use, though with the intake for gas powered trash pumps.

Cleanest water is not much below the surface, so keeping the pump close to the float is best..
 
Steve Freeman
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D Nikolls wrote:This is pretty much the same approach most folks around here use, though with the intake for gas powered trash pumps.



I had thought about going with a gas powered trash pump but I decided not to because if the engine fails I have a useless pump. With an AC trash pump I can use any generator to power the pump. I have a tri-fuel generator (gasoline, propane, natural gas) so that adds a lot of versatility for me. Although, it would be easier to just run a hose in the creek with a float rather than floating a heavy trash pump.

 
Steve Freeman
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Norma Guy wrote:Funny enough, this is almost exactly what my husband and I planned to do, except a plastic bin (with a lid) instead of a bucket, with holes and aluminum window screening.  My idea was to not have any holes near the bottom to keep from sucking up a lot of silt, but it will depend on how deep the water is.  We haven't had to do it yet, but will probably try it this year so we can fill a tank for a temporary shower and watering.  I hope you'll post an update when you have decided what to use, and let us know how it works.



I will definitely post an update as I will be getting this done within the next week or 2.
 
Steve Freeman
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I will be pumping creek water to an elevated storage tank and need advice on how to filter the creek water prior to the storage tank to remove sediment/creek junk. I am using a submersible trash pump at the creek with 2" output hose. From the storage tank there will be a "T" with one side going to a demand pump feeding a Reverse Osmosis system, and the other side going out to the garden via gravity.

Maybe I need to do some sort of sand or diatomaceous earth filter? If anyone has a better way to do this whole system feel free to chime in.
 
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Around here, the creek water is typically filtered before the pump. It's also common to make a little lagoon for the pump to sit in, so that the worst of the sediment settles out before it reaches the pump.  We tend to avoid pumping water when the creek is super dirty.

 
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We are trying a ram pump for the first time.  The ram pump does not use any electricity, the flow is constant and can push water uphill 7 feet for every foot of drop in your creek.  We started using it to get water from the creek up the hill for the sheep. Now we are setting up a 55 gallon drum with a hose bib  connected to a 4 head manifold to run drip irrigation to water the gardens, sheep and  ducks. The drum will be continually filled by the ram pump and is set on high ground so all the watering will be gravity feed.
 
pollinator
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Ram pumps are ideal for constantly flowing creeks
 
Steve Freeman
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dawn west wrote:We are trying a ram pump for the first time.  The ram pump does not use any electricity, the flow is constant and can push water uphill 7 feet for every foot of drop in your creek.  We started using it to get water from the creek up the hill for the sheep. Now we are setting up a 55 gallon drum with a hose bib  connected to a 4 head manifold to run drip irrigation to water the gardens, sheep and  ducks. The drum will be continually filled by the ram pump and is set on high ground so all the watering will be gravity feed.



I'm familiar with ram pumps but I don't think it will work in this situation. Creek is prone to flooding and is about 8 feet below grade with steep sides. This is also why a basin on the creek bank is probably not the way for me to proceed. Sometimes it is high flow, sometimes not much flow to speak of. Pretty much always muddy looking water though.
 
Steve Freeman
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Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
Around here, the creek water is typically filtered before the pump. It's also common to make a little lagoon for the pump to sit in, so that the worst of the sediment settles out before it reaches the pump.  We tend to avoid pumping water when the creek is super dirty.



What methods are people using to filter water before the pump? It's a submersible pump so no intake hose.  I also would like to remove turbidity\sediment after the pump prior to storage tank.
 
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Steve Freeman wrote:I also would like to remove turbidity\sediment after the pump prior to storage tank.



Not sure this applies but I'll at least prompt some smackdowns!

In the woodshop a cyclone filter is an awesome way to remove bits from the air without a filter.  There is real science to making it super efficient, but you can also just ensure that the dust laden air comes in at the edge of a barrel and the outflow is from the top dead center - and that its air sealed.  Dust comes in and spins around, giving gravity a chance to get ahold of it and pull it out of the airflow.

And {just did an internet search ...} such things DO exist for water.  e.g. https://www.waterco.com.au/aquaculture/multicyclone

That one is for a closed, constantly circulating system (fish pond).  I'd imagine that you'd need a bigger one for a one-way system, and that you'd want to match it to the gpm of the pump and the total daily flow (want to keep that water spinning in the tank so it can do its centrifugal magic).  Ideally a cone-bottom tank, but anything round might do for a test.  I'm imaging two 55 barrels stacked might work nicely, or maybe a 250g round tank.  Taller is better than wider, to a point.
 
pollinator
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My last foster ran there water for the farm a spring that came out of a hillside.  

We cut a 50 gallon drum down a bit and buried in a foot deep in the collection area and then suspended the water intake about halfway up through the side of the remaining barrel.  We then put a metal grate screen over the top of the barrel and dammed the water up to where it would just course over the top of the barrel and down in.  This kept junk out of the water and allowed any fines, mud or silt to settle out below the pipe that fed water to the house.  Over the pipe end we had an old soup can with nail holes put into it as a final screening process.

In 20 years the only issue we ever had was we had to go out and dig the muck out of the bottom of the barrel every other year or so to keep it from building up around the water pipe to the house.
 
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Steve Freeman wrote:

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
Around here, the creek water is typically filtered before the pump. It's also common to make a little lagoon for the pump to sit in, so that the worst of the sediment settles out before it reaches the pump.  We tend to avoid pumping water when the creek is super dirty.



What methods are people using to filter water before the pump? It's a submersible pump so no intake hose.  I also would like to remove turbidity\sediment after the pump prior to storage tank.



Options
- Screen mesh acting as a water sieve.
- Porous block surround pool.
- Liquid Tornado/Cyclone Separator.  Lets water up into the pump and allows the dirty sludge fall below.
Here's one brand ... https://www.morrillinc.com/tornado-filter-irrigation-equipment
 
Steve Freeman
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I decided dealing with a submersible pump would be more difficult in my situation than a gas-powered pump so I returned it and got on semi-trash pump from Harbor Freight. Super great reviews.  No I'll just have to attach the intake hose to a 5 gallon bucket float and should be good. It has almost triple the output also. Now I still need to come up with a way to filter turbidity etc after the pump.
 
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I used to use 55 gall drum with a 4 inch pvc pipe in the middle filled with gravel  top fed the water and had it upflow to the exit pipe to the main tank
 
Timothy Brennan
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Should have been a little more specific what you are going to build is a upflow filter like what they use for Kio ponds I built mine 4 inch pvc in the center holes at the bottom of the pipe I put a 2 inch  gate valve at the bottom for clean out The top of the plastic drum I put six inches off the bottom supported with a pvc frame and drilled lot of holes just smaller then the gravel I was using. I fill the drum up six inches from the rim, I attached my outlet pipe at the top.  The barrel was mounted higher than my tank so it gravity fed to the main tank. water runs down the 4 inch center pipe and has to up flow through the gravel leaving the crap at the bottom.  This can also be done with sand for finer filtration but may slow the output some. The only maintenance was stir the gravel rinse and drain from the valve you installed at the bottom.
Good luck
Tim
 
Steve Freeman
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Timothy Brennan wrote:Should have been a little more specific what you are going to build is a upflow filter like what they use for Kio ponds I built mine 4 inch pvc in the center holes at the bottom of the pipe I put a 2 inch  gate valve at the bottom for clean out The top of the plastic drum I put six inches off the bottom supported with a pvc frame and drilled lot of holes just smaller then the gravel I was using. I fill the drum up six inches from the rim, I attached my outlet pipe at the top.  The barrel was mounted higher than my tank so it gravity fed to the main tank. water runs down the 4 inch center pipe and has to up flow through the gravel leaving the crap at the bottom.  This can also be done with sand for finer filtration but may slow the output some. The only maintenance was stir the gravel rinse and drain from the valve you installed at the bottom.
Good luck
Tim



I'm not familiar with that kind of filter, I will have to check into it. Thanks!
 
Steve Freeman
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Eliot Mason wrote:

Steve Freeman wrote:I also would like to remove turbidity\sediment after the pump prior to storage tank.



Not sure this applies but I'll at least prompt some smackdowns!

In the woodshop a cyclone filter is an awesome way to remove bits from the air without a filter.  There is real science to making it super efficient, but you can also just ensure that the dust laden air comes in at the edge of a barrel and the outflow is from the top dead center - and that its air sealed.  Dust comes in and spins around, giving gravity a chance to get ahold of it and pull it out of the airflow.

And {just did an internet search ...} such things DO exist for water.  e.g. https://www.waterco.com.au/aquaculture/multicyclone

That one is for a closed, constantly circulating system (fish pond).  I'd imagine that you'd need a bigger one for a one-way system, and that you'd want to match it to the gpm of the pump and the total daily flow (want to keep that water spinning in the tank so it can do its centrifugal magic).  Ideally a cone-bottom tank, but anything round might do for a test.  I'm imaging two 55 barrels stacked might work nicely, or maybe a 250g round tank.  Taller is better than wider, to a point.



I don't think that would apply very well for my application and flow, but thanks!
 
John C Daley
pollinator
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The turbidity can be sorted by having the biggest tank you can afford  to provide for settlement time for your water.
With two tanks, the primary one and then another from which you draw your consumption from, you will find it will work well.
The primary tank should have a large valve at the base of the tank to enable flushing out of sediment.
I would have a 3 inch valve and a series of pipes in a network with holes in them across the tank floor so water is drawn from as low as possible to clean the whole base of the tank
throughly.
The holes should be 3/8 inch. diaMETER , spaced 3 inches apart.
 
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