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How would you survive/make chinampa variations for any sort of environment extreme or not

 
Posts: 132
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
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This is largely for fun and to practice adapting permaculture to different environments feel free to mention as many suggestions as you like I'm 100% willing to improve this so people can use it to practice permaculture during PDCS or other settings.

I put this in the greening the desert form because that was the original inspiration and i figured this was the closest topic.

Most uses of "chinampas" outside of a swamp environment likely wouldent be financialy viable exect for folks in extreme situations/poverty to begin with

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/extreme-weather-records/index.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atacama_Desert#Aridity

Clay, silt, loam, sand, pea gravel, road gravel, rocky, boulders, bedrock

Arctic, sub arctic, cold, temperate, sub tropical, tropical, death valley hot

Coastal, inland, mountainous, high altitude, lost at sea, salt flats, island survival

Mix and match id love to see where this goes!!! 😁

If you want to i would love to see short stories or super crazy scenarios like shipwrecked survival on a 90% rocky island (lets say you wont starve or anything but how would you dovelop the island with or without outside resources) fishing sea farming are cool importing seeds and critters is cool but not preferred.
Carnivore diet or vegan diet etc
Add or mention as many limitations as you like like the number of people or anything
 
pollinator
Posts: 11796
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
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cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
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I'm going to be a little party pooper and remind folks:

"...permaculture concentrates on already-settled areas and agricultural lands.  Almost all of these need drastic rehabilitation and re-thinking.  One certain result of using our skills to integrate food supply and settlement, to catch water from our roof areas, and to place nearby a zone of fuel forest which receives wastes and supplies energy, will be to free most of the area of the globe for the rehabilitation of natural systems.  These need never be looked upon as 'of use to people', except in the very broad sense of global health."  Bill Mollison, Introduction, Permaculture A Designers Manual

Humans are settled in some pretty dire places already, so I think your exercise is still of value!

 
pollinator
Posts: 3562
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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hugelkultur dog forest garden fungi trees rabbit urban wofati cooking bee homestead
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Connor, my understanding of chinampas suggests that they are a tool for a few specific situations, much like hugelkultur, and not really of any use in many others.

As you have posted this in the "greening the desert" forum, I will give a desert-related answer. If I were to regreen the desert, I think that once I had located a spot where the water table was sufficiently near the surface for deeply-taprooted tree species, I would dig a depression, like a giant zai pit, and plant said trees around the perimeter. They would grow, and the pit would eventually fill with water, perhaps with a little help from clay and/or gley layer sealing.

At this point, I would construct a series of chinampas designed to shade the water's surface, and to grow more biomass, and perhaps fodder crops or human-edible food. I think that if we were dealing with a constructed oasis, I would encourage appropriate reed species to grow, and possibly a stand-in for a salix species, if they won't survive the heat. My chinampas would be woven baskets of willow stand-in and reeds.

In this scenario, the chinampas would be used to boost the biomass-generation of the system to make more mulch, and then more soil, faster, and at the same time would cut evaporative losses, allowing for that volume of water to remain and fostering a whole oasis ecosystems that, properly directed, would reinforce and spawn itself.

Honestly, chinampas without water are just hugelbeets that will likely dry up due to all the added surface area. So bearing that in mind, let's look at that.

I live within an hour's walk to the Lake Ontario shore in downtown Toronto, and my daily commute has me driving Humber Bay twice. I would take the idea of chinampas and industrialise them in a very specific way.

The first industrial chinampas I would build would use barges as floating bases. They would have wicking line nets forming a tent from the edge of the barges to buoys at the water's surface about three feet around the barge. Some clean fibre fill would form a base above that, then subsoil and topsoil from adjacent areas needing biological remediation, probably in Toronto's Portlands. These barges would be planted in hemp for it's heavy metal sequestration properties, and a reed bed system would be engineered to sit in silt sacks attached between the buoys.

The goal of this would be to remediate the soil on the barge, and to continue by being a slow-wicking biological filter on the lake water itself. As a next stage, the hemp could be processed into more of the wicking base that draws water into the system, and older barges might be retired from active sequestration and harvesting by parking them as part of a breakwater, but planted in willows, pollinator habitat, and surrounded by a reed bed system.

Another use of this idea could involve industry using these barges, covered in large hoop-houses, operating year-round as active biological sequestration that might include waste heat use and the pumping of CO2 exhaust into the greenhouse barges.

A less-industrial version of this could have much simpler, traditionally constructed chinampas placed to reinforce wetlands and reed bed infrastructure in areas at risk. If, for instance, every dock in Ontario had floating chinampas-inspired planting boxes with reed bed systems growing in them, we could amplify natural water cleaning and filtration exactly where we usually cause the damage.

There are interesting ideas to be had here, just, I think, not so many in arid environments.

-CK
 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
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Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
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Chris Kott wrote:possibly a stand-in for a salix species, if they won't survive the heat.



Our native Black Willow Salix nigra is very heat tolerant.
 
connor burke
Posts: 132
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
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During high school my english teacher has us read a book called the kite runner that was largely about a city called kabul in afganistan, much of the time this area is what i imagine when i think of anything in permaculture. Chinampas for example could be used to store meltwater, ice and snow for part of the year and as the soil is often rocky mineral soils in the areas i see,  you would be able to add structure to the beds with minimal slumping and the risk of landslides and such would be fairly manageable.

Im curious if using those rocks to build cisterns for fish farming would be viable. So that the surface area would be less of an issue while conserving water.
Similarly to the Albadia project water could be funneled to selected more intensively managed areas for farming soaked into the ground while the chinampas act like sunken growing beds with poles and bushes above the water and growing areas to create shade

I've seen people living in incredibly inhospitable conditions via working jobs largely unrelated to agriculture. https://youtu.be/Cnvsj-rccHk
This video shows a landscape view of a low income area of the city of kabul where the locals are experiencing food shortages, war, water scarcity, scarce fuel for heating their homes amongst other issues that can be remedied to a degree via permaculture.
This video shows the problems and allows us to see resources we can use to better the sitation. I find this video interesting and i hope it brings you value.
https://youtu.be/FhXJRFYmKqk
This is a news video showing a rural area that was previously far more fertile, nowadays they are experiencing a drought. Some of the land in the drought inpacted area is still green so holistic planned grazing could still bring some of it back.
This video shows a degraded but still inhabited landscape that can quickly be restored. Its pretty there if i was working with a non profit i might want to live there for a while.
https://youtu.be/LYNUYDxOLXE
News Video showing some of the statistics and video about farmers being displaced by the droughts. This video gives a clearer description of the area and the issues it faces. I found it interesting to see how big of a problem there was.
https://youtu.be/TXcvg4y5IaY
Video showing the construction of artificial glaciers being used to reduce the impact ofvthe droughts. This video shows a water management strategy that can be applied to chinampas in cold areas. This might be useable in some areas of Oregon or farther north.
https://youtu.be/b5dx7jQF1WQ
Documentary about the Libyan Desert with 2.4 million views showing landscapes local Water Management strategies and conventional agriculture to a degree. This video shows another type of desert where the natives have doveloped their own interesting survival strategies. Its beautiful and interesting!
https://youtu.be/L6LmVDujYWY
Introduction video for the al-baydaha permaculture project  showing large acreage water management strategies this shows a form of permaculture suited to areas so dry that grasses cant provide enough feed to goats and such but trees can. Its a rare example of permaculture in a super extreme environment in cooperation with settled nomadic herders!

Though i describe chinampas it would most likely just be dreging the ponds rivers and water storage areas for biomass and less rocky soil.
 
connor burke
Posts: 132
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
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I asked matt powers how he would build a biodome and he said he would make 60% or so of it aquaculture.
 
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