Have you had run-ins with poisonous snakes, spiders, crocodiles and etc.

I just came back from a trip to Central America, I have avoided any place from Nicaragua south because I have a fear of poisonous snakes.   Back in the day I spent some time in Panama but never really thought about the denizens of the jungle.

Has anyone dealt with venomous or apex predators when practicing food-forestry or permaculture?  

My biggest fear when I visited Costa Rica was stepping on a Bushmaster/Pit Viper (Hemo and Neurotoxin.) You have 2 to 4 hours to get medical treatment.  Good luck with that.  I also feared being bitten by a Fer-de-lance.  Everyone told me I was paranoid bordering on crazy for worrying about it.  

On a two hour hike, I saw two lidded palm vipers and a blue jeans poison dart frog.  No...dooky.   I wanted to do some surfing on the pacific coast but worried about crocodiles after reading about a Bolder man who had his leg eaten while surfing. (yeah crocs go into the ocean.) I ended up believing there were no worries and the following day did a boat trip up the estuary at the North End of the beach that feeds into the ocean.  Yeah, there are crocodiles.  I read that they can get up to 7.7 meters in length.  That's basically a mid-range dinosaur.

Does anyone have stories about a poisonous snake, spiders, crocodiles or etc while getting elbow deep into permaculture?  I'm really interested in how one can relax knowing that in certain parts of the world these critters are ever-present.

Venomous :)

Looks like an awesome trip.  Those poison dart frogs are just beautiful.  I'm going to have some of them one day.

When my earthworks were being built, the crew was sinking fish habitat in the pond. 2 guys were in the water moving a big stump to the new location.  One that an excavator dropped in so they could position it. As it went under, a black widow spider and a scorpion came out of the stump. The 2 guys got out pretty quick.

Past that, I kayak and run into alligators often. There is probably a 15% chance that there is a gator in the water at my getaway place. Last time i was there, a neighbor said he was crabbing off the dock 2 houses down from mine. His dog jumped in the water.  He almost didn't make it back.

wayne fajkus wrote:When my earthworks were being built, the crew was sinking fish habitat in the pond. 2 guys were in the water moving a big stump to the new location.  One that an excavator dropped in so they could position it. As it went under, a black widow spider and a scorpion came out of the stump. The 2 guys got out pretty quick.

Past that, I kayak and run into alligators often. There is probably a 15% chance that there is a gator in the water at my getaway place. Last time i was there, a neighbor said he was crabbing off the dock 2 houses down from mine. His dog jumped in the water.  He almost didn't make it back.

Black widows are nasty.  I bet they jumped out of that pond like hot potatoes.  

Wow, glad that dog made it back to the dock.  I remember watching a National Geographic special about the outback and crocodiles.  There was a bunch of youth partying on a pier, and one of them just disappeared. They are pretty sure it was a crock.  

Do you every hunt alligators?  I've eaten it a couple of times. It's pretty tasty fried.

There was a Rattlesnake in my Asparagus patch years ago.  I was weeding the patch, reached down and saw something move.  It was a small Rattlesnake who was trying not to be seen.  I hollered for my husband to get the camera.

After that I cleared the paths around our house so we could see snakes better.  So far no more rattlers, but we have seen several Texas Coral Snakes ("larger than expected").

Been stung a few times by Scorpions but ours are not especially venomous.  Seen a very small number of Black Widow Spiders.

Our nastiest bug is the Kissing Bug or Cone-nosed Bug, which can transmit Chagas disease.  Been bitten a few times but not in a disease-transmitting way.  https://kissingbug.tamu.edu/

Tyler Ludens wrote:There was a Rattlesnake in my Asparagus patch years ago.  I was weeding the patch, reached down and saw something move.  It was a small Rattlesnake who was trying not to be seen.  I hollered for my husband to get the camera.

After that I cleared the paths around our house so we could see snakes better.  So far no more rattlers, but we have seen several Texas Coral Snakes ("larger than expected").

Been stung a few times by Scorpions but ours are not especially venomous.  Seen a very small number of Black Widow Spiders.

Our nastiest bug is the Kissing Bug or Cone-nosed Bug, which can transmit Chagas disease.  Been bitten a few times but not in a disease-transmitting way.  https://kissingbug.tamu.edu/

This kind of hits home.  Unless I'm pulling weeds I don't wear gloves and I just reach in and start pulling or pruning.  I actually pruned my asparagus this last weekend.  Yikes.  I've read that the younger venomous snakes tend to pump out all the venom they have where older snakes will conserve some.  That would make for a very bad day gardening.  

Trace Oswald wrote:Venomous :)

Looks like an awesome trip.  Those poison dart frogs are just beautiful.  I'm going to have some of them one day.

You are a wild man if you want to keep poison dart frogs in the house.  :)

Scott Foster wrote:

Do you every hunt alligators?  I've eaten it a couple of times. It's pretty tasty fried.

No. I think alligator season is literally open for 1 day or weekend per year. I'd have to get it over to my shore from about 200 yards away where it hangs out. I have never been interested in it but this particilar one is becoming a nuisance.

I forgot about rattlesnakes. The barn cat killed one in my annual garden last year. Small one.

A few years back there was something under the chicken coop. Their coop is elevated with a screened floor. When they are perched the poop falls through the floor. We can scoop it out from outside. It was the wierdest thing. Didnt know what the heck it was. It was a small rattlesnake trying to swallow a toad that was too big to swallow. A toad snake. It looked like one animal.  Lol. Wierd. Surprisingly   the wife grabbed the toad and the snake and separated them. The toad hopped away like it was fine. The snake was happy to be out of that situation.

I was in costa rica last week and took a boat ride into the mangroves around damas island where an indigenous community lives off grid. Our boat operator was one of the tribe. He was amazingly tuned into the surrounding wildlife.

We would see trees, he would lift a brances and show us a 10 ft boa constrictor. We were enjoying ride, looking forward, we heard a splash and he had grabbed a small crocodile from the water as it swam by (none of us saw it swimming by). He paused and walked barefoot in the forest and he motioned for us to join him. As we headed that way, he leaped in the air, grabbed a tree and pulled it part the way down , at which point a baby sloth turned and slowly greeted us with an outstretched arm and a big smile.

It was clear that his entire life's training was these woods, waterways, and critters. I doubt there is a short crash course that would get us acclimated.

My suggestion would be to pair up with some local knowledge in concentric expansion, slowly.

That sloth pic is AWESOME!

J Davis.

I did some guided trips with a local wildlife guide who had that same awareness.  I felt like Jake Sully in Avatar, "Like a baby. Making noise, don't know what to do."   I was so unaware of just about everything that he pointed out.  I too looked forward and down making sure I didn't step on a snake.

That is an awesome picture.  I saw a sloth from distance but he was really high.   Did you experience howler monkeys?  We were eating dinner on the beach and one threw poo at our table, it landed on my son's plate and the front of his shirt.  Yes, I'm laughing out loud.  He didn't think it was funny. :)

Scott Foster wrote: Did you experience howler monkeys?  We were eating dinner on the beach and one through poo at our table, it landed on my son's plate and the front of his shirt.  Yes, I'm lauging outloud.  He didn't think it was funny. :)

Thats a funny story!

Not sure of the species, but lots of monkeys around. One came on the boat and walked on our shoulders and ate from our hands.

We were near manuel antonio national park so lots of wildlife around.

JD  

We spent some time in Arenal and then headed to the Pacific Coast around Tamarindo and Playa Samara.  The Howlers Monkeys actually sound ominous.  We didn't come across any friendly monkeys like that but I think you were more in the bush than we were.  Where we stayed in Playa Samara there was a group of Howlers in the tree adjacent.

Hawaii has got a few....

... Scorpions. They're small and thin, and very few people around here notice them. I've only seen two. Both had climbed into a cardboard box while I was at the town farmers market. I've yet to be stung.
... Centipedes. Got two types of big stinging ones on the farm. Yup, I've been stung twice so far, it feels like instant fire. Hurts for hours.
... Little fire ants. Not near my farm, but they're in town. I was helping pull tall weeds that had entangled a tree. My right hand suddenly was on fire. They're not as bad as a centipede, but the stings burned for awhile.
... Stinging caterpillars. Not in my area, but they are on this island.
... Crab spiders. I've never been bitten by them, but some people claim they have.
... Yellowjackets. These are a real pest here. The recent warm weather and rain has caused a population explosion. Just this past month I found 7 ground nests. Their sting is real annoying. And I destroy every nest I find.
... I've been told that black widow spiders exist here, but I've never seen one.

I'm not paranoid about these critters, though I don't want to get stung. At least they're not real deadly.

The ocean is more deadly. Sea urchins. Box jelly fish. Sharks. Swordfish. I've never had a problem yet, but they don't keep me from snorkeling.

I sometimes think about moving from India back to New England, but every year I meet more people from New England, of hear old friend tell of, worse and worse personal tales of Lyme Disease. Ugh, no thanks, I'll stay over here.

Su Ba wrote:
... Centipedes.

Oh Su, I was only on Kauai for six months and I got stung twice too!  People don't believe me when I say they're as big as snakes and unsquishable.

I had a get a tetanus shot just last week after rescuing my ducks from a ferret.  Someone's escaped pet, so luckily it was only a pinprick of a bite;  the shot hurt much worse.

Su the ocean does have some scary critters.   Costa Rica has really poor visibility I define my level of safety by how far I can see underwater.  I recognize this is not rational.  I've been in the water with sharks and it doesn't bother me.  There is something about Salt Water crocs and poor visibility that is a bit unsettling I did spend time in the water but it was always in the back of my mind.

I didn't know that Hawaii had box jellies.    

Rebecca Norman wrote:I sometimes think about moving from India back to New England, but every year I meet more people from New England, of hear old friend tell of, worse and worse personal tales of Lyme Disease. Ugh, no thanks, I'll stay over here.

Limes is prevalent in the U.S. too.  I hope I don't get it.  My neighbor had it and it knocked him out for quite some time.   Stay away from the King Cobras :)

Scott Foster wrote:

Rebecca Norman wrote:I sometimes think about moving from India back to New England, but every year I meet more people from New England, of hear old friend tell of, worse and worse personal tales of Lyme Disease. Ugh, no thanks, I'll stay over here.

Limes is prevalent in the U.S. too.  I hope I don't get it.  My neighbor had it and it knocked him out for quite some time.   Stay away from the King Cobras :)

Yeah, what I meant to say was, the US has a terrible insect-borne disease, and I feel the critters where I live in India are safer! My corner of the world doesn't have scorpions, venomous snakes, insect-borne diseases, venomous spiders that I know of. The centipedes live much further down from where I live, at a balmy 9000 feet above sea level, and they are rare and I haven't heard of people getting bitten.

We only have 2 concerns. Black widows and rattlesnakes. Rattlesnakes aren't really in my area so we don't worry too much about it. We have black widows in droves though. The kids are told NOT to stick their arms or legs into any dark space. I've taken down play equipment that attracted black widows. It's a great concern for me as they would absolutely be able to kill my kids with a single bite. I'd be miserable if I were bit, but I'd live.

So far so good. My older kids are clear on what to do and not to do and I don't worry as much about them now. As we are having a baby in the fall I'll start the worrying all over again.

Galadriel Freden wrote:

Su Ba wrote:
... Centipedes.

Oh Su, I was only on Kauai for six months and I got stung twice too!  People don't believe me when I say they're as big as snakes and unsquishable.

I've got two kinds in the farm. The blue legged ones stay smaller. The ones I see are 2" to 3 1/2" long. And these guys have a sting that is truly wicked. They hurt worse than the bigger red ones. The red legged ones get a lot longer. Most are in the 6 inch range but I killed one that was 8 inches!

Yup, unsquishable. And hard to kill. You step on them and they simply scurry away. So a friend I mine pounds them with a rubber mallet on her tile floor. My mother used to use a scissors to cut them in half. Another friend prefers a pancake turner to chop them. I always carry a big box cutter in my pocket, which is handy to cut them in half.

I live in Brazil, we have all the critters, it would seem.
(and yet the closest call I have had was when I nearly stepped on a rattlesnake was when I was on vacation in Arizona).

We have lots of brown recluse spiders. My daughter was hospitalized last year for a bite, which got caught early and she got antivenin. She has a bit of a hollow in her thigh muscle from necrosis anyway.
We also have black widows, snakes, scorpions, centipedes, caterpillars with neurotoxins, Chagas, dengue, yellow fever, etc etc.
But considering i have a farm in my backyard and do a lot of hiking, you don't see these things toooooooo often (or as often as I had originally feared)

When I go visit the US, I have noticed that now I always walk on paths and keep an eye on my feet (and the other eye on hanging branches). I always wear closed footwear. I watch podcasts of people gardening with bare feet and they freak me the heck out-- even though I go barefoot as often as possible, but never on grass or in the garden.
No hugging trees, you can get caterpillared that way (those caterpillars can kill you if enough of them sting you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonomia_obliqua ). I also use gloves in the garden, always. I've had a few close calls and never been sorry I was wearing hiking boots, closed shoes, gloves or long sleeves.

I think it's kind of like "thinking security" (i.e. being aware of your surroundings, taking basic preventive measures, etc) in the third world- it kind of becomes second nature, or if you aren't the type to make it second nature you probably don't stick around here too long.

A true Permaculture Food Forest in my area is an invitation for increased lizard and frog activity which, in most areas, would be considered a huge benefit for the garden and local ecology. However, my property directly neighbours a large saltwater wetland (environmental reserve) which is habitat for local and migratory birds. These typically draw predators – raptors, owls and snakes.

The raptors, owls, Kingfishers and all other bird species are welcome (unaware domestic poultry notwithstanding), but the snakes are definitely not since they include four or five of the world’s most poisonous species that are commonly seen hunting. They include the: Eastern Brown Snake, Coastal Taipan, Tiger Snake, Death Adder, and the Red Bellied Black.

The main one, the Eastern Brown, is a complete bastard of a snake – aggressive and basically bad-tempered, although the Taipan and Tiger have similar temperaments; they tend to give a warning before striking. The Death Adder hunts by letting its prey come to it, so watching where you step makes a bite less likely. The good old Black Snake has a very good temperament and would rather withdraw than attack – they are one of my favourites – have had a lot of interactions with them and Browns/Tigers, the Blacks actually keep the Brown population down because they’re immune to the venom and hunt their young.

I believe Sea Snakes are around also, but they’re usually more inquisitive than aggressive – damn venomous though.

We have a huge population of spider species – big hairy buggers, all have varying degrees of poison but only two are commonly dangerous: the Funnel Web Spider and the Red Back Spider. The Funnel Web is highly venomous and aggressive, and shares the spot of being the World’s most poisonous to humans. The Red Back is everywhere and is similar to the Black Widow – able to kill kids and the elderly, most Aussies consider them and centipedes a nuisance - more dangerous things to worry about! (Our ‘Daddy Long Legs’ spiders hunt Red Backs, so we keep them around for ecological pest management purposes.)

There’s also a few dangerous aquatic species, but it’s rare for them to coincide with humans: various sharks, rays, Blue Ringed Octopus, and poisonous fish (barbs and spines). I’d NEVER walk into saltwater without wearing sandshoes, but that’s just me not taking unnecessary risks – stepping on simple things like large/small crabs, oysters, mussels, etc does a lot of nasty damage - been there done that, got the T-shirt!

Airborne insects include the introduced honey bee, various wasps and flies, and the most dangerous – disease carrying mosquito that carry several bugs e.g. River Fever, etc.

I think the only reason more people aren’t bitten here is because of the low land/human density value. If we had a population like the USA, there would be hundreds of potential fatalities each year.

It’s a matter of simply adhering to uncommon ‘common sense’ – watch where you walk (not the smart phone), make a lot of noise when walking through bushland to warn animals, good farm hygiene practices, and don’t go fiddling around in places your hands aren’t meant to be: rock crevices, grass tufts, rock pools, wood piles, sheets of tin laying on the ground, etc.

F Agricola wrote:good farm hygiene practices

this has been the hardest for me to learn/adhere to. Brushpiles, woodpiles, piles of old plant pots, crawl spaces for storage, etc are all spider/snake magnets. My natural tendency is "save it all, it will come in handy" but the reality is more "you're building dangerous pest habitat again".

Talking about the recluse spider, since that is the most common bad guy we have, inside the house there is research showing that just moving around the furniture every so often (like pulling out the couch to sweep behind it) convinces them to move on, they really don`t want to be disturbed, and black widows even more so. You learn to always shake out your shoes, your towel, and essentially everything else before putting it on or bringing it near your body.
On the other hand, if you have a slovenly teenager who keeps her clothes in piles on the floor, that is a great recipe for a bite (and exactly how she got bitten).

We don't have any real nasties here we have adders (snake) but they are unlikely to kill you. For me the biggest issue is wasps, I'm allergic to them and they are all over, apart from exterminating any nest I locate and murdering every hibernating queen we find I don't worry about it, somethings going to get you just take sensible precautions and get on with it It's a bit like crossing the road, don't worry about the imminent death coming at you at 70mph but don't stop looking before you cross.

I remember being on a field trip in the US, somewhere between saltlake city and Moab we stopped to look at a rock formation. Our lecturers confidently told us there was a possibility of rattlesnakes but not to worry they had never seen one. Well one of the guys was adding a rock to a pile when I shouted at him to stop, fortunately he did, because in the pile was a rattler and it was not happy. after spotting that one we found nearly 15 others. No one was bitten but we decided to go elsewhere to sit down for lunch!

N.E. Arizona, rattlesnakes, i spend so much time looking where i walk that it was two years before i knew i had a juniper shrub on my property. (The only one for miles) if i want to look in thr distance i stop walking.
As i rule i don't kill them, especially if they give fair warning. I'm only a visitor once a month.

At the marina in Colon Panama i snorkeled to find an anchor i had dropped in the drink. Later someone told me that he saw me in the water and kept an eye on the local aligator on shore. Actually going to town in Colon alone was the scariest thing to do there.

Su ba, cane spiders, i don't know about their bite but their size and speed scares the hell out of me.

The closest call was in borneo at a sidewalk bar. We had chicken skewers. When the waitress cleaned up i saw her give the skewers back to the cook. Yuck!

Alligators are mostly dangerous to little pet poodles, but Crocodiles like to try to eat humans.

Crock or aligator if it were next to me i think I'd be belly up in shock.
Sailing off the coast of Hispaniola i saw a large (mammal?) Inspecting the keel of my boat. That it was nearly the length of my (35') boat gave me pause.
I spent the rest of the day wondering what creature, other than the kraken, was known to sometimes ram boats.
I could do the same in Colon harbor,pondering "saltwater aligator? Crock? As it swam alongside me.

But it didn't

One of my recurring nightmares is large fish or other water creatures.  *shiver*

I once encountered 3 rattlesnakes sunning themselves on a rock while  climbing a very steep cliff . They rattled and I paid attention.

In Kisumu Kenya, I disturbed a black mamba, when I picked up some lumber to hand it to a carpenter.

On Mindanao, in the Philippines, I encountered two cobras inside of five minutes. Now I know not to walk through a corn field during the heat of the day.

We also encountered millipedes and stinging ants. I think they may have been fire ants , which I have never encountered before. Hundreds of stings.
.....
All of my really dangerous encounters, where I got bit, have been with insects and a dog. I killed the dog, but the insects all got away.

While working in a very tight attic, my pry bar accidentally damaged a yellow jacket nest. I received upwards of 50 stings in a matter of seconds.

While carrying a ladder, I disturbed a hornet's nest hanging from a lilac bush. 20 or so stings.

A hobo spider got me while I was sleeping. Identified only by how the bite looked.

I once encountered a bull elk who was not happy to see me.

I'm looking forward to seeing saltwater crocs and  Komodo dragons, but won't be swimming with or petting them .
.......
So, there have been a few encounters, but they pale in comparison to the danger presented by humans. I would gladly meet a cobra every day, in exchange for not meeting any dangerous people.

It's important to give dangerous creatures their space. If you want to examine them closely , watch some of the nice footage that national geographic has produced.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yhjn-xY5tcc

Dale, you ever think you might have pissed off a witch who cursed you?

As a boy in Bonaire i met a baracuda who i thought was bigger than me.
I aleays saw skinny cudas, when did they start getting so fat?
I stayed in the area to prove how brave i was but even then i notice i was looking over my shoulder a lot.

As an adult i was anchored off of puerto rico where working on my mast i dropped a shiny wrench.
Notice i said shiny?
I jumped in the water and i could see my shiny wrench, i could also see the large baracuda.

Shiny wrench/barracuda.

I was pretty quick about it.

Later i was boarded by the coast guard. I notice that being boarded was less painfull when she's blond and cute.  Gun and all.

I have pissed off many witches and the witches starting with b. But i don't think i've suffered much from encounters with critters. Just a few stings and a bite.

In Kenya we had a driver who had been bitten by a cobra as a child. The side of his calf looked like alligator skin.

We are generally at much greater risk from domestic animals. I went to school with a girl who had been gored by a bull. The worst animal damage I've ever seen in person was the thigh of one of our neighbors when i was a kid. He failed to secure a giant boar before he started castrating the baby pigs. Almost bled to death.

Kevin, cane spiders are indeed big and quick, but they are actually beneficial. Many people around here encourage them to live in their houses because they are super at controlling insects. I have one that lives in my kitchen at the moment, and I'm glad.

Dale makes a good point. Although not venomous, domestic animals can be quite dangerous. I've had several people that I knew be killed by horses, cattle, and even a ram. Even dogs can kill, although I don't know anyone personally who that's happened to. Other people have been permanently disabled in some fashion. Many have been injured and recovered, including myself. Having worked with animals all my life, I carry the scars of many an encounter that didn't turn out too well.

Some people feel the need to keep extremely dangerous and sometimes endangered animals at home, in private zoos that have no oversight, and often owners who are incapable of providing for the needs of the animal.

A guy in British Columbia, thought he needed to own a Bengal tiger. Turns out it's expensive to feed a tiger. It eventually ate him. There was lots of chatter at the coffee shop when it came out in the paper. People thought it was terrible , and I agreed, sort of. I told them that it was terrible to keep an underfed pet, but on the bright side , society no longer has to deal with this guy who thinks he needs to own a tiger.

So the next time you read that someone's chimpanzee ripped them to pieces, try to look on the bright side.

Su ba, someone i knew in oahu was driving up the pali and saw a big ole cane spider on the outside of his windsheild. He smacked the glass with his palm, hard, to scare it off....oops, it was inside the glass.
And no pork anywhere.

I'll keep that beneficial animal thought.

I saw a snake on top my RV stove. I immediately thought rattler, that's what i see here the most.
I went outside for a stick and all i could think was that i had to see that snake leave or i would never feel safe.

I was suspicious of the shape of it's head in the two seconds i saw it.
It was brother king snake. It could smell my mouse problem.
I gently helped it out.
Beneficial but only if you have a strong heart.

Silver lining..as i cleaned up the mouse nests in dark corners i found an envelope with 200 bucks.

I'd bought the RV at auction. Someones hidden money.

Ah, the sweet taste of found money. If i earn $5 , it gets spent and i can't even remember what happened with that small amount. But when i find $5, there's extra joy in spending it and reliving that moment every time someone mentions found money.

If I ever find myself in the jaws of a hippopotamus with no escape in sight , I will try to remember the time I found $1,350.00 or even better , the time i found just over $200 and it belonged to someone who had been stealing from my uncle's business. See , I forgot all about that rotten hippopotamus for a moment.

Years ago I got a geology degree.  One of the last semesters was a field camp for a couple of months in southern Utah and Nevada.  We saw rattlesnakes every day., several times a day.

My hearing may not be the best.  I was talking to another guy one morning and after a few minutes he said "there's a rattler buzzing somewhere."  He paused a few moments and continued "He sounds really pissed!"  Then he glanced down and said "You're standing on him!"

Sure enough, a smallish rattler had been lying peacefully under a small clump of rabbit brush when I intruded.  I was standing on the clump.  It was mashed down and holding him in place, but he was buzzing up a storm!  We stepped back a couple of steps pretty quick.  We looked at him and he buzzed at us for a minute or so, then since we had backed off a ways and weren't coming after him, he crawled off.

Rattle snakes aren't generally aggressive, you just need to stay away from them.  Don't stick your hands under rocks you haven't looked under and don't stomp through heavy brush.

Echinacea is an herb to study if you live in an area with venomous creatures.  I have a post here on permies where I talked about using it for rattlesnake bites.  Frequency of use is important.  Instead of only a couple/few doses throughout the day, I go with a dose every hour, except while I'm sleeping.  And a dose every half hour for the first few hours after the bite.  I give it internally, but would apply a poultice if possible/needed.  I make tincture and also have it in loose form, root and herb.

Using it frequently is important and worth saying again.  If you stay on top of it...set a timer...first thing I do when I wake up, last thing I do before bed, and EVERY hour throughout the day...then the necrotic tissue never happens, and within a few days the evidence of any bite is gone.  I keep going for a week or so until I'm satisfied that it has been fully healed.  At least that has been my experience on three different occasions from prairie rattlers.  

Here are a couple of links that I have saved on the topic.

Echinacea: The Rest of the Story

Echinacea - The treatment of venomous bites

Echinacea for venomous snake bites  ---  The post I made here on permies.

So we have a vast collection of old windows stored for oh, probably close to 9 years. I've finally started building the greenhouse and we were taking those windows out. I'm pregnant and I was wearing leather gloves but man oh man. So many black widows on these windows. I don't know what would happen if I were to get bit by one being that I'm pregnant. Would it kill the baby? I don't know. Freaks me out SO BAD!

So I actually decided to call my OBGYN about this and they said get bit and we could both die so....FREAKED OUT!

Once I'm living on a farm in the Philippines , I  will always have something on hand that is much more powerful than echinacea. The most likely culprit would be a cobra, so I'll get something that is specific to that one.

When trying to go organic in this environment, poisonous snakes are an absolutely necessary evil , unless you want rats to eat everything.

I've become completely accustomed to seeing rats every night , outside, and to encountering large cockroaches inside. The rats aren't the dirty sewer rat variety. They seem to live on human food waste as well as fallen fruit. Black and white in a neat pattern.

There are millions of little ants about the size of a comma, on a cell phone screen. During a hard rain thousands of them came into the house and gathered on one wall. I wanted to kill them , but Nova said they will go outside again when the rain stops. They did.

I have also become accustomed to the little lizard that lives in my bedroom. I leave water for him or her. Every building here has little lizards that eat insects.

There are wild dogs roaming the streets. I haven't encountered any vicious ones. Mostly small breeds that I believe were once pets, or maybe they still are. They like to hang out by the fried chicken places. I always give them my scraps. I don't think anybody here has heard the warning about dogs and chicken bones. Dogs who can't figure out how to eat  bones, are likely to be eliminated from the gene pool.

We will make every attempt to keep spiders and snakes out of the house, but I think we must coexist with them the minute we walk out the door.