there are several different styles of Ozans we used to make a full cover which when up had a center hole that was open to allow for the ventilation aspect when burning fires. Partial ozans can be made to cover the sleeping areas.Different tribes had different ways of using the ozans based on the needs..
If an ozan is put in properly your smoke still goes up through the smoke flap area.Hence needing the drafting area formed by the outside of the lodge and the liner.
When we used the fire pit in the winter in our tipi's we always dug them in lined them with stone.Preferable one that will hold and retain heat.The flat ones are great to heat up and use similar to a hot water bottle and to pre-warm beds.We used to also cook in ours over the fire and in the coals.A decent firewood that sets coals and you can cook a decent meal in the cast iron pots and utilize the heat for warmth very productively through the night.
What we do with traditional tipis is first with set up never let the lodge cover touch the ground. The elders always looked at the fact a liner is easier to repair or remake then the outside lodge covering.The canvas choice makes a big difference as well.Heavier and properly sealed for our area is a must.. In the winter we always ran a double liner, the lightweight one went to the ground.Since we burned a fire in our tipis we always had this and the lodge covering set properly to not only insulate but along with smoke flaps being open correctly for our drafting. Which if done correctly can be used to also move heat down to ground level..Our fires were used for cooking, heating stones and and water.In the winter we added a second heavy liner that went higher up and did go to the ground but could be rolled up.In the traditional tipis we used buffalo hides for this in the others we used a double wool blanket stitched together with a waterproof canvas on the outer side against the standard liner.These we ran about a foot higher then the liner in the inside. The heavier canvas ozan also worked to keep the heat down over the living area.Ours were always made to detail to custom fit the tipi and owners pending on their usage...
The tipi siting and around the outside we also used to groom for proper drainage away from the tipi..as well as placement according to the area and normal wind patterns for the season..
Just have to say this seems like a lot of work to stay in a tipi over the winter. We used to make tipis and sell them in Montana..As a native American family business.We have stayed in Montana winters in tipis before and have had friends who lived in Whitefish in their 20 footer for over 8 years with out adding what has been done utilizing the tipi as a total living area.Proper usage of the flaps, liner,a winter liner made for insulation and ozan.Along with understanding how to use the fire area and we know from experience they can be very comfortable through out the winter...Reading this was a giggle to us..Guess different stroke for different folks..
While we do not consider ourselves Permies,LOL we do utilize some techniques that are just plain old that seem to now fall under the label of permaculture.We are south of Lakeside and used to teach alternative gardening classes for growing in the area.We do alternative building as well but do not have anything in the works at this time.Not sure if we will be offering our usual full blown free classes this year, hoping to not have to set up demos or do lectures either,,LOL but we are always willing to help others learn how do their own..
Mary and James
I will go through the book case and see what all the titles ore for you when I get a chance.Sounds like your doing well with your concept.Really appreciated reading your paragraph about writing it and giving credit where it is due,, Thank you for explaining that.The seamstresses book will be good for many it seems so many people do not take the extra time to learn to handle this aspect.
Even the really heavy animal hides tan out to easier sewing when brain tanned or worked more..A good brain tanned buffalo is heavy but I have used a size 8 glover needle on them and done bead work with no problem, other then the neck that makes great soles for mocs .Moose is similar to the buffalo for this as well. The chemical tanning does not leave them as supple and as easy to stitch through.I can do bead work with a size 12 beading needle on a properly done brain tan hide where as the same weight in chemical tan you have to break out the glovers needles.
I know others do not like to use sinew..LOL when doing traditional clothing or museum quality remakes it is required,, funny part of that is many people do not realize if your using the entire animal that you can obtain one of the least breakable threads this way..I typically use the artificial sinew or pre-treat my upholstery threads with beeswax when stitching items that do not have to be that grade.I usually do not do the sewing machine and glues and such very often in what I have been creating most my life.
I look forward to following your vision.
Hi there Bill,
It is always nice to see others from up in the area show up on the site.We sneak in more occasionally these days to read and write since we have cut our online time down so we can be out enjoying life.
We also have not in the time we have been on the Permies group dropped an intro..Probably should take the time to do that some time.We are a couple of farm kids born and raised in MT with a very diverse background..LOL going to admit we are probably the confused Permie posters. LOL just mean that in the lines of how sometimes it is confusing to us to read old time methods being pumped into something new.LOL We have taught alternative gardening and other life skills for years although this year will be our first year of no longer doing that and working hard toward our new beginning. James does not make it in often either his speciality has been masonry and alternative construction,lol at least until leeds and the official green building stuff took off....He is one of the few people in the Flathead who has built russian furnace or two had them tested and given talks on them..Wish he would come in and chat more here on the forums.Any how nice to see another from our area in here posting
I am never sure if I should post to these.
The Aquarius Farms way of growing tomatoes is similar to a method we have used for many years as a matter of fact we learned it from an old gardener who lived a few miles from your place and gardened for 70 years in the area.He however taught us some bonus methods that begin the basic root structure growing from the lanky stems so that when they were laid on their side they would be fully rooted in a matter of a week.This was also helped along with an herbal tea to water in that encouraged quick root growth but also helped the plant with shock and disease prevention. We also grew up with a grandmother who taught us to use a home-made based form of Mycorrhizal fungi.That if used properly will make the plants healthier, have higher production and use less water. Through the years I have tested this type of planting and process in several alternative gardening beds, normal gardens as well as hugle beds. All plants treated the same way with the same amounts of water, organic fertilizers etc..Hate to say this but they have all produced equally.The container based plants produced a bit quicker but in the long run the similar amounts of tomatoes.Toss these out in WOWs with hot manure to heat them and we have had cold set type tomatoes in the past as early as the middle of June.
Wink I grew up in the area your building your Aquarius farms and used to produce an acre sized organic garden that rocked hugs amounts of produce.Which was developed around creating micro climates to allow for earlier planting and longer growing seasons. As well as using old knowledge of gardening.
Hope you guys have a great growing season down there
I find this interesting in a sense but also at last check have probably 8 books or so on the subjects somewhere in the book shelves. The reason I do own those books I grew up in the native american culture and learned to tan hides from a couple of grandmothers who have been given awards for their tanning abilities while they were living.I made traditional native and frontier clothing. As my clientele grew I searched out other ways to tan hides for different types of leathers and skins besides brain tan in natural forms.I have tanned everything from fish to bison.I am a seamstress with 35 plus years experience with leather and other materials.And use to teach all this stuff. Guess I fall into that old people area LOL and possibly a grumpy old people..Who has had old skills handed down from generations not because I wanted to learn them but because it was tradition, it was a part of life and in some cases survival since we did live on the reservation in a state of poverty if that is what people want to label it.
I very much respect the concept of this coming from a permaculture based direction.But guess I am loss to how using traditional methods should be relabelled.. And hun, yes I can remove hair with out the use of any toxic materials. Making home-made lye from ashes just used to speed up the process if I needed leather quickly.It also gave me extra lye for making soap. Amazing what you can also do with the burying process and plant materials that make up certain enzymes and fungi that help the hair slip, but also colors the leather some what.
Umm and those heavy hides, if tanned properly use them for clothes for gads sake..We have made some amazing hair on and off buffalo coats.Mocs and mukluks from moose and buffalo..Leather is one great material to work with if tanned properly. If your going to write this subject however from a permaculture aspect you may also want to explain thread and needles made from the harvested animals.How to obtain and break down sinew for sewing with it,How to properly prepare the leather for sewing into clothing .Something that misses in almost all books, hence why people end up with stretched out of shape garments. Not to forget lacing techniques that not only add decoration but are really functional as well.. I preferred to not use the sewing machines for leather work and stitch with sinew or artificial sinew.Threads for stitching leather really hold up much better if they are treated with beeswax..
Wish you well with this book.Be respectful of the elders in this world who have these skills when you write it..
The resale is a challenge on these types of homes,There is no doubt about it.Ours happens to sit in a very desirable location if we should choose to sale and was built to be able to stucturally hold a second and third floor if need be..LOl however we happen to love it here..
Our roof system came from Belgrade.They were very simple to install, took three of us to do it,they were all numbered for the slope.James has worked with them many times before..Same with the people we buy our roof EPDM from we have put in a few roof systems in our years,, LOL. James has been in construction for close to 40 years including the alternative building..
This house we have only had a few gopher challenges, his other home was more out in a wildlife preserve which was the one that had the serious problems.The deer jumping on the house are more of a problem,That is why we added the extra blue board for protection over the epdm.I looked at the expanded shale but really did not like it.We have used some of it on projects before..I have a plant addiction ,,LOL really the roof gardens look beautiful and do what they need to..
The culverts, the 14 ft one is looking good the 22 ft one has settled in and dropped about 6 inches. Yes it could be from previous use.We have not been to concerned about it as a good jack and adding in a bit more support inside if need be will fix it.We may be moving it sometime soon to build a work space over against the rocks where it is located.
Our culverts are both sitting on a gravel bed, with about 3 foot of compacted clay soil on top of them, One has a greenhouse on it and a stone wall on the side with my potting shed attached.The other is under the road going to our chicken coop and driven on all the time..Our culverts were used in great condition.The owner just wanted them hauled out which was quite the chore to do.The thing about gravel and stone is the weight it brings.Structurally our home can handle a 4 inch layer of gravel on the roof which was what many places put on commercial flat roof structures.. At James other home they tried several methods for the gophers, from having gravel to planting grass, then to gassing the little buggers..The damage if they get through the epdm is a nasty surprise come a rainy season..They were getting the home ready to sale so the only other option was to bring in the ice and water shield then do the tile roof..It made the banks much happier as well since they are not to sure about lending on homes like these.
We have this type of roof and have installed it many times.Not sure about your location but yes there is tape you can buy as well as different types of repair glues and patches if your using second hand epdm roofing.We get ours from a roofing store close to us,,
Personally when we were building we looked directly at what happens if a leak occurs there was no way I was going to risk having construction plastics as my roof system..LOL they are fine on my greenhouse and I have a 10 mil not a 6 mil on it right now and still have sticks go through it ..You will be much happier putting out money for the epdm in the long run..Our house has new on it but we also have some from a job that is being re-purposed to the strawbale house going on the hillside..
We have a 7 ft diameter by 22 ft culvert for a root cellar as well as a 14 ft one for a storage area..We have had a few issues one of course has been a bit of settling that has flattened the top side a bit on the larger one..We did not cover these with a liner as they are makeshift so we have also found some how that water has leaked in,, Most likely from over at the end where we have a block wall and the vent piping..The smaller culvert seems to handle things much better it is under the road way up to our chicken house..Hopefully someday it will become the steam room it is meant to be..
Here is our home which is basically like living in a basement ,Not totally underground housing but similar .
Guess what we have built is kind of a fancy version of this..
For what it is worth we have a concrete slab floor with built in radiant heat that can be heated with the wood boiler or soon to be vaporizing used oil boiler. Windows on east wall only, North and west are in the hills side with french drains installed ,East walls and in house are composed mainly of stone which works as a heat sink,ICF walls with epdm liner to ensure no leaks or the hillside coming through the back wall,,Roof structure very large beams rough cut lumber and beams from a local small saw mill kiln dried to limit twisting which will still occur,,,, insulated with a foam package with 6% slope instead of the carboard newspaper etc,, Covered with epdm as well, Followed up with blue board and a planted roof to protect against accidental damage by people and animals on the roof,, Gophers love roofs with soil on top and will go through the epdm liners.Note animals can be a problem when one is built into a hill side with a green roof...That Thump thump thump is not santa and his reindeer.....
.Our home is built way above code.It is was not designed by an engineer nor architect .We did all the design ourselves.It is also considered high end some also due to location...The county considers it basically a daylight basement or a berm home they tax us less then a conventional home.The insurance is a bit more challenging to get on a home like this especially one worth what ours has been appraised at..
Our place was built with very limited funds but by very creative people.James had previously built and owned solar passive homes in the past. We do use 2 fans to move the air, no air conditioning needed house holds temp at about 65 to 70,Heating in cold winter in Montana, set the thermostat at 54 and the inside of the house will stay a steady 72-74 degrees,,
We are in a way considered more of a Usonian home built into a hillside..
We have a grove of Purple robe black locust growing in the landscape that is very pretty and blooming right now,Have never used it for mulch I am hoping to grow it large enough for some of my art wood work pieces,In the meantime it looks nice other then sending out a crazy amount of runners when the main tree was blown partially over.Which is typical for its reproduction,,LOL,,Just not fond of some of the places it is showing up,,like next to the fire pit and in my mixed herbal/flower beds ..
Dropped my son an e-mail will be down with him this weekend..I am not sure if he does the more local (Ronan & Polson) farmers markets because he has not always been impressed with the selections,,LOL Mom spoiled him through the years with what to expect I guess.He found the Farmers Market in Missoula and fell in love about 10 or so years ago when mom was no longer close enough with her garden for him to raid..He just does not have the time to grow his own and as he has found out the bears where he lives can make it more challenging then usual if your all organic...
The pick your own is something he is good at or used to be after growing up having to help harvest all kinds of weird things in the gardens and on mountain tops,,
Thanks , looking forward to meeting you sometime..
Just realized after getting attacked that if they keep growing out of hand I may have some black locust trees as well.Kicker to these is I do not have the time nor energy to dig them and anyone who may wish to will have to tip toe through my tulips and hundreds of other plants
Nice to see you here.We still need to make an effort to get down and have enough time to swing by for a tour. Got kids that live down there.. Any chance you may be marketing to individuals.The son goes to Missoula for the big market every Saturday to buy his weeks worth of veges...But he works in Pablo at the skc...He may be interested in having a closer to home market for some of his foods.
You talked on the phone with James
Have a good one
Mary and James
We used to make Native american tipis do not any more.
I would be happy to share the basic pattern or I guess if others really wanted help a group make one..
Here is my favorite company to recommend because I know their work and helped them with their very first tipi..They are also out of Polson Montana and native american.
We have a couple of seed grown Montana apricot trees in containers That we are potting up into larger containers.We would be happy to share.We also may have some small grape cuttings to share which have survived one winter and also being potted up .If interested I will set some aside.Not fond of mailing such things this time of the year.. but could possibly drop them down sometime or have someone pick them up if they are in the Rollins/Lakeside area.
You know I have never owned bear spray. Guns yes wild life scare shot is great, basically sounds like a bottle rocket.Salt shells, Rubber slugs I have used on griz before.Fish and game supplied coloured paint shot as well.Three shades to mark the blacks so we would know how often they were coming in.Some days we would have more then 8 visits from blacks.
I lived and hiked in the Mission Mountains in heavy grizzly and pain in the rear black bear territory for over 30 years.My boys grew up running the creek bottom with the bear and yes they slept outside and never got snacked on..Awe yes and the husband had been a game warden and trapped hundreds of bears.
You learn to live with them in the surroundings.Once one learns how to handle their garbage and foods it gets easier.Our kids learned this one year when they left some crackers in the tee pee when we ran to town..Came home to find the teepee wall ripped open.They never left food in their sleeping areas outside again. Awe and this was at our house which is on a creek that is considered the most travelled grizzly bear trail in the mission mountains as it leads down to the Kicking Horse and Ninepipes feeding areas.
Grizzlies stink, I mean really stink, you guys think your bone sauce smells bad,, You can smell them before you see them in brushy areas.In our years of living in their natural areas our family only had a few run ins with the griz,one a large male after a snack food baby bear that tried to hide on our back staircase.The niece ran over a cub being chased by a big male on the road in the fall. The other the usual after garbage during the fall feeding frenzy.Awe fall feeding frenzy key words here this is when the bears are aggressive.The neighbour had one trying to get into their home they put up a prison fence and electric barb wire .Griz males will kill females and cubs during this time as well oh and they have no problem stealing deer as my son found out after shooting one for dry meat or taking out people (hunters in the post creek area).Singing works much better then bells,,LOL the more off key the better.The surprise factor is what makes them more aggressive.
You will come to find black bears are a huge pain in the rear once they find food or garbage.I found some of them far more aggressive then the griz.Best thing to do right off is build a nice well anchored large container to store garbage if your not going to be able to haul it off daily.oh yea make sure the door is a good one as well.The kids tried to use their porch a few years ago and ended up with a black bear stuck in there after pushing the screen door inside making it non open-able.Yea yea they have those fancy smaancy bear proof garbage cans hahaha unless they are enclosed in an electric fence you will find yourself wondering around the area searching the damn things down since they will drag them off. They also will occasionally steal a barbecue small table top ones not cleaned they love..But hey we once had a large male take one of the big grills down a steep embankment.Hanging meat in trees is always a gamble as well..They love brain hide tanning stench and will steal the entire stretched hide in frame work.Open doors or windows in the house they will walk in especially when cooking stinkin menudo.Outside canning same thing..The kids have a door frame that has been ripped by a bear trying to get into their house.
Then we move into other areas, Say composting,we used the bears to turn ours, if they were going to be in it they may as well flip it. Bone sauce is not a deterrent for bears as they love most bad smelling things you may want to test it and make sure it will not draw them in..Bone meal and blood meal used as a fertilizer may be dug up and the soil licked or ate that has the smells.Ummm bio-dynamic fertilizers will be tipped over bathed in and drank..Fish fertilizer is a tasty snack treat they just bite open the bottles and rip the seedlings apart looking for the smell.Out in the gardens mulch that gives off any stink like grass, straw etc as it breaks down another thing they will dig in.Animal feeds, and animals, we lost 7 chickens to 2 bears last year up here on the lake.Fish ponds are an open bathing area that provides snack food, pending on the liner if you have a visit you may need to watch for repairs, and yes this includes clay based..They are scavengers anything that smells will bring them in...I guess you get the point...
Some things that can help the human pee supposedly helps by marking out ones territory,Never saw results even though I had every man and boy at the house doing it...Around camps and such you can string lines with cans or big bells what ever that makes noises, it will work the first couple of times.Like deer they get used to noises and smells very quickly.I found that the wildlife scare shot was my favourite thing or fireworks, they did not like firecrackers tossed into water buckets nor the bottle rockets..Once you have your garbage situation figured out, food stores , the kitchen and animal feeds you really should be fine..The best thing really is like the deer get a nice big old Newfoundland or a nasty mean donkey, to take care of the perimeter..We had miniature weenie dogs that would tree bears and mountain lions just as well as the big hounds did.The bears would still show up with the dogs but would not hang around as long doing damage..Awe and a side note bear that has been eating garbage taste like garbage...
We had planned on building straw bale until we bought our land, even had the bales sitting at our storage yard.The hillside brought about change in plans.Straw bale being much cheaper then what we chose would of been nicer on the pocket book but would of came with many problems.The west and north sides of our home are buried into the hillside.We have a French drain system to help with any water run off from the hillside that feeds down into the gardens.Where our home is located we knew we had to have strong wall not only to support the amount of gravel and earth against it but also to support our timber roof structure.We chose to use ICFs for this which are reinforced according to code and zoning regs.We also have the epdm system that is on the roof wrapped down to the slab and sealed so that we have no leakage.We work with stone and stucco all the time with out a good barrier product there is not way the straw bales would last in our situation.So I would not recommend others do it that way either.Living in a home like this I can say the expense of not having it properly sealed along the back walls and the roof would be very costly,
That one is interesting.I have grown nematodes before for my soil health.I do know the slugs can be uh hmmmmm quite aromatic when they die.And sit a bit..LOL and people think my use of dead deer is a bit over the top to keep them away..We will experiment with a small part of the garden.For us the hand picking and storage could become a serious stink factor though since we can hand pick them by the gallons out of our large garden and not make a dent in the population.Not sure where we could store that much stinkiness..LOL, We have a combination of methods going, Lately we have added in using flour around the plants as well
If one looks at the definition of fecal matter it refers to solids..If I was to have any type of fecal matter showing from my home to my drainfield then I would be out where it surfaced with a back hoe to find out why I have human poo showing up that should be contained in my septic tank.With some systems like ours they require an alarm system that lets you know your tank is compromised and not moving the Effluent out....Fecal Matter is what settles into the tank.
It has the same basic concerns as the human fecal matter in the garden..
A properly running septic system has septic tank effluent which is what is discharged into the drain field to filter.Effluent is liquid based and if the system is flowing correctly this goes down through the sands and gravels it should not surface anywhere.Yes if you read on line about septic drain fields and such or talk to anyone in the sanitation department they will mention the potential risk of bacteria that can cause illness on foods grown there.They do not seem to mention that when one puts a big lawn over the drain field that it is has the potential to cause the same problems if your children are out rolling in the grass playing.Which yes they do.
I know what goes down my septic system,LOL I also know people who compost and grow using their own bathroom by products .It still comes down to a personal preference I believe.I am far more concerned about those people who put out money for some of these organic soil and compost mixtures like the one made here in Mt that is made from many peoples poo..
Seems like there has to be some odd things left from construction,,LOL we get calls quite often to fix mess ups...Each state and even counties and zoning areas have different septic and drain field specs.The people who install in the areas know most of them by heart and will usually explain if any one asks..You will be much happier continuing with the raised beds.So much less hassle over the drain fields..
Yes we do straw bale have for over 5 years.We love it..We have been teaching it in our area for 4 years..I used to have over an acre garden which was so much work.The straw bale are easy for us to use, take less time out of our lives once they are planted..LOL we are also lazy gardeners even though we have over 10thousand sq feet of various types of gardens in..
Con, there are quite a few alternatives that we have used..I don't have time to do an big list right now.It really is surprising what is available but also old techniques from days gone by come into play as well.I will try and get a few pictures in of the place we have been working on..
,,,Our vege garden is on our drain field. We live in a similar situation to yours.The only available flat space for our vegetable garden was our drain field.We do alternative gardening here in straw bale which basically is raised beds in a sense.I am not sure if I am understanding this correctly but you want to start to put in rows. If you do these in a raised bed fashion it is not a problem..However if you are talking about breaking out the tiller and doing a conventional garden row, it gets more complicated. It is not just what goes down the drain but the drain field itself is designed in certain ways to handle it. Not sure what type of drain field you have but with ours there is a limit to how much soil can be placed upon it, how much water can be passed through it for drainage with out causing soft spots and over flows , etc..Mine is also in a clay and stone base that does not allow extra water to pass through easily.So the raised beds on it give us more control to not keep it from the saturation point that can become a problem with the septic itself.We also graded a very slight slope into our drain field area to carry extra water off it through our stone fence and down to our grapes and a nettle garden.
I would check with those who install the drain fields in your area who are familiar with the your type of system to find out the specs they had had to install the system to for the sanitation department..They may be able to tell you more about whether you can disturb the layering and topsoil of the drain field..
How about this Peter,
We have gardened organic since we were a child,, So that is a long time,,LOL,,We have always basically "greened our home" in a sense no matter what we lived in.
When we were finally able to build our own home we built it around our lifestyle.Green, organic as possible, using as much local sources as possible etc...Our home show cases what we do from the gardens on the outside to the hundred or so plants growing indoors to the green roof..
We love building with recycled and re-purposed materials. Our own home is composed of quite a mixture of reused.We also tear down old buildings to have materials for this purpose..One of our favourite jobs has been for friends who chose to reuse an old cherry barn.Which is a far cry from being square but it is very structurally sound.They had tons of old woods laying in the tall grass left there by previous owners.We built a structure with in the structure basically and utilized most of the woods they had available.Those that were not structurally sound became deco pieces adding character..Paul saw this one in progress when he stayed in Rollins for the Dayton permaculture adventure.It kept the cost down for the owners and allowed us to have a blast being creative..Even the old sleigh that was laying on the property became a large light fixture for their entry way..Love working with people like this..
We have something similar in the plans.James my other half is the one who has the details down...Just need to get some time to get it together..
What we have is an old coal boiler system which connects up to a large insulated hot water storage tank (both recycled) We have radiant heat through out our home so we are hoping to get the system to run that .We still need to put another roll of pex in the storage tank to handle our domestic hot water as well.We are hoping to run the house heat , at least one of the greenhouses and perhaps the straw bale sleeping cabin we have planned with this heating system,, If it works well we have a smaller wood fired boiler system coming from an old homestead milking barn that we hope to run the radiant tubes through my work studio and heat as well,,The hope is to also change that over to the waste oils..I will have to connect him up with you to talk shop,,LOl we are up in the Flathead..
Huh,,,, Huckleberry Pie,, no no no ,,,,,,.ya ya ya we make huckleberry pie, huckleberry jam , bar-b-que sauce --- yadda yadda yadda,, this year huckleberry wine toooo,, but really you want to adventure out try out habenero fudge brownies with huckleberry pie filling on top and some vanilla ice cream...
You get a bit more creative when you have had huckberries all your life what can we say...
I guess we are probably some of those not enjoying the changes,, LOL I am actually finding this format to be a simplified pain in the ass unless I use the search agent for everything.....Not even quite sure where we fit into posting for some things now days...LOL that is the bitch whine and moan of the evening from us..Gone into the gardens and working for a bit come back in this was a surprise....Sure we will adjust,,,
If you want our help in the Mineral county area we need details...The family goes back a couple of generations down there and everyone knows everyone.Our family holds a fairly large private ranch in the area...But with out some actual concepts of funding we cannot even begin to check into the private none listed lands through the family...
We have a small piece for sale down in the area on the river at Tarkio.
But not sure about any larger pieces ..The family may know of something or someone if you can give me an idea of preferred pricing..