Scots John wrote:My God those traps look barbaric!!!
I know what you mean.
I’m not a massive fan of killing stuff myself. But the locals do this to protect the crops and veggies. They just trap the deer kill them and bury them. So we decided to start eating them. Thought it was too much of a waste.
As for the traps themselves, they are using spring loaded wire traps the grab the deer by the foot. The plate part you see is not like the old bear traps with big jagged teeth like you are probably thinking. The plate just holds the wire open after it’s been spring loaded.
🦌🙏🏽🦌
Sorry I am not much use helping you with your stove but thanks for your comment above, where I live in Scotland, you could go to prison for using such a trap but shooting deer with a guide is far more exceptable !
Some people travel from all over the World to shoot Red deer and they can pay a £1000.00 a day to hire a guide and the privilege to do so!
At least you are making an effort to eat the deer, looks like a big one too!
Your new barrel extension will make cooking difficult otherwise you could sear your venison on top of the barrel.
Hi, I have been looking at the forum for a few years and I have a couple of questions…
It seems that the J tube became very popular on the forum around 10 years ago and the standard method was to use a barrel and a piped bench.
I have read hundreds of post but I dont see anything about the placement of the riser in the barrel, I mean does it have to go in the middle? Does it work best with the riser in the middle?
If so then the popular formular of 124 or on a 6” system 8” deep fire box 16 tunnel and 32” heat riser wont put the riser in the middle of a 23” barrel and still have room to feed the wood?
If I want to make sure the riser is in the middle for say cooking purposes than you would need a 10.5” high fire box 21” long fire box and tunnel and a 42” tall riser and that wont fit in a single barrel?
Also I read that the shorter the tunnel the better!
I know the J tube has lost some popularity in recent years but as a cooking stove it still seems like the best option for me.
So I wonder if there is a way to get the riser in the middle of a single barrel, could I use a angled riser or perhaps cut out the bottom of the barrel somehow to feed the wood ?
I may be wrong as I am far from experienced but I am sure that if you are following PVB rocket stove dimensions, it is not recommended to shorten the riser?
Also I think granite is prone to cracking and I would think you might need more than 25mm of fibre ?
I think that ‘what makes a good pizza’ is a subjective subject and for many people it would have to come out of a wood fired brick floor oven.
Not to say others would completely disagree and may consider the opposite to be the best!
My neighbour is a very vocal, Italian gentleman and I know what he would say ha ha…
Nice video, this forum has many hundreds of post stating that steel wont last in a rocket stove so your video is an interesting one.
As far as I can work out, if you insulate the fire box and heat riser the temperature will get so hot the metal will quickly deteriorate but if you don’t insulate then the fire will not burn very cleanly.
However it seems to me that metal rocket stoves have a strong presence and are by far the most popular.
Yours is a good example of how a metal rocket stove can be used successfully for many years.
That really does look cool,I would love to see a walk around video?
Kiln dried wood only has a low moisture content for as long as it is not exposed to moisture, perhaps try a different batch of wood, hardwood maybe?
I would assume the water is condensation caused by moisture inside the stove, so the moisture has to come from somewhere.
I know that fire bricks can hold a lot of water but after 5 burns it should at least be diminishing.
Well I would say that depends on your definition of failure?
Lots of people, probably thousands, are very happy to use their less than optimum rockets stoves?
If you build a device that satisfies your needs how can that be failure?
Don’t get me wrong as I am also extremely interested in progress and development to obtain the best possible function it’s just that I don’t see any issues with folk doing their own thing especially if it is fun.
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Joe Danielek wrote:Heating secondary combustion air is energy intensive robbing heat from the system, in my opinion providing excess combustion air better serves your end means.
Cyclone separator is going to rob or more correctly add to much friction for the system to perform correctly. It greatly diminishes volicity that which drops ash.
I wonder if what you are saying really matters ?
Some people might just enjoy carrying out their ideas regardless if it is not an already tried and tested design or perhaps the glass feed ideas looks nice and that is more important than ultimate performance?
I love to read about folks interesting ideas and their journey to see how it comes out.
In the U.K. I can find insulating 1200c mix for around £30 for a 25kg bag or £35 for 1400c .
I like your ideas based around a cyclone vortex, that concept is used in both marine aquariums and Koi pond filtration units.
I have seen double glass used to feed air in Foxfish videos so it can be done successfully.
The issues I see might be the overall height of the fire box and if the lower part is actually needed ?
I really like the ideas of the top part of your diagram but in any case I look forward to seeing how your ideas develop.
Thank you for posting your updates, it is interesting to see what you are trying to achieve.
In your mind are there any benefits with making your DIY foam cement mix over buying a commercial insulating refractory mix?
It is the cost or improved performance ?
A quick update, I managed to contact fox James via Facebook and he sent me this video and answered a few of my questions.
I do like his vortex j tube especially the glass air feed viewing window although I am still not sure about ceramic fibre and my grand children ?
Being logical about it I can’t really see how a ceramic core and riser could possibly effect anyone inside my summerhouse but my main mistake was telling the wife about the potential dangers!
She is right on the case now!!
I don’t particularly want a full size barrel in my space but I am inspired by the design at least something to think about?
Gerry thank you for explaining thermal overload, I am still not convinced about the safety expects of ceramic fibre, in the U.K. we can get body soluble ceramic matting but not body soluble ceramic board.
Satamax, thank you for the links and the accent!
That is a shame about Fox James his work looks great!
I won’t be retiring until the end of summer so I may wait until there is more development from Peters new project, in the meantime I will keep studying the forum.
Thank you for your reply Peter, I am not a member of that forum but I have read about your new design.
Yes that is the sort of thing I would like, a compact stove with a interesting visual effects!
Like I have said I would love the vortex stove but it seems to be a bit sensitive unless you follow the builders exact overall stove design?
Your new version looks very promising but is not actually finished, perhaps I should just wait and see how it turns out.
Ok thank you for the info, I am probably over reading to much but I thought I read that placing logs on top of coals causes thermal overload (not that I know what that means) and smoke?
Anyhow if my low chimney will work that is something but it does not resolve the problem of the riser height and therefore the cooking top surface.
Also that will only apply if the batchbox is sat on the ground so the fire won’t really be very visible.
Mats designs all seem to use ceramic fibre in the fire box, is that really a good idea? It just seems to me that it will wear down with abrasion and is it not dangerous for your lungs being ‘non body soluble’ so micro fibres can rest in your body for years and then cause major health issues?
Sorry if I seem negative, I honestly appreciate your help I just want to be clear on certain things.
I have watched hundreds of YouTube videos (probably not that many but my wife tells me I have) I love this guys Vortex stove but I am very interested in his old stove at the beginning of this video. What type of stove is that it looks more like the sort of thing I had in mind but I don’t think it has a visible fire?
Thanks Gerry but I really am limited to a 10’ high chimney as it exists from the centre of my 14 x 12’ summerhouse and it just would look awful and out of place it it was any higher.
The summer house is a ready made wooden construction, concrete base with a centre BBQ and a hood over the BBQ and a short chimney that sicks up about 3’ above the roof.
So I can extend the chimney down but not really go any higher.
So I want a central feature stove and hot plate that won’t pour out blue smoke, all the windows open up for the summer but we can get a lot of cold windy weather in the winter with a quite a lot of snow on occasions so we would still like to use the summer house in the winter (winter house!)
Anyway I am not sure if you can add wood into Mats stove or if you have to wait for the coals to die right down?
I have been studying the forum for a few months and I have been thinking about the options available to me to build a rocket stove for my outside summer house.
I live in Scotland and we can actually have quite nice summer weather !
However I would like to extend the season by adding a little heat into our little summer house.
What I mainly want is a cooking plate to use in place of a smokey BBQ but it would also be nice to have some radiant heat too.
So I have considered a batch box and I was very interested in a vortex stove but I see issues with both of these.
It seems to me the batch box is well tested and designed, well documented and will burn very hot, very fast and very clean but ‘A’ it has a tall riser that would make a hot plate difficult to cook on and ‘B’ the fire only burns for approx one hour, and then goes to coals so not good for cooking on?
The vortex stove looks fantastic but seems a little bit fickle and difficult to set up but I also think it, like all riser less designs needs a strong chimney draft .. ie a tall chimney? I would really love a vortex stove but I don’t think it is developed quite enough at this time?
As I don’t want a tall chimney sticking out of my summer house, I will be limited to about 10’ from the floor to the chimney top.
So I think a J tube might be the best bet, it would be a compromise as I would of preferred to see the fire and I think I might still have to sink the fire box into the floor so the hot plate will not be to high?
However from what I have read I would be able to keep the fire going for as long as I want as long as I feed the fire every 15 minutes so I can cook all day long and perhaps even regulate the temperature? I don’t think there is any other designs that can offer this?
I am open to any suggestions or comments.
I want to build a professional looking and reliable stove with a large hot plate to cook steaks burgers etc
I would be able to build virtually any shape mold or form to produce my stove as formwork is my day job, I am prepared to invest a reasonable amount of money as I will soon be retiring and I intend to party!
Would a a completely round section J tube work as well or perhaps even better than a square section? Or more to the point is there any benefit for casting a round section J tube ?
Hi Thomas, that sounds great I have followed your builds and your stove sounds perfect for your workshop.
Honestly I don’t really know much about rocket stove, only what I read!
I am sure Peter said his batch box is like a race horse and designed to burn fast and furious especially compared to Trevor’s Vortex design.
Peter seems to be presently developing his own version of the vortex stove (I am sure it will be great) and I think I read that he was surprised how long the design would burn?
I just thought it would look nice in someone’s lounge as the double vortex must be fascinating to watch and the long burn might be convenient but I really don’t know if it would be a better choice than a batch box?
Yes I agree but it also burns for quite a bit longer than most rocket stoves, it looks like the fire can last up to two hours rather than one hour of the batch box?
I am impatiently waiting to see how that last one in the video turns out....
Reading between the lines I think a lot of these top range stoves are very expensive to build?
I think you miss read my reply to your answer... I was suggesting the the presently available Dragon core was expensive and I was also suggesting some figures that they might of experienced while manufacturing the product!
I would of through their mold is a multi use structural construction and would of cost quite a lot of money?
Yes those type of vibrators do not work particularly well with dry mixes and as far as I know, refectory is mixed very dry?
I did not say it would not work as I don’t actually know that but casting course dry mixes and expecting good results with fine detail would normally require a high frequency vibrating table?
I was not implying anything negative about your model!
Scots John wrote:Looks cool, I can see the potential for casting intricate shapes but one would need a high frequency vibrating table to produce a good end product.
Are Dragon rocket stoves still being made?
Somewhere on Peter's site (or somewhere) is instructions on how to make a vibrating table. They are indispensable for casting cores.
Dragon stoves are still being made, but for the $1100 price tag, I can think of a lot of ways around buying one. That's just me though, I rarely buy something I can build. I can justify a lot of development costs and tooling to figure it out for myself for that price.
Hmm that is quite expensive, especially as the average rocket stove builder seems to be on a tight budget!
I am only guessing but, perhaps there would of been around $1500 2000 investment for a proper vibrating table, $5000 for the mold construction and $100 of refactory for each unit?
I don’t have much experience with casting ‘refractory’ cement but I work as a formwork engineer on large building sites and I did train with the use of vibrating tables, (35 years ago) I think the version of table you mentioned is based around an offset shaft electric motor that tend to shake rather than vibrate the cement, they would probably work ok but would not settle a dry mix very well.
Great work in any case....
Looks cool, I can see the potential for casting intricate shapes but one would need a high frequency vibrating table to produce a good end product.
Are Dragon rocket stoves still being made?
I do a lot of cold smoking during the summer moths, mainly mackerel but over the years I have smoked a huge variety of products ... cheese, chillies, garlic, all sorts of meat, fish and lobster etc.
My set up is really basic but extremely effective as long as you have the time to attend the fire.
I don’t have any photos to hand but I will attempt to describe the process ... basically I use a medium size oven pan and place that on a concrete block on the ground. Light a briquette BBQ in the pan and wait until it is white, then add small blocks of oak like kindling size or any off cuts I have, on top of the coals, I soak the oak for about 10 minutes in water beforehand.
I them put a large cardboard box over the pan and block, I use a flexible 100mm tumble drier hose (the metal type) to link the bottom cardboard box to an upper cardboard box that sits on a table alongside.
Inside the top box I place my food on racks and that is it... a very effective cold smoker ...
You need to tend the fire and add briquettes and wood every hour or so.
You can then throw away (recycle) the boxes and get more for next time.
I think I understand what you are thinking about, water glass seems to work very well on a more porous surface that allows it to soak in a little.
There are many people who use it on ceramic fibre board to great effect.
There may be different grades of water glass (I don’t know).
I think you also intend to use the cement board as an exterior finish over the insulation and I think that would work fine.
There are quite a few fire rated cement board products available in the U.K. some are rated to extremely high temperature but only for a limited time like a few hours.
I don’t think you can reduce the system size heat riser on a J tube design but you could use a riserless design like a Vortex stove or a shoe box design then you don’t need a barrel at all.
Wow that looks fantastic, very professional and it is made from metal!
I have seen lots of great looking metal rocket stoves but this forum seems to really hate them!
Just to be clear, the guy I was talking about used ceramic woven cloth and not carbon cloth and he subsidised epoxy resin for a water glass product all supplied
by victas U.K.
The idea was to line a riser bore with a smooth finish and stop any partials escaping... all I can say was it looked very professional and tidy.
Is there an official recognition for the term rocket stove?
I just ask as there are thousands and thousands of some type of rocket stove that have no insulation?
I think there are some well known builders like Yasmin and others who don’t like or use ceramic fibre especially if there in an in line black oven, even insulating bricks have issues with breaking down and polluting particles .
I also see a few of the batch box variants without insulated fire boxes but with insulated afterburners.
I know Matt Walker is a huge fan of ceramic fibre but there are other builders who are not so smitten.
Of course I don’t actually know anything through experience just from reading so I could easily be wrong!
As I understand it, if you just used firebrick with no backing insulation then what would happen is, the fire would keep heating the bricks until the heat saturated the brick, at that point they would not get any hotter because the brick is now loosing heat to the air.
If you use insulation then once the brick reaches saturation point the insulation stops it escaping so... the brick gets hotter?
