I find it useful to compare the cost allowing for the different amounts of protein in the food.
Here's a chart I made last year to help me decide which sources are best value. I have to restrict my carbohydrate intake so there's quite an emphasis on low-carb protein sources but I included some peas and beans too. The chart is arranged in order of the cheapest per 100g protein.
protein cost per 100g
yellow beans - €1.40 per kilo, 60c per 100g protein
beef heart - €2 per kilo, 70c per 100g protein
beef protein isolate - 22c per dose, 74c per 100g protein.
chicken leg - €1.50 per kilo, 80 c per 100g protein
soy beans - €3.33 per liko, 83 c per 100g protein
pea protein - 20c per dose, 84c per 100g protein
soy protein - 24c per serving, 88c per 100g protein
milk protein - 24c per serving, 88c per 100g protein
chicken liver - €1.50 per kilo , 88 c per 100g protein
split green peas - €2.50 per kilo, €1.09 per 100g protein
split red lentils - €2.79 per kilo, €1.15 per 100g protein
sardines - €2.39 per kilo, €1.26 per 100g protein
flavoured whey - 33c per dose, €1.36 per 100g protein
whey powder - 34c per dose, €1.44 per 100g protein
pork - €4.00 per kilo, €2.00 per 100g protein
cheese - €5.00 per kilo, €2.08 per 100g protein
linseed - €4.00 per kilo, €2.10 per 100g protein
whole milk - 74 c per litre, €2.24 per 100g protein
frozen fish - €4.00 per kilo, €2.22 per 100g protein
eggs - €1.89 per dozen, €2.25 per 100g protein
soy milk - 85 c per litre, €2.42 per 100g protein
chourico - €4.89 per kilo, €2.71 per 100g protein
frozen peas - €1.69 per kilo, €2.84 per 100g protein
chia - €6.60 per kilo, €3.30 per 100g protein
tuna - 65 c per tin, €3.67 per 100g protein
I'm eating a lot of beef heart (known in this family as bee-fart, I just checked in case I called it that in the chart...) this autumn, and not much tuna! Some things, like linseed (flax-seed) and chia I eat for the fibre, and mostly I don't eat beans because I can't cope with the carbs.
John Weiland wrote:
It's one thing to put an engine head on the space sanctified for dining, but to remove the valve cover!......... Where is Miss Manners when you need her?!
Well that was the old head which gave out rather spectacularly on a French motorway half way back to the UK.
Here's the shiny new one! On a kitchen chair, because the table was full...
Valve cover had to come off so he could pull the valves out to put in the new one. This was a couple of years ago and the Pajero it belongs to is still running well. Though I now know at least one reason why 'Pajero' is considered a rude word in Spain...
I sent a load of perennial Portuguese galega seed over to the states once in the hope that it would be distributed and at least someone would save seed and share it around. *Someone* ought to have some still!
Don't speak to the thousands of potential viewers.
Speak to the ONE person who you're trying to reach. 'See' them the other side of the camera. Make eye contact with them. Not some random person, one actual living, breathing, personal friend who really will watch your video and hear your words and respond to you.
What I do varies very much according to the time of year and what else is going on.
If it's summertime and I just want a cup of tea made using the electric kettle, then yes, I'll boil the exact amount I want in the kettle.
In the wintertime, when the woodstove is running, I'll boil the biggest kettle full of water on the stove and have left-overs for washing dishes or myself or the laundry.
In spring and autumn when I want hot water for washing dishes, I'll often heat up enough in the electric kettle to provide enough to do that after I've had my cuppa. In the middle of summer I can draw hot water from the tap outside as the pipes heat up in the sun so I don't need the kettle to heat it for washing.
My mother always measured the water into the kettle, but she also always had a tank full of hot water for washing other things. I suspect it's more economical to not have that hot water tank on a thermostat but to heat up just what you need when you need it.
The turbine has no more impact on another vehicle than you do when you stand by the side of the road.
I winced when I read that because it sounded like a very carefully worded way to dodge facts and figures. So I asked a friend of mine who was an aeronautical engineer who used to design super-sonic aircraft. I figured if anyone would know about this stuff, he would.
He said yes they would make a difference, but not a significant one. I asked him how insignificant. He replied that if he punched the figures into a calculator, the amount of energy used by the calculator would be greater than the difference to the fuel consumption caused by the turbines standing on the roadside.
Michael Dotson wrote: I don't do the velvet glove thing.
Ah, but here you might have to.
Permies is "a place for gentle souls to discuss permaculture and homesteading". Which means that we expect members to communicate in such a way that the gentler folk who can't take the iron rods or the turds or the harsh jokes don't get frightened off and stop sharing their wisdom.
It's a fine line (OK, a near impossible line) to tread, and an exhausting nightmare to moderate.
I'm going to bump up the Be Nice thread, which I think has stuff in it that explains the problems. That's the place to take further questions.
Victoria Jankowski wrote: I am wondering if there might be any advantage in purposefully introducing a very little bit of round-up ready corn and soybeans to our land race just as a measure of protection from crop failures if our neighbors have accidents, or there is drift we cannot account for.
Round-up ready is GMO and therefore not a fit thing to discuss on permies, except in the toxic-gick section of the cider press.
When I got mine, he'd recently been rescued from being shut in a cage 24/7 for around 7 months and had learned to pee and poop in the cage.
I would take him outside and pee outside myself. He would copy. I would make sure I stayed close to him indoors (cage in the house, because it was the only place he felt secure - I suspect he'd been dragged out of it and beaten - he still has issues about wanting to stay in his safe-cage) so I could hear if he made wanting-to-poop signs, then I would take him out and squat (no, not poop, just squat) and he'd copy.
Chris Kott wrote:
Do you still do many deletions daily? I hope it isn't still a huge time hog.
They happen in spurts.
It was much, much worse before we created the cider press. Once upon a time we allowed discussion, but it became apparent that every single thread eventually turned bad. Then we banned discussion of it altogether, then we created the cider press so it could be discussed by anyone who had proved their worth by earning enough apples and not being enough of a pain that someone on staff (who, me?) got pissed off enough to take all the apples away again. There have been times that I've got so annoyed with the time suck of moderating someone that I've taken every single one away to slow them down again.
Michael Dotson wrote:
For the sake of all Permies everywhere I rescind my suggestion of a chatroom! 🙂
You have no idea how relieved I am to hear that!
What you see on the public face of permies.com is the result of a crazy amount of hard work behind the scenes keeping the scammers and trolls and bullies and holier-than-thous and I'm-always-righters under control.
Should probably admit that the main tools are less 'pacifiers' and more 'rods of iron', sometimes with velvet gloves, sometimes not. Mine got worn out years ago with too many behind-the-scenes spankings...
Beets usually make a big root the first year, then seed the second year.
I think if you try to force them to bolt the first year, it won't be terribly successful. And the few that you do succeed with will then be far more likely to have offspring that bolt easily instead of putting their effort into making a root. You'd be effectively selecting for not producing the root. Which might not be what you want long term!
Why not just buy some washing soda? Then the left-overs can be used to do your laundry, or clean the cooker, or the floor, or the sink, or for your room-mates to experiment with instead of their usual detergent? I'm not sure if anyone has tried the BB with wood ash yet but I have a feeling that would qualify.
I buy it in 1kg bags for not much over a euro and it gets used for all sorts of things. The idea of the BBs is to get you to experiment and educate others as you learn, not to cut corners and try to manipulate the decisions.
Joseph Lofthouse wrote:I am conducting an experiment this summer to observe whether the seed-coat color of beans varies depending on ancestry.
I'm pretty sure that when Steve Jones was studying the genetics of shell pattern in snails he found out that it was controlled by the grandparents, not the parents. Just to throw a potential spanner in the works of unravelling the mysteries. I'll see if I can find a link.
B Lunaress wrote: I'm not fond of wasting resources, & since dish soap's primary purpose is as a de-greaser, & I wasn't de-greasing anything, using dish soap would be wasteful & counter to permaculture values, as I understand it.
Maybe you should re-do the BB when you DO have something that needs de-greasing. What do you use for washing greasy things at the moment?
I could do a similar rant for certain family members after my husband died but I'm not going to, mostly for the sake of my sanity.
Instead I'm going to show the other side of the coin. My mother died recently. It was sudden and unexpected and with the covid restrictions I couldn't get back to the UK for the funeral or the house clearance. My cousin stepped up to the plate, drove down there, failed to find a will so assumed everything would go to me. He located the local funeral director and confirmed that she had a pre-paid funeral plan. He worked with a friend of mine to clear the house and send anything I didn't want to a tree-planting charity. He asked me very specifically for a very few things, if I didn't want them. He gave all paperwork and valuables to a trusted friend for safekeeping until I can get to the UK. He handed the keys back to the housing association and used cash found in my mum's house to pay all outstanding bills. Then gave me an itemised breakdown of every single penny he'd had to spend and paid the remaining balance into my bank account.
Carla Burke wrote:Burra, are you using it in your kitchen?
It is indeed destined for the kitchen!
We're a bit behind on the renovations because I went and blew every penny I could lay my hands on buying the place next door for my son, which also needs renovating. Downstairs is still very, very basic, but there are plans for a rather awesome space with a stone worktop, marble sink, granite topped table and a rocket mass heater.
This is the table we found (in the seller's house - mine is nothing like that yet!)...
And here's a close up of the granite top, in a very delicate shade of pink...
I suspect the draining board and worktop are going to have to be purchased new and made to measure though. I can't imagine finding a suitable second-hand slab in a suitable colour and exactly the right size. But hey, you never know!
I'd been wondering about a worktop and draining board to go with it and found this photo.
I think I need to find a stone yard that knows how to cut those sloping grooves and when we're ready to install it we can get a bit of stone cut to fit and the end bit of the worktop can double up as the draining board.
Carla Burke wrote:But, how did you get it home? Isn't it incredibly heavy?
I let the boys manhandle it into the back of the car. The woman selling it send a rather anxious last-minute message to my partner telling him to make sure he brought a strong helper with him. To move it they raised one end and then 'walked' it corner-to-corner to the car, they laid it down so it was leaning on the end of the car, raised the other end and slid it in. They're both pretty experienced with moving heavy things.
I'm still not sure how on earth we're going to build exactly the right shaped support for it, and get it into place, and perfectly level. I'm sure they'll figure it out.
Dan Fish wrote:Heirloom plants always produce heirloom seeds right?
Only if it's pollinated by another heirloom plant. Both parents would have to be of the same heirloom variety to give heirloom seeds. If you grow two heirloom varieties, you'll get a mixture of both types of heirlooms *and* some cross-pollinated hybrids from the seeds.
And everyone always tells you not to save hybrid seeds cause you will get seeds from just one of it's parents.
Only because they're muddled up. The genes swap around before seeds are produced so you'll get a mix of genes from all of the parents and grandparents.
But with landrace gardening I would grow many types of, say tomatoes, and collect the cross pollinated seeds in an attempt to capture the best traits for my area.
Pretty much, though with tomatoes they don't cross-pollinate very easily unless you help them a bit. Or grow some of Joseph Lofthouse's landrace varieties which are selected to have big flowers which cross pollinate easily.
So heirlooms cannot be used as a component of these fictional landrace tomatoes, correct?
It's hard to say quite how important I think this book is. I've only once before given a perfect score to a book, but this is one that has the capacity to change the viewpoint of anyone who reads it giving them the inspiration and tools they need to step up and create their own landraces suited to their own needs, desires and growing conditions.
If you thought heirlooms were the way to go, this book is likely to blow your socks off and open your eyes to the full potential that small-scale growers have to influence food security, genetic diversity and produce awesome tasting food that grows with minimal care and inputs.
For years Joseph resisted writing a book on the grounds that landrace gardening was so simple and had been done for so long by illiterate farmers that a book obviously wasn't necessary as everything that anyone needed to know could be written in a couple of pages. Of course to a large extent that's right, but in the book he's shared not only a lifetime's experience of actually doing it but also a lot of the background needed to really understand what went wrong with modern plant breeding, how bottlenecks happen, and how to undo those bottlenecks and get the genes flowing freely again.
Leigh Tate's review above gives a wonderful taste of what each of the chapters is about so I won't repeat any of that. But one thing I really want you all to know is the joy that is inherent in this book. Not only is it a wonderful read, but it's a complete inspiration to take control of your garden, your life and your place in the community.
Here are a few favourite quotes to give you a taste...
"The premise of this book is that growing food, saving seeds, and plant breeding are the common inheritance of humanity. Illiterate plant breeders brought us every crop that we now grow. The seedkeepers didn’t read or write. They didn’t know about genes. Without book-learning, they collaborated cooperatively with each other and with the plants and ecosystem to bring us wonderful crops."
"Worrying about purity is one of the biggest impediments to seed saving. Maintaining purity leads to inbreeding depression. I don’t worry much about isolation distances or keeping cultivars pure. Plants are stronger when cultivars cross-pollinate each other. If a Hubbard squash and a banana squash cross-pollinate, the offspring are still squash. They grow like squash, they look like squash, they cook like squash."
"A friend at farmer’s market asked why her tomatoes get dirty,and mine stay clean. I didn’t have an answer for her. Next time I picked tomatoes, I noticed that the landrace tomatoes have a different type of vine than commercially available tomatoes.When I’m saving seed from tomatoes, I don’t save seeds from fruits that are laying in the mud. I had inadvertently selected for tomatoes that have an arching vine structure that keeps the fruits off the ground. The tomatoes took care of it themselves without any labor or attention from me."
"Domesticating tomatoes created a number of genetic bottlenecks. A bottleneck occurs when a small sample of a variety separates from the larger population. The small sample has a limited subset of genes. The limited genetic background creates inbreeding depression and loss of vigor. The new population may be missing genetic intelligence for dealing with specific pests, diseases, or environmental conditions.
Tomato’s accustomed pollinators didn’t make the bottlenecking journeys with them. To cope, tomatoes became self pollinating and highly inbreeding.
People selected against cross-pollination, inbreeding the heirlooms for fifty to hundreds of generations. Together, these events caused a loss of 95% of genetic diversity. Tomatoes today are among the most genetically-inbred and fragile crops. They are very susceptible to system-wide collapse."
"Single gene resistances are susceptible to failure, leading to system wide failure due to the resistance depending on that one gene. In the promiscuously pollinating tomato project, we intentionally chose to start with older varieties that are not known to have named resistance genes. Because they are 100% outcrossing, they re-shuffle genes rapidly, to re-combine many genes with small effect into highly-resistant plants."
"One of my favorite fruits is a pear grown from seed. The skin on green fruits is bitter. The bitterness disappears upon ripening. The advantage of bitter skin is that insects won’t eat the green fruits. That makes it possible to grow organic pears without crop protection chemicals."
"The animals and crops grown by the hill people retained their genetic memory about how to deal with bugs, diseases, farmers, soils, and ecosystems. The intelligent, diverse crops grown by the hill people produced a rich abundance of healthy food, offering peace and freedom to the hill people.
The hill people frequently celebrated their good fortune, and the wisdom of their plant and human ancestors. They gathered together for singing, dancing and giving thanks for the beautiful flavors, robust plants, natural world, and their communities. Their music and dance was spontaneous, made with their own bodies, imaginations, and instruments. Joy, peace, and cooperation filled their villages."
If my memory serves me right, somewhere in the film Ring of Bright Water it mentions that the church permits otter meat to be eaten on Fridays as they count as fish. Which suggests that they are good to eat. In my mind they are far too precious for such treatment, but I found a youtube video of the entire film that I first saw as a young child, which might have influenced me somewhat. Probably in more ways than I care to admit...
Aha - 8:50 in, "The flesh of the otter is extremely fishy and disagreeable to taste. However, the romish church permits its consumption on Fridays."