I'm in Beaverton MI, a rural area. I've been practicing permaculture for about 7 years now and it's a lonely pursuit. I'm doing no till, cover crops and as many regenerative practices I can. I try to adhere to the permaculture principles to the best of my ability but building community has been very difficult. I'm perceived as a freak.
I've invited people here on these forums to come see my Rocket Mass Heater but nobody bites.
The best resource I've found in the state to find like minded folks is the https://strawbalestudio.org/ in Oxford Michigan. It's run by an amazing woman, Deanne Bednar. She does a great job of bringing people together. It's a long drive for me to get there but it's always a high quality experience when I go.
I'm sure there are like minded people in my local community but it's been hard to find them.
Hey All,
So I've been wearing hiking shoes from Merrill and Keen for years and the quality seems to drop with each new pair. I like the hiking shoes because they breath and keep my feet cool. I bought a new pair of Keens 7 months ago and they are trashed. I had them for about 2 weeks and the heel blew out, I should have returned them but I didn't because I knew they would end up in the landfill; which they will anyway...
I looked long and hard for something better but came up short. The frustration continues as I look for my next pair. Turns out it's hard to tell if a shoe is gonna last just by looking at them. Apparently the business model is to manufacture stuff that lasts less than a year; guaranteed sales.
At this point I'd love to find something that would last 3-5 years. Does this kind of shoe exist?
Hey All,
I've successfully been keeping chickens for a year and a half. I have a small flock of chickens 5 hens and a rooster, now 4 hens... I went out to the run this afternoon and found a dead bird. There were no signs of trauma or predation. We have snow on the ground and I looked around the run and found no predator tracks.
Over the past few weeks I noticed she would hang out by herself away from the flock, at times but not all the time. Aside from that she seemed normal. I didn't see any evidence of mites or anything like that. I last cleaned the coop Thanksgiving weekend; about a month ago.
I noticed some bright green poops in the snow, I've never seen that before. I gave them some red cabbage yesterday, not sure if it's related. Aside from that I feed them a layer feed and give them a handful of mealworms each day. And each morning I give them fermented wheat, oats and sunflowers.
I read up on Marek's disease but I'm not sure. Heart attack? Egg bound? Bird Flu?
I want to keep my birds happy and healthy, I feel like a failure. How can I ensure the health of my remaining birds?
I would say the building is "moderately" insulated. I've been adding more insulation each year as I have been able. R -30 for the attic and each wall has it's own unique r value. But the immediate living space is insulated the most; R -30 walls and r-30 ceiling. The doors are where the biggest air leaks are. More insulation would certainly help.
I've been sleeping on a mattress made of a painters cloth stuffed with straw on top of a Rocket Mass Heater for a couple of years now. For the most part it's been great, not unlike a futon. There is a break in period after you first stuff it and the straw fibers are still long. But over time the mattress starts to take on the form of your body and it's like floating on a cloud; this is especially true when the mass of my heater is warm.
The mattress still has the original straw in it but I add fresh straw and fluff it up a few times a year. At this point the old straw is really broken down, I think I'll dump everything and mulch something in the spring and start fresh. I love how biodegradable this thing is!
I found this thread which is pretty informative. Sounds like it's not gonna work in my area... Unless someone can convince me otherwise. ;)
cooling tubes
Hey All,
This heat wave has got me thinking about solar chimneys and "earth tubes". I've seen these used in Earthships and other places but I'm kinda surprised they aren't more widely used. I did some web searches and found a few things on the subject but I still have questions.
For those who don't know how these work. Basically the sun heats the chimney causing a convection current which draws cool air into the living space via the earth tubes.
I'm not sure but I think one of the drawbacks or complications with this set up is dealing with condensation. I'm in the mid west where it can be quite humid at times. So when the hot and humid outside air hits the earth tube it will shed it's water. The question is how do you deal with this condensation. My fear would be after a time this would blast mold spores into the living space.
I've spent time at Wheaton labs and listened to a bunch of the podcasts and I remember Paul talking briefly about this but I don't recall his verdict/conclusion on the technology. Maybe we could prod him to discuss this a little bit in the next podcast?
Anyway. Do people have experience with these systems in humid areas? Any good resources to check out?
I'm a permie here in Michigan and make end grain hardwood cutting boards. All the wood has been locally harvested, cured and processed. Some of them are available at a consignment shop called Eyrie in Depot town Ypsilanti MI. I also have a bunch here with me at home here in northern Michigan.
Hit me up if you're interested in one.
Thanks!
Rich
Hey Guys.
My RMH has been up and running for a season and like most J-Tube setups the first brick over the burn chamber has cracked. The question I have is, do I care? I've seen several other J-Tubes, one of which is 20 years old, that have cracked bricks here.
It seems that once that brick breaks once it's probably not gonna break any more. But I have nothing to back that up aside from intuition.
Perhaps I could replace this brick with something of higher quality? Maybe a ceramic kiln brick?
How are others dealing, or not dealing with this problem?
Hey All,
I'm putting the finishing touches on my RMH heater that I built last winter. I recently added concrete countertops to top off the masonry.
Note this thing doubles as my bed. I currently sleep on top of a half dozen comforters, blankets and sleeping bags. Next I'd like to make some kind of cushion or something to sleep and sit on.
Like most Mass heaters this thing gets hot! I had a rubber camping sleeping mat at the base of my pile and it melted up pretty good. I measured 130 F the other day 10 hours after the last burn.
So I'm looking for materials that are soft and comfy but can withstand the high temps.
Hey Permies,
For the past couple of years I've been increasingly enthralled by permaculture, horticulture, homesteading, natural building and all the stuff we talk about here on these forums. As I approach 50 years old I guess you could call me a lifelong environmentalist both personally and professionally. But it wasn't until a few years ago that I rediscovered permaculture; I studied it briefly in grad school 20 years ago. At the time I thought it was a bunch of hippy dippy mumbo jumbo, and here's the thing, I consider myself to be a full fledged hippy!
Anyway permaculture has grown and matured quite a bit over the last 20 years and I'm glad to have rediscovered it. Now it's all I can think about, all I want to pursue. The framework that the permaculture principles provide have been incredibly empowering for me. I feel like I now have a practical outlet to do something positive right here and now.
Recently I've been diving deeper into Geoff Lawton's teachings and his videos online. I have to say I got chills when I saw his food forest presentation. Geoff just oozes with enthusiasm and passion. Geoff is one of the best advocates and educatiors in permaculture today. IMHO. I think his voice should be heard by more people. Which brings me to the reason for this post.
The Public Radio International show Living On Earth has been around for a good long time now. If you haven't heard it before it's on a lot of NPR stations and can be downloaded as a podcast. loe.org I've listened for years and have always found it to be a bit soft but overall I think it's a good quality show.
However I think it would be an excellent addition to have a regular guest segment with someone like Geoff Lawton to discuss the various permaculture principles, practices and techniques.
What do you guys think? Are you familiar with LOE? Would you like to hear a regular permaculture segment on the show?
Not sure how to do this though. I tried to email Geoff but his email doesn't seem to be public. I guess an email to LOE and Steve Curwood, the host, is in order.
Looking for ways to make permaculture a household word.
I recently found this new video from Geoff Lawton talking about Food Forests. Geoff does an excellent job of describing how a food forest works and it's potential to solve many contemporary problems throughout the world I got chills when I first watched it a few days ago, since then I've been sharing it whenever possible.
What I like about Geoff's presentation is his awe, wonderment and enthusiasm for the potential of the Food Forest. I've been a permaculture enthusiast for several years now and I'm ready to engage at the level he's talking about. But I wonder how it will be perceived by the masses.
My advice for your flier would be to distill it down even further. Somehow encapsulate the potential in bite sized pieces.
Another thought that comes to mind is check out some of Paul Gauchie from Back to Eden gardening method. He uses a lot of religious language in his permaculture. I'm an atheist but this video tour of Paul's garden was very inspiring for me a few years back and was part of my introduction to permaculture. But like Geoff, Paul has an infectious enthusiasm.
Hey All,
My name is Rich and I live in mid central lower Michigan, zone 5b, on 12 acres with my dad. I moved here about 2 years ago and over that time I find myself obsessing over permaculture and it's potential. I've long considered myself an environmentalist and have devoted much of my adult life to reducing my footprint and helping others do the same. I studied permaculture briefly in grad school but it didn't resonate with me at the time.
Here at dads place we heat with wood, so when I first moved here I started researching how to burn wood more efficiently and of course I found the rocket mass heater. I was immediately enticed by the RMH and quickly built a prototype. Then another, and another. I took workshops and was fortunate enough to study with Erica and Ernie Wisnar as I earned my PDC at Wheaton Labs. I now have a fully functioning RMH in my space and it's fricken awesome!
My study of the RMH brought me back to the world of Permaculture, these days it's about all I can think about.
I'm trying to build a career as a consultant along with some kind(s) of cottage industry. I've been a worm farmer for many years so I'm thinking about scaling up production.
I could go on with more specifics about my skill set and situation but I'm hitting a wall that I suspect many of us are. I live in a rural area with lots of poverty. The local economy is driven by some light industrial factories, retail and big agriculture. Lots of folks commute long distances for work. I recently went to an earth day event at the high school and talked with folks from the master gardeners club, 4H and the county extension. Not one person I talked to had heard of permaculture.
Over the past 2 years I've tried various things to try to connect with other permies in the area. I've posted on the local gardening group on facebook, nobody know what permaculture is. I hung fliers around town that say "Interested in Permaculture? Me too!! Let's chat". No response. I've posted on craigslist...nothing. I have connected with a few folks here on there forums but they're all hours away.
I'm finding it hard to market myself as a permaculture consultant/practitioner when know one knows what it is.
Somewhere along the way I picked up a piece of wisdom from a market farmer who says a big part of selling regenerative food is being an advocate and cheerleader for regenerative practices. You have to educate your customers before you can sell to them...
I don't know, I'm at the end of my cash reserves so I started working on my resume which got me thinking about all of this.
Anyway, if you have thoughts on how to proceed or air your own grievances I'd love to here them.
So it turns out I bumped the wires on the unit which was set up using prototyping breadboards. This prompted me to get my shit together and solder the thing up properly. So I did that, for the most part anyway, and everything is working nicely.
I first discovered Paul G and the "Back to Eden" method about a year and a half ago when Justin Rhodes stopped by his farm and made a video as part of his great American farm tour. I was immediately inspired and soon began bringing woodchips onto the property. The more wood chips I get the more I study the concept of sheet mulching and no till. I've come to learn there is plenty of science behind the "method". I've come to think of Paul as a great cheerleader for sheet mulching and permaculture in general who has inspired all kinds of people like me. But he has a tendency to oversimplify and embellish where he sees fit; everything you could want in a good PR person ;)
As I continued to study I found real scientists like Dr Elaine Ingham, Jeff Lowenfels, Dr Red Hawk, Tad Hussey and plenty of others who are all studying the mechanics of the soil food web.
If you're recently inspired by Paul and the BTE method I highly recommend looking up the folks above. And you may want to start with Jeff Lowenfels book Teaming with Microbes which is the first of a three part series of books on the soil food web.
Teaming with Microbes
A couple of months ago I discovered Charles Dowding and his youtube channel. Charles has his own methods which aren't all that different than Paul's but he promotes his method as no dig. Anyway I highly recommend checking out his high quality how-to videos.
Perhaps something like the rocket stove pizza oven that has been discussed here on the forums. These ovens have me asking the same question, how do you maintain a constant temperature.
I recently built a J Tube system with a high temperature sensor at the top of the heat riser. I tend to see sharp spikes as new fuel is introduced. My heater is only 5 weeks old so I've only had it for a short while but I've been able to play. I tried to maintain a constant temp in the core but found it difficult. I suspect a batch box would produce more of a consistent output.
Here's another thread of mine discussing the sensor and it's output.
So after running this heater for one month to the day it appears that the thermocouple temperature sensor has stopped working... Not sure what happened as the device is rated for 1200C and I haven't seen anything close to that hot. I'm gonna finish out the season before I take the barrel off for the annual cleaning at which point I'll inspect the sensor and see what's going on.
So I'm in the market for a replacement. Anyone have experience with high temp sensors like this? Where can I get a high quality one?
Here is a "typical" day. This snapshot shows slightly more than 24 hours. This is roughly 3 hours of burning in the morning and 4 hours in the evening.
I'll be writing some code to record how many hours of fire there is each day; something like 350F and above.
I tend to burn twice a day, first thing in the morning for 3-5 hours and again in the evening for about the same 3-5 hours. I'll burn for shorter lengths of time next year when the building has more insulation.
Hey All,
Now that my RMH has been burning for a few weeks now I'm starting to get data from my high temperature thermocouple that I placed at the top of the riser tube. The hottest temp I've seen so far was 1400F WOWZA! but it seems to average 600-800F. But that's on the inside of the barrel, the hottest I've seen on the outside is around 850F, either way it's hot stuff!
I still need to pour the concrete countertops for the top of the mass but when I do I'll embed 3 temp sensors. I'm excited to see how the mass holds and releases heat.
These graphs really illustrate is how quickly a RMH gets hot and up to temperature. I suspect "traditional" wood stoves would take much longer to get up to operating temperatures. I built this heater in a partially insulated building that doesn't retain heat well so that's why I'm getting such a big drop in temp overnight. But I've been sleeping on the mass which is absolutely wonderful! While the air around the mass does get cold being under the covers on the warm mass is rapturous.
Hey All,
I've been programming micro controllers like Arduino and Raspberry Pi for about a decade now. While I'm still very much in the hobbiest category I'm still able to do some pretty cool stuff.
I increasingly use a lot of 12V DC LED lighting and I use Arduino's to control them in various ways; motion sensors, remote control. lights sensors and switches. This allows me to push the efficiency of the LEDs even further. And since everything runs on DC I can skip the inverter on my solar PV system which further pushes the efficiency of the whole system.
I also do a lot of temperature reading, inside at various rooms and of course outside. I'm just finishing up a Rocket Mass Heater build where I installed a high temperature thermocouple to measure the heat at the top of the heat riser. So far my hottest temp has been 1,300F! And I'll embed 3 temp sensors in the top of my mass. I'm excited to see how long the mass will hold heat after a fire.
Anyway I'm curious if other homesteaders and permies are using microcontrollers and what your doing with them.
Hey All,
So after a year and a half of intrigue and study I'm nearly finished with my first full blown RMH here in Beaverton MI. I first fired it up 10 days ago and it was bad ass right out of the gate.
If your in Michigan and have never experienced a Rocket Mass Heater come check mine out this coming Saturday. Send me a message if you'd like to come.
Here are some of the details of this build.
I got a chance to study with Ernie and Erica last year at Wheaton Labs. I also studied with Deanne Bednar of Strawbale Studio here in Michigan. For the most part I followed the book, The Rocket Mass Builders Guide from Ernie and Erica. But of course lots of time here in the forums and the seemingly endless hours of youtube.
Here where I am the soil is predminantly sand which took cob off the option list. I started collecting reclaimed bricks from craigslist and the reuse store about a year and a half ago which left me with a variety of different shape, size and color of bricks. In the end I used about 350 bricks for the bench and around the burn unit.
Because I built on an uninstalled 4 inch concrete slab I decided to lift the whole thing with 4 inch cinder blocks. This made the bench a bit taller than I would prefer but it's workable. One thing I could do to remedy this would be to install a 2 inch thick insulated wooden floor; but that's a decision for another time.
There are small amounts of clay on the property and I was able to harvest enough to slip together the core.
Creating the manifold was one of the biggest unknowns for me, the book is pretty weak on this. In the end this is what I came up with. Interesting note about the manifold, I made all my cuts for the lower barrel and then burned off the paint. This tweaked and twisted and even shrunk it a fair amount. I was able to bend it back to something workable but it wasn't the same as before the paint burn off.
Ceramic fiber blanket for the riser.
I filled the mass with scraps of marble and sandstone slabs and tied it all together with pea gravel. I still don't have the top on yet so I can see some of the marble and sandstone. It seems that the sandstone does a better job of holding the heat, I wouldn't have guessed that.
For the top I'll pour 2 pieces of concrete countertop. I've watched a bunch of youtubes on this and there are a lot of different ways to make a concrete countertop. I hope to pour the first piece in the next couple of days. Anyone have recommendations?
Metrics. I tinker with microcontrollers like Arduino and Raspberry Pi. I'll be embedding 3 temperature sensors in the bench top. And I installed a thermocouple temp sensor at the very top of the heat riser. Somehow I installed it without breaking it! So far my average burn temps are 600-800F and on the high end I've seen 1200F. Soon I'll be pushing this data up to the cloud where I can get fancy charts and graphs. One thing I'm particularly interested in is how long the mass can hold the heat. Stay tuned.
I don't know how to work images on these forms so here are a bunch down below.
Anyway I'll be sharing it this saturday for the open house. Hit me up if you'd like to come see it.
Hey Ryan,
I'm a lonely permie in Gladwin county, probably an hour and half south of you. I've been living with my dad here for the past 2 years. I'm also a transplant from Southeast MI.
Since the day after thanksgiving I've been fervently working on building a Rocket Mass Heater in a pole barn. It's a slow process. I've learned that if you build a RMH in an uninsulated building you might as well just use a "traditional" wood stove. I finally have the walls insulated where the RMH heater will sit. Yesterday I did a dry fit layout and will be installing the chimney in the next few days. My goal is to have the heater built by the end of the month but I don't know if that's realistic. I hope to boil down some Maple syrup this spring.
Aside from that I'm obsessed with permaculture. I've been sheet mulching, composting, worm farming, brewing up compost tea and living frugally.
But like I said it's a lonely endeavor. Most folks around here don't know what permaculture is and are outright ignorant/skeptical of it's potential. I've tried to find permaculture people in the area through social media and craigslist but have come up short.
If you're ever passing through the area feel free to stop by. I'd love to show you around our homestead and talk permaculture.
Hey All,
I'm in mid central lower Michigan and we have lots and lots of sand. We have 12 acres with sandy roadways and paths throughout. We recently had a thaw and everything turned into a muddy mess with puddles all around.
I've been learning about building soil with mulch like woodchips and other organic matter. I know this would help buffer the excess water but it might not be a good idea for a roadway/path. I've been thinking about spreading charcoal in the worst affected areas.
I've been composting for years and recently discovered charcoal and biochar. I made up a bunch of charcoal which I'll sprinkle on my compost pile in the warmer months. Right now my piles are frozen and I'm not turning them; I'll resume in the spring.
Meanwhile I'm collecting my daily coffee grounds and adding a bit of crushed, pre moistened charcoal to the bucket. My hope is to catch some of the nitrogen off gassing from the coffee in the charcoal thus "activating it" and turning it into biochar. I figure I'll have a five gallon bucket of the stuff by the time spring comes along and plan to turn it into my leaf mold compost pile to finish it off.
One question I have is what is the shelf life of spent coffee grounds? My gut tells me that a lot of the nitrogen will quickly off gas but I haven't been able to verify this.
Does this sound like a good use of charcoal and coffee?
I just went to my "other" local reuse center and picked up 5 chunks of ugly marred up marble slabs for $20 bucks. It's 1 5/8" thick and the longest one is 7ft long. I think they'll be awesome heat sinks!
So my plan is to build a shell out of bricks and mortar and line the inside with this marble. I don't have enough to go all the way around but I do have some sandstone that I could use to fill in the gaps. I plan to fill the remaining voids with pea gravel and/or sand. I wish I could do cob but I'm in a sandy section of Michigan...
It looks like I'm gonna have to cut 4 inches of 2 of the lengths. I've never cut marble before, a quick search suggests it's as simple as a diamond tipped blade. I hope it's as simple as that...
So my local reuse center currently has a bunch of used marble counter top bits and pieces. I suspect it was donated by a company that installs counter tops. Anyway the pieces are irregular in shape, size, color and condition. It got me thinking it might be cool to fill my mass with some of this, perhaps put a layer down below the pipes.
I don't know the thermal qualities of Marble compared to the field stones I was planning to use. As a laymen it seems that the marble would perform better as a thermal mass than the stones; but I have no idea what I'm talking about, hence this post...
Hey All,
I'm getting closer to finally building my RMH. My mass will be "framed in" using bricks, I'll fill the void of the mass with 8 inch pipes and pea gravel. Cob is not an option for this build. For the top of the mass I'm looking and making a 2 inch thick concrete countertop type thingy.
Hey All,
I'm getting ready to purchase the most expensive part of my RMH build, the roof kit and double walled exit flu. I've done some shopping around online and locally but I'm still kinda confused as to what I need.
One question I have is what specifically are you trying to measure in the riser?
I'm just trying to get a sense of the heater I build, it's not a scientific inquiry per se. It's my understanding that the top of the heat riser will see the hottest temperatures.
Our land has Maple, Oak, Poplar and White and Red Pine. It'll be cool to know what temps these various woods burn.
by the way this is the sensor and amplifier I ordered
