THANKS ALL! Of course, the advice was exactly what I wanted to hear, lol, but I trust you "permies". Actually, my 3 hatched first of August - one roo and 2 hens - some sort of White Australian mutt I think - got "surprise" eggs in a table-top incubator from a neighbor, and he doesn't know breed.
Anyway, girls started laying right on the dot of Dec 1 and almost fully daily all thru the Winter! Roo seems nice - no pecking me, and seems to care for the girls. The hens are rather smallish, but he seems normal size.
I'm looking at 2 different groups of hens on CraigsList that are less than 1yr-old. One group is slightly younger and look like smaller size, but no breed mentioned ... other group has just started laying, but no pix and sound like "larger" but supposedly "calm and laid-back" ... "breed of leghorn and cross with sexlink. They are known as a Production Red that lays lots of eggs".
Busy with garden after long spell of cold and no rain till upcoming week ... got to pick up pace with coop!!
I guess I'll make contact and see if I can look them over and find out if they'll keep 'em a little longer. I read plenty re "symptoms", so I guess I will have sense enough to recognize illness.
Best of luck to all of us in 2021.
Forgot to mention that we have a large, female German Shepherd, who TOTALLY doesn't mind me and was fed raw chicken for many years! I cleaned out the brooder pen in the barn a few weeks ago, and one of them got loose. Hildi was NO help as I tried to let it settle to catch it. She catches mice and ground squirrels all the time - will pursue for HOURS. Getting extra sturdy electric fence for coop/run, but had no way to protect "quarantine" birds separately.
Thanks, Trace. I'm thinking about some relatively nearby - sounds like they've been well raised, but I will pass if I don't like their circumstance.
Anybody else like to weigh-in? TYVM
Looked in archive, but only found posts mostly related to "socialization" of newbies. I'm worried about DISEASES! Googled it and am now panicked, since all say to separate by 30ft for at least 2-4 weeks.
Cannot figure out how to do that in my circumstance - just now working on old "shipping crate" to refit into coop. Have nothing else to house the 5 that I want. The 3 I now have are living in the brooder, which will be needed in few weeks for broilers, and I certainly don't want to introduce any disease into that + it's too small.
Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated .... I haven't tromped thru snow to the barn all Winter to now lose my 3 wonderful hatchlings!
Regards, Mary Beth
Sorry no pix, but you all have made me feel better!
I'm kinda waiting because it's been around freezing overnite for 2 weeks and until Tuesday. I've got to weed out joint-grass from this poor clay before planting in ground.
And, I'm going to plant many of them in my "grow-bags" with experimental tomatoes in cloches with black-painted water bottles!
I know I could probably plant the onions now, but they would be disturbed when I have to dig a BIG hole into the bag to bury these 2ft tomato "seedlings", LOL. Maybe 2 more weeks.
Thanks much, and best of luck to us all.
They were in my house in the closed, plastic shipping bag for about 1 week until I opened them Monday.
Seemed almost wet in there - certainly very damp. Almost ALL the root ends are blue moldy. Sorted out the some that were obviously spoiled/soft, and put into a new mesh bag on my potting table in the barn.
Really need another week to plant them out ... still below freezing every night till then. This is my 3rd year buying sets - never happened before.
Will they be viable??
My 3rd year starting SP - have never bought "slips". Doesn't work well to cut potato before putting in water, though I did get a few slips. Wasn't happy with "lay them on their side in potting soil", though I got a few. This year I put whole potatoes in water - "pointy-side down" - think you're a gardener .... good luck on choosing stem end from root end, LOL. Some were organic from grocery and some not, but they ALL know which way is up!
Much better slip production this year, though some were making leaves underwater, OOPS.
After some good growth and/or roots, I carefully cut out small sections for viable life and suspended them in water. Things are going well!
The main thing to know is that this process takes MONTHS. I've got huge, warm, South facing windows ... something to be playing with during Feb in Zone 3b-4. Somehow, I get aphids in the house, and these are the "canary in the coalmine". I was potting last week and sprayed with OMRI soap - all good for now after 1X.
My biggest problem in this zone is giving them enough days. I've only gotten long and twisty 1inch roots because I put them out rather late and have had major grasshopper pressure.
This year, I will put them out earlier in black grow-bags with cloches, black-painted water bottles, and tight row covering.
Wishing all of us a great 2021 season .... I will post update on my SP.
My neighbor here in Zone 3b-4, offered me cuttings from 20ft trees that were fruiting last year and every year. Really wanted them but had no plan. Now that I know where I'll be putting my chicken coop/runs, I'm wondering if I can just "stick" them in opportune spots.
I can start them in pots of sand and then transplant if that's best. TYVM
Last year Spring freeze was June 13, and Fall was Sept 9! Supposedly, those are actually within the normal range of 10% occurrence. Hard to figure on our place because no weather station nearby has the same elevation, and I believe we have a micro-climate. Garden is South-facing, full-sun, no trees for windbreak.
Anyway, I'd appreciate input on my plan to fool Mother Nature! I've got an unconscionable wealth of ice-tea jugs because my cancer patient won't drink my homemade tea ... trying to make lemonade out of lemons.
Plan to use tea jugs for cloches to plant SOME nightshades early with black-painted, water-filled 2-liters and 1/2gal milk jugs around each cloche.
I've got staples to secure them and could also tie cloche to milk jug to be safe against our crazy winds. Wind is why I can't use row-covers, and no money yet for hoop house.
I'd also like to use this idea for some really early greens, etc, AND, hopefully for a few cucurbits to get a head start, though slightly later than the nightshades.
What does the "hive-mind" think? I'm wondering how early I could try ... 2 weeks, 3, more? I'm not going to risk everything, but I want to have a little farm-stand this year and get growing early.
Thanks, everyone - be well and have a GREAT season!
OMG -USES OF BAGS OF LEAVES?? Holding down tarps over manure piles/black plastic bed covering in the winter; extending my garden paths/bed surrounds over cardboard (weed-eating is a waste of energy); adding to compost pile in Summer - alternating with kitchen scraps and "greens"; putting in chicken run for winter; worm bedding, though I haven't done this yet - I have to "save" worms when I pick up the bags! The stored bags are even improving the soil by shading out weeds and giving worms protection.
TIPS: When picking up from private homes in town, I'm always careful to be sure bags are in the proper place for "waste-management" pick up, and I'm always respectful of walking on their grass. etc. In our county, waste company posts dates of collection on-line.
Also, I try to lay the bags down at my place, with the openings toward the ground so they don't get filled with rain/snow - many are "degradable", but this practice will help. I also save the heavy-duty bags.
Best wishes to all in collecting this wonderful, FREE resource.
Jay, thanks so much for your interest and long reply!
Yeah, they were born in August - and they seemed to have PTSD/"frozen" when I put them in that much larger space, LOL. Though they are settling down now, but their waterer is blue now, not red like they had. Too skittish for me to put their beaks in.
Broilers are way out in Salatin-type "tractors" ... no predator problems ... but Son has refused to put these 3 in there for just the few next weeks - thinks they will be pecked to death.
Don't want to get too much into the sad "soap-opera" around here, but there is NO reasoning with him/very little empathy for animals/only the barest of help for me/very little conversation - lots of snarling from him.
We have already had a hard freeze Labor Day + next 2 nights ... and forecast again for this Weds.
These 3 poor birds are surely going to be stuck in the barn for the Winter, and I'm just trying to do my best for them.
I'm new to chickens - short background: I have three 6-wk-old "layer" chickens which were "dumped" on me as incubating eggs ... no notice/plan. They hatched within the first 4 days of September, and have been living in a small dog kennel in the basement. Other 9 eggs didn't hatch. My son was starting 50 CornishX in a 6ft round stock tank - they have been moved outdoors, and will be butchered in a few weeks.
We weren't sure of the sex of these 3, and my son was not willing to build a real coop for them. Tried to give them away, etc.
Seems we have 1 cockerel and 2 pullets - good, so decided to keep them, built still no coop will be forthcoming this year.
Today, I moved them into the tank with all new shavings, a low perch, dustbath/grit pan of new "play sand", some fresh cut alfalfa, heat lamp/temp sensor, food/water.
Top is heavy plywood with a hinged, half-moon lid of 1/2-inch hardware cloth in a frame. It was secure for the broilers for 5 weeks - hoping the same going forward.
I feel a HIGH degree of responsibility for animal care! Already sad that they never saw the light of day until today and have been kept too confined. PLEASE help me to make the best of a bad situation.
Will their health suffer with no direct sunlight? The tank is near the rear barn door, but on the direct north side - probably don't want that door open too much when it's 20-below, and not any real sun coming in anyway.
Should I get them a vitamin supplement - don't care about "organic" strictures at this point, though they are getting organic "grower" ration (same as broilers) which is being partially fermented. Should I change their food at some time before the Spring? Can I cut and dry more alfalfa to give them over the Winter? I WILL make sure they have some kind of proper coop come Spring!
TYVM for any and all advice and encouragement to a newb, nervous chicken momma! BTW, they seem to be Austra White with some probable mix - have been great layers for the guy who gave them to me.
Everything is LUSH, and there are tons of flower buds on peppers, tomatoes, eggplant.
Eggplants have 4 fruits out of 9 plants + couple flowers plus buds, banana pepper is fruiting; flower buds - few are open, but no fruit on jalapeno, bell, cayenne, etc.
Tomatoes might actually be doing better, though the fruiting seems slow.
There is NO flower-drop on anything, nor any pests. I see pollinators, and the squash, etc nearby are fruiting.
Have "pinched"/pruned ALL during this last week - regular watering/rain. Full sun all day on all these plants. NO commercial fertilizer - just compost and a little azomite to start.
We had very late freeze June 13, but the plants I saved/made it thru came back gangbusters.
Am I just messed up on MY timing because of late start?
Thinking not, because flower buds have been visible for month, but won't open.
VERY disconcerting - hope you guys have some advice/thoughts.
Happy harvesting to all!
Could be worse - only a real problem on cabbages - didn't see any solution in archive, though I did try coffee grounds and eggshells ... maybe helped a little.
Do they leave the plant and return to the soil during the day? Can I closely wrap my plant with row cover if they aren't hiding in the lower leaves? Have already removed lowest/ground-touching leaves.
Finding only tiny ones in the morning and wondering if they stay in the leaf crotches during the day.
Thinking about placing pieces of cardboard to "catch" them overnite. Not very many cabbages left - trying to know for the future.
Kinda funny - no slugs on red cabbage container-grown off ground, but plenty green cabbage worms ... none of those in 30-gal grow bags of green cabbage, but there are the slugs!
Wondering if I should, next year, put all cabbages together in small bags on my "table" and cover them with row cover.
I guess it wouldn't be bad as a "mono-crop" situation as long as they were covered.
Thanks ALL - happy harvesting!
Snow peas seem to actually be pretty stringy according to my Googling efforts. Some say it gets worse with higher temps.
I'm gonna shell the "sugar pods" and not plant them again. I have done as Mike suggested - pulling down a string with the stem on the snow peas - to little avail.
In my research, many people cut them diagonally or whatever - at least you wouldn't get a big wad in your mouth!
Probably should've waited to post this until I knew the names of my varieties, but they are common and highly reviewed.
Just sent for a different snow pea, which I also can't remember .... but will try for Fall and repost all the names. Thanks everybody!
1. Azomite seems wonderful ,,, "dirt" is the same mix of rotted manure/sand/small wood chips from last year. I have moved all "nightshades" to get better sun and air-flow from last year ... but crazy wonderful growth/flowering of everything and squash! Only spread light scattering of azomite and bone meal over surface of 30-gal planting bags.
2. Cutting off lower leaves from cabbage seems to hinder slugs, but I also spread coffee grounds/egg-shells at the same time.
3. All my "snow/sugar pod" peas are VERY stringy when eating ... both varieties, even tho I'm picking them small and they have a little shade.
4. Pulled up bolted/flea-beetle destroyed ... what to plant now with 70-day maturity? Already have planted 2nd crop bush beans.
TYVM to all and best wishes!
This Spring we finally were able to plant large potted trees we bought May 2019. Managed to hold them over that Summer and the Winter.
Planting was a little late this year ... early May in Zone 4-ish was still cold/frozen. Watered them in well and a couple more times, but my son was a little short on the water in the third week.
Two apples are gone - these are VERY large trees, but small root ball - maybe 3 gal.
Anyway, I'm keeping up with watering better, but others - plum and apples have been shocked.
Should I prune a little to help to help them along OR will it stimulate them to produce more leaves ... NOT what is needed in this drought. TYVM
Well, I am using those boxes again this year. As we suspected, they supported each other and have only deteriorated at the exposed ends, where I replaced them with grow-bags.
I have been surprised to notice there are no worms in the soil. Is the 8-inch depth too shallow to support their lifestyle? TONS of worms in raised beds and "black-dirt" pile.
I'm also re-using those 30?-gal grow bags and finding only a very few worms in them.
Everything has the same dirt mix of rotted manure, sand, wood chips - this year I added azomite and bone meal plus some new soil mix to amend the soil which grew plants last season.
Discovered a drawback to using that galvanized door as a table for boxes. With the drought and so much sun, the uncovered center area - 3' X 5' - is acting like a heat-sink/reflector and raising the ambient temp by 5-10 degrees! We used a meat thermometer to take temps last evening and were shocked. We have 14hrs of sun, and there is NO shade for my garden area. Today, I mulched that open area with layers of rotten cardboard. So, just be aware if you are using metal close to your plants. Best regards to all!
Thanks everyone for advice! Whatever the bacteria is doesn't sound scary for garden purposes.
The artesian well is on our property 2 miles away - not where we are living.
We'll be able to draw water from there until we close on the sale in a few weeks.
Hope this drought ends by then!! Regards, and best of luck to all.
So, Catie George - thanks for helping. Our old family home is in the process of being sold - clearing it out before closing about 30 more days. They never tried bleach when anybody was still living there.
Property is so close to our new place, will be relatively easy to take water from that well and bring it here for the garden - not for drinking here - only garden.
Just wondering if that water is "safe" for garden.
We don't know what happened 5-6 years ago to cause this "bloom". The family used it for over 70 years with no problem, and it was used earlier for a moonshine still! The road is named Artesian Lane.
I'm just so desperate to water my garden .. we're nearly 7-in short this year, and all rain events are completely missing us!
100?-yr-old artesian well went bad 4 years ago. Reddish-brown sludge mats in the sump in the basement. Was state-tested extensively - found no e.coli, but wouldn't name any other bacteria.
Home was abandoned shortly thereafter.
It's only 2 miles away, and we are having quite the drought where we now live. Our well/pump here is kinda iffy - old pump and risky lining. Don't want to pump water for garden.
Been using totes filled by house sump-pump ... no rain = very little water going into totes.
Easy fix can be going to fill totes with our dump-truck.
Anybody have thoughts about safety of this water for garden?? TYVM
My son, the you-tube junkie, saw a plant called "aztec broccoli" and was quite interested. I Googled it and found it to be an amaranth like quinoa and lambsquarters.
Lambsquarters grows like crazy here - some went to seed in our "aged manure pile" - so now I'll have it forever!
Knew it was edible, but only just tried it after this new knowledge ... tastes great quickly steamed with butter or bacon drippings - like spinach. Put it in a fritata tonight.
Only harvesting/cutting real small plants as I weed.
Paid some crazy $$ for that "aztec" stuff - very small amount of seeds. Evidently the attraction with that is to eat the young seed heads as well as the tender leaves. People were advising to make "fritters" from the seed heads.
Not planted yet because it wants to be hot to germinate in 2 weeks!, and I have to figure out how to distinguish from lambsquarters, LOL.
Hi, Patricia. Last year I put aluminum foil collars on all my vines, and was successful. But a lot of trouble, 'cause you have to make sure they don't interfere with stem growth.
This is a great article: https://extension.umn.edu/yard-and-garden-insects/squash-vine-borers I'm going to try the "yellow-container" approach. Good luck in all your endeavors!
Tried "cloning" last Fall for first time - stunning success! Was gonna take pix and post ... We have very large S-facing, double-pane windows up here in Zone 3b/4.
Took cuttings when I topped them to force all to finish - set the cuttings in water right next to momma plant - rooted within a week or so.
Then the "fun" starts: pot them up before frost - only had 4 varieties and kept 2 of each.
Put them into larger pots, and take more cuttings ...
Repot the oldest ones AGAIN, and pot up the younger, use a little fish fertilizer ...
Put the oldest into 1-gal containers, take more cuttings, and re-pot the next oldest ... pollinate the flowers by hand or with a broomstick if you can't reach them ...
Decide what you want to keep ... try to give some away in March ... discard some ... figure out how in the devil you're going to be able to keep them alive/where to put them!!!
Eat DELICIOUS tomatoes in April ... don't forget to water them 'cause they're so gigantic ...
Cut the oldest, 7-ft ones back a little before putting all out to harden off with frost and wind protection on June 2 ...
Wait for rain to start and wind to stop so you can put them in their summer home ...
See them all freeze to death on the night of June 13, when we had a hard freeze out of a forecast for 38 ... cried my eyes out!!
BUT, the "cloning" was a huge success - I will do it again and recommend it if you have a good natural light situation with plenty of room.
From this "tutorial" and what the OP said, you can get the idea of not needing so many to start off with - just keep one of each variety going and take your cuttings late in the Winter.
John, this newbie had stunning potatoes last year - I'm knocking on wood - not a bug, nor any yet.
Yeah, I thought about the night-time duty with a "head-lamp", but having enough al-ke-hol to get me to stay up that late would probably be counterproductive, LOL.
I've cut up a bunch of bamboo skewers and will be using them next to smaller lettuce, etc - with popsicle sticks next to my nightshades.
Wishing you and all the best for 2020!
Howdy, neighbor Mike. Have horrible infestation of cutworms - taking lettuce, spinach, peas so far - right at the ground level. DID NOT know they could do this. Last year protected all my transplants with popsicle sticks and also never lost a lettuce sprouted in the garden. Tilling my corn patch couple weeks ago found MANY of all sizes, but sure I didn't get them all. STILL haven't planted nightshades, etc (so dry and windy + frost warning tonite!), but will protect them with sticks.
What did you do last year/this Spring? Do you think it's too late to try BTK? What a sucky Spring for me ... we got not a drop from Cristobal! OR any other recent potential rain events. We can see it coming on the radar, but the lake causes them to fizzle out. Was hoping and waiting for "sure" things - may have lost a couple fruit trees. Checking them today while watering for 3-hrs total of all garden/orchard.
Sorry for venting .. purpose here is to learn about cutworm control from anybody. TYVM
I have a horrible "hay" grass that is invading my garden spot from the fields nearby for many years before I came along. Spreads by rhizomatous roots which can be as deep as 4 inches or more and still put up shoots because there is a green leaf somewhere feeding the whole complex mat!
Lasagna didn't work from last year because I didn't fully understand this habit. I did the best I could this year before planting potatoes and onions, but it's still coming up in there.
Will vinegar kill this? before it kills me!!
Got problem with aphids in the house this Winter. Don't know why - stunted/killed all my nice cole seedlings before I realized what was wrong. Only spread to peppers, okra, and sweet potatoes - but I was able to save with purchased, OMRI, insecticidal soap. Used only new, clean potting soil - but some of my pots were re-used from last year, though they were never outdoors last year except for transplanting..
All my "pots" are "recycled" yogurt, cream, etc containers ... should I wash them every Fall? ... with what?
Thanks to "neighbor" Mike and anybody else who wants to advise.
Yes, Mike - I was a little worried when my son and I quit our gabfest at midnite, and it was 38 already! Frost warning for Iron Range, but we're 10 miles due South of the head of the lake - 41 was expected low. ANYWAY, the answer to my question is: one layer of that thin row-cover IS NOT enough for sun protection - got quite a bit of sunburn, but doesn't look fatal. Oddly, okra was worst affected - but probably due to spraying with insecticidal soap same morning I took them out. DUMMY. Got problem with aphids in the house this Winter. Don't know why - stunted/killed all my nice cole seedlings before I realized what was wrong. Only spread to peppers, okra, and sweet potatoes - but I was able to save. Used only new, clean potting soil - but some of my pots were re-used from last year, though they were never outdoors last year except for transplanting..
I only bought that row-cover last year for insect protection and never used it - can't remember how they described the thickness. We have no shady spots, as you describe.
All my "pots" are "recycled" yogurt, cream, etc containers ... should I wash them every Fall? ... with what?
Thanks to "neighbor" Mike and anybody else who wants to advise.
Anxiety-filled day, putting all my baby plants outside!!
Zone 4 ... they've been started inside with giant S-facing window ... are big and blooming (squash & cukes) ... cloned tomatoes have been giving for a month.
ANYWAY, do you think 1-layer lite row cover is enough shade ... PLUS I have made wind protection with bags of leaves.
Sorry for no pix, but most everything is in its third pot from seed and sitting together in their "bins" for bottom-watering.
I'm hoping to be able to just leave the row cover for a week before transplanting.
Tomatoes are in a different arrangement, where I can flip the cover on and off.
No frost or freeze expected in forecast - we are done as far as average. But midday SUN is already brutal!
Thanks very much for best advice ... good luck to ALL!
We got 3 last Fall with label of sodium polyacrylate. Been closed all Winter - look clean inside - no powder. Looked up SDS, doesn't sound too scary - no info on how to clean.
Need to set them up for watering garden using water from our sump pump - heavy in iron. Have just power-washed with water only. Any and all advice would be well-appreciated.
I did search but didn't find answer, so thanks for advice! Am confused.
Today I used home kit very carefully and come up with 7.5 - the highest range it shows. Heavy clay soil here, and the hay farmer across the road uses lime. The dairy farmer here might've used lime 20? years ago.
Garden was started a little late last year because of moving here. Used mostly lasagna/raised beds/containers with old hay, rotted manure, topsoil mix - no testing. All in all, I was happy with results - potatoes were incredible (added a little bone meal for them), and tomatoes good except for slugs. Totally organic practices except for "topsoil" - no more. Some things didn't thrive - mostly beans, but I think it was planting too closely and pest related.
Got a lot more beds prepared last Fall, and mixed up more soil amendments as mentioned for containers.
I think I'm on the right track, but am concerned that I might need to get more acid. I'M NOT SURE OF TEST RESULT, wondering if it could be more alkaline than test shows.
Snow is going away like crazy - I'll be able to get out there in a few days - should I add anything?
Thanks in advance for any advice or experiences ... wishing all of us BEST for 2020!
So. it was 2 weeks, and I had been only glancing at them on lower shelf by window - seeing nothing. Picked 'em up to check before posting lack of success ... they are covered with tiny green sprouts!
Now what do I do?? Also somewhat worried about the little bit of scab that affected the reds. When I removed from fridge, I rinsed them all together because their skins were slightly desiccated from storage, and my house is very dry.
Gonna plant in a new area and don't wish to spread scab. At least we know it worked, but potato sets are inexpensive, and I wouldn't mind tossing them. Would only keep perfect ones next year.
Thanks for the advice, you all.
Mike, I would say that the root is going in there for a reason - it knows something you don't.
You can just cut it off with a sharp, sterilized knife and won't hurt the plant.
Maybe fill the cracks behind it with silicone or something, or install some impermeable barrier like thin stiff plastic or metal.
How fun to grow your own vanilla beans!
LOVE this thread! Been sewing for well over 50 years - started with hand-sewing around 8-yrs-old - am now retired professional costumer. Taught my 9-yr-old niece to sew last year!
IMHO, sewing should be #3 on "homesteader" skills, after "green-thumb" and cooking! Save $$ and make $$.
Get started with hand-sewing, used "kids-sewing" books from Amazon, and thrift or garage sale items to use as your "fabric". You-Tube might be helpful, but you can also get lots FREE help/simple patterns by "Googling" something you want to make. While you're still hand-sewing, you should concentrate on learning mending/repairs and getting feel for fabrics; taking garments apart; ripping out seams; etc.
Years ago in school "Home-Ec", our first project was an apron, and it's still a good project to start - we all need one, or you could easily make an "egg-apron" or put pockets on pants.
VERY soon, you will want a machine! Don't be scared - my niece was completely able within 2 months. With about 3 total hours of instruction from me, and a good book from Amazon - she was comfortable AND successful!
PLEASE do not buy a "$200?" Brother or Singer machine from Wal-Mart or fabric "chain-store"! Choosing your machine may well be the hardest part, but it's worth it. Those machines are filled with plastic parts and not reliable over any long term. My personal faves are KENMORE, Elna, White, New Home, etc from the 1970's. Because me and my machines have spent a lot of time on airplanes and going thru baggage claim, I've had to replace them over the years. I've had good luck buying "vintage", tuned-up machines on eBay from reputable sellers/mechanics. VINTAGE - non-electronic machines are a "thing" - going up in value as new sewers realize that new, "entry-level" machines are not equal.
If you can find a sewing "mentor", you may also be able to find a good local mechanic. GREAT vintage machines can be had at thrift stores or garage sales for $25 or less and can be tuned-up for $60 in many cases. Home sewing has so much gone out of favor in the last 30 years ... great machines are showing up from clean-out of Grandma's house!
I hope I've been helpful here to gals or guys who'd like to learn this valuable life skill. Talk it up in your community, rural or urban .... you'll find sewing NUTS like me, who are willing to help!