Hi everyone, I have been around Permies for some time now and felt an introduction was overdue. I'm a stay at home Dad and finding time to type any useful/ coherent content from my phone while keeping up with my kids is a challenge for me.
I love working in the garden with my kids and trying to get them to eat healthy by participating in the process. Raspberry's are their favorite and I am trying to grow more than they can eat. Also we are fencing them I'm the yard with thorny black berries and black Raspberry's.
I love this Permie community and am thankful for their rules and monitoring! More to come, my toddler is demanding to go back outside.
I didn't know till recently how wonderful possum's are. They like to pick through our worm bin for produce scraps. We have the bin just off the deck out of sight. Now we all like it when the local crew drops by at night.
The sheep and chicken system sounds great! I imagine Guinea Hens could be mixed with the chicken flock. Also, a goat or cow might be interchangeable with the sheep.
I'm sorry to hear about the lime ticks are scary stuff. Hope you get back on track health wise. We have a family member that has struggled for years. Finding a Lime Literate Dr. Is slim pickings around us (Ohio)
Bounce Dryer sheets tucked in your clothes (socks) and under the beds helps repel ticks.
Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
1.) I can only apply sprays to my garden if I have a sprayer. I can't manufacture my own sprayer so I choose to not apply sprays to my garden.
2.) I invite people that want a world-expanding experience to go out to the garden and start eating insects... I really like the formic acid flavor of ants.
3.)If I had problems with insects living in the curly leaves of kale, I'd grow a kale with non-curly leaves.
4.)Many years ago, I made a garlic and hot pepper spray, and applied it to my houseplants. I had to abandon the room for a few days because it was too toxic to be in. That was the last time I sprayed anything.
1.) Very true, but we do have one from spraying compost tea (worm castings and Nettle). I've also used 5 gallon buckets and tree branches (with leaves) spreading it in the garden.
2.) I think eating bugs is great, but not all bugs are edible raw or at all.
3.) They were also on the straighter leaves of the Red Russian Kale and the Red Cabbage. But, maybe they wouldn't be if they hadn't established themselves on the curly.
4.) That could get smelly indoors, but I don't think it would be toxic. Those smells wouldn't be as bad outside.
Below is their list. 1-3 seem safe, am I wrong? Are you strongly opposed to any/all of these?
Also, last year powdery mildew and cabbage worms were a problem in the fall. I composted all of it. They liked to live in the stem and leaf curls of the kale. I don't think people will be happy with insects In their produce.
1. Tomato Leaf Spray is effective in killing aphids and mites. It works because the alkaloids in the tomato leaves (and the leaves of all nightshades, actually) are fatal to many insects.
2. Garlic Oil Spray is a great, safe insect repellent. Simply put three to four cloves of minced garlic into two teaspoons of mineral oil. Let the mixture sit overnight, and then strain the garlic out of the oil. Add the oil to one pint of water, and add a teaspoon of biodegradable dish soap. Store in a bottle or jar, and dilute the mixture when you use it by adding two tablespoons of your garlic oil mixture to one pint of water.
This mixture works because the compounds in garlic (namely, diallyl disulfide and diallyl trisulfide) are irritating or deadly to many insects. The oil and soap help the mixture stick to plant leaves. What insects does garlic oil repel? Whiteflies, aphids, and most beetles will avoid plants sprayed with garlic oil. A word of caution: don't apply this spray on a sunny day, because the oils can cause foliage to burn.
3. Hot Pepper Spray is a great solution if you have problems with mites. Simply mix two tablespoons of hot pepper sauce, a few drops of biodegradable dish soap, and one quart of water and let it sit overnight. Use a spray bottle to apply the spray to infested plants.
Hot pepper spray works because the compound capsaicin, which causes the "heat" in hot peppers, is just as irritating to insects as it is to us (have you ever sliced a hot pepper and gotten any of it in an open cut? Ouch!) This mixture also helps repel whiteflies, but it may have to be reapplied if you start to see the mites or whiteflies returning.
4. Simple Soap Spray is useful in taking out a wide variety of garden pests, including aphids, scale, mites, and thrips. Just add one tablespoon of dishwashing soap to a gallon of water and spray the mixture on the pests.
Why does this work? The soap dissolves the outer coating or shell of the insects, eventually killing them.
5. Beer for the Slugs: sink a tuna can or pie plate into the ground, and add a couple of inches of beer, to about an inch below the top of the container. The slugs will go in for a drink and drown. Beer works because the slugs are attracted to the yeast. It's really important to sink the container into the soil and keep the beer about an inch lower than the soil. This way, the slugs have to go down after the beer, and they drown. If the beer is near the soil, the slugs can just have a drink and then go and munch some hostas when they're done with happy hour.
6. Citrus Rinds as Slug Traps. This works. If you don't have beer in the house, but you do have oranges, grapefruits, or lemons, give this a try.
7. Newspaper Earwig Traps work well for reducing the population of these sometimes-pesky insects.
8. Soda Bottle Yellowjacket Traps work by attracting the yellowjackets away from seating or picnic areas, and then ensuring that they can't escape the trap.
9. Red Pepper Spray works well for making your plants less tasty to mammal and bird pests. If bunnies, deer, mice, squirrels, and birds are regularly messing with your garden, make the following mixture and spray target plants weekly. Mix four tablespoons of Tabasco sauce, one quart of water, and one teaspoon of dish soap. The capsaicin in the pepper spray will irritate the animal pests, and they'll look for less spicy fare elsewhere. Fungal Disease Solutions
10. Milk for Powdery Mildew. The milk works just as well as toxic fungicides at preventing the growth of powdery mildew. This mixture will need to be reapplied regularly, but it works wonderfully.
11. Baking Soda Spray for Powdery Mildew is a tried-and-true method for preventing powdery mildew. It needs to be applied weekly, but if you have a problem with mildew in your garden, it will be well worth the time. Simply combine one tablespoon of baking soda, one tablespoon of vegetable oil, one tablespoon of dish soap and one gallon of water and spray it on the foliage of susceptible plants. Baking soda spray works because the baking soda disrupts fungal spores, preventing them from germinating. The oil and soap help the mixture stick to plant leaves. Weeds
12. Vinegar works very well for weeds in your lawn and garden. The main issue with vinegar is that it can harm other plants. I recommend using a foam paintbrush to brush the vinegar directly onto the leaves of weeds you're trying to kill. This prevents the vinegar from getting onto other plants and ensures that the entire leaf surface is coated with the vinegar.
13. Boiling Water for Sidewalk Weeds: Boil some water, and pour it over weeds in the cracks of your sidewalks or driveways. Most weeds can't stand up to this treatment, and your problem is solved. Just be careful when pouring!
14. Vinegar and Salt for Sidewalk Weeds: I personally prefer pouring boiling water on sidewalk weeds, or pulling them. But if you have some really stubborn weeds, you can try diluting a few teaspoons of water into some white vinegar and pouring that onto your sidewalk weeds. Please note that this concoction will kill just about any plant it comes in contact with, so keep it away from your other plants, as well as your lawn. And the Best Homemade Garden Concoction of All
Joseph Lofthouse wrote:I don't apply any kind of -cides, poisons, nor protective chemicals to my market garden. I am a sustenance farmer, and can't afford the inputs, nor the labor to apply them. Besides, my gardening style is all about disintermediation: Not depending on a middleman (manufacturer, trucker, store) for the health of my crops.
My strategy is to grow varieties that are resistant, or immune to my local pests and diseases. In some cases, I had to develop my own varieties of plants and even pests.
In some cases I had to develop a clientele that views bugs or bug bites as a badge of honor
That worm never bothers the smooth leaved spinach.
If I poison the aphids, I am also poisoning ...
I agree with you, but lack that clientele for now. Small inputs used infrequently seems reasonable to have good looking produce in the meantime.
I'm all for using the resources on hand. That is what I'm hoping for.
Hi everyone, this year will be our first market garden. So I'm researching the best ways to solve potential pest problems in the future. I would love to know some safe and simple solutions (sprays) for pest management.
Does anyone see problems with the articles solutions? What alternative do you know?
What biodegradable soap do you use, if any? Is baking soda a problem for the environment in small amounts? I will avoid the salt altogether. Also, is mixing bleach and plant fertilizer (worm castings compost tea), soaking cotton balls in the solution and applying to unwanted vines an environmental Hazzard? I'm leaning towards yes, but previously read that solution on Permies. Would vinegar work in place of bleach (other ideas)?
We do not want to Incorporate animals or perennials in our market garden this growing season (next spring for animals, perennial added in the fall). We have a separate area for more permaculture and perennial plants already.
Henry Coulson wrote:
a) would you use this?
b) how much would you be willing to pay/donate?
c) what would you like to see in it?
d) could you help us? (even if you aren't a computery person, we could do with data on what plants like what other plants, yeilds in certain soils, what water concentrations will kill them.
B.) $5-20 depending on sample and preview. Possibly $60 if it was amazing
C.) I would like to see updates on Permies. I could see similarities between Civilization, Sim City, and garden planning software. I'll think some more on it. School systems might purchase the software.
D.) I'll keep you in mind. A wiki page could help maintain reliable updates for plant/habit info and real time updates for various activities. If Permies wanted to document their experiences into a useful data pack, that could be inputed into the program? I don't know, just thinking.
Good luck, I would like to play it in winter time.
I remember watching that. That is one heartfelt man that cares about farmers. Not enough profit margin for Mr. Wonderful.
On the practical level that is saving lots of water. 2500 gallons per tree down to 800 gallons. Saving 1700 gallons per tree. The economic cost of that water varies from place to place. But it clearly pays for itself. The biological savings is great, but not important enough for all investors.
I wonder what the environmental cost of the material used in its manufacturing. Off gassing plastic, reusing, recycling ECT. It's seems those cost might be outweighed by the water savings. Do any Permies use these?
Here are some resources I'm finding useful. I believe we have identified basswood, cottonwood, birch, and poplar as suitable candidates for oyster mushroom cultivation.
In the first PDF they barried part of the oyster log vertically, to maintain moisture. It is an interesting method I will try in the further future.
To start I'm leaning towards the totem method covered with paper leaf bag (no watering and only need chainsaw, paper bags, and sawdust innoculent). But I'm also wanting to soak logs for faster production to have something to sell this year. Both methods could complement each other. I need to learn more about soaking or watering logs.
"I know nothing" is another famous quote that could be perceived as delivering a similar message, "critical thinking" and "truth is a moving target"
The Cob reference illustrates the need for customized truths.
Realizing or reminding yourself that you "know nothing" is a humbling way to look at the world or a situation with a fresh perspective. It's could also be hipocritical if taken literally.
I'm personally humbled by the intelligence and compassion that Permies members display. If it were me I would consider changing the wording to reflect the members advice. In the end it's better to lighten the work load of the moderators and staff. I'm thankful they keep us safe from the trolls.
Since Spring decided to come in January for a week, we have been busy working outside. We have battled with dangerous vines (for me contact dermititis on the line). Spent many hours making hugle culture ditches to hold water in our garden.
Here are the steps I take to make hugle culture ditches.
1. Choose my raised bed location so they act as mini dams, to hold and slow water
2. Dig a spade deep or up to 18in deep ditch on contour to hold water in a puddle.
3. Fill those puddles up with decomposed wood from the forest ( grass clippings and leaves if available)
4. Cover up the wood with the dirt used to dig the ditch.
The process reminds me of the secret underground pond permaculture block Paul Presented In one of his videos.
Sometimes my raised beds have a hugle ditch on both sides to catch water coming and going.
Julia Winter wrote:Hey Steve, what you need to do is arrange a meeting between LeBron (or one of his people, that can be super effective) and Will Allen
I can see great potential for a connection between these two great (and great big!!) men. I can't call Will Allen a certified permaculturalist, but his work with self contained aquaponics (fish feed plants feed worms feed fish) in unheated greenhouses in Milwaukee can totally transfer to Ohio, and can accomplish great things.
Hi Julia, I agree that would be a great connection to make. I thought the same thing as I read through a thread about Will Allen. Someone like Will should have an advantage connecting with NBA Cares and other players. He is definitely in my thoughts moving forward.
Yesterday I cut down a large dead tree, thought to be an elm. The tree measured 68in circumference and 20in diameter.
I have three 40V batteries two are 4 amp hours and one is 2 amp hours that work with my 16in Greenworks chainsaw. The chainsaw does start to lose power at what I estimate to be 30% battery charge. Often I will switch to a fully charged battery, if available. I used 3/4 of all three batteries, in addition to half of another 4amp recharged. Total of 9 amp hours to fell the tree.
Canola oil was used in the chainsaw all weekend. I noticed the chainsaw went through the canola oil at the same rate it would have with bar and chain oil. Thank you Permies for that tip!
R Jay wrote:Permaculture today reminds me of another "movement"....that of organic gardening.
There was no internet to spread the word...on any alternative to Big Ag
I wonder if Permaculture will take the same path...promoted at first by a few people...then
finally it becomes mainstream.
I've thought and wondered that also with respect to the green washing that can happen with "organic". The word Permaculture is much harder to own than USDA "organic" . Joel did us a favor by buying the term "beyond organic" and allowing everyone to use it.
Steven Kovacs wrote:I wonder if it might be worth targeting people in the US who are young, relatively poor, and living in areas that have already declined (Detroit, older suburbs, etc.). Young people have energy and the ability to learn quickly; poor people could really benefit from saving on energy and food costs; and those living in areas that have declined are less likely to be concerned about "keeping up appearances" or being hassled by HOAs and zoning enforcement. Land is cheaper there, too (though of course incomes are less).
Check this out is Detroit! Cleveland is doing good too for the reasons you mentioned. Ohio City Farm is a great example as Amit pointed out to me. He also posted Cleveland is zoned agriculture now! The whole city! That type of innovative thinking creates artisans and vibrant communities 😀
I've received interested from some local organizations about collaborating on local permaculture initiatives. They suggested I ditch my GoFundMe and start over. So I'm asking that someone please delete the first post of this thread.https://permies.com/t/61112/Pay-Community-building-project-aiming
Also please rename the thread Steve's Garden Photos and place the thread in whichever topic you think is best.
I appreciate your help on this and permies in general. I will put more thought and effort into following the forum rules and improving my spelling and grammar.
Amit Enventres wrote: food forest in the metro parks, at least a dozen small scale urban farmers, plus food not lawn. Plus the laws here have been changed to encourage sustainable stuff in some cities. For instance, Cleveland is zoned agriculture. That's right. A CITY zoned itself agriculture.
That is smart and innovative, I like it! I've skimmed your year in review and liked the thread. I was thinking of doing a similar review for 2017.
I really love food not lawns. This is in Detroit, Cleveland and Akron can do it too!
Bob Barrett wrote:First post on Permies.com, just registered so I could reply to a longer thread about the Akron area and the Lebron James Family Foundation (I have an office in the building next door to the LBJFF School of Education at the University of Akron). Now I can't find that thread again, so I'll post here.
Hi Bob, welcome to Permies! The link to the other thread is a few post from the top on this thread. It works for me, but may be on probation with Permies.com.
You are welcome to post here instead though. Thanks for your interest!
Here a few more pictures from the garden. Mullein is growing next to the black raspberry. I wanted to point out that every part of the raspberry that is underground will be a source of a new shoot in spring. Those new shoots will be dug up and either planted in a long row (raspberry walk) or potted up. These thriving berrys were wildcrafted from the woods edge and transplanted into the garden. It took off like crazy with the improved sun exposure, soil, and water conditions. I will guess I can get 5-10 plants from this one. Plus if I dig up all the shoots and the main plant to transplant elsewhere, eventually new shoots will emerge in the empty space from deep roots left behind. Those are all reasons these plants were chosen for the Pay-It-Forward program. Plus they are delicious, nutritious, medicinal, can make a living fence/barrier, and are very healthy and easy to care for!
The snow melted again which led to more digging and mulching. I am thankful for the water, but working in the mud gets messy fast.
All this water has increased the flow in our local artisnal spring where we get our water from. Last night it rained even more so that spring should be flowing faster soon. The past two months it nearly dried up, according to the locals the only time it stopped flowing was a drought in the 80's, so I'm very thankful it didn't.
The reason is that, unlike other systems of thought, food movement philosophy is based on a biological understanding of the world. While neoliberalism and socialism are ideologies, the food movement is concerned with erasing (at least so far as is possible) all ideologiesbecause all ideologies are, at bottom, impediments to an accurate understanding of the world and the universe.
By replacing them with an understanding based on pure biology, the food movement is therefore in a position to supply what our society lacks: mechanisms to align human needs with the needs of ecosystems and habitats.
of being thought-leaders. Unlike most leaders, including of the environment movement, or the labour movement, or the climate movement, they have all attained visibility through popular acclaim and respect for their personal deeds, their writings, or their insights. Not one of them leads in any of the conventional senses of setting goals, giving orders, deciding tactics, or standing for high office. They are neither bureaucrats nor power-brokers, but leaders in the Confucian sense of being examples and inspirations. It is a remarkable and unprecedented characteristic that the food movement is a social movement that is organic and anarchic. This not to argue it is unstructured, far from it. Rather, the food movement is self-organised. It is a food swarm and absence of formal leadership is not a sign of weakness but of strength.
. The philosophy generates values and values are often the most powerful long term motivator of human behaviour.
The attitudes of the food movement also reflect the philosophy. Since the philosophy (see points 1) and 2) above) is universal, constructive, inclusive, flexible, and non-violent, so is the movement.
This analysis attributes the success of the food movement largely to factors internal to itself. Its members share an infectious vision which is constructive, convivial, classless, raceless, international, and which embraces the whole world. That vision rests on a novel and harmonious philosophy. It is also deeply realistic because it is biological in nature; so while the remainder of society is naively getting further out of touch with the natural world by adopting ever fancier communications devices, internet apps, high speed travel, Pokemon Go, and so forth, the food movement is busy getting in touch with that world and being successful in working with it.
Hopefully sooner, rather than later, the well-meaning but misled climate movement will come to understand the (typically enlightenment) error of singling out specific forms of pollution (CO2 or methane) and join with the food liberation movement. If not, the food movement may solve climate change without them.
Thanks for sharing this article! It was inspiring and encouraging. I didn't even know I was in The Food Movement till I read it. But, it did ring true to me.
I tried to pull my favorite parts out of the article to focus more on. Maybe use for marketing purposes. Yet another possible way to find a Permaculture path, by being involved with the Food Movement. Even though they seem to share so much already.
I think I'll call this feature Snake River falls. The naming of features or areas for our plot was an enjoyable part of reading Evan's Any Log and it inspired the name. Thanks Evan!
The second photo is of a future raspberry walk where I'll be planting a long row of berries. This bed started by digging up the sod along the line/ contour for water retention and slow transfer downhill (sometimes stream). I flipped the sod over and covered with grass trimmings sticks and leaves. When the grass grew long in areas I dug through again making a wider bed, then mulched again. That is where it's at now, but I did need to steal some mulch for Snake River falls.
Nick Watkins wrote:Glad I wasn't the only one working on the garden during that amazing reprieve!
It was great to get back to working the soil.
Nick Watkins wrote: thaw the soil out enough to plant on the next warmish day. "It's crazy enough to work!" I said.
Monday came and I was delighted to find that the soil was a balmy 40 degrees 8" down! Good enough for garlic, good enough for me! Hopefully this year is as productive as last year, my first year growing garlic.
It's better to get it in the ground late then never. I still haven't gotten over the hump with garlic with regard to harvesting enough to use all year and have enough to plant for next year. I hope to get there in the next two years though.
Working on another hugel bed today. This is two days and probably three hours of digging. But I've stacking functions as using it for my exercise, I never liked jogging anyway 😉
This is all done with my trusty spade. Digging with it the last three years has dulled the tip. Which may have led me to think of a name for our plot. The unpointed spade, or something along those lines.