Rebecca Norman wrote:Of course North Indian meals are easy to make as balanced vegan meals: rice or chapattis (aka tortillas), any kind of dal, and any kind of curry, which can easily be a vegan vegetable. But recently one of my sometime housemates, a South Indian, has been making dosas, sambar and coconut chutney, and I'm loving it, finding it much more appealing that the standard rice-dal-veg.
For dosas, he soaks overnight: one cup urad dal or moong beans, 3 or four cups rice, and a tablespoon of fenugreek seeds.
Next day, grind it all in a strong blender, adding in water as needed to make a pancake consistency. Then leave it another day to ferment, or not.
Meanwhile, make sambar, which is a yellow dal with vegetables in, typically drumsticks (moringa pods, but we don't get those here), so what goes nicely is lauki (lagenaria/bottle gourd) or zucchini, tomatoes, eggplant, maybe greenbeans and/or carrots. We can easily get sambar spice packets, and we add dried tamarind for sourness, and I now have a curry leaf plant as a houseplant so we fry those in.
Ideally, also make a coconut chutney, which the housemate has been doing because "fresh" coconuts have been available in the market lately.
Finally make the dosa pancakes very thin on cast iron, smear ghee on the flip side, or omit if vegan, and eat the crispy pancakes with sambar and coconut chutney.
Well, I don't suppose anyone will ever make this unless they have eaten it before and probably unless they have seen it made, but I've been loving it, and amazed that it's a full vegan meal and really very deluxe and delicious, even for a non-vegan audience.
Yep. Peaches are totally possible. I know Centralia well, I pass through all the time. The best kinds are Frost and Avalon. Nanaimo and Salish Summer show promise. One green world and raintree both have them
I was vegan in the past but wasn't able to keep it up for life reasons. I'm trying to be more plant based again now but have had a hard time finding things that are tasty and filling. I like variety and for my food to be fulfilling. I'm also 24 and am very physically active. While I love salads, I can't live on raw vegetables. It's also challenging because most vegan recipes are geared towards people who buy everything from the store, which is not me. I don't mind buying some things like coconut milk. So please, shower me with your tasty ideas and recipes!
I know this sounds like an oxymoron, but does anyone know of some willow that is drought tolerant? There are places I'm doing projects that need willow for medicine, feed, diversity, etc but that are dry in summer. The plant would be watered to establishment.
Welcome to Permies! Potted trees are perfectly fine. It's important to break up the roots when you plant. I've planted hundreds of trees both bareroot and in pots and they both work well, though some people have very strong opinions on the issue. As far as planting time I would lean towards planting now so they don't overwinter in pots. If you do overwinter in pots water them occasionally. If they're frozen solid for long periods they can actually die of dehydration.
I've ordered yuzu from edible landscaping and liked their plants. I have a good impression of them overall, though customer service was hard to reach for a while.
An interesting discovery has been made about grafting nut trees. It's been found that if you use a seedling from the tree whose scion you're using, the rejection rate is far lower. I know at least one nursery which practices this
But, seedlings are fine in my opinion. They just take longer to produce and are variable
I live in a temperate Mediterranean climate and the most successful method of growing food longer term is orchadry/food Forestry. It is far more drought tolerant and less maintenance longer term. This isn't to say that you shouldn't continue gardening, it's just an important consideration. Historically Italy had a lot of tree based agriculture actually, and still does. Olives, almonds, citrus, chestnuts, hazelnuts, and fruit were all historically important, even for animal feed.
s. lowe wrote:Sounds like peach seeds might be a great option for us in the northwest
Also I recalled that silica can be used as a foliar to aid in fungal resistance and I've seen pretty crazy general immune improvement from using sea-crop fairly sporadically (I'd imagine other sea mineral concentrates would be similar, I'm just partial to sea crop and it's kinda local coming from Olympia I think )
I'm trying to grow some seedlings from curl resistant varieties. They're in pots outside now and hopefully will sprout in the spring. I'll keep everyone updated
Compost tea didn't work for me, unfortunately, on the one tree I have that gets it badly. My best advice is to plant cultivars that are naturally resistant to curl. They will get some if left untreated, but the leaves just fall off. Frost and Salish Summer Peach have been best in my experience. Oregon Curl Free sounds promising, and I hear good things about Namaimo. Peach trees are not very long lived, so I would plant new ones every few years. For your current trees that are in the ground, you might try grafting over them.
There exist fruit harvesting calendars for the Pacific Northwest. I find them useful for educating people and giving them the general idea of what we can grow here, but they're wildly inaccurate if you try to use them for predictive purposes. Cultivars and microclimates make a huge difference. For example, most list pears as starting in September here. And while that is true for probably 90% of the cultivars grown here, there are several pears that will ripen here in July and August. Ditto with apples. And because of the hills, mountains, and proximity (or lack thereof) to bodies of water and urban heat islands, other variations can get pretty wild too even within the same cultivar.
Hello everyone! I’ve been pretty quiet on permies these last couple of months, largely because of how busy I’ve been. I’ve spent the fall organizing my denomination (United Methodist Pacific Northwest) to plant food forests. I might also be organizing an interfaith food forest near Portland.
This denomination is going through a schism right now, where this region will likely break off to form a new denomination that is more accepting. Other regions of the US and world might be included in this new denomination. I felt that this was a perfect time to introduce this other change, since a lot of soul searching and re-branding is going on anyway.
So far I’ve had a lot of success working with our churches to integrate more sustainable practices and teachings into their own lessons and practices. We broke ground on a small food forest in Shelton, Washington that included about 16 dwarf and semi dwarf trees. Each has an accompanying guild and there are shrubs as well. Classes are now being taught, sometimes by me, on soil building, native bee habitat, log and woven skep hives for honeybees, and more.
I’m working within my denomination to establish target quotas across the region for gardens, food trees, native bee hotels, and trees that stabilize our pollination calendar (climate change has really dried out our late season pollinator forage some years). A friend and I are approaching church leadership about buying clearcut land and reforesting them into food. If all goes well I’ll eventually approach other denominations about it such as United Church of Christ. A lot of churches around me were VERY hostile to these ideas. But I’m glad that some are not. The Reform Jewish communities in Portland also seem interested, among others. Through the bee club I’m a part of (Preservation Beekeeping) I’ve formed a Food Forest Committee and am working through it on the interfaith projects.
I want this post to serve as a positive example for positive, peaceful change. Sometimes we get so invested in our own farm and lives that we don’t even dream about making waves in the community. Hopefully this will give some inspiration, and maybe you in turn will have new ideas for me. Please don’t turn this thread into a religious battleground.
Anyway, attached are some pictures of the Shelton Food Forest as it was planted. I don’t have updated photos, but it looks even better now! The woodchips have all been laid out since then, and the shrubs added.
I would go with any but the first, simply because it invites partisan dialogue, which I would shy away from. Maybe choose "The Edge is where the action is." You could tie that theme into so many workshops and talks, including things like hedgerows and grassroots movements
Adaptive seeds often has her stock available. It's where I buy the sweet meat seeds I use. I didn't see that variety at a glance but they may have it. If not, their other varieties have been great for me:
It also depends on how tall the tree will get. It will reach for the light as it gets older, and when it's young it will probably be fine with the September shade; it'll just go dormant sooner I imagine.
I would aim for trees that ripen in summer, like summer plums and early apples (yellow transparent, for example). That way they have the sunlight for sugar when they need it. Trees developed for short growing seasons would also do well I imagine (St. Lawrence Nursery's stock, for example)
Looking like your homeless generally doesn't work to your advantage. If your appearance says 'I don't respect myself', others will tend to not respect you either.
Woooahh everyone, I'm feeling a little attacked by a few posts on this thread. I said that I dress "second hand," not like a homeless person. My clothes are not stained, ripped, or holey. They are just from Goodwill.
I bathe every day and wash my clothes regularly, just so we're clear.
I have a cosmic crisp tree in a pot that I'll be planting this fall. I probably won't get fruit off it until the fruit is already in stores, unfortunately. For now it's only available in Washington State (the tree)
I feel like part of living this lifestyle is breaking down current values and returning to or creating new ones. One example of this is turning lawns into food (valuing life, biodiversity, food, etc more than trends and aesthetics). Another might be going out of your way to produce something for yourself “the hard way” so you don’t have to buy it and contribute to an unethical production process.
I have faced near relentless criticism for living this way. I’ve received praise too, which is nice, but another subject. A lot of the criticism I’ve received has been about dressing (I dress comfortably and second hand) and other personal aesthetics. It’s hard. I don’t shave as often or neatly because of time and energy, I don’t care if clothes match, etc. Oftentimes I brush it off and continue about my business, but lately it’s been hard not to dwell on.
What are your strategies for coping with this? Do you turn to other permies and like minded folks when things get hard?
Next week I'm teaching a free class on home orchardry. I live in an area where people are very invested or interested in livestock raising. One element I would like to include in presentation and handouts is information on growing animal feed using drought tolerant trees and shrubs. I've done some research but it's been difficult to come up with lists of what works and what doesn't, as well as an adequate species list. I've heard that people use the following trees (and in some cases their fruit) for animal fodder. What is your experience? All ideas are welcome.
Mulberry (fruit for poultry and pigs; leaves as high protein fodder that can be coppiced)
Apple (fruit for storing as animal feed; leaves fresh and as tree hay)
Elm (I don't know much about this one)
Ash (same as elm)
Hazel (Came across it for fodder but I've never experienced using it that way)
Persimmon (fruit for fodder)
Storage pears (same)
Honey locust? (I've heard mixed things about using it for fodder)
Linden (I hear it can be coppiced and used for fodder)
Siberian pea shrub (for poultry)
Chestnut (nuts as fodder; leaves as fodder or tree hay, can be coppiced I have read)
I've been doing a lot of volunteer activism. I'm setting up a food forest at a Methodist Church on Sunday, and I'm moving towards doing a large interfaith project down in Portland with my bee club next year. Fingers crossed. Other than that, looking forward to fall and winter.
Food is getting so expensive that people are getting threatened at knifepoint over berry patches and one woman was killed over a mushroom patch. I looked for the article but couldn't find it. The berry patch incident happened to an acquaintance of mine. Part of the issue is that they can sell it in cities for a lot more. Fruit trees have been stripped bare in the middle of the night. In most years there's lots of extra apples rotting around here, but not so much anymore.
My solution, as mentioned, is to try to get more production going, like Nicole mentions in the original post. Some people on here have given me plants for that and I really appreciate that. I wish you all the best in your struggles, and you're in my thoughts and prayers and are represented in my actions
I think the interest is genuine, but also comes from fear (of instability, rising food prices, and potential collapse). People have a lot of anxiety, so creating a positive focus for that--a lightning rod if you will--is important.
I expect there will be failures and frustrations, but I think it will be worth it. We must do something.
We have not applied for grants, no. We may in the future. I’m doing this through a beekeeping club too (Preservation Beekeeping Council), but grants are hard. And honestly, it feels counter intuitive in a way. We’re trying to take things into our own hands and do things as a community, and move away from reliance on this larger system which is fraught with problems and unsustainability. So far I’m amazed at the resources put forth by the community, especially one so poor.
Food storage and distribution is unclear. People already bring extra food from existing trees and gardens to church to share. That happened before me, without any prodding. So that is a good sign. I think people will probably share the surplus, as some forms of permaculture advocate.
We’re working systematically to rebuild pollinating insects as well. I’m making hollow log beehives, and a man is producing bird houses and mason bee houses to put up. We’re going to try to put them up all over, including at people’s houses. We’ve already seen birds and insects recover majorly at the food forest in my town. We’ve even seen birds of prey come back.
Kamaar Taliaferro wrote:James, I hope to hear more about your progress in your community.
Especially how you've assembled this coalition of public organizations with larger private citizens willing to make use of their properties.
How were those people with private land encouraged to start experimenting with growing food? Have you applied for any grants, if you have what's the process like? What's your plan for food distribution, storage and processing?
Wishing you tons of success from MA
It’s been a bit of a juggernaut, getting everyone on board. I started with presenting at several Methodist churches about food forests and why we should do them at the church. Congregation members pulled in help from Girl Scouts, Master Gardeners, and others. People with grafting skills have come forward, among other abilities. I’ve put out the call on here and in other circles for plants, and I’m propagating a lot here. I’ve dug and potted up lots of groundcovers and fruit seedlings for rootstock. And I’ve got seconds trees that I potted up from a local nursery.
I’m now teaching regular classes as a volunteer at my church about everything from bees to home orchards/food forests. I will probably bring up permaculture soon enough, though I feel that that is a class unto itself.
For private land, I’m propagating trees to give out, and as I’ve said I’ve put out the call for donations too. I posted in a Buy Nothing facebook group asking who would be willing to plant and maintain a home orchard. So far the response has been positive and a woman has offered old fencing material to protect the young plantings.
As for getting people to experiment with growing food, it’s a mixed bag. Some people are fairly experienced with growing food but have let those skills go dormant in recent years. Some maintain a small garden. Some know absolutely nothing at all, old skills having been lost completely. So I have to meet everyone where I can. But people are very interested. (Part 1)