That's a good list.
I always get mixed up with the Turks cap. It's not Turks caps Lily it's Turks cap (In hibiscus/mallow family. Right? That's what you put and I think that's right. Agarita is another one I ate a lot. If you get past the prickly leaves they are good. I tried to eat the mesquite beans raw and they were too much for me. Be better processed I'm sure.
The memories.. What's the little creek called that runs perpendicular to 6th street and to the bookstore... Can't remember name of either creek or store..
Anyways I always found good stuff there next to creek but was scared to eat it. Even found squash and tomato plants out there.
I loved the pecans in zilker park. 😉
There was also a lot of pomegranate in the east side where I lives for a while. I also love prickly pear fruit though I never ate the pads. I also loved how the Chile piquin peppers would grow inside the cactus for extra warmth. I used to forage around Austin all the time. Good stuff.
I'm in Alabama now so most Texas plants won't do me any good. We do have some similar things I've noticed. I never knew Turks cap Lily grew so well here. We also have optunia and the chili piquin here too in some spots.
Definitely Tyler. I've been looking for recipes as I go along. Have you heard about the "Sioux Chef" using wild game and and some foraged edibles in dishes for his restaurant?
Also there is a cool website called hunt, gather, fish with some rad recipes. And... There is a cool dude on Facebook named Pascal something that does amazing things with wild foods including wild brews etc.. Facebook page he posts on a lot is edible wild plants. Pascal Baudar. Based in cali. I'm telling you he is a genious. Check him out.
Wow, Jennifer.. Yes, yes, yes. Exactly what I am looking for. I don't see your location on your profile but you mentioned some southern plants.. Are you int the south? How much land do you have/use? How did you get started?
I don't even know if I want to keep using native American land management since ppl have also been quick to try and dismiss that. I'm influenced by native american land management, but I'm not native american, and I have no interest in appropriating their culture by using their spiritual practices or anything like that. Strictly how they Fed themselves.
I may not be communicating well enough.
I am not interested in nit picking about how native only won't work. I know they will. That's not the issue. I'm not interested in the small details. I'm using all the land around my city including private lots, abandoned lots, and forested areas. I have plenty of space. First step I'm working on now is to clear invasives and selectively clear both saplings and older dead trees to "clean up" the woods since there are no natural browsers in the area. After clearing and analysis of existing species I will start earthworks and then depending on stage of succession I will start adding plants and promoting species that are there based on their preferences. My only question at this point (since this thread has dissolved into a debate about natives/non natives which I think is really silly to even try and debate since there are scientist that literally devote their lives to this research) is are there any examples of ppl doing this?
Thanks, I actually relied on foragingtexas while in Texas. I'm back home in Alabama now so some differences 😉
I have a pretty solid idea of plant I.d and uses etc.. I guess I'm looking for more academic based research. Did they just go into the woods and find the useful stuff and create conditions they favored? Did they do any earthworks?? Propagation? How/what did they trade as "cash crops" or trade crops may be more accurate. Did they "domesticate" any types of animals (deer,Turkey,quail,etc) working on any domestication of plants that got interrupted by us? Those sorts of things.
I have hunted and foraged 😉 a little more around permies and found some good resources and links.
Ok, if you aren't interested in using plants from the Americas that's fine. I'm not going to force YOU to. I'm just focusing on mostly natives of the americas on this project and I know that the amount of food/medicine etc that can be produced using these plants are enough to not have to rely on recently introduced exotic species since native americans have sustained and thrived on these same plants. So if you have any suggestions of whole system designs using these plants and how to incorporate them into the urban jungle in an aesthetic type design that could be appreciated by officials (obviously burning is out but that's not a big deal there are more sustainable ways anyhow) I want to hear all those suggestions. FWIW I am not opposed to planting something like figs altogether, if it wants to grow and ppl want to plant it. Hell I'll probably incorporate goats, chickens and whatever else I can get away with too (which aren't all native) so I'm not against exotics, just invasives like kudzu, privet, autumn olive/Russian olive, etc. And I do want to use mainly natives for staples like corn, squash, acorns/nuts, etc..
All great suggestions. We do have a variety of nopales here in bama. And Sunchokes get weedy here so definitely will be using them. I'm really into acorns right now too. Thinking acorn noodles as well as acorn soups. I spent a few years in Texas and fell in love. Where my native plant obsession began as well. Loved the nopales, chili piquin, live oaks, mesquite, dewberries, there were soo much more but I forgot them all. Lol. All the other goodies there though and the beauty of the scrublands.
And fire wasn't the only method of land management used. And not necessarily the most sustainable either in all cases.
Also... Yes I think if you have invasives like kudzu and you choose to use it as you are eradicating it that's great. If you use a mimosa and prevent it from reproducing by chop and drop that works. It is in my opinion not sustainable to introduce these species knowing you won't always be there to take care of them. And invasives often create monoculture when left unchecked which is horrible for the ecosystem and for soil ecology.
I don't mean to be rude but I can't let misinformation like this slide. I don't have to do extensive research to know that in most native american cultures the food they ate were most certainly mostly natives before colonization. What are the other options? Lol
And you can call whatever you want to native but if it evolved and adapted in Asia it's not native here. Lol maybe not invasive, but not native unless it naturalized along with it's predators/pollinators etc.. There are literally tons of research to back all this up. I may be wrong on details but yeah scientists have a method to determine these things.
Hey Rebecca. I love guns, germs, and steel and I'm fascinated by how the land has been managed using pre permaculture techniques and what different cultures sustained themselves on. Its amazing to me that instinctually, we knew not to deplete our resources or we wouldn't survive. I think we have lost that. I don't want to appropriate the native american culture as much as learn from their land management practices and diets and of course I'm all about empowerment and self determination. I want to use natives because here in the Americas we are crazy diverse in flora and fauna and have enough here to sustain ourselves. Again I'm not opposed to crops and plants from central and south America and Canada and Alaska. That's a pretty huge area. What else could you want? Natives are only mentioned to mean highly adapted or adaptable plants to this area. Lots of fruit and nut trees, roots, berries, shrooms,herbs/medicines.. Just no known invasives will be planted by me or anyone I work with. Easy. And native edibles/medicinals command top dollar here and elsewhere.
Yes I'm interested in mainly american (north,central and south as well as Canadian) natives as I have learned they all adapt fairly well throughout this continent and were probably traded fairly often and widely spread that way. I don't see it as black and white. I'm just trying to stay continent specific if possible. Obviously things like okra and cucumber and even strawberries (from Alaska originally right?) that would adapt well if they were transported by birds or mammals (like us) or what not is still game in my opinion. Just against known invasives but I don't really want to go there cause I know it's a touchy subject.
Food security, economic sovereignty and environmental sustainability are my main goals. I think native american edible plants and traditional land management practices and horticulture are the best thing we in the city can do to begin to repair.
Not sure what point you are trying to make Joseph. I think we are mostly on the same page. Although I disagree with a lot of what you are saying I think we are on the same page about corn, beans and squash being native and a good portion of our diet. I think nuts, mushrooms, some greens and some fruits for jams, ciders, and other preserves/beverages all play a key part in providing a part of a 2000 calorie diet. Its not about growing only one or a couple things. Its about whole systems.😉
(Edited to add other examples)
Sunchokes, other roots, other veggies like tomato is a good flavoring crop (and is exactly how I see tomatoes. Not as a main crop) herbs and medicinals for teas and other such stuff
While I wouldn't devote most of any area to the 3 sisters (and cousin) unless I was recreating a field/meadow biome I consider those to be natives to the americas and certainly a major food for humans and other animals. I just would also like to incorporate annuals, perennials, trees And so on as well for a well rounded and diverse planting area. Thanks for the reply.
The land owners are the only thing I'm worried about. I'm not too concerned with the bureaucrats. They can't catch me. 😉 Birmingham AL is a majority African ancestry city so people here are looking for a way to uplift themselves. There is a lot of potential here.
Thanks for the reply. That's exactly what I intend to do, preserve land, water and air in the city. Unfortunately that is the problem we are faced with since we can't and shouldn't all move to the country. Using lawns, vacant lots and abandoned and neglected green areas of my city. I think it is possible to incorporate a large part of native plants into diets and utilize those resources. I'm not saying I will literally feed billions, just that we should use the resources that are readily available to us to make a more sustainable city.
Hi, I've posted on other permies threads but never started my own.
I am really, really interested in native american land management practices and subsistence crops and crops they traded etc..
I am one of those "feed the billions" permie trying to bring aspects of permaculture/sustainability/ethics to the city and I think using traditional land management practices and natives that has sustained populations before us is a good way to tackle food insecurity. I'm also interested in using these same plants as a way for inner city folks to generate revenue. Hence incorporating land management practices opposed to foraging on public land. I want to teach people how to grow their own native fruits and nuts, herbs, medicinal, mushrooms etc and provide a place for them to sell/trade those products to create something much like a local economy based on natural resources available.
Anyway, my question is are there any successful examples of this? Are any of you undertaking anything like what I've described. I know Its ambitious and I haven't explained very well but I will try to work it out with you and answer questions.