Do they still make those 'coolant filters'. That would be nice to run inline, and if it was clear, you could see when it was gone. I still need to get something in place, but have not had time to get it in place yet.

I did however remove the top and side firebrick (because they fell out due to my temporary saggy metal). Anyway, I found it works fine without it, and lets me put in more wood, which lasts up to 24 hours. I also did a video of me cleaning the ashes out. I would like a tray, but for now this is not too bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXxZuP757dU

I like your sacrificial anode idea, and have heard about it, but am not very familiar with it.

Are you saying I could get a chunk of 'sacrificial anode', and throw it in my boiler, and it would corrode away instead of my steel boiler and water pumps?

I am very curious about how long the boiler will last due to high heat and water. I know there is some rust, because it was rusty inside even before I put the water in, due to snow, and rain while I was finishing it up. I can only imagine what it looks like inside now after having that hot water in there for months... All internal steel (firebox, pipes, etc) are made of 1/4" steel, and the outside water jacket is made of 10 gauge. I also have a copper heat exchanger in there. I know they make some stuff to put in boilers to reduce corrosion (a water treatment), which I have been thinking about getting. But currently I am just using water from my tap (soft water, which may even be worse because of salt). I plan on flushing it out in the spring....

Thanks James. I looked at that thread, but I don't really know enough about the stove to have any good comments, and It looks like they have it working. But I still don't know what they did to fix it..? I would think they would need a taller insulated chimneyt to pull a stronger draft. All I know is my chimneys are not tall enough to pull a draft, especially since the exaust hast to go down first before it goes up.


Anyway, I took some chimney temperature readings to see how hot the burn is, and how much of that heat is used to heat the water.

I found the hottest part of the pipe after it leaves the boiler is under 300 deg F, and it looks like my secondary burn is probalby over 2000 deg. Maybe I am wrong though...

Assuming the burn temperature is 2000 Deg, and my water temperatue is 160 deg (that is the temparture of the water when I took the video), At 100%, I could cool the air down to 160 deg (or lower it 1840 deg). If I lowerd it down 1700 deg (2000-300), then it is converting 92
% of the heat to the water.... Not bad!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsL6F_xnNyc

haha... that is funny, I have already been poring my used motor oil over my pile of wood. I don't know if it helps the burn, but it can't hurt. I like the idea of a dripper to feed that right into the second burn chamber, but I suspect bacon grease would harden up when it is -10 deg out... we would need to put it someplace warm....

I have always been afraid to use a used propane tank, because I am afraid it would blow up when I try to cut it, and they are kind of expensive.... I will have to think some more on that, but I do like the arch idea.

I will definitely start a new thread when I start working on the second boiler. I have a lot of thoughts on what to do, but for sure I need a better way to hold up the firebricks. Those strips of metal get hot, expand, then warp, or crack the welds (they were just a quick fix to see if keeping the heat in the primary burn are would help, which it did). I really like the idea of a dome top... I wonder what I could use for the steel on the dome???

I also like my cyclone mixer, I think it did give a little better burn, but this new design works well, and is so simple. When I get a chance I will draw up my current thoughts into some plans, and start a new thread on it.

I also plan on doing some modifications to my boiler this summer, but yes, I do think the second version will be nicer and bigger. I can currently almost get 24 hours out of one fill (unless the temperature gets too low), and this is using wood that has not cured. I think with a few modifications and good wood (I am going to fill my wood shed in the spring, and let it cure all summer) I will be fine with my old boiler too.

Thanks for your comments, I always look forward to your ideas.

Good to hear from you again James.

Yes that is actually very accurate. The only thing that is a little different it that the blower splits the air into the primary and secondary sooner than you have, and I do have ball valves to adjust the amount of air for each.

I attached a picture of how it I have it connected.

Other than that you have it.

I am still planning my second boiler for my friend (he wants the new version with a larger primary burn box). I want to make it so it is easier to clean and can run a 24 hour burn... When I have some plans I will post them.

sorry, for some reason youtube thinks that video contains copy write material. I uploaded it again, and now they like it.

I am not sure if I have explained how the secondary burn tunnel is setup or not, but I cleaned out my stove today, and made a video of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsmZ8qrLeSA

I hope this is the correct section to put this in, but it looks good to me. I am working on getting our home setup to be energy independent (meaning it won't have any energy costs). I have been working on this goal for a couple years now, and have just made a video of my progress so far.

video

I also have a website that describes what I am doing

www.independenthomeenergy.com

Plans I have beyond what I have done so far is to put up hot water solar panels to heat my hot water during the summer, add a second array of grid tie panels with battery backup, add an attached green house onto my house so I can have fresh vegetables year around, and grow trees around my property to supply my wood for my wood boiler (I plan on growing 3-4 rows poplars close together around the boarder of my property). I think this should be enough wood to keep me in supply...

Some other thought I have been considering in the future for fun:

1- replace my wood boiler with a true wood gasifier that runs a gen set to produce power. The waste heat from the water cooled engine and exhaust will be used to heat the hot water.

2- I would like to see if I can make a digester to produce methane, and convert my electric range and dryer over to running on methane.


So far what I have done is very exciting and has been working extremely well. My power bill has gone down from $200-300 per month to $30-$50 per month, and should be down to zero or even getting paid by the power company when I am done. I have received a lot of help on these forums while building my wood boiler, so I would like to share what I have done here and would like to know if anyone had any suggestions or thoughts on what I am doing.

Thanks for reading.

The boiler was put to the test the last couple of weeks. One morning it was -19, and our house was nice and warm. The only thing I need to improve on is the removal of the ash. I only clean it out once a week, but it would be nice to have a tray or something a little easier.

I also thought I would post how this has reduced my power consumption.... The last two months on the attached image shows you the last two years. As you can see Nov and Dec would normally be way higher, and this December has been extra cold, so it would be very high.

Just a quick update:

This morning when I woke up it was 0 deg F outside, but it was nice and warm at 73.9 - 75 (depending on the room) in my house. I am just barley getting by with filling the boiler up at night, by morning, it just has some coals at the bottom. So I fill it up in the morning, then by night it is usually about half empty.

I can't wait to see my power bill this month. Without the wood boiler it would be over $200, but I bet it is only about $30

Thanks James for the ideas.

It looks like we will see how well my boiler works this week. Look at the temperatures:

So it has been running for a a while, and working great.

I do think it would be good to have a way to remove the ashes though. Today is the first day I cleaned them out of the primary chamber since I dropped it down, and there were a lot of ashes. It was strange, because some of them were compacted, and hard (not light fluffy ashes like on top). I wonder if this is due to using wet wood? I have run out of my dry wood, and have been using wood that has only cured a few months, and came from very wet wood. It has dried a little, but it is still wet. It seems to work ok, but takes a little longer for the secondary burn to start working. It wouldn't be too hard to clean this out, but I like to keep coals going all the time, and that makes it a little harder to clean out. Next time I will just let it burn all out before I clean it, but that takes a little more planning....

Anyway, just thought I would update... Also my wife's burns are all better now.

I hope that your Wife is recovering from her ordeal without any complications, which can so easily occur where there is a joint and movement
involved !

Yes, she is doing good, we spend a night with her arm in cold water, and putting aloe Vera on her arm (we have a live aloe Vera plant that comes in handy for burns). It was only painful for that one night, but some skin is coming off, and it is itchy... It could have been much worse, so I am grateful for that, and plan on being much more careful from now on.

Thanks for the kind words.

This does raise a couple of points, This is mostly outside my skill set but, the lowest temperature that gives you floors you are comfortable with, would seem to be best for
longevity of the system> I am not questioning whether the temperatures ~200dF~ are safe for 'PEX', merely longevity, this would be much higher than what 'Levittown'
floors were ever expected to 'run' at!

The floors this is heating are mostly carpet, and some tile. I am not sure what temperature would damage my sub floor or carpet, but I would guess it would be higher than 200 deg??? The only thing I could think of that it could damage would be the 3/4" floor board, since it is compressed board. However they use this same board on roofs that go under black shingles. I would not be surprised if this reaches 200 deg, but I am not sure about this.

The circulation pumps are designed to go up to 240 deg, so we should be ok there.

However I do agree the lower the temperature we can run, it should be easier on everything. The problem is that I have found it heats hot water and the floors better if it is above 150 deg, and the boiler is more efficient running longer runs. If I had it run from 150-160 deg, it would just get the secondary burn running good, then it would shut down (this is probably an exaggeration, because the secondary burn only takes about 10-15 min to get going, but it does smoke a little when it starts up). So to take advantage of the clean burn, I am heating it up to 180 deg (I was going up to 185, but I am down to 180 now). However even when the blower shuts off at 180, it continues to heat up about another 15 deg. Because of this, I have very hot water at times.

I may do some testing with going from 150-160 though, and see how it goes.

There are many totally mechanical mixing valves that need no energy input to provide a tempered water flow at small or very large volumes, they are a Set and forget
control that will give many years of service, if and when they give problems, it is usually related to 'hard water' and mineral deposits/scale !

This would work great for my house hot water, and I plan on getting one for that. But it would not work for my boiler water running through my floors, because it would end up adding too much water to my boiler, and would overflow it.

I am hoping someone more familiar with 'PEX' and in floor heating will chime in here and report on ' best practices' operating temperatures and flows !

That would be great. Please if anyone knows more, let us know.

I would expect you might contemplate installing various 'in house' shut off valves useable in times of accident or maintenance. I know my kitchen water faucet has hot & cold supply line shut-off valves in the sink cabinet below the faucet, they rarely get used, but when they are used they are absolutely worth the installation. A suggest: never buy the cheapest shut-off valves that have a plastic valve stem!

Very true and I planned on doing that, but ran out of valves, so didn't add this one... I will for sure add it now.

So you have water tubing snaked around on the floor, embedded in a concrete like mass, or perhaps floor mounted radiators? Perhaps you could include a clear diagram/flow chart of the heating system, include various fixtures, valves, & function. It is difficult for me to imagine what your actual set-up is beyond the boiler itself which you have already explained fairly well. Did you ever find or install a mechanical thermostat valve & housing that is rated to work/bypass at the temperature you want? I think I remember you posting a few specifications beyond the boiler somewhere in this thread, or maybe at your website, but a diagram/flow chart should be easier to identify what your doing.

I have some infloor heating that was placed in the cement floor, but I have not been using that, because I am not sure they put insulation under it, and the floor holds so much heat, that is is hard to regulate. So right now I am using some aluminum fins that connect the pex tubing the the subfloor, and I am just running the the circulation pumps on trimmers. I plan on getting it setup better, but I just want to make sure it works for now, then I will make it more automated.

I will work on some diagrams, and pictures to help explain it better.

I just thought I would give a little update.

It is colder now (21 deg low, 40 deg high), and it is going through a little more wood, but not much more, and our house is warmer than ever, and we have all the hot water we can use (also our power bill was the lowest we have ever had). It will still last all night on one fill, but it is low by morning (just about 4 inches of hot coals left). But it only does one burn during the day(one burn heats from 160 to 185, but it usually keeps heating up to 200 after the blowers shut down), which means I don't put in much wood at night.

On another note to anyone using a boiler... Be very careful with water that is around 200 deg!!!

I added a second circulation pump for my in floor heating, and thought I could quickly disconnect and reconnect it before the hot water got to me (I have shark bite quick connects). I almost got it, but the tubing was bent a little, and I could not get it to go back in. Soon I had 200 deg water poring into my room (I have a drain, so it is not too big of a deal). But when I ran outside to turn the water off at the boiler, my wife tried to stop it by pushing in something to plug the line off, and burn her arm very badly (1st and second degree burns on her hand wrist, and part of her arm). I should have told her not to touch anything while I shut the water off, or better yet, shut the water off before I disconnected it!!! She had no idea it would burn her that bad so quickly. So lesson learned... be extra careful, and don't do stupid things like I did. Also tell everyone else how dangerous the hot water is.

Thanks James, however like I said earlier, it is warm this week (low of 26, high of 58 today). A week ago we were having nights getting down to 18, and highs in the 40's. I only ran my in floor heat for about 2 hours in my kids rooms. We will know more when it gets cold, but it is encouraging.

12 hours batch time with a 6" port,{wow} that is hard to believe, could you verify that practice/statistic please.

Maybe I worded that wrong. I fill with wood twice per day. That does not mean it is burning the whole time, as it shuts off when the water hits 185 deg

Is one batch approximately 1 heaping wheel barrow full of wood?

Even with the larger size, I don't put that much wood in each fill.

I am uploading a video of how much wood I put in. http://youtu.be/jV8GExHO4OM

I Have been doing this twice a day, however yesterday I only did it the one time, and this morning there was still a lot of wood left over. It is a little warmer this week, so that may have something to do with it. I also put a cover over the chimneys, and also put some dampers in, to help keep the hot air next to the pipe and heat the water faster. It seems to have helped.

Is any type of ash tray installed yet? Is it easier to maintain ( is cold start-up fast/ is as ash removal or build-up a problem ) now with the much larger primary chamber configuration?

I have not installed an ash tray yet, however with the open ports, it seems to push all the ash out at the end of the burn tunnel Yesterday I scraped it out, but I plan on leaving the primary burn area alone, and see if it keeps itself clean. But I do want to put in a couple of trays, and a baffle to trap the ash better.

About adjusting your port size.., obviously the smaller the port... the longer the batch time, but I can also see the need for a large port if using green wood, or during cold start-up, would you agree?

I don't think the port size makes much difference (to a point), because the limit is the amount of air the blower pushes into the primary burn area. Obviously if the port is too small then it will limit this, but now the limit is the air the blower blows in.

I can imagine a couple 1" pipe type auxiliary fuel ports/nozzles with your current set-up, located near the front secondary door, somewhat like I proposed in that latest previous diagram I submitted, and because your 'T" primary air supply is already near the front...might get increased flame length not only from the centralized triangle burn tunnel, but further blasting along those lower side walls that flow to the dual stacks. ~~~just a funny idea~~~

That reminds me. I was going to video that part of the boiler, so you could see what I mean. I can easily slide a firebrick, open that up, or even drill some holes up into the primary manifold (it goes right above the end of the burn tunnel).

I also like your idea of injecting more air, and it will actually be fairly easy (in fact it already doe this). Basically I did not totally seal off the primary/second area at the front, so some primary air just goes directly out through three. I could easily increase how much leaks in that area by moving a firebrick.

I am not sure if the secondary burn burns as well when the door is closed, but I do hear it burning.

thanks james.

What is the size of the port between the two chambers?

I may make it a little smaller, but right now it is totally open for the back 6", other than a metal grate over it.

I would say whatever your fuel/air mixture ratio is, it looks great, how is it adjustable?

I have a "y" connector to split off the secondary air, and have a valve for each pipe (one for the primary and one for the secondary). If my testing I tried it with a separate blower on each line, and wow did it burn....

I noticed you did not brick the metal walls where the flame travels toward the twin stacks. Is the primary chamber floor...flat?

No, it is a v shape, but it is flat where the secondary burn tunnel is. See picture

Sorry it has taken me a while to post here. I have not put the mixer in yet. I simply added a burn tunnel with a secondary air line that injects fresh air into the tunnel. I will post more later, but for now, here is a video of the new burn tunnel design.

http://youtu.be/4WJraMwX4AI

by the way, I am getting a good 12 hours between load times, and it is fairly cold (it was 19 deg F this morning), however I am afraid I will need more wood this winter....

That reminds me. I have been thinking about the blue flame, and I am not sure we are going to get it (at least any bluer than we have) without running the gas through a filter. When I was running my cutting torch inside the boiler to cut out the bottom, I noticed when I had it inside the boiler the flame went orange from all the dust particles. I have also tried forcing more air through (even using a second blower to force plenty of air through, and the color does not change). I have noticed after it has been running and is hot, there is a blue flame, but there are always some orange mixed in, and I think this is just ash, and other particles coming in.

Anyway, I have to go get that boiler going, my house is freezing......

Wow... You have put in a thought into this. It took me several times reading over that before I started to understand it.

I like it a lot, but I don't know if I am up for such a big modification right now. I just spend the last couple days moving my v bottom down to get more space for wood (I really hate running out of wood in the middle of the night). I hope my modifications still work. I have it all done except for getting the firebricks back in.

I think this design of yours could be great for a new boiler (one with a larger firebox so we don't have to drop the bottom down). Also I have found it is about 10 times harder to modify an already build boiler than is is to build it once. I have a friend of mine that wants me to build him a boiler like mine. Maybe I will try your design out for him.... or sell him mine build me a new one... man starting over makes me feel tired...

Sorry, I have been sick this last week, so I did not check here.

I can easily adjust it to run in shorter intervals by setting my thermostat at different ranges. Currently I have it heat up to 190deg, then turn back on when it hits 160deg. I have found it is more efficient when it is running hot for longer, because it takes a few minutes for the secondary burn to heat up. Durring that time it is a little smokey for about 15-20 min before it gets clean.

This week has been warm, and I have really only been using the stove to heat water for showers, the dishwasher, etc. With this, I only have to do a burn every couple days, but it will be getting colder in a day or two, so It will be interesting to see how much wood this really takes.

Also my tube to pull the syngas from the floor under the coals broke off (I only had is spot welded on because I was not sure it would work) and I have been running without it for the past few days. It lights up a little faster without it, but it is not a good of a burn, and still smokes a little even when the secondary burn is going (even with the air turned up to the secondary injection). I am not sure why, other than there must be less flammable gas without it being forced through the coals. Anyway, I will probably weld it back on next week when I am feeling better.

I still like the idea of moving the v bottom down, but I am not sure I feel like going through all the work right now. I may just use this through the winter, and see how it goes.... I just hope I am not out putting wood in at 3:00am....

haha... I think you may have imagined it a little worse than it really is, but it may be that bad in the middle of winter when this is running 24/7.

Cleaning it is isn't really that bad (at least not yet). The big problem I really see is that it simply does not hold enough wood, and adding more wood is not a fun task (not as bad as you imagined, but I do smell like smoke after doing it.

Also last night I left my in-floor heat on all night, and by morning my boiler was totally out of wood, and the temperature had dropped to 139 deg, and the temperature is not that cold (it got down to about 28 deg F). Even though it did keep the house plenty warm, and heated our hot water tank nicely, I think it will need more wood to keep up through the night when it is really cold.

I think moving the cyclone mixer would provide a little more space, but I think I will need more than that. that is why I am thinking about moving the entire primary burn chamber down lower.

I guess I could always use two cyclone mixers, and put them under the sides of the v bottom area, and turn them sideways.

I also think part of my problem is that I get no draft from the chimneys because I have two. I find one gets started flowing first, and the other one actually flows backwards creating a loop. this is bad in two ways. For one, it does not create any draft to pull smoke out of the primary chamber, and two it pulls cool air through the second pipe cooling the water instead of heating it.

I thought I would update a little bit, and give some thought I have been having.

The burn seems to be going good, and it is working well, other than the fact that by putting in the cyclone mixer up top, with the secondary air line, and also putting firebricks around everything, I don't have space to fit much wood... And filling the boiler is not as fun as you may think, because when you open the primary burn chamber all the smoke buildup rushes out the door. It is not too bad when it is not running, so if I shut the boiler down for a while before I fill it, it is not too bad.


However I would like to be able to fill the boiler with more wood each fill, so I am thinking alone the same lines as James mentioned months ago....

Basically since I am just burning the secondary burn right in the boiler, there is no real need to separate the secondary from the primary burn area. So I am thinking about dropping the v-bottom all the way to the bottom of my secondary burn chamber, and then place a grate over the top to keep a small secondary area at the bottom. Any wood gas created in the primary chamger would pass through the primary burn, and the coals on top of the grate, and into the bottom where more air will be injected to complete the burn. After then end of the primary burn, the hot air could be directed back to the front (through the area under the v bottom, then back to the front to help transfer the heat into the water.

This will take some work to move the v bottom down, but it would give me a much larger wood capacity, and it may even produce a better burn (at least it may not take as long to start burning clean).

I was also thinking (I am not going to do this now, but maybe later), it would be nice to have a chimney out the top of the primary burn chamber that could be opened when wood is going to be added so you don't get a face full of smoke when the door is opened.


Anyway, here are the pictures of the idea.

Did I notice your horizontal 1 1/2" intake air pipe sagging/bent in the video? I think it was sagging due to the extreme heat in the coals area, or the fact that your just throwing in those heavy logs onto a heat softened pipe, that pipe could possibly rupture/collapse with continued hard use, perhaps a brick support/protector might help with that. I know it is early in the season, but you might try producing another duplicate cyclone mixer with air intake pipe to have as a 'back-up' just in case the one currently installed fails for any reason. Remember during the coldest season, you are going to work the thing very hard, somewhat continuously.

That pipe could be bent from the heat, logs, or it could be that I did not weld it strait... I am concerned that the heat may burn/melt the parts of the pip or mixer, because it gets very hot. This winter will be an experiment to see how it holds up. However I have it all welded in, so even if I have a spare build, it will not be an easy change. It may be something I will have to redesign in order to hold up to the heat.

I love the current set-up, as everything has easy access for maintenance. Just for fun, you might consider while making a 'back-up' cyclone mixer/air intake assy. by changing the size of the air intake pipe, to change the air:fuel ratio. Funny I know~~~but you know me, always jacking with stuff.~~~ What I have in mind is a 2" U-shaped updraft collector [same as you currently have], but the naturally aspirated 1 1/2" air pipe might be increased to 2". As you know David, the more air introduced into the cyclone mixer should yield an leaner fuel:air ratio, and perhaps yield the blue or even clear flame. You might try again, supercharging the present 1 1/2" intake air pipe with your other blower experimentally... expecting a leaner burn.

This is funny you mention that. I have found there are times when the mix is too rich (I could see some smoke even though the secondary burn was burning). By adding a blower to the secondary air line, the secondary burn would get hotter, and the smoke would go away. Because of this I was thinking of running a T off the blower to increase the flow into the secondary burn, I may even put a valve in there to be able to control it.

Does your intake air now draw more fresh air that previously stated in earlier experimentation: "will blow out a match"? (in this case I imagine your preheated air is extremely hot, and therefore the Oxygen content is extremely diluted, ideally I would want cooler intake air, because 'the denser the air, the more Oxygen is available for combustion')
Of course there is a trade-off with leaner/hotter mixture ratios, the maintenance & component failures will increase, but you get better fuel consumption, and better air pollution, faster thermal conversion into the water jacket~~~which seems worthwhile goals.

When the secondary burn is running, it does draw enough to blow out a match or a lighter, but it is hard to know for sure how much air is going through. I would also like to know how hot the air is. Hotter air will help the secondary burn start up, but once it is going, colder would be better, so I am not sure which is best. Everyone else says to pre-heat the air.

What is the exhaust temperature at the top of the chimney? I would consider putting a rain cap/spark arrestor on those stacks, internally rusted pipes are not your friend!

I have not measured the exhaust temperature lately. The pipe is about 200 deg. Thanks for reminding me. I do plan on putting a cap on the stacks, I just have not got to it yet.

Is there a thermostat/regulator of some type that you intend to use, to prevent overheating the house? How funny an idea would it be, if you were to plumb in an auxiliary radiator into the woodshed, thereby redirecting/bypassing all unregulated [excess] heat away from the house and into the woodshed. This 'woodshed radiator' could be coupled with a fan, could come in quite handy for drying that $5/cord green wood, but also, used to dehydrated food stuffs, or laundry, or just be a fun place to hang out.

I have the water temperature regulated by the controls that turn on and off the blower, which has been working great. I also have circulation pumps that I plug in and unplug to turn on hot water circulation through the floors of my house, but I have not regulated it yet, I am still testing to see how well it works.

I don't know if it would be worth trying to configure a secondary chamber, 'charcoalizer area' at this time, (because a pyrolysis vent would have to be addressed...wouldn't want to waste the syngas production from charcoal making, out the chimney) but I think you can see the potential now for your wood boiler, and a good amount of charcoal on hand would be very useful.

If there was an easy way to circulate the syngas back in, that would be a very good plan, but even wasting it, it could be a good way to make charcoal.

I think a project summary should be made with pictures/diagrams, proper component names, & working specifications should be useful so that others can try to duplicate your results, with very little 'trial & error', & I think it is necessary for this & your website http://www.independenthomeenergy.com/projects/wood-boiler/control-system/ also.

Yes, I agree. I have been so busy lately I have not had a change to get that done. I have a lot of updating to do on my website, because a lot has changed since I started. However right now I am trying to get everything done that I need before the snow flies, which includes getting more wood, and finishing my in-floor heat (I only have in-floor heat in 1/2 my house). I want to organize my site, and put the relevant videos on it (not all the testing ones, but the ones that show my current setup). Once I get it done, I think it will be useful.

James, Thanks for your kind words. I will keep you updated with my wood consumption, since I have never had a wood stove (except when I was a kid), I don't really know how much I expect to burn. I figure I have got about 3 cords of wood, but I feel like I will need to get some more. Also some of it is green (I got it from our local garbage dump where tree trimming companies drop off scrap trees for $5/cord).

ohh, yes I do have water under the secondary burn chamber, so the only loss of heat will be through the doors, chimney, and any that is lost from the water through the insulation (which about 8-10 inches thick). I heated up my tank on Saturday night to 165 deg, and even using it to heat my hot water tank a few times it was only down to 130 deg This morning (about 36 hours).

I thought I would post an update if anyone is interested. I have finished building my shed around the boiler, and did a real live burn, heating my hot water and in floor heat. It worked great, and I found with the insulation and hot water around the stove, it would keep enough heat in the coals to ignite again even after sitting for over 12 hours. Anyway, I posted a couple more videos on youtube.

http://youtu.be/aw4EI9KJJJg This one shows the burn
http://youtu.be/aC6kQrE5ocw This explains the secondary air injection.

Ok, I read through the catalytic converter details, but it does not sound like it would work or help with my system. It says it will make chemical compounds in the smoke combustible at lower temperatures 500-100 deg, instead of needing to be over 1000 deg to burn break down. Since mine is already burning, and I am sure it is well over 1000 deg, then I don't think this would really do anything for this stove.

On my next burn, I will get some reading near the outlet of the secondary burn just to verify it is over 1000 deg (since that is as high as my thermometer goes).

Thanks james. I started reading the article, but I am just too tired tonight to stay focused on it (I finished my wood shed, and got another load of wood, and I am tired).... but I will look into it.

From your latest video, you had a temperature guage, but could you monitor & post some flame temp. readings of the secondary chamber flame itself, when you have the secondary chamber door open. This temperature might tell you if your flame is truly blue, without it being nighttime!

The monitor I have will not read the flame temperature, but will read off a surface. However it maxes out at 1,000 deg F. So it maxes out when I go to any surface near the flame. And I don't have any thermometer I can put in there to read that high of temperatures.

The best way for me to measure that temperature is by the color

Color

752 Red heat, visible in the dark
885 Red heat, visible in the twilight
975 Red heat, visible in the daylight
1077 Red heat, visible in the sunlight
1292 Dark red
1472 Dull cherry-red
1652 Cherry-red
1832 Bright cherry-red
2012 Orange-red

If you see my video when I show the exhaust mixing unit, it looks like it is in the 2000 range, but that does not really tell me what the secondary burn temperature is.

Thanks for the link. However it does not really explain everything. Can I really just crush up some coal (how about charcoal), mix it with water and put it in my engine? I am sure this would plug injectors in fuel injected engines, but how about carbonated ones? Would you need to remove the fuel filter? Will it destroy the engine soon....?

It seems too easy to be true, so I am sure there is more to it than that. Usually if something like this worked I wold see all kinds of you tube videos on it, but I don't see much at all.

sorry, I messed up on that last video... here it the fixed version... It is uploading now, but should be ready in 15 min.

http://youtu.be/rqCKFTGKZhs

Ok, I just made a video. The previous test I did was in the evening, I don't think you can see the blue flame during the day.

http://youtu.be/C1QZ7uEDsUU

hey david, hurray! so far so great! Blue & even clear is outstanding! I never could of figured this out from what you had posted previously. Thanks for clarifying in your latest post.

Yes, I would have been surprised if you figured it out with my other post. I was just excited and wanted to let you know it was working.

~~where you able to see any flame swirling caused by your set-up?~~

No, I could not see the swirling. the volume of the gas coming out was fairly fast, and the air being sucked in was less than I expected (it is vented to the outside air, and I could hardly feel it sucking in air, except when I lit a flame at the opening it sicked it in with enough flow to put out the match, so it was pulling in air). I put it at an angle to swirl it around and help mix air on all sides of the gas, but I am not sure if it did that or not...It is just too hard to see. I will get a video of it next time

Q. #1 Is the 1 1/2" inlet air pipe plumbed directly to the air pump/ outside air? ~~your drawing kind of shows that pipe not making it directly to the outside of the stove, so I'm curious if it connects directly to the pump/ outside air. (your previous 'exh. manifold' did NOT directly connect to outside air, this is why I ask)

Yes, it pulls from outside the boiler completely separate from anything else. It also goes through a very hot area of the primary burn, so it should preheat the air very well. The idea for this is so it will pull the air it needs, but no more or no less. I did put a blower on the the pipe while it was burning to force more air it to see if it would do anything, but it did not change the burn in any noticeable way.

Q. #2 Without changing your 2" "U" shaped wood gas collector, would it benefit your set-up at all to add an additional pipe that is perforated, and lays underneath the hot coals (like a manifold rail that is connected directly to the 2" "U" shaped wood gas collector, runs horizontally, and lays in the base of the V shaped trough)?

I really like that idea a lot... I think it may help to keep a good even flow through the coals, and should help.

Q. #3 Is the fire easy to tend, by simply pushing a pile of hot coals over the 2" "U" shaped wood gas collector?

I have not done much testing, but it seems very easy. I had cleaned out all the old coals to put in my modifications, and when I was done I just but the coals back in (around the gas collector), then put a few more logs on top. Then to start it, I just lit a piece of paper then threw it on top of the coals (with the fan on). I let it burn for a couple minutes, then shut the door, and in a couple more minutes it was burning clean. I have not burned it long enough to have to add more wood, and see how it reacts to that. Hopefully it keeps producing enough coals to keep it working.

Q. #4 Are you happy with the new size of the 4" mixer, as being small enough to actually conserve wood fuel?

With the amount of testing I have done so far, it seems perfect. It seems to slow burn the wood on top (smoldering it), but then finishes the burn clean in the secondary burn. once it is lit, I can even turn the burn down to a really slow burn, and it still keeps the secondary burn going (at least it did in my short test run).

Q. #5 Will you expect to fill the secondary chamber with brick/dirt to capture heat, but also insulate/slow the cold natured water passages from too quickly absorbing the heat of efficient combustion?

Yes, it seems to work without the bricks, but I will add them in to help it burn even better.

Q. #6 Do you expect to load a single batch, burn hard & fast, and gain enough heat to keep the home warm without any other fire tending? (is the water/house capacity somewhat matched to the size of the wood batch) Or will you possibly keep a continuous fire tended for home use, but may be less fuel efficient? (I ask this because your 'mixer assy' is more efficient now, but it seems smaller than the port you had before...which should have an interesting effect on tending the fire.)

I plan to set the fans on a thermometer to keep the water in a set temperature range (between 140-180 deg F). I will be heading my house with the water, but I think even on the coldest days it will have to shut off at times, but it will not burn too hard & fast with this new design. I am hoping that I will only need to load it twice per day, but it will depend on how cold it is, and how efficient it burns, as well as how much heat is lost to the cold air. I am afraid I will loose a lot out the chimney. I guess I just don't know the answer to this for sure until I start using it.

I still need to put in the firebrick, and put baffles in (so the hot air does not just quickly go up the chimney without heating up the water).

I am trying to find more information on this. I have heard you can run a diesel engine on it, but I can't find any information on how to do it, or if it really even works. If anyone knows where I can find more information on this I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Sorry I did not give much information last night, I was just excited that it worked. Let me try and explain it.

First it was not using a burn tunnel. I tried that this last week, and I still could not get the burn to stay clean. My guess is from having too much non combustible gasses, but I don't know for sure.

So this is what I did. First I made a mixing tube which will create a vacuum to pull in fresh air. This consists of a 2" pipe going into a 4" pipe, with a 1 1/2" pipe feeding fresh air into the side (going in at an angle to produce a swirling motion). The 2" pipe is turned down to pull gas from the bottom of the primary burn chamber, which is surrounded by hot coals. I did this so that all the wood gas is forced though coals before it is introduced into the secondary burn. I hope this description along with the picture makes sense.

I also noticed the flame started blue with a mix of orange, then changed to almost totally clear with just a slight orange to it.... I am not sure what that means for sure, but the burn was very clean out the chimney.

With this setup, I was able to keep the burn going with my fans (the fans only feed the primary burn) on full, or turned way down. With the fans way down, I got a much slower orange burn though.

Remember CO2 is a pollutant...consider your new wood barn full of wood, and all of it being converted into CO2 and other things & heat,~~~not a green result at all!~~~

I am not doing this to be "green", but am doing it to gain energy independence. However to me it seems like it is basically not creating any pollutantce, since I am growing my own trees which will be converting co2 to o2 for the life of the tree, then will basically do the opposite when I burn them. To me this seems much better than burning propane, or even electricity... but maybe I am wrong.

I did a test tonight and it seems to work very well. It fired up quickly (the secondary burn started up in about 5 min on its own and did not go out until I shut the air off. It then reignited back up when I turned the fan back on after being off for 5 min. It only smoked a little for about 1 minute before the secondary burn ignited a nice blue flame.

I will do some more testing on Monday, and take some videos of it, but that may of fixed it.

I don't mind being corrected, however in this case I think I have the order correct, even if my wording may be confusing.

I was just saying I think the problem is that I am not forcing the gas through coals to convert the non-flammable co2 to flammable co


Edit: I got it backwards this time and had to correct it....LOL

So I did some more testing this week. I did not make a video. However I created the longer burn tunnel in the top section, and it did not seem to make a difference.

I have been doing a lot of reading on gasifiers, and I wonder if the problem is that I am not forcing all the smoke to travel through hot coals to convert all the co2 to co. Because of this I have too much inflammable gas, and it does not burn as well. So... I am thinking I need to turn it into a downdraft with a bed of coals at the bottom where all the exhaust has to travel through.

I am still trying to come up with ideas on how to physically do all this, but wanted to know your opinion on it.


p.s. my daughter has fully recovered from getting her appendix out, and my car is running again after fixing the head.... now I need to replace the exhaust system since my muffler just fell out...