james cox wrote:

"You might be thinking that Blossom End Rot is a calcium deficiency, but that is not correct. The rest of the plant can have lots of calcium, and Blossom End Rot can still develop. More recently, scientists have had a closer look and found that the problem is one of moving calcium around inside the plant, not necessarily a shortage."

well don't leave us hanging christina, how do we get the calcium flowing through the plant? happy face on my tomatoes getting their calcium

or anyone else can answer that  knows, would love to not have blossom end rot in my tomatoes.

cheers    james

I've heard of epsom salts being recommended to prevent blossom end rot. The idea, I believe, is that the magnesium helps the plants move calcium around in the plants, as it is supposed to do in the human body as well. A quick Google search is a bit confusing though. One source says that too much magnesium can actually block the absorption of calcium by the plant.

Probably, as with most things, a rich, living soil is your best defense against blossom end rot. That always seems to be the best bet for covering all bases so plants have what they need, and the ability to uptake it.

This question has been answered very well by previous commenters, but I just wanted to expand on a few things.

Those worms you pick up from your driveway and road edge would be perfect to add to your actual garden beds. They will do excellent work for you there, adding worm castings and aerating your soil in place. So yes, have fun picking them up from elsewhere and adding them to your garden. I would not add them to a worm bin, since they are "earth worms" and need soil, unlike the  "litter worms" you most likely purchased for your worm bin.

Also, your purchased worms will multiply very quickly, given a proper environment, so no need to add more worms anyway. I did an experiment a few months back, in which 10 Red Wigglers multiplied to become 120 Red Wigglers in just 8 weeks. In a separate bin, 10 Indian Blue Worms multiplied to become over 230 Indian Blue Worms in the same amount of time. And that was not counting cocoons or the tiniest babies that I missed. Most composting worms that you purchase will be a mix of Red Wigglers and Indian Blues, unless the seller specifies otherwise.

I homeschool my 6-year-old and 9-year-old, and I am seriously considering buying this book and doing a study on aquatic life. It's just so pretty! And since aquatic life is such a broad subject, we could branch out from there into different habitats or creatures that spark our interest. And then I could buy more books, haha. Our local public library is very small and kinda sad, and I was thinking after doing a study unit we could donate these wonderful books to them, sharing them with others, and still get to check them out if we wanted to read them again.

This book also looks great. It even has a very simple introduction to the soil food web, which is really cool. Most permie kids will already probably know as much about that as what is in this book, but it's still neat. I could totally see using this book as part of a study unit on plants

This "Magic and Mystery" series is so beautifully-illustrated, and packed full of bite-sized bits of info for kids. I know we have checked out the tree one and I think the bug one from our library in the past. We recently got two big books from Costco that seem to consolidate all 4 books into 2 volumes. I don't know if they shorten them down to consolidate them, though. Those big consolidated volumes were only $12 each, though if money were no object I would prefer to have 4 separate books with individual focuses.

J. Hunch wrote:I track laying in a spreadsheet, and I haven't noticed anything unusual about this year's egg production. I buy store-brand feed and selectively breed for consistent laying. My ideal hen lays a decent number of good-quality eggs every year for her entire 5-10 year life. I don't enjoy raising the commercially-favored hens bred to have 1-2 years of high productivity and then get replaced after the inevitable steep drop-off. I also select for winter laying when I can, but it's a hard trait to come by. A hen that lays in the winter over the age of 2 is a rare gem.

eggs collected from three 6-year-old hens over the past few days

This is so interesting to me. We don't eat our chickens, and they will continue to be pets/ bug eaters/ soil builders for the rest of their natural lives, whether they are laying or not. So I would love to have chickens that keep laying at a moderate rate for most of their lives. What breeds did you start with, when you began selecting for chickens that lay this way?

Would it be accurate to say that the ones that lay more moderately tend to lay for longer? I would love to hear a lot more about your experiences with this.

We LOVED those Smithsonian books that you mentioned in your original post, and I collected the majority of them off of Thriftbook.com when my kids were younger.

We also really liked Laurence Pringle's books; the two that we own that come to mind are "An Extraordinary Life: The Story of a Monarch Butterfly" and "A Dragon in the Sky: The Story of  Green Darner DragonFly". These are both long and detailed, but are realistic, interesting stories about an individual member of each of these species, as they avoid danger and complete their life cycles. They held held my kids' attention from age 5 or 6. Now that my daughter is 9, she reads them on her own from time to time.

I really liked Jean Craigshead George's books "The Wolves Are Back" and  "The Buffalo Are Back". The way she describes the connectedness of the ecosystem, and how taking out one creature affected so many others, in a way understandable to little kids, is just wonderful. However, because both of those animals were intentionally driven to near-extinction, these books could be a bit heavy and sad for little kids. Both end with an upbeat message, since conservationists did bring them back to some degree. The illustrations are gorgeous and uplifting, and overall, I think they are fantastic. Jean Craighead George also wrote a bunch of other great picture books and chapter books for kids. Some do deal with habitat loss, so you'll have to read them and decide what you are comfortable with.

Jim Arnosky is another great author of children's nature books.

I don't think you NEED to crush the eggshells, but you might want to so that their benefits are available in your worm bin. The two main reasons people add crushed eggshells to a worm bin is to make the environment less acidic, and also to act as grit in the worms' guts. Worms don't have jaws and can't bite, so can only take in very tiny particles of anything, including eggshells.

If you don't want to use electricity, an old-fashioned mortar and pestle would probably actually work better. I wish I had one. I use a food processor for just a few minutes, and I feel like it uses very little electric, compared to so many other things I use on a daily basis.

Now I am curious how long an eggshell would take to break down in the bin without crushing. I might add just one to see.

This fellow made something very similar to your idea, complete with a tutorial. I love Captain Matt's channel. His enthusiasm is so contagious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cqjmCNGhfM&t=912s

German Herrera wrote:What may be the best way to check the ph of the composting bin? Ph strips? I always feel that reading them is so subjective. Please advise. Thanks.

Honestly, I have never done tested pH, so I couldn't tell you! Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in. I just add ground up eggshells whenever I have them and call it good... not the most scientific approach, but it is working so far.

From what you described with your own chickens, it sounds like they are stopping/ slowing down in laying in the fall and winter, or when molting, which sounds totally normal. I'm guessing they laid through that first winter because they were so young and had just started laying. But my understanding is that laying through the winter is not very common with most breeds.

I'm not against conspiracy theories, but I do think that one is a bit far-fetched. As big as the homesteading movement may seem to those of us who make it our way of life, it is still actually very tiny compared to the masses of people who are still going to the grocery store for all of their needs. So a complex conspiracy simply to undermine the efforts of backyard chicken-keepers... I just don't think so.

I think this has a lot to do with inexperienced chicken-keepers not knowing that laying slows down after a few years, and in the winter. As far as folks getting more eggs when mixing their own feed, it is surely possible that the chickens like that feed better and eat more of it, and/or it has better nutrition than commercial chicken feed, so those people may be getting more eggs when switching. That does not suggest a conspiracy to me. Just basic capitalism, which is no secret. Commercial feed producers are of course going to make their feed as cheaply as possible, to make as much money as possible, while also not probably understanding (or caring) that whole foods are usually more nutritious. If you read the label of basically any commercial animal feed, a lot of those ingredients do not sound much like food. But it is all printed there in black and white for us to make our own decision about.  

Even the idea of getting more eggs when mixing your own feed; well, there are just so many variables possible in anecdotal accounts. Maybe they switched in the springtime, when the birds would have started laying more anyway. Or maybe there was some other variable. The only way to really know would be to do an experiment and raise 2 batches of chickens, side-by-side in the same conditions, except offer one group commercial feed, and one group home-mixed. I would even do a third group and feed them commercial organic feed. My chickens free-range, and I don't have those kinds of resources, but I would love to know what the results were, if anyone ever did it. I do firmly believe whole foods are better, so I would not be at all surprised if a balanced home-mix yielded more eggs, and healthier chickens that laid for longer, especially if that mix were soaked or fermented for easier digestion.

I live in Texas too, about halfway between Austin and College Station. I planted a few comfrey roots in my veggie garden last fall, and they are doing great. I did keep them watered through the summer, just because I was watering that bed anyway. So I can't speak for how they would have withstood the summer without water, especially their first year. Our winter temps last winter did not phase it in the least, nor did the high summer temps. It even flowered nicely sometime during the summer, which was nice for the pollinators. I haven't tried feeding it to my animals yet. I am growing it more as a companion plant and I will probably make fertilizer from it when I have more of it. I might dig around and see if I can divide it sometime this winter/ early spring, when I have time.

I got my starter roots from a seller on Etsy. It was a variety that doesn't make fertile seeds.

I don't know if that mold is necessarily a problem, but it can be a sign that your bin is a bit out of balance. It may be a bit too wet, or you may be overfeeding your worms; basically feeding more than they can digest in a reasonable amount of time. If it were me, I would probably dig around with my hands, mixing things up and seeing how it all looks. If it looks really wet, or there is a lot of indigested food, I would mix in a good bit of dry cardboard or other bedding, both to sop up some of the extra moisture, and to help balance out any extra high-nitrogen food that might be there, helping to bring the bin back into balance. Many people don't add enough high-carbon bedding to the bin, or neglect to continue adding it when they feed, which can quickly bring the bin out of balance.

Going forward, you may want to add some dry bedding (like cardboard) every time you feed. Blended food is great for many reasons, but it's important to understand that releases a lot of liquid all at once, which can make your bin soggy. A nice pad of dry bedding, directly under the blended food, addresses this problem nicely.

It's also important to give your bin time to "mature". It actually becomes a complex ecosystem; with lots of little microorganisms helping the worms do their job. You want to be very careful not to overfeed, and provide plenty of bedding during this early stage. As those microorganisms proliferate,  you can gradually start adding more food. It should start breaking down faster than when the bin was just starting out and was more sterile.

Here is an awesome blog for further reading. This particular post addresses mold in the bin and what it can mean. https://www.redwormcomposting.com/general-questions/lots-of-mold-in-my-worm-bin/

Most LGD breeds are adapted to guard a very large area. We have 3 1/2 acres, and ended up with an Akbash and a Great Pyrenees. We didn't choose those breeds; we just kinda ended up with them. The urge to roam and patrol a large territory is VERY strong with these breeds. We fenced the entire property, and while they do not go over or under the fence (many LGDs do, just not ours) they do run out the gate every chance they get and patrol the neighborhood for hours. They are extremely difficult to contain on smaller acreage, is what I am saying.

If your neighbors are not going to mind your dog patrolling their property as well, then these breeds are great.

If your neighbors don't want your dog on their land, you will have to put up really good fencing to contain them. And if you are putting up fencing, then for that size acreage, basically any large-breed dog will probably do the job of keeping coyotes away.

I also lock up all my delicate animals (goats and chickens) in coyote-proof pens at night, so I don't have to worry. We do have lots of coyotes in our neighborhood. I have heard of coyotes and other predators slipping past LGDs, and I don't want to take the risk.

Our Akbash and Great Pyrenees are mellow, loving, and wonderful dogs. But they are also independent thinkers, and are very hard to train in the traditional sense. If you are used to the automatic obedience and eager-to-please attitudes of dogs like labs, you'll be in for a sad surprise. Be sure to research this temperament really thoroughly before making the plunge; I really can not overemphasize this.  They can be a HUGE pain if your situation and expectations don't match up to their natural tendencies.

You are very welcome Permies is the only forum I actually participate in. People here are just so consistently kind and helpful, wanting to learn and and share what they have learned.

If you like diving deep and learning everything you can about a subject, your might enjoy this blog https://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/10-years-of-vermicomposting-trenches-beyond/ . This guy is just so excited about vermicomposting, and has trialed many different ways of raising them. While I wouldn't want to some of the things he did, I did read his entire blog, and I learned so much.

Like See and Mk mentioned, probably either maggots of some kind, or Enchytraeus buchholzi (usually called pot worms by vermicomposters in the US). Both are helping with the composting, and do no real harm, though of course maggots will hatch into flies of different kinds, which of course can be a nuisance in an indoor system.

Pot worms are mentioned on page 5 of this document: https://dpw.lacounty.gov/epd/sg/tech_sheets/wc_info.pdf . Apparently they thrive under more acidic conditions. So you may want to check out the pH of your bin. Pot worms themselves are not a problem, but they *could* indicate that your bin is becoming overly acidic, which wouldn't be good for your composting worms in the long run. Many people add ground eggshells or oyster shells to make their bins more alkaline. A Google search of "pot worms in vermicompost bin" will give you a whole lot of info on these little critters and what they may indicate.

If you have maggots, you will probably notice fruit flies or flies around your bin soon. Burying the waste under the bedding and/ or adding a screen can help with this. Another helpful thing can be blending your food waste, or freezing it before giving it to the worms. If it is broken up more, it allows to the worms to start working on it faster, which means less time lying around creating habitat for maggots. Large pieces of fruit, especially,  take forever to be accessible to worms, and provide perfect maggot habitat in the meantime.

One thing that I overlooked when I first started my bins, was the importance of balancing the food scraps with plenty of bedding material. I used lots of bedding material when I first started up the bins, but in order to keep the carbon-to-nitrogen ratio high, it's important to keep adding bedding with almost every feeding. Or once in a while add a very large dose of bedding. Thankfully I watched a video on this before it became a problem. But it might be the most important thing you can do to keep your bin balanced and safe for the worms. I use chopped cardboard, and also partially composted leaves/ forest litter from the woodsy area at the back of my property. The worms seem to really love the forest litter, and I think it will make really high-quality castings. When I collect bags of fall leaves (leaf season is right around the corner here in Texas), I am going to add a nice layer of them to the areas in my woods where I removed litter, to hopefully not upset that little ecosystem as much.

So, of course, after posting this, this excellent thread appeared in the sidebar, answering many of my questions https://permies.com/t/45126/Coffee-Grounds. And this one https://permies.com/t/84305/composting/coffee-grounds

I recently picked up about 10 gallons of used coffee grounds on a trip into the nearest city (from 3 different Starbucks that I happened to be passing). I go into the city at least once a month, and could probably hit a few more Starbucks with some planning. I'm seeing a lot of conflicting info online, about how to use them and possibly drawbacks, however.

I know I have read on here that they are usually pH-neutral, since most of the acidity gets leached by the hot water into the actual coffee. I have also read that even if they are acidic, they become pH-neutral after composting.

I have also read on here that most, if not all, the potential pesticides would have been removed with the hull of the actual coffee bean, and little to none would be present in the actual coffee, much less the grounds. Sites online, however, do say that the coffee that you drink can contain pesticides. But I'm guessing even if so, then a lot less would be left behind in the grounds. And even less (if any) after composting.

I'm thinking I will use these mainly as a source of "greens" to compost with the autumn leaves I plan to start collecting any day now (here in Texas, the autumn leaf season is only just about to start, along with the yearly madness of raking them up into plastic trash bags for the garbage trucks to bring to the landfill).

I also lightly sprinkled some on top of my garden beds, where I recently planted small brassica seedlings (kale, broccoli, cabbage, etc) to grow through the winter. I didn't sprinkle them near the seedlings, more in-between them, for the roots to "grow into" as the plant grows. I only did a light sprinkling, because I've never used grounds before. Then I mulched over them with leaf mold from our bushy-foresty areas on our land.

I also plan use small amounts in my worm bins, along with other food, and balanced with plenty of carbon bedding materials.

I guess I'd really just like to learn more about how to, and how not to use these, since, for whatever reason, I've never collected them before.

The lack of truck definitely makes things harder. I don't have a lot of "normal" things, but I do love my little pick-up truck!

If there is a mushroom farm or other source of free compost nearby, there may be someone with a dump-truck making their living by delivering the goods to gardeners and farmers. It may be less expensive than you think. It would depend on distance.

Since your intensive beds are working well for you, you might just consider extending those out gradually, resources permitting. If your clay won't grow grass well, it probably won't grow cover crops well enough to help. But if you can improve it enough to grow cover crops, that would gradually help it get ready eventually to grow veggies. But yeah, it'll either take time or money.

On a positive note, at least you have soil! I used to live on the Big Island of Hawaii. The part I lived in had literally an inch at best of "soil" (actually mainly broken down plant matter) on top of asphalt-like lava. So there was no "improving" the soil; there was just building up on top of it, mainly with soil and compost purchased elsewhere, if you wanted to have enough to plant much food. So I'm now very grateful for both my sand and my clay here in Texas.

Dan Fish wrote:Hey Lila, thanks for the encouragement. Also, I bet the clay will make better garden soil once you get it "adjusted". Lots of minerals and water capacity after you do a few million hours of heavy labor hahaha.

That's a very good point. I'm locating my new compost heaps right on top of some clay this fall, because it is convenient to my goat and chicken pens, so it will be fun to see how and when the actual soil beneath starts improving. If the soil gets nice eventually, I could use it as a planting area.

Cy Cobb wrote:Congrats on your huge score! I thought I was pretty lucky coming across a half dozen at the yard waste dump.  I'm happy with my freebies, and am cooking them now.

Thank you! A half dozen free pumpkins is nothing to sneeze at Check out online classifieds, though; you may still be able to score some from pumpkin patches. Grocery stores also put them on sale super duper cheap, just to get rid of them. I'm now thinking I should go back to the pumpkin patch and get another load if they haven't cleared them out. I have enough for us, but I could get some more just for composting. I'll bet my kids would enjoy breaking them apart with hammers. Maybe I would too, haha.

Dan Fish wrote:Hey that is a really important point. I didn't include it originally but I douse my clay with compost tea every year just to be sure I got what I need in there. Maybe that's why I can grow veggies in soil that I can't "stick my arm up to my elbow in". I am up to a finger now though which is better than when it was close to pickaxe-proof.

I'd say that is amazing progress. I have some areas of my land that are hard, hard clay. Getting it to where I could poke a finger in would be amazing. Luckily I have sandy portions too, and those are what I am currently improving and gardening in. Now I want to see what I can do for the clay parts, just for fun.  

Toko Aakster wrote:TIMEFRAME is important.
In permaculture, we usually look at our soil amending plan on the scale of years, not just a couple seasons.

Like Lila said: Fast usually isn't Cheap. Additionally 'Cheap' doesn't mean 'Low Effort'  - Doing something in a short amount of time isn't quite the same as doing it 'easily.'

You mentioned leaves & rotting logs. Both of those are high-carbon and decompose slowly. They help soil structure and water retention and make healthier soil in the long run and ARE important, but if you ONLY put carbon in an area, and not corresponding nitrogen to help break it down quickly, it'll be sooooo sloooowwwwww to decompose.
They need other good rottable stuff to go fast. Stuff that turns sludgy and nasty smelling when it rots. That's the green stuff you gotta mix with your browns, so your soil can feast as fast as it can.

It's about feeding the life in your soil - not feeding your plants. You feed the soil, the soil feeds your plants.

The soil life is what eats rocks and slurps up organic stuff and poops out nutritious plant food.
Feed the worms, the fungus, the beetles and protozoa. Feed the bacteria!
Your friends in the soil enjoy manure. They LOVE decay and fermentation. They feast on things like rotting meat and plants.

Make them a cozy home for them with a big pile of woodchips -  it's insulated from the cold and scorching heat, and holds the moisture in after it rains, so they don't shrivel up.

Cultivate your soil ecosystem - spoil them with rottable goods like you'd spoil your pets with treats!
Get a big barrel, fill it with water, and let green weeds FERMENT for weeks, then treat your soil to some tasty sips!
Rotting meat and spoiled leftovers? Bury it.
Found a dead animal? Bury it.
Stale dogfood? Bury it.
Rain-spoiled hay from a local farmer, coffee grounds from a local cafe

Your neighbors left out leaves and lawn trimmings? Swipe them, chop 'em up, and bury them. Or just pile them in a big heap where you want to garden. Turn the whole garden into your compost pile for a year.

Become someone who LOVES seeing rot and fungus and decay, because that means you found something you can feed to your yard!

Congrats you've adopted several trillion individual life forms. They're your pets now, and they have a nifty side-effect of making plants grow real good.

Feed your babies.

Well said Get excited about all of this, and your soil will get better and better over time.

Also, depending what your goals and resources are, you might want to just focus on improving one smallish area at a time. Doing a small area well and getting a yield will be much more satisfying and productive than spreading your resources too thinly over a large area, and not seeing good results.

I don't know what area you are in, but here in Texas, autumn leaf season is about to start. Farther north I'm sure it's already begun. Tons of free organic matter, neatly bagged up on every curb, free for the taking. It won't fix the problem immediately, but it will definitely help.

It seems to me with soil improvement, "fast" usually isn't cheap, and "cheap" isn't usually fast. Obviously, raised beds full of compost will allow you to plant  right away, while improving the soil underneath, but that won't be cheap. Lasagna or back to Eden type methods can be free or very cheap, but not super fast. But if you are in the Northern Hemisphere, and just heading into winter, you still might be able to get a good jump on a lasagna garden that would be ready to plant into in the spring, with minimal purchased inputs. It all just depends what is available for free where you are. I can get pretty much unlimited free pumpkins right now from local pumpkin patches.. I got a few truckloads for ourselves and our animals, but now am wondering if I should go get some more for composting, to go along with all the fall leaves I'll be collecting.  

One cool thing I read about recently, that I'm excited to try, is vermicomposting trenches. Basically dig a trench, layer in worm bedding and compostables, add some worms, layer on insulating straw, etc, on top, and let it sit. When it's all composted down, you can plant either directly in, or next to the trench. This the blog I read about it on; he explains it better than I. https://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/

And this is a truly awesomely inspiring thread by Bryant Redhawk on how he used straw bale gardening on top of clay to not only be getting crops the first year, but also improving the clay soil underneath while he did it. https://permies.com/t/108953/improve-clay-soils-growing-year.  Whether this is practical for you will depend if you can get herbicide-free straw cheaply where you are. Or there may be a variation that works for you where you are; great stuff to read no matter what; gets those mental wheels turning

I ended up stopping at a closed-down "pumpkin patch" while I was in Austin anyway  a few days after Halloween. They were giving them all away for free; not just huge jack-o-lantern pumpkins, but also tons of Blue Hubbards, Long Island Cheese, Jarrahdales, Ghost Pumpkins, and some huge orange flattish ones. I was picking people up at the airport, so I only filled my truck bed halfway. I went back the next day for another full load. I made sure to get all of the Long Island Cheese-type ones that were in good condition; they are such a nice, sweet, thick-fleshed pumpkin, really nice to work with.

I've been chopping up the less-yummy ones for my goats and chickens, and putting small amounts in my worm bins as well. I chopped and roasted a Long Island Cheese one yesterday and made about 5 quart jars of pumpkin puree. I don't can, so we will use it up quickly with pumpkin bread and soup. Maybe mix some into the dogs' food too if we aren't getting through it quick enough. I pureed some of the cooked skins for my worm bins, and the rest went to the chickens. I'll bet the dogs would have enjoyed them too. Maybe next time.

We have a beautiful assortment of pumpkins now lining every empty wall in our living room. If too many start going bad, I may start a trench-type composting pit for them and other materials, and add some of the worms from my worm bin. They definitely won't be wasted.

The 1 1/2 truckloads I took didn't really make a dent in the amount of pumpkins that were there. Though I admit I did take the majority of the most tasty varieties. The only other person I saw there was only loading up jack-o-lantern types, though, so I doubt many people would even care.  

I've seen a few ads already where pumpkin patches are giving all their pumpkins away for free; usually the big Jack-O-Lantern types. Unfortunately they are all about an hour away from me, but still might be worth a special trip, if I stack them high in the back of my truck. I think it would amount to $30 in gas and 2 1/2 hours of my time for a pick-up-truck load of pumpkins for my animals for winter.

These are, of course, city pumpkin patches, where a church or something bought a bunch of pumpkins to lay out and make a fake pumpkin patch. The owners of real pumpkin patches out in the country will usually use their leftover pumpkins to either feed their own animals, or give them back to the soil.

Pearl Sutton wrote:Good Point Lila!
I was forgetting to bump for that, but yes, they day after Halloween they go down in price. I will go check them!!
I checked a bin at the hardware store, today but it was only Jack o Lantern pumpkins. I want better tasting than those.
My neighbor's decor includes a Blue Hubbard and a big Green Striped Cushaw that she said I can have when she's tired of them :D  The neighbors rarely understand me, but they are at least fairly used to me.  "Oooh! There's a Blue Hubbard under your plum tree!!"  

:D

Well, at least hopefully your "strange" behavior might make them think about things they wouldn't normally. I'm never embarrassed to be seen doing weird stuff like picking up bags of fall leaves from the curb, because I figure at least it might make people think about why I would want this "garbage" and maybe eventually come to the conclusion that it's not garbage at all.

The nice thing is last year I occasionally saw ads where people were trying to rehome their fall decoration pumpkins for free to someone who could use them. I managed to be in the right place at the right time to claim some of them, and ended up with some perfectly nice butternut squash and some Long Island Cheese-type ones. I can't understand at all this idea of using food for decoration and not eating it.

I'm not a big fan of the regular orange pumpkins for eating either, but my goats sure are! I would rather have them eat organic, homegrown pumpkins, but with the drought this summer we didn't get that many, so I'm going to try not to be picky.

A lot of stores will probably be marking those "decorative" pumpkins tomorrow (the day after Halloween) to make way for Christmas stuff. I plan to hit a few stores when I am in the city in a few days and take some home for ourselves and critters, if they are marked down enough.

I'm bumping this thread, thinking others might want to take advantage of the mark-downs that usually happen soon.

I've seen what look like either Musquee de Provence Or Long Island Cheese in the big grocery stores in the nearest city, as well as those bumpy-skin ones. I'm glad I re-read this thread, because I would no way have bought those bumpies otherwise. They look so ugly to me.  Also, of course, I know they will have tons of "jack-o-lantern" types that will be just fine for feeding to our goats and chickens, and if they are super marked down can provide a whole lot of long-storing winter food for them.  Our local Walmart also has some white ones my kids have been drooling over (they like playing with pumpkins) but I had no idea they might be good to eat. I'll grab some if they mark them down.

I blended up some leftover cooked pumpkin skins last week, and added them to my worm bins, and man, did they go crazy for those! I don't usually blend food for the worms, but seeing how quickly they can process blended foods, I may start doing it more often.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:Thanks for the grow report. Brad is not frost tolerant, but it grows well in cool temperatures.

If you've got the fabric, you might as well use it.

That's good to know. I wouldn't expect frost-tolerance, but I was thinking with your shorter season they might have some cold tolerance built in.

I got them started a bit late, but I should still get a good crop. They seem to be fruiting  on around the same schedule as the various cherry tomatoes I planted around the same time. They are such beautiful plants!  I just saw the first fruit starting to turn orangish this afternoon. I can't remember when I started the seeds, probably early August, and I think I planted them out in the beginning of September. Texas is different that way; most people let the majority of their spring garden die in the brutal mid-summer heat and then plant everything fresh again for their late summer/ fall garden.

Since I do have the row covers I'm kinda curious how long I can keep these plants going.

Anne Miller wrote:Lila, welcome to Texas.  I was in Central Texas until I moved to the Hill Country.  Though I have pretty much lived in Texas since a teenager.

The weather is very unpredictable in most parts of Texas.

When we first moved to Texas, girls were wearing shorts at the local 7/11 convenience store in January and I was wearing a sweater.

Follow the advice of the others though you might be able to keep those tomato plants growing all year long.  I have had tomatoes in December by pulling them before a freeze and ripening them in a paper sack on my kitchen counter.

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Yes, it is definitely different here! In a way I love it, because just when you start getting tired of the cold in winter you'll get a warm day or week, but the temperature changes are also really hard on plants. I want to grow cool-weather crops like kale, collards, etc all winter long. This past winter, we had one occasion where temps were in the 70s and then abruptly dropped to a hard freeze, accompanied by strong winds. My poor little kale plants froze solid, which probably would have been fine, except that the wind whipped them around and pulverized them while still frozen. They were young and didn't have woody stems yet (started late that year) so I am wondering if more mature plants would have made it through that ok. But I decided to buy some row covers for occasions like that, just in case.

Joseph, I'm so glad you responded. About 1/3 of the tomato plants in question are your "Brad" tomatoes that I got from the experimental seed network website. I started the seed a few months ago for my fall garden and they have just done awesome from day one. Deeper green and more vigorous than the other varieties I planted around the same time; just a joy to watch grow. They have lots of green fruits and are flowering like crazy. I'm very much looking forward to the first ripe fruits. Any insight on the cold tolerance of this particular variety?

I very much prefer to let nature take its course as well. Row covers never appealed to me until I moved here and saw how erratic the weather can be. There are some really swift temperature changes sometimes; New Years' Eve last year was 80 degrees and my kids were playing outside in shorts. That night, it dropped 50 degrees and the next day they were in their thick winter coats. That's hard on plants, so I did buy some row covers as a cushion to use in emergencies. And now that I have them, I'm thinking maybe I can use them to squeeze out some more tomatoes out of this year, since the summer was so bleak and unproductive.

I moved to central Texas a while back, from Hawaii, so gardening in a place with seasons is new to me. Also, the weather here is notoriously erratic, perhaps the last few years more than ever. We had a brutal, hot, dry summer, with very little spring weather (went from cold to hot really fast), and we didn't get much produce at all from the garden. Not compared to what I planted, anyway.

The temperatures have been more mild for the last 6 weeks or so, and my tomatoes are finally happy. Some fruit ripening, lots and lots of green fruit, and flowers galore. However, we have a low nighttime temp of 39 forecast for Tuesday night, 44 for Wednesday, and then back up to mid-50s to mid-60s for the next few weeks, with daytime temps in the high 70s to high 80s. So basically a cold-snap followed by pretty perfect gardening weather. This seems normal for here for the next month or two. Even once we get a frost, we can get weeks more of warm temperatures. First average frost in my area is a month away, but it can come any time, or even, some years, not arrive until early January.

I'd like to keep my tomatoes going as long as I can, since we didn't get many in the spring or summer, and they are doing so great now. I do have some .55 oz row cover I can put on them, which I would take off during the day so they don't cook. At what temperature should I cover them? Just when it frosts? Or when the temps dip into the 40s, in order to try and keep them setting fruit? What is a good strategy? The coldest time of the night here is actually 7am, just when the sun is rising, so I think if I put the cover an hour or two before sunset, I'd have the best chance of holding in the heat of the day without cooking them.

I do have some smaller patches that I don't plan to cover, and I'm sure I'll learn a lot by comparing the two groups, but wondering what more experienced people have to say too.

If your compost doesn't have recognizable chunks, then the worms probably did their job of composting it, and then moved on to find more food. They don't want to eat their own castings, so they can't live in pure castings. If you add more food scraps and carbon material though, they may return. If possible, I would build a new compost pile right next to the old one, so any hidden worms will have an easy time finding the new food source.

If it has started to get cold up where you are, they may have burrowed down into the soil under your compost pile to stay warm. The only likely way they would have died is if birds or some other predator had discovered them, but in that case you would have found your compost scattered all over from some predator digging/ scratching it up to get to the worms.

Congratulations on the lovely compost!

This is a very inspiring thread about using straw bale gardening to grow on top of clay soils, and how those straw bale gardens improved the soil underneath them as well https://permies.com/t/108953/improve-clay-soils-growing-year. Another great option would be lasagna gardening. Both of these options would provide food and habitat for all that soil life on top of your existing soil, while letting your grow food or cover crops there, and then bit, by bit would improve the soil underneath too.

Those veggie scraps sure help, especially if you can find some source of browns to layer with them to make lasagna beds. I don't know what it is like in your area, but here we would use autumn leaves, wood chips, hay, or straw for the browns. Every little bit helps. I think the more organic matter you can add on top of the soil, the better things will get. I would try focusing on one area at a time; lay down thick layers in one particular area to provide good, rich habitat for microbes, worms, etc, and expand from there. Rather than spreading what you have thinly over your whole area. You might even want to consider purchasing some worms to add to kick-start these beds. If the original soil is really barren then worms may not find your beds for quite some time.

So, Ralph, it's been 2 years since your original post in this thread. How are your worms doing? Do you have a better idea now if results justify the time and expense? Are you still using the same strategies you posted about before, or have you made any changes as time went by?

I just started my first worm bin a month ago in a 14 gallon rubbermaid tub and 250 worms, and, after getting really excited about what the worm castings could do for my garden, I ordered another 1,000 worms and started 3 more bins with them. I know I could have just waited for the original worms to multiply, but gardening is almost year-round here in central Texas, so I want as much product as I can get, as soon as I can. I don't really expect them to be very expensive or time-consuming to maintain, after the initial investment of the worms themselves, the tubs, and some coco coir to get started. I hope to use mostly free material for bedding in the future, and their food (mainly goat manure) comes for free from my goats.

I know harvesting the castings can be time-consuming, but it seems it can be made a whole lot less time-consuming if you are just harvesting them for your own garden and don't care if the occasional worm or un-composted bit of material gets in there. I've read of a lot of strategies to get out the bulk of the worms; my favorite, and one I want to try, is to just put a half a ripe banana into the worm bin, with the skin on. Pick it up in a few days, and the worms will have hollowed out a good chunk the banana fruit and be filling the skin. Put that in your new worm bin and put in another half a banana to the old bin for a few days to catch any stragglers. This doesn't, of course, catch the cocoons, but if I wanted to keep those to increase the population, I could of course wait a few weeks for the babies to hatch out, and then repeat the banana trick a few times. Or just add the worm castings to the garden with any cocoons and remaining stragglers.  

Yes, I did start some this spring. They were not nearly as hard to germinate as I expected them to be, and the little plants grew well. Unfortunately, we had a brutally hot, dry summer here in Texas and I couldn't keep everything alive. My tagasaste seedlings were some of the casualties, through no fault of their own. I have plenty more seeds though, and will start some more this spring.

To scarify them, I first clipped them as shown in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzoVFAAJChk&t=99s and then soaked them overnight in hot water. Not boiling water, just hot water from the tap, which of course cooled overnight. Then I planted them in potting soil mixed with sandy soil from our yard. I did not count how many I planted versus how many sprouted, but I did get the impression that germination was pretty high this way.

I can understand your concerns and have a few thoughts. First, even if your mulch options are slightly contaminated, the vegetables you grow are still going to be way less contaminated than anything you will buy at the store, including possibly "certified organic". So don't let trying to make things perfect get in the way of having a garden. Things don't have to be perfect right off the bat, but just work towards getting them to where you want them. I don't personally worry too much about using commercially produced compost as a stop-gap while I am trying to get better systems in place.

If you buy hay directly from the growers, rather than a feed store, you can certainly ask what sprays they used. Some are not as bad as others, as far as persisting in the composted product and killing your plants. Just explain you want to use it for gardening and they should understand and be happy to tell you what they used. You can also find organic alfalfa pellets to supplement your goats' diet if you like.

I'm a few hours south-east of you, between Austin and College Station. Now right, there is a hay shortage due to the drought all summer, so we have to take what we can get as far as hay. But usually you can actually get organic hay straight from the grower. You just have to watch craigslist or other online classifieds, maybe even make your own ad saying what you are looking for, and jump on opportunities if they come. I get mine from an organic pecan farm; it's the grass and weeds they mow from under the trees and is fertilized with chicken manure. That is in Elgin; quite far for you, but you could rent a trailer or a U-Haul, or even pay someone to deliver a bunch of round bales. You would have feed for your goats and compost materials for years that way. My particular grower won't have hay this year due to the drought, and hopefully you could find something closer to you, but just as an idea for a way to get a large amount of chemical-free organic matter. My understanding is that horse-quality hay has to be sprayed because there are certain weeds that can hurt horses, but the organic hay would be great for your goats and your garden.

Cover crops are of course a great option. I grew sunn hemp this summer; it can be used as goat feed and as green manure/ mulch. You cut it and it comes right back, over and over again until it gets cold. Also great for providing shade for other plants in the summer heat. It did need to be watered through the drought, but it truly thrived in the heat; didn't mind it at all as long as I watered regularly.

I have not been to Fort Worth, but are there not deciduous trees in the suburban areas that drop their leaves in the fall? I collect a lot of these from the curbs down here in my nearest town. Yard maintenance companies in more urban areas are often looking for places to dump these leaves; if you live far out they probably won't want to drive to you, but this is another time it might be practical to rent a U-haul, make the drive, and load up a big load. Or not, depending on how far out you live and whether there's a company willing and able to stockpile them for you.

As far as other, non-mulch ways of improve your soil with what is accessible to you, have you considered a worm bin? I recently started one; those red wrigglers sure do love that goat manure! Eventually I'd like to have enough worms to be able to run all my goat manure through the worms to supercharge into castings before adding it to the garden. Most of my scraps can be eaten by either the chickens or the goats, so the worms mainly get manure.

Another note on goat manure; I've also been using it fresh in the garden by digging a deep hole wherever I plan to plant something in the garden, and mixing a quart or so of goat manure into the soil at the bottom of the hole. Fill in with soil and then plant my seedling on top of that. I figure by the time the seedling gets its roots down there, it will be mellow enough, and so far it has been working great! The okra, zucchini, and tomatoes that I planted this way look fantastic. I am now planting out greens like kale and chard using this strategy. I've strayed a bit from your question about mulch on top of the soil, but this is one way of using your goat manure right now to improve your soil, without having to let it compost.

I hope something here helps you out!

I think the only real benefit to the paper cells is for large-scale growers because they can be loaded into those automatic transplanters. I don't think they'd really have any advantages for the home gardener, and there are probably better options for you.  

What kinds of problems were you having with transplanting? I was always taught to transplant in the late afternoon/ evening, be careful not to damage the roots, and water them in well. It's always been very problem-free for me this way.

Is there a reason why small plastic pots or 6-packs wouldn't work well for you?

Another option is toilet-paper and paper-towel rolls. You can cut 2-3 little bottomless cardboard planters from each toilet paper roll, pack them in to support eachother in a tray, and fill with soil. They save a lot of space, compared to larger plastic pots. This can be important if you are starting seeds under lights or something and want to start a lot of seeds in a small amount of space.

You can also make your own paper pots out of newspaper or brown paper bags. I did it before by folding the newspaper around a can of beans as a mold, but for smaller pots you'd have to find a smaller cylinder to use as a mold, like a small piece of pipe or something. It did require a few pieces of tape for me to hold them together, but I'm sure someone handier than I could fold them in such a way that they stay put as they are.

Peat pellets also save space, but of course peat moss is ecologically problematic, and I find peat pellets a real hassle to use anyway.

I've never tried soil blocks. There is some investment there, and a learning curve with getting the soil right, and I have just never been up to the challenge so far.