Your idea can work fairly easily. Many charge controllers can also operate as a load controller. If you equip a larger solar array with a small battery when it's voltage shoots up your load controller can turn on devices to use a much larger portion of your solar. The small battery can run light loads at night. You would be using the small battery as a buffer. It's an ok solution but it will rob you of a lot of flexibility. You are right batteries are expensive but a correctly sized deep cycle battery bank should last 7 to 12 years not a few and is recyclable at end of life.
Best regards, David Baillie
Most of the interest in building your own solar electric panels from loose cells and broken pieces went away when the price of solar dropped from $5 a watt to less then $1. Same thing with solar trackers or the various solar concentrator devices that were out there. Lots of links out there still.
Make that two votes for the Radian system. The schneider and radian are very similar in terms of what they will do. Two ac inputs, the ability to sell back the ability to use the grid to supplement. Outback has built their rep on solid products and great tech support I would choose their gear for those reasons. Another biased voice I suppose.
David Baillie wrote:Well to do it legally and once I would use 4/00 cable for a 2000 inverter they are more expensive of course. A fuse block to match or better yet a disconnect breaker box. I build code compliant systems though so I have no choice. 2/00 cable and a 175 amp fuse should be OK
Not getting any easier is it?
Best regards, David Baillie
The seperation between appliances used in and around the home /// and systems mounted to a building and connected to the building electrical has to be determined before getting all legal. There is a difference and most small projects can not stand the bugetary consideration as if they are a part of the building electrical, this is possibly a case in point.
I won't disagree with you. I'm always hesitant to recomend consumer grade gear though when I know if and when someone wants to build on it they will have to start all over. Rereading the thread you've probably judged the end goal better.
Best regards, David
No, it isn't. And people do this voluntarily, all day, for a living? :O
The $316 breaker box puts me over my budget, but I can certainly do those cables and a fuse.
So when I finally have all the pieces parts, I just string it all together with the cables, positive to positive and negative to negative? Or could it not possibly be that simple?
Yes it's mostly that simple. Lot of good wiring diagrams online. And yes everyday for a living... Some evenings I wish I was still swinging a hammer. Then I wake up and remember that it's really cool stuff. In round two of your project please upgrade to the breaker box. It's a good solid design pretty cheap and you can breaker your charge controller and any dc loads you put in from it. When you order the inline fuse get 2 (life lesson there) Everything listed above you can recycle into the next stage if you push on.
Best regards, David
Looks good and the brat is a great pwm controller. Please invest is some well gauged cables 4/00 250 amp cables and either fuses or breakers to match for the battery interconnects and the inverter cables.
My bad on the inverter good for you for not buying junk. A golf cart battery will be 6 volts at 200 amps approx. A 12 volt will be 100 amps. Same weight of battery same total power capacity. Crack open that case and the 6 volt will have 3 2 volt cells in it the 12 volt battery will have 6 but half the size. Your 2 6 volts will give you 12 volts and 200 amp hours . Clear as mud? From those 2 batteries you will have a useable 1.2 kw of power since you want to use only half of your capacity to keep the batteries happy. You could use as much as 1.68kw every now and then but you shorten their life span. That works out to 50% and 70% discharge. An easier way is try to keep the voltage above 12 as you use them. Run something heavy for a minute the voltage will sink to 11.9 or 11.8 no problem but on a small load keep that voltage in the twelves. I'm sure you've got this so go out and burn some amps!
12 volt systems are based on the voltage of lead acid cells (2 volts) that make them up. At one time 6 volts was the chosen voltage. They kept upping it to match our ever increasing hunger for more. Most dc voltages are multiples of 2 and 3. Voltages increased so wire size could remain small enough to be affordable. You reach a point though where high dc voltage gets scary. The solution was ac which transported easily and did not arc. No evil, just the solution to a problem of the day. Electricity is a series of tradeoffs and conventions developed over time. The only weakness of your low voltage household would be the size of wiring required to carry a larger amount of power. For a small localized system with limited amount of leds it could work. There are already a lot of rechargeable lanterns on the market that use the USB plugs and connectors for recharging and powering devices. I believe they are in the 5 volt range. Up to about 3 amps... not a bad amount of light... As to resistors they are not put in the circuit by evil corporations they are there to regulate current through the diodes so they don't self destruct. Heat is the tradeoff to drive the led. Simple dc led arrays use resistors and fixed dc voltage. Large complex leds use voltage adjusting drivers. Lifespan is a function of resistor sizing. Cheap leds oversize the resistor to overdrive the led shortening life but producing more light for less time. So buy good ones. I have led bulbs in daily use for over 8 years. I can now buy the same bulb for 1/10th the price.
David
If you read that article it goes over the likely architecture. From an installer point of view it would be a lot of extra labour. Tesla is equating it to the cost and labour of intalling a traditional tile roof. They have a flat shingle version as well. What worries me is repair and replacement. Currently I can loosen 4 nuts and lift 250 watts worth of array diagnose and change an optimizer or micro inverter and reinstall in very little time. They will have to create electrical runs under the assemblies or penetrate the roof much more often. The NEC is going to love that! I'm really not a naysayer I just have to approach from the point of view of someone who will have to work with it. As such I've had to invest more time then most thinking about it.
Best regards, David
As to pricing: on most gear our pricing is right in line with the states once you factor in hst, exchange rate and extra shipping to a small market. I know because I'm in Ontario and we quote the stuff out all the time. If I was building a building in our climate today I would put on an industrial steel roof and use the standard racking system developed for it. The panels and roof would wear at the same rate and last 40 years. Available right now with a 30 year proven track record installed for less then $3 a watt. The Tesla tiles are aimed at that southern California Spanish tIle roof mandated by many town councils. Maybe more user friendly models will emerge but for now... No
Best regards, David
I would say you have assembled a good list of advice.
At 200 watts of solar please bite the bullet and get 2 6 volt golf cart batteries. A single 12 volt will have to be a marine deep cycle which is nowhere near as robust as a true deep cycle. If that is all that's available get 2 still. For charge controllers if the panels are within 20 ft of the battery the simple chargers (pwm types) recommended will do fine. More expensive types (mppt )really shine when it's not a perfectly sunny day or the panels get further away. I would stick to the inverter for charging laptops and such. Do be careful as you are running a modified sine wave inverter and they don't play nice with some chargers (mostly powertools). For laptops, cell phones, lights, flatscreens you are fine. If you incorporate the system into your daily life it will help offset the cost. It's a fun hobby and does not have to be crazy expensive.
Best regards, David
That's the fairest review I've read about them based on the best case scenarios. There is a near complete lack of hard numbers as yet including durability or true cost so the article has to make a lot of guesses. From someone who has spent 20 years building and now works in solar they look like a nightmare of overcomplexity, cost, and failure points. Now imagine a roof penetration every tile assembly on a roof that gets covered in the snow and ice of a canadian winter. Currently a conventional panel is going for $1 a watt canadian. Installed on a roof for $3 a watt. Never been cheaper and at this point you are paying for the glass and the shipping...
Best regards David
What is the model number. Post it so we can google the specs. Personally if you want manual control I prefer the side by side japanese ones with the separate centrifuge wringer. You have the machine so that's not an option.
Best regards, David Baillie
It depends on the price... I have Bens gasification books and they are amazing. Solar information is out there and much more common and a lot of it is really good. The components are also much more reliable then even a decade ago and much more user friendly. Do you need it? That is the question.
Hi Gary, this is an older thread so if it's too late so be it. I like to take one of these from time to time and problem solve of I can. First off good job knowing your numbers most don't. If I was thinking of spending so much I would invest some money in meters first to do a more detailed load analysis. Right now you have some idea but not a very good one where all that juice is going. I have suspicions but no data. Invest in 2 kill a watt meters from amazon plug them in to your heaviest loads and leave them for a week. I would start in three places based on past experience and in order of importance.
1) trough heaters. As a given they bleed heat like crazy but you need to keep water going. Going forward insulating the sides and bottoms will save a lot next step your waste oils I would use to run a modified oil hot water heater and circulate heated water to the troughs. Every gallon of oil has the energy of 40 kw of electricity.
2) any buried water line with a heat cable in it. If it's more then 10 years old it might not have a thermostat in it or be insulated. They can bleed of 5 kw a day easy. Again use a kill a watt and remember to unplug after winter.
3) old chest freezers. I replaced a chest freezer for a client and cut 3 kw a day off usage. The older compressors were horrible. Kill a watt again and evaluate. I prefer 2 medium freezers to one large because you can unplug one in less busy times of year.
Generally anything that heats up electrically will kill you on solar. Most appliances less then 10 years old are ok. Move bulk food processing off the electrics. I don't like the tank less heaters myself because they work great for long bouts of hot water and horribly for small intermittent use.
Hope some of this help.
Best regards, David Baillie
The above video states an efficiency of 17 percent not 46. That would be in line with the best pressurised stirlings I've read about and in line with solar cells. More maintenance and moving parts so probably why there does not seem to be much interest. They were popular in their day as a safe alternative to steam but the more common non pressurized ones have an efficiency in the single digits. Some high end cryogenic coolers use them as well. If you need the waste heat for something great if not there are more efficient solutions.
Best regards, David Baillie
Bees wax versus tallow. Candle versus oil lamps. Whale oil versus petroleum oil. Oil versus gas. Gas versus arc lights. Arc versus incandescent. Incandescent versus halogen versus xenon versus fluorescent. And now led. The wheel goes on and on. I bought my first cfl 20 years ago. I retired the last of the oldest ones 2 years ago. I'm awaiting the death of the rest so I can justify replacing them with the new leds. Some cfl were horrible but those from well known manufacturers performed well the crummy ones performed badly. My first forray into leds involved wiring diodes with a resistor for 12 volt units. Those early ones with the first flawed manufacturing processes really were horrible. Too blue with bad quality control and cheap components. Fast forward a decade and off the shelf units from national retailers are cheap and longlived. As to the light quality Nothing holds a candle to daylight if you will pardon the play on words. As to complexity I would say leds allow you to lessen the complexity of your power generation so it should count as a plus for them. One of the main sources of complexity and failure is the driver which has to regulate voltage and also fit in the tight package of the traditional Edison bulb design. Think of the screw in leds as a stopgap measure at best. More and more the new units are enclosed with a separate driver to control one or a string of fixtures. These new gen ones are modular, replaceable and extremely longlived. Also since they generate very little heat their enclosures are much less complex. No metal junction box and elaborate heat dissipating solutions incandescent lights require. Available in many spectrums based on taste and task. Stick to well known manufacturers do your research and you will love them.
Led lover David Baillie
This is an ancient thread but in case anyone scans it looking for answers here goes. The massive chimney matched to a modern stove would be where I would focus my attention. There is no mention if the chimney is lined but if not it should be. A chimney must be able to carry hot air all the way up to the top to create a good draft. That stove is fairly modern so is using most of its heat to heat the room. That chimney unlined would suck up massive amount of heat from the exhaust. It would take hours if possible at all to establish good draft conditions in it. It should be lined with stainless or a draft inducer installed. I would vote for a liner.
Best regards, David Baillie
I would agree with trying the auto glass repair kit. The kit should include a suction cup with a syringe and an epoxy mix. You apply the suction cup and use the syringe to apply a vacuum to the glass this pulls out any dust or glass debris. Next you inject the epoxy. Worth a try. To much diy for you remove the panel and bring it to an auto glass place probably a small local one not a big chain. The small guy will be more willing to experiment. Failing that you contact your installer to have a matching panel installed. Question for you :do you have one central inverter or micro inverters on each panel?
Best regards, David Baillie
Peter please do not ever apologise for only needing 20 degrees of gain. Your summers would leave me panting in my basement. So in your case I would probably recommend sizing down the unit to one with a smaller firebox. The reason being burning a stove at its mid range will always give you its best efficiency. If you have a well insulated house your surfaces will act the same as the mass contained in the rmh. For us that means a 15 cm slab in the basement with pex tubing in it cement board and ceramics on the main floor and double drywall on all inside walls. Approx 12 tonnes of mass with no loss of floorspace. When people blatantly tell you how bad wood stoves are you have to stop them and evaluate their experience.
Now here is a question for you:
http://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/woodsmoke/heatercomplies.htm This link tell me that you have the same regs as us in terms of stoves. Can you even get a RMH to pass? Feel free to ignore the question if that is too sticky.
As to "real" well results matter more to me then adherence to orthodoxy. All technologies have tradeoffs even RMH. Woodstoves tradeoff would be slightly higher consumption weighed against your labour to tend the stove being much lower and air temp being more uniform. All opinion of course with some real world experience thrown in there.
Best regards, David Baillie
So going against orthodoxy for the site here is a link to some stove efficiency numbers the Pacific energy ones are on it. https://chimneysweeponline.com/wscompe.htm One pound of dry wood will contain 7000 btu of energy as an absolute maximum regardless of stove. Wood stoves are rated and should if burning air dried wood at 20 percent moisture deliver their rated efficiencies. Heat close to the ground will make your house seem warmer up to a point. My only problem with inside rmh is they are not rated or approved. Where I live( canada) that is an issue because no rating means no insurance no insurance means no mortgage. We heat our house with a pacific energy Vista in a very cold climate so you need both convection and radiant heat. Our heat load for 1300 Sq ft is about 4 cubic metres of hardwood per year. That's the average over 12 years. Included in the stove is approx 80 lbs of refractive brick which help hold heat longer. My stove will cycle down to about 8000 btu and still maintain an efficient fire. A full box at night will maintain the house at 20 degrees celcius down to about -20 celci us outside temp. Lower then that we could wake up at 18; rarely less then that. All that to say wood stoves have come a long way since their cast iron ancestors. Nothing against the rocket mass heater but understand the choices and tradeoffs well.
Best regards, David Baillie
Hi Daniel, if you are looking into it now the biggest thing would be to incorporate an inverter that supports grid tied, off grid, generator, and grid supported. I am very fond of the Outback Radian system myself. http://www.outbackpower.com/outback-products/make-the-power/radian-series-inverter-chargers/item/radian-series-gs8048?category_id=529 Other companies have different flavours of the same thing. Traditional grid tie inverters feed the grid and shut down power during outages. The Radian will charge batteries and feed the balance into the grid. Should the batteries not be enough it will supplement with grid power if available or start up a generator. Building new that's what you would plan for. The grid is there, not there, there sometimes, you are covered.
Best regards, David Baillie
You are reading what is called open circuit voltage. Removed from load it does not tell you anything. Traditionally those thin film panels have an open voltage reading of 26 volts or more in full sun. See if your multi meter has a amp meter reader. Better ones do usually up to 10 amps. That would give you a better idea. You want to measure power which is voltage×amperage not just voltage.
Best regards, David Baillie
From personal experience some front loading washers will not like some generators and won't engage the spin cycle. We enjoy our frigid aire front loader. It does not have a heat element. Even if you machine does turn the selector to hot wash, it will fill with hot water then switch it to warm wash cold rinse when it's full; no heat element. Smaller and cheaper we used to have a side by side Danby type washer with the centrifuge wringer separate from the tub. Primitive but no pedals. Avoid modified sine inverters at all costs. Some cheap full sine will also be a problem.
Best regards, David Baillie
There are cheap basic mppt charger on amazon for a fraction of the cost. Having said that please take every professionals advice I have ever heard and buy quality on the charger. Morningstar outback and midnite solar are all excellent and will bring a smile to your face for a decade or more. They blow the pants of traditional chargers. Not on sunny days at noon but of partially cloudy mornings and afternoons where the angle and light are not perfect. Save the headache and downtime and generating expense down the road.
Best regards, David Baillie
I try to judge who I'm talking to before I answer. If they drive up in a pretty nice car I turn the tables and ask them what the pay back period is on heated leather seats? If they are your rugged individual type it's more about controlling my own life. My greenie techie friends will get the whole analysis including directly controlling my pollution not contributting to the mess,hidden subsidy of the energy sector, cool factor, intellectual stimulation and self reliance. I do not think renewables can win in a money only comparison except where the conditions are perfect. That argument is reductionist which is what economics does. People worth knowing will get it. You will never convince the rest.
Humble opinion of course
Best regards, David Baillie
I have full spectrum led in my house incandescent is a dying technology. If natural light is the goal spend more time outside. I would not exchange my 76 year projected life expectancy for the much shorter ones of my ancestors. Rotten teeth, rickets, tb, and not a single light bulb in sight. All ages have complications.
As a guess you do not have enough secondary air so you are no reburning the smoke containing the volatiles. Look up on YouTube gary gilmore's charcoal retort videos. The two barrel system is very easy and the barrel in barrel system is also improved by using his barrel on top secondary air reburner. I make biochar for running engines like gary does but the process is the same.
Best regards David Baillie
Hi Brendan, if you look at yahoo groups the charcoal gasifier group you will find all sorts of charcoal makers. If you like the sealed retort I made 20 gallons or so last winter in my wood stove with a length of 7" stovepipe and two end caps. It made the best hardwood charcoal I have made. You could immerse it while still hot to give you that desired consistency. I never do as my goal is always motor fuel. Some people on the group do.
Best regards David Baillie
Hi Brendan, I am curious why the closed retort? I have used one for making gasifier fuel but not biochar. Seems like overkill. New here and don't want to step on toes. Have you looked up Gary Gilmore's two barrel system for making charcoal? Basically a 55 gallon drum full of material, holes on the bottom burned down and sealed. A second hollow barrel on top as an afterburner. No inner retort lots more material per load, great biochar.
Best regards David Baillie
