Tina Saravia wrote: They love fresh greens in the cabbage family, esp, collard greens, except for cabbage. They only eat it cooked.
Eggs are rich in sulfur, so are cruciferous!
So if you have self seeded nasturtium as I have all Winter, they Will eat it very happilly, for the same reason: sulfur. And they start with flowers, though they have a less strong taste than leaves, so for me again, it means hens do not value fiber that much! As us, they think chickweed is a very nice and tender salad! They also seem to prefer tender leaves than old ones. It can also be because older leaves have more "natural defense chemicals"!?
Soooo… what are they reluctant about, chemicals or fiber? If somebody knows more...?
Thanks for your answer, and our conversation allowed this point to be raised, so thanks you!
I have heard many times about leaving even a ruminant tightened to a place until they eat even what they do not like! As you mention this "childhood trauma"... maybe we thought that in the end it was a good thing, and apply the same to animals?
It is partly fine, if we know what they can eat and is ok, and do not let reach the point they choose the least damage! It is also fine when you know they refuse something that they can eat, just because they want the easiest calories, as grains...
But I have also noticed differences between seasons, so is it that they will eat when there is nothing else, or because each seasons brings its own nutrition to the leaves?
Also, as animals "spoil" a lot of food and even shit on it and then ask for more food.... my conclusion is that they would eat all down to a desert, if nature had not provided the solution! We want them to eat all the bought and cultivated food, because it is valuable. And we prefer that they make compost with what has less value... But their behaviour is the right one for nature's want to have manure!
And a good method seems to me to get them used to variety as young as possible. I think animals also look at what others eat, and that it limits the risk of poisonning (not so sure of this for non mammals though...). As for us, part is nature/instinct, and part is nurture/learning.
Mandy Launchbury-Rainey wrote:The way to get them eating it is to give comfrey to them before any other feed, like a starter. You know, like when you had to eat your vegetables before you got pudding.
Knowing animals have instinct and eat what they need, don't you think that obligating them to eat what they do not like is not the best solution?
Animals will even eat poisonous plants when starving. The intermediate is that they will eat what is not good or not nutritious for them.
I give comfrey to sheep as they are ruminants.
Comfrey is not recommended for humans to eat, at least it depends on the quantity, and who knows for hens?
Hens also love nasturtium. The common point with cruciferous is SULFUR. As egg yolks are a good source of sulfur, I guess you all make the link!
And maybe children also have some sort of instinct, as long as we talk about natural foods. Insoluble fibers are creating constipation in some people, who actually benefit from eating less veggies! My niece did not even want to eat fruits, as she found them all acidic. They forced her to eat them, until she got a big stomach problem. She loved salmon with mayonaise since ever and would even eat dark bitter chocolate... She obviously needs more fat than other people and also animal food. Let's give room for insticts!
Xisca Nicolas wrote:My top loading machine turns on an horizontal axis!
I would love to learn more about this machine. I haven't seen one like this before.
My great grandmother had a top loader that spun like a front loader, it had a "door" in the drum that you opened to put the clothes in and out
Is it so different in 2 different continents! I remember my grand-parents one working yes.... Mine is a recent machine and yes, it also has this "door". So when you open the top, you often have to turn the drum by hand, until you get the "door" on top in order to open it. So I was sure about the axis...
but it would be nice to find the cause, with ours there's no dirt in the seal nothing in the filter..
Then in my 1st post up there, I said :
You will surely find something wrong ...in the detergent compartment! I think mold grows in the rests of detergents!
Unscrew all this as you have no access to clean it all! I am a mold intolerant, so I look at this closely...
My top loading machine turns on an horizontal axis!
The difference is that instead of from left to right, it turns from back to front. And yes the clothes go out of the water and then dip into it again, I can even listen to it.
And as I often let my washing soak, I have already opened it, to check how much the clothes were IN the water. It was not full until the top at all, and I concluded that it is also the reason why we are supposed to not fill the machine but let some space for the clothes to move.
A septic tank has bacterias and for sure you do not want to put there any bactericide.
Debi Baker wrote:No ammonia straight to plants
I don't even put that in my septic, but I am very careful with my septic
Pour it on some invasive you're trying to kill
And after evaporating from the water?
I used it in a bucket for clothes smelling fungi, and then took the clothes off, and let the water sit there, before pouring the water away near a banana tree. The amonia smell had disapeared.
I have washed the wet with amonia + water clothes in my washing machine, that has a direct flow near a papaya. Even the weeds are still there!
I never understood why front doors washing machines.... Top loading is much easier.
Molds develop less with a HIGH Ph -> detergent + baking soda.
Smell your machine and look for black spot. You will surely find something wrong ...in the detergent compartment! I think mold grows in the rests of detergents!
If so, I advise cleaning with amonia, which is the best alkaline product against molds. It might even get rid of what has already entered the surface of the plastic. You will have to unscrew a few parts, to get access to the inner parts. So there is more than the filter to clean!
Molds can live INSIDE plastic, and then you can't get rid of it. Bleach will not reach inside. Amonia somehow yes. Maintenance has to be done often enough.
My washing routine (Air here between 70 and 90 % humidity...)
- What is very dirty with dirt from the garden 1st goes into a bucket, and I shower while pre-washing as if on a tread-mill!
(+ singing will make it a very good waking-up method! Unavoidable if your water is not really warm!)
- I load before bed and stop the program by unplugging. It is soaking in deteregent + baking soda all night.
I use only the quick program.
Spinning at its maximum.
- I re-plug the next morning. Hang when there is sun.
Ok it happens that I forget, and I have even had to re-wash sometimes...
- I leave the top opened.
Not all plants will like the accumulation of sodium from the water...
Soaking in water + amonia is the best if you want to get rid of molds and spores and also the accumulated MYCOTOXINS in your clothes.
Somebody suggested to build something like a fruit/plant dryer, to use the sun best, and I agree with the idea very much, though it might not be so easy to make racks for clothes.
I have read once that it was the best way to prepare pig meat anyway, because the meat is actually fermented. They had found out that fresh pork meat was likely in the majority of humans, to aggregate platelets. It was interesting to read an explanation of both the traditional way of preparing pig before eating, and the ban on pork eating in several cultures. For fresh meat, it is still possible to treat it before hand, by letting them in vinegar before cooking.
I do not like electric use, but I do not like the loss of quality with salt drying... Any information about nutrient loss? Salt make a lot of juices come out, thus precious minerals, at least.
Another question:
What is the max air humidity that can be tolerated to dry cure? Here we often have 70 to 90 %, and thus drying was not done (ot is often a mountain zone activity!), but keeping in salt was. As most wet areas are near the sea, all this seem to follow a nice logic!
I definitely want that we stay on track with the title for the sake of further searching...
TIME
So.... can gaining TIME make LOOSE either time or something else later?
I think so.
So I will argue about the value and use of time spent for killing and butchering, and for the cooking points, we'd better make a new post!
Jondo Almondo wrote:Zero clean-out or organ removal. Flame off feathers.
Take off beak and toenails. Collect the blood only to toss it into the stew.
Dilute the gall in a big stew.
Contents of the crop become the thickener.
Long cooking time.
Put the feet in a final pot (much scrubbing and scalding on these) for the days-long simmering stock (and cartilage).
I thought that a few hours boiling should clean up anything
no fridge or freezer (and I wanted to extract every calorie from the carcass).
In retrospect, I wish I'd had a pressure cooker to be 100% sure about safety.
1- Take time to do a clean job!
One hand for the skin on hair side, and one hand exclusively for inside the skin and touching meat.
Ok, when you cook, you sterilize and can do something else... and save time?
BUT you do not extract more calories, you loose some! And you loose protein quality.
I have noticed that the less cooked, the less I have to eat for the same satisfaction. Also there are some elements that turn into GAS, and fat being carbon and hydrogen....
I don't know if some nitrogen escape, but cooking definitely DAMAGE part of the proteins.
So we'd better be clean from the start, take time, and respect the energy that the animal offers!
No long cooking, no pressure cooker for proteins.
No fridge? Another reason for doing a clean job from the start!
Yes you can boil every day, but it does not mean long cooking from the start. I finish everything in the crock pot, and even bones turn out edible. But I begin with eating raw all I can eat raw. I assure you that the meat is more tender, and that cooking harden the meat. Then it needs long cooking. I finish with some more cooking so that I can get access to what is very hard or very near the bones. Nutrition also goes to the broth. Part of my cooking is thus long because it is repeated, allowing me to eat the same animal during several days.
I have also kept raw meat in sauerkraut and it works. You can also use lemon juice of vinegar, especially with pork as this meat is better eaten fermented.
2- I have no problem about keeping the gall bladder, after all they sell this in capsules.... helping digest fats!
3- Scrubbing feet? Jeez no need to!
Nearly boiling water, scald and remove feathers, burn only the remnants instead of burning the whole lot.
Scald the feet and you will remove the covering of both feet, toes and even nails like a glove!
Yes you can even keep the nails, they are pink and clean after removing the outside skin...
4- Gut cleaning:
I have seen this for guinea pigs in Peru: just express what comes out of the small intestine, but open and clean inside for the colon part.
I have fed guinea pigs fennel before killing, and it is indeed good for eating the whole lot cooked together.
I try to separate the fat from the guts of bigger animals. I still have this if I fail to prepare the guts and give them to hens...
5- Tips for saving time?
You were right spot on the topic, I agree! But IMO you loose too much by doing this way.
And again, I would love to discuss any of the cooking points in another post. I just touch them a bit, for the sake of explaining why it is better to take the time needed.
[UPDATE: Do you have experience making alternative mattresses, including using straw? We were forced to give up this straw mattress due to back pain and an unfortunate uneven sleeping surface. If you have tips about how to make a more comfortable natural mattress, please contact us!]
But the reason seem to be that they made a special shape, and they cannot turn the mattress and so it gets lumpy.
In comments:
i made my own mattress with an organic cotton futon mattress cover ($30 for a deep queen, three side zip cover on ebay) and stuffed it with buckwheat hull that i ordered from a local central NY farm (eventually spent a little less than $200 on filling it to the extent i wanted)…
as the bed is form-fitting, every few nights i level out the buckwheat again… i used to have lower back pain, but it’s a thing of the past… the buckwheat is always a perfect temperature… i have horrible allergies to straw and hay, and i’m unaffected by the buckwheat… supposedly it deters bugs too.
only downside– HEAVY (i think mine is around 300lbs)… luckily, just empty the buckwheat into smaller containers or contractor trash bags to move in small loads)… it’s a ridiculously oversized bean-bag of a bed, but luxurious to sleep on/in.
I would also love to share my place and would also have shared the place of others...
Planning what can go wrong is a need, with limits, but too much of a distance can also prevent deepening the link in the necessary way! If you take the other person's point of view, helping and beeing told good bye is not a good prospect either... When we are not from a tribe since birth, this is definitely a challenge... When selling, the owner gets money back, and the helper does not. Ideally, both persons should hope for a long term commitment, because motivation comes from this, at least commitment to be the tender of this piece of land!
I have made some intents too, and the main defect newcomers have is to want to bring their own stuff too quick. This is not about having competence or not, but first about asking the person to sink into the place and suck the energy, in order to become part of it. Initiatives must always be said before they are acted, until the person knows the place enough. So this is not even about being the owner, but how long people have been living in the place.
This was becoming my exact conclusion!
No infection, just congestion. the milk is still like milk, and I am fortunate, as I have milked her with some cratches on my hands, I did not get infected....
I have put the treatment inside with canula from the vet, 3 days, and it was prednisolone and some anticeptic. 1 shot i did, I guess he send me antibiotic (I am nto the one who went to the vet). It was not enough but massaging is now easier. I struggle with hand lack of energy nyself to milk very often, but will try to do more, so it will also hurt me less!
YES about ligaments! This is not a doe, this is an ewe! So the size is even more disproportionate! And at birth, I think also from the ligament problem, the 1st did not expulse properly and the second came. I even pulled the second while the first was still in the way, so imagine how much room there was! Then I got the first out. The legs were not out so I could not get her out. And also she could already breathe. So I just pulled the second out.
About being hurt on the ground, the lower part of the udder has become like hard leather and wrinkled.
Yes I had used mentol from cow products before, for bitches, and it was efficient. They seem to not have it here.... I now put helicrhysum italicum, very strong anti-inflamatory.
Yes I have enough to "munch" for a while thanks!
I did not know Sunn hemp, I have to find seed...
As a cool season legume, I have seen flowers that look the same as vetch, wild, as they used to grow several legumes around, in the times they had to eat from the land not so long ago... They were actually sowing a lot for animals.
The legume I mentionned is their favorite: bituminaria bituminosa. I already have periploca and will grow more in the rocky places, because it is said to be valuable and nutritious. It is a native, so not well-known!
Thanks, a lot of good learning! Yes culling a lot is planned, thus my question, in order to keep the lambs until they are at least 100 days. I was not going to keep as many, but let's say we had a problem with my boyfriend: he, more than I thought, does things at the last moment, so I was trusting that if he did not bother my asking to cull 6 months ago, there was enough food. Local sheep are really eating everything, much more than goats.
No field but mountain slopes. Also no hay here. I can find organic barley and corn only. Then alfalfa.
Is it something that they can eat since little, from the beginning?
Not too much fermentng with grains?
I am also looking into methods for sprouting barley, if this is adequate for young animals. Some people told me no, others ok if 10 days but not when just sprouted... I imagine this could be concentrated food for them!
My soil is slightly acidic like near 6 or just under. It is quite balanced and not clogging, just the right amount of clay. I can still work it when dry. Not deep, no underwater at all in the island. My zone is west, the south of Garafía, just before the wetter zone. Rain is very irrgular, maybe 500mm... Let's sayt the strict minimum for almond trees to survive, and some vine can survive from the past (when the climate was more wet 30 years ago) only in the northern slopes.
Heat is only 28-30ºc in summer exept when we have calima from the sahara!
Sure that helps!
I am exhausted but will try to do the work to arrive to the month!
Thanks for insisting on the idea of the quality of forage.
I buy regular alfalfa (I guess it is not very much sprayed, hope I am not wrong) and organic barley and corn. (nothing else can be found organic here). Alfalfa is concetrated.
About my location... I am interrogative if this appears with my name: Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11
It is frostfree, latitude 28ª, same as south of Morocco, but with an oceanic climate coupled with a meditarranean climate. This "year" we had rain early in october, but almost nothing then, until some more rain in february. Some drops to wash leaves in between...
I am at 500 m high, this is why the tagaste is not natural, but I can plant it and will. I also have pigeon pea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon_pea It would help if I know at what moment is the branch best loaded with nutrition. I guess when there are some green pods with the green pea and some flowers at the end of the branch?
Andrew, this is handy, but you need a freezer! Live animal keep better "at room temperature".... ;)
(I just could not resist the joke...)
Now I can also add why there are no equipment for chicken here.... Nobody use would it, even professionally, because the slaughter house does not accept chicken! So ALL the chicken sold in La Palma island come from the bigger island of Tenerife! Of course they arrive already processed.
People still have hens at home, and still process by hand. But they seldom do it and mostly have hens for eggs. Roosters are easy to find but I am not super interrested ...they are all GMO fed. All corn is GMO in Spain, and very few people put the price in organic corn.
As Leora said, it is frustrating and removes the hope to be able to do all this at home and in small scale. I can understand how much easier is our society by having developped specialised work, though we have gone too far now.
We cannot have a machine or even rent it (and here I would find none of those solutions...) for eating 1 or 2 chickens a week!
Thanks for your answers. They have different age and are under 3 weeks old, and I still expect one birth. I try to question in advance! As I said, the answers were going to help me plan, and especially how many I can try to keep at least 3 months or not. Here lambs are kept until 100 days.
But there was almost no tradition of eating mutton, appart from removing young lambs. The canarian breed is for milk and wool. They were just leaving the old dead animals for wild life! I am not joking : you will not commonly find mutton at the butcher here! People used to eat pig and still do. This is more than half you see at the butcher.... Then beef comes second.
Here even in the northern hemisphere, we are at the end of the grass season, so not like spring in the north! This is why I said I was beginning to lack food!
They are for eating. Yes I know they can drink that long, but i want to know how much this is possible to reduce this time, so that I do not have to kill them much younger. I have to kill the mothers as soon as possible because there is no more food. I was not supposed to keep them that long but for many reasons they are still there and thus got youngs... So if they have no mother, either I have to kill them too or hope they can eat grass. So... at what age are they able to eat only grass, even if this is not the ideal?
Hi there! I start to suffer from the lack of grass/drought, and I will have to remove some sheep so that I can keep the lambs a little longer. I just cannot keep up with the grass cutting and carrying any more. I had to give a bit more grain than I like, nd even with full buckets of alfalfa, they are asking for GREEN!
I just don't know how old should the lambs be so that they can eat on their own without having milk any more.
I am not very fond of the idea to fight so that one gives a bit of milk to the lambs that are not hers. I am not fond of buying replacement, but if this is the best for everybody.... The only ewe that I can milk presently has some mastitis.
Of course I can just wait and see... but I would like to plan a little bit more! The answer to my question will help me to plan further decisions! Thanks!
I have a super millky ewe. I even had to milk her before giving birth.
The problem is that she has the udder like 4" from the ground. I don't know if it has to do with the fact that she hurts it, but one side is so hard now that I can hardly get some milk out of it. The 2 lambs had enough milk with one side, which is fine. I saw there was something wrong because she was giving bumps with her foot as a relfex to the lamb who tried the right side. And I know this side has always been a little bigger. She behaves normally and does not look sick.
It is said that mastitis comes from an infection, but is it so sure? I would tend to think that first comes the inflamation if this side is not milked, and then can come some bacterias...
Anyway at the moment, I massage and try to get out some milk, and obviously I never get as far as making the udder supple. What else can I do? Put some heat? Are there some plants, like essential oils that would do it? Or I give the vet treatment?
As a second aspect, I ask myself if I should keep her or not.... I still cannot get the answer if this size of udder is normal in milk bread! I am the seoncd owner, and they told me that she was ginving milk for an exceptional long time after giving birth. Of course in our irregular stoney ground, she always hurt her udder.
k Smith wrote:He does it mostly laying down, a few times standing up but mostly when he is just sitting there looking bored.
Looking bored is anthropomorphism, they are never bored, they rest! And when they have this look, I know my sheep are ruminating... (but not thoughts....)
You are just doing more than enough, you do not have to entertain him like some modern children when they are not in a natural environmet. All "kids" know how to behave from their CORE!
(I also understand you want to be sure you do the necessary)
Susan Boyce wrote:It's not just our mind believing something, our energy field is full of information. Most of us use 5% of our brain capacity just by habits. You don't have to think about how to drive a car etc your habits take care of that. So we go around on auto pilot. Dig deep and you'll find there is much more here.
Habits are there to free us from using too much of our precious energy.
When I drive and when secure, I use the principles I said about using our senses, as if I were a tourist, with curiosity. I always see new things. And in nature I always notice all trees and plants that are there. It helps me to be in the here and now.
Noticing danger is automatic. Noticing pleasure and beauty.... not as much, but it can be cultivated, and we should!
And I believe that "believing" is a way to help access what we cannot access with our mind... A paradox!
Can you modify your heartbeats?
No.
Can you run?
then you can decide to run in order to modify your heart beats....
So the answer that was no, has changed into a yes!!!
If you cannot run, maybe you can choose a movie that will do the trick? lol....
If believing was just stupid and useless, we would not have written novels nor made movies.... They all use our imagination, our capacity to create inner images, and our physiology does not make any difference. Think about the lemon and that you squeeze lemon juice into your mouth, drip by drip of acid lemon on your tongue... Do you have any physiological effect? If no, imagine better....
It is a marvelous tool.
And you do not have to believe in the magic of the lemon: just imagine what you want. Some imaginations, like a possible catastrophe, come alone, and it can help when we can prepare. Some imaginations do not come alone, but they are wonderful to use: think about your last wonderful walk in the forest! Or the waves the last time you listened to the wind on the beach with the hot sand under your feet... It needs more effort than the automatic reaction to danger, but it is worth it, because you will come back to a baseline and be ready for both rest and action, yin and yang alternating.
Chris Kott wrote:
And are the effects psychosomatic? Does it "work" only if you believe because if you believe, then you don't need it to work reliably?
The main problem of the word somatic, is that it has been learned through the word "psychosomatic"!
Just think about soma alone. This is the use of energy that we do, and it is automatic, it is our inner wise, our organic intelligence... Somatic work is a form of body work through awareness of our movements, and even our breathing spontaneous movements.
And we know we interact with energies just when we connect around with perception, using our senses. Light and sounds are waves with frequencies. Plants do phtosynthesis and everything owe life to the sun/light. Sounds come from something that touches something = interaction, contact between limits. Contact also makes heat, even tiny, and it is electricity too. We know that the earth emits radiations, and they surely come from all the inner movements of earth, and also the contact from its speed into the universe.
the brain has an electrical activity and indeed comes from inside, and interacts with the outside. The 3 languages of our body are thoughts, emotions and sensations. We often have interactions between our thoughts and emotions, and how many times do we notice that our emotions also have a physical effect in the body? And what we know is that actually it is often the reverse: our emotions come from an unnoticed slight sensation. Either we did not notice it, or emotions help to sustain the sensation so we can act. Fear and anger make your escapes, hidings and fights more stubborn and effective for example.
A nocebo example:
When I was doing the somatic Experiencing training, I accidentally ate gluten and notice it at the end of the meal, before any effect. I directly went to see the teacher, because I did not want to spoil the course by being ill. It was little in a bechamel, so I had no way to know if I was going to react or not. I had no belief but doubts. The teacher did help me, it was done in a few minutes, and he did not do it through the mind but the felt-sense and the alert I felt in my body.
Due to the activation of the nervous system in such training, I was more likely to react to gluten than not... By resourcing the body sensation, I totally escaped any side-effect. And I can tell that in my mind, I was not sure at all i was going to escape, even after what we had done. I just did what I knew was going to influence my body.
By the way, nocebo effects can happen whether the person takes the substance! It means that if you know the side-effects, you are more likely to have them. It is not only when you take a false pill. So it means that the placebo effect also helps the meds we take when we take the real one!!!1
So if we can avoid a real effect of something we really took.... and by methods that do not use the mind only....
Using our nervous system is a way to control what is uncontrolable by the mind.
Xisca Nicolas wrote:
Part ot it is YES. Search for the nocebo effect... people taking what they think is a med and is a placebo, and they do not say this much.... that some people seem to get the adverse effect. Placebo and nocebo are both real.
They are an effect of suggestion. They are a product of the mind, not an external effect. If I go outside on a sunny day without clothing, I can not prevent a sunburn by the power of my mind. I can not stop the sun's radiation with the nocebo effect.
"An opposite tendency—and one that has been largely overlooked by the research community—is the nocebo effect. Put simply, it is the phenomenon in which inert substances or mere suggestions of substances actually bring about negative effects in a patient or research participant. For some, being informed of a pill or procedure’s potential side effects is enough to bring on real-life symptoms. Like the placebo effect, it is still poorly understood and thought to be brought about by a combination of Pavlovian conditioning and a reaction to expectations."
And when you say: " If the field exists in the natural world (aka "reality") then wouldn't any healing effects occur naturally, without special meditation practice? I'm not talking about a placebo effect of belief in the field, I'm talking about real effects whether one believes in/is aware of them or not." you have to take into account that is it not ONE field but many, and we also have one.
Placebo and nocebo are more than suggestion, it is also about a response to what is around, as nothing is in relationship alone.
And NO you will not make vitamine D just because you are in the sun, even if you are in the sun at the right moment (some peoole go in the sun at a moment they will ot make vitD...) I was in the sun the right way and had low vitamine D. A hair test showed that I had too much calcium, and my body had decided to limit the vitamine D making! We respond, and we have reasons to do it that our mere reason ignores! THIS is the reaction of our field to the outer field.
Pearl Sutton wrote: A similar process takes place by us choosing to be more receptive to the energy of the planet.
I don't have to choose to be receptive to the sun's energy. It affects me whether I choose it or not. Same with gravity. Reality affects me whether I choose it or not. It seems to me that if I have to choose it, then it is not reality, it is in my mind.
Tyler and Pearl, is anything not clear in what I explained? It connects to what you both said and it would be my pleasure to make is more practical if it is not enough!
It is not in the mind, so you do not have to choose with your mind.
You are right in what you first said Tyler, that the sun affects you anyway. Pearl, is the choice of the word "choose" adequately represented if I say "awareness" instead? It will not change the reception, but might change our relationship to what touches us, and also change our response to it.
How long shall I stay in the sun? Is there a shade between me and what I want to feel? Do I receive enough, not enough, too much?
About choice, is it about deciding to go out? Deciding to remove our shoes sometimes? In any case, our choice will change our awareness. The choice is nevertheless not enough, as we need to pay attention too. This will change our response (and avoid sunburn and allow to get our vitamine D too...).
This is not about the mind only because the nervous system is wider than the mind alone. We relate and behave according to :
- our mental mind,
- our emotions,
- our inner sensations,
- our outter perception through senses.
We relate the outside and the inside through imagination, by using visual images or auditive images and any memory from our senses. (how do you feel NOW if you remember a good ad a bad memory? Any difference? ;) )
Our global thinking is much more than mental. Just try to think out loud, and you will see that you cannot follow the speed and richness of your global thoughts! Also because you have several sensations and images at the same time! When you get all those channels working fluently, the global experience is felt as spiritual, which includes also thoughts in words, and emotions, but with an added huge felt sense that goes beyond emotions and thoughts.
We often have an easier access to thoughts and emotions, and these 2 are easy to convey. The felt-sense of the biology is not easy to convey but we get it beyond words, and in art, in music, in dance, and in deep relationships, with humans or our environment, the space, the universe...
Tyler Ludens wrote:It seems to me that if there is an energy field then we are connected to it whether we "do it wrong" or do it right, even if we are not aware of it. I don't have to believe in the sun to get a sunburn. The beneficial effect of sunlight (short of a sunburn) helps my body produce Vitamin D whether I am aware of this effect or not. How is it the energy field described in this thread requires belief and proper practice to exhibit beneficial effects? If the field exists in the natural world (aka "reality") then wouldn't any healing effects occur naturally, without special meditation practice? I'm not talking about a placebo effect of belief in the field, I'm talking about real effects whether one believes in/is aware of them or not.
I love your question!
Part ot it is YES. Search for the nocebo effect... people taking what they think is a med and is a placebo, and they do not say this much.... that some people seem to get the adverse effect. Placebo and nocebo are both real.
Part of it is NO, and what blocks the current? Well, if you have clouds, it affects the sun rays! So there are 2 points: we can be in the shade of something, and the second point is about OUR energy, not the sun's. We also have an energy pattern, in waves.
We have the gas and the brake, action and rest. We have all seen the effects of too strong activation, like the flight and fight, but also people who get hysteric when something TOO GOOD happens! INTENSITY - of good an bad - is hard to stand, and we can stand different levels, like 2v or 110v or 220v!
Also, as I have explained, the waves of up and down are reciprocal and in 2 branches of the nervous system, and they need to work like the 2 pedals of the car: in reciprocity, alternating. And we also have 2 brakes! One is not reciprocal, which means we can block an acceleration with our equivalent to the hand brake! And when we remove it, we find the full acceleration that was hidden, which tend to make us pull a bit of the brake again (this is all happening on its own, not voluntary). Going on with the analogy, it makes us be tired and lack energy, when we have such de-sync. The best for all living beings since birth, is to have the luck to live in an environmet that will help us face just what we can handle. The sweet spot is where we can be motivated and go over the challenge. Not enough and too much are both unhelpful. This is the basis of hormesis. We interact with other fields of energy, and connecting through looking at what is nice and noticing plant fractal patterns is a nice tool for harmony and flow....
Andres Edwards wrote:There's research going on about the vagus nerve and some of the results show that the vagus nerve affects our empathy, sympathy and compassion. Our vagus nerve activates when, for example, we feel empathy and compassion toward someone's situation. So in a way the vagus nerve is a sensor that we all have that connects us to other people. This nerve helps us to calm down and also connect with others!
The main source would be the polyvagal theory - Steven Porges. His work is used in somatic therapies, and shows how to regulate the ANS - Autonomic Nervous System.
The vagus is the yin side, so it is activated all the time, though it can block when it activates as the same time as the other side of the oscillations, causing dissociation between some of our channels, because of the de-synchronisation.
The vagus has 2 branches, and the one above the diaphragm - ventral branch - is responsible for all social engagement behaviors, empathy and also just smile and all cues that can be read on our face. When there is sumpathetic activation at the same time, it creates PLAY!
The dorsal branch goes mainly in our guts and act for our digestion when it is reciprocal with the sympathetic. If the sympathetic activation is too high, then the vagus can block the activation: this is the dissociation process. When we cannot create a safe distance with a threat, then we "create a bubble" to get into an artificial protective distance, so that we are less impacted. It can have different intensities, from day-dreaming to passing out!
It is very mportant to note that most nerve fibers are carrying informations from the body to the brain - central nervous system - more than the reverse! So mainly, it means our body is informing our brain, more than the brain sending orders to the body!
Be careful with artificial methods (there are electric devices) and intensity of work with the vagus or kundalini, because when it regulates, it will let appear some past powerful activations that your vagus protected you from! I really advise people who work with energies to learn to feel the 2 sides of the pendulation and increase slowly and with a lot of work outside yourself, through the senses. I can tell from animals that they are very much in contact with those waves, and that they are very visible, and that they are accompagnied by physical signs of change. The ups and down are very visible, and I almost do not see any in humans, as we need to be more socially correct! We almost have to kow at what time we will fart, so that we can excuse ourself for any reason and let our impulse express safely!
Safe regulations of the vagus include being socially engage, or with nature, but sharing with another human is the most powerful ; singing and humming, as the vagus goes through the throat. Pandiculation, as cats getting up, and yawning. Breathing with a light pause after breathing out...Also, being in tune with circadian rythms helps.
Ed Belote wrote: The yang must have the yin to be whole.
May I precise this point?
Yang and yin show a wave pattern because life is not a fixed state. It represents the up and down waves of any electric activity, be it sound light or ...us!
This is the heart beat, this is any contraction and expantion, action and rest. It all alternates, so it also means a bit different than being whole through showing the 2 complementary colors and parts, or the little point of the other color, the yang in yin and the yin in yang.
What is sure is that all states change, as waves. The little point of the other color is there to make us remember that one state already contains the other/nest/precedent. This is good to remember when we feel bad! It will change!
But we can go further and also, in some stuck moments, we can if we are really atuned, we can find a bit of deactivation in the activation, and learn to take the path back to a nice and fluent waving pattern. More than representing being whole, it represents change and all alternate/reciprocal states. Breathe in, breathe out... LIFE!
John Suavecito wrote: Many people become angry when someone suggests a practice that is not yet proven beyond a reasonable doubt to benefit. It's free and it makes me feel good. I don't see a problem with it.
Xisca Nicolas wrote:I am also working on this, and it is not woo-woo, it is biological, physiological. That is why it is linked to the soma, the perception of the body from inside and outside. This biological electricity is simply perceived by our antenna, and it is not magical, it is just our nervous system! Nerves are our electrical wiring, and it is much more than the brain and not controlled only by the brain. The main nerve that does this is the vagus nerve, but it is not the only one.
Are you saying the Vagus nerve is the main antenna, but there are other antennae throughout the body?
It is the main and largest and the most well-known nerve, but there are other nerves in the ANS - Autonomic Nervous System - thus my precaution, as many write about the vagus as if the unique important nerve. There are even vagus stimulation devices! But there are natural ways to regulate it. Meditation is one, though it must be balanced by connection to the outside through our senses, at least 50% - 50%. It has also been said to be the source of kundalini and indeed a kundalini wakening looks like a change in autonomic balance. All this being pendulation between sympathetic and para-sympathetic, some peole working too strong on kundalini miss their balance and end up in psychiatric room for some time. We have threashold of otlerance that must be built up.
I cannot mean there are no other antennas than nerves, as who knows.... but we are also living bodies, and this body for sure has a role, and what is more electric in the body than nerves? Well, cells themselves are too.... Electricity is life!
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