several of the books I've read lately (see reading list thread) have been talking about re evaluating your STUFF ..of course we in America have way more stuff than we need and more than most countries..I understand there are actually a few countries that are even more stuff cenetered than american (which I wasn't aware of before reading a few books about it)..
I have enjoyed a few movies and shows about power being off, or emp, or other things lately that show how little importance the "stuff" will have if certain things happen in the future (peak oil, emp, invasion, etc.)...but I guess if you have the bucks and want it now more power to you..although it does support the evil empire to each his own.
Sometimes I even feel a bit guilty about being able to afford to buy the fruit and nut trees and perennial plants I put in when I read all this..but guilt is not my thing and I quickly move on.
Permaculture: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability by David Holmgren
I would say, read the earlier permaculture books. This was OK..but it was extremely political and outspoken against certain politics and religions..which I found quite off putting especially when it talks "Integrate rather than Segregate" but speaks in bigoted terms throughout the book.
Read it if you like ..some good information..but be forwarned. Most books I'll still recommend even when they have some outspoken political or religious beliefs..I'm going to bypass recommending this one and suggest you read some of Bill Mollison's permaculture works instead.
for us who have NO CLUE..would you please add some ferment recipes to this thread? Like how to ferment Jerusalem artichokes and other vegetables and what ones can be fermented and how and why?
How to ferment all that other stuff everyone is talking about on this thread. cheese, keiffer,breads, yogurts..etc..would love some recipes and instructions
yeah I understand about the things I have made like yogurt, sauerkraut and sourdough breads, wine and a few other things..but about most of the rest I'm clueless
i just posted that I'm looking to buy a metal on metal canner..have the old rubber seal kind..have it on my wishlist at amazon and will be placing the order soon, my mom gave me the money to buy it. It looks like a good one..also believe it is american brand..but don't know the numbers
i couldn't agree with you more (just wished my family hunted still.)..also love canned wild caught fish..even suckers can up beautifully..similar to salmon
I am just now getting ready to order a new canner, without a rubber gasket . This one is metal on metal..and I was wondering if anyone would have any info for me before I place my order. also planning on getting one of the strainers that removes the seeds of like berries..which my husband can't digest.
thanks for quick info so I can get my order in right away.
Interesting as salt is a consideration that I would be wanting to know more about as well.. I'm just learning to like a larger variety of fermented foods..and want to learn more about what is out there and how to do it..
I've always done pickes and have dabbled at sauerkraut..even tried to blow up my house with wine..
Well I admit I have been learning a few things thru permies about fermentation for a while..but when I was "growing up" I was taught over and over that "pickled foods aren't good for you" ..and then when I was reading "one straw revolution" I learned that might not be right. Now I'm learning more and more about how they may actually be healthier for you and that it is possibly an important part of our diet and a good way to store foods over our Michigan Winters.
So yeah, I really need to know the truth, pretty much relearn everything..so HELP..
the Encyclopedia of Country Living ..Emery...has how to grow, harvest and cook just about everything with LOTS of recipes..this is a BUY not BORROW book..a must keep
I live in Michigan where we have both STATE land forests and private forests..the state land forests are a great benefit to the State of Michigan and I highly recommend that the state continue to own this land..consumers Power company also owns a ton of land in Michigan, much of it along rivers..and it is mostly wilderness other than camping and fishing access..some misuse by offroaders.
Also in N Michigan, we have a lot of privately owned forest and woodlands..much of it interconnected across property lines, esp in our area. Thus a lot of the forest continues to be highly preserved by small to large landowners..and many of us are planting a lot of diversity of trees on our property..between myself and our neighbor to the west, we have together planted several hundred trees in the past several years..and generally remove only dead or dying trees ..and always leave some for the woodpeckers and critters standing deadwood.
thanks Pam..just finished reading it this morning..I enjoyed it..hard to put down. It wasn't exactly a permie book but he does talk about permaculture in the book and also organic, biodynamic, french intensive..etc..explores the ups and downs of all the different types of gardens and shows a lot of test results and offers a great number of book references.
I did take several notes and found that I learned a few new things. Gave a lot of good information on plants to use as mulch and dynamic accumulators (other books do also)..
I suggest borrowing it from the libraray..was disappointed that the color photos were haveing to be gotten online ..not printed in book...i haven't bothered to look them up yet..but will.
One thing he mentioned that our neighbor could have used to save a tree that they lost....plant the tree with the graft curve into the wind..to prevent the weight of the fruit breaking the tree (our neighbors lost a fully loaded baby apple tree at the graft..probably planted wrong..) I'll make sure I do that with the half dozen baby fruit trees coming in 2 weeks.
I just finished reading Designing and maintaining your edible landscape naturally..by Rober Kourk...would recommend borrowing it from a library. Had pneumonia while I was reading it so my copy will be germy..take precautions..tee hee.
I am just about to begin another David Holmgrem Permie book..Permaculture : Principles and Pathways beyond sustainability next..Hope it isn't just a repeat of all the other permie books..looking for some new info here.
still have about 100 books on my winter reading list..and winter is holding out for me here..snow the last few days..rain the next few and then more snow..so I guess I'll get a few more books read before winter ends..not bad with my late start..but have a list ready for next year.
Just finished reading Designing and maintaining your edible landscape naturally..by Rober Kourik..
It was a good and informative book, semi-permaculturistically written but encompasses many theories. I got some notes and learned a few things..he knocks down a lot of previously touted ideas with some testing..helpful..and even has a few recipes at the end.
Will find myself trying a few things differently after reading this book, and have some further ideas on what plants to cut down for mulch this year.
I highly recommend borrowing a copy from the libraray..as there isn't enough that you would want to save beyond notes that you couldn't scan...don't get my library copy though as I had pneumonia when I was reading it and it might have a few lingering germs..sorry to the next reader.
could it be not really such a high water table but ground water from snow melt still seeping in? Well anyway I have a severely high water table here in Michigan and I have lots of apple trees doing great, one with water around it's feet a lot as it is on the bank/outlet of a pond..and it does fine..I have apples in clay and they do find as well.
I would however build up a bit to raise them up..but cause the roots spread out into the first top 2' of soil..you are likely ok to just plant them a bit high and then fill in over the roots to the proper planting depth ..making a shallow dish around the tree to hold in some moisture the first year and mulching well..
I would suggest that you put a little forest soil around them to innoculate them with some fungal soil..and maybe mix in a little bit of wood chips into the mulch over them to enhance the fungal soil as well.
Likely the spring water table is much higher than it will be later on in the year and they should be fine.
This weekend I read Food not Lawns...it had some good information in it but it was geared more toward "groups" and "politics" but I did get some good info out of it.
This week I read The once and future forest...this was a very informative book but was geared a bit more toward larger forest reforestataion that I'm dealing with and a lot more toward the native/non native/ discussion which I didn't learn much from. There was some good information though that I found helpful, and will use this spring. There were some really good chapters and gave me a little information that will be helpful with my property and my food forests..but it didn't really mention hardly any food plants ..other than nuts and a few things..so it wasn't geared toward a food forest at all.
But that said, there is a lot of great information in it..a lot of which I have already learned from other books but bears repeating.
recommend both from a libraray but wouldn't put $ into them
A very interesting book, kinda goes against some other thins I have read but I did find it very interesting and found some helpful information. Much of it was on large scale reforestation which was interesting but not helpful to me with only 10 acres here..but I did get some great ideas in the areas that dealt with some things more on my scale.
I highly recommend the book, it also can give you ideas in establishing a food or edible forest, however, it is definately not a food forest book...no real mention of any real food producing plants other than nuts.
Well I just finished reading this book, from a lending library. The beginning part of the book was very good and very helpful..however..it got into the community/group stuff after that which I have no interest in..so I skipped a lot of the end of the book.
I am not a design specialist and my garden is in zone 4, not 3, so some of the plants would NOT be hardy there (some are marginally hardy here) but do check out my blog, it might give you a few ideas..link below.
i just planted my first 5' tall medlar tree last year from a mail order co..and it had it's first fruit its first year..i was so surprised. I let the fruit "rot" on the tree cause i wanted it for the seeds to try to plant more this year (not sure how they'll do)..will see I guess
if you aren't planning on burning it for firewood you can use it for mushrooms or for deadwood around plants, esp baby trees..great for holding in moisture and protection
small wood piles here and there in the garden are wonderful for hiding places and homes for a lot of small animal life and sunning areas for others..
if you are worried about what to grow near walnuts here is an article that might help you
Black Walnut Toxicity to Plants, Humans and Horses
HYG-1148-93
Richard C. Funt
Jane Martin
The roots of Black Walnut (Juglans nigra L.) and Butternut (Juglans cinerea L.) produce a substance known as juglone (5-hydroxy-alphanapthaquinone). Persian (English or Carpathian) walnut trees are sometimes grafted onto black walnut rootstocks. Many plants such as tomato, potato, blackberry, blueberry, azalea, mountain laurel, rhododendron, red pine and apple may be injured or killed within one to two months of growth within the root zone of these trees. The toxic zone from a mature tree occurs on average in a 50 to 60 foot radius from the trunk, but can be up to 80 feet. The area affected extends outward each year as a tree enlarges. Young trees two to eight feet high can have a root diameter twice the height of the top of the tree, with susceptible plants dead within the root zone and dying at the margins.
Not all plants are sensitive to juglone. Many trees, vines, shrubs, groundcovers, annuals and perennials will grow in close proximity to a walnut tree. Certain cultivars of "resistant" species are reported to do poorly. Black walnut has been recommended for pastures on hillsides in the Ohio Valley and Appalachian mountain regions. Trees hold the soil, prevent erosion and provide shade for cattle. The beneficial effect of black walnut on pastures in encouraging the growth of Kentucky bluegrass (Poa pratensis L.) and other grasses appears to be valid as long as there is sufficient sunlight and water.
Gardeners should carefully consider the planting site for black walnut, butternut, or persian walnut seedlings grafted to black walnut rootstock, if other garden or landscape plants are to be grown within the root zone of mature trees. Persian walnut seedlings or trees grafted onto Persian walnut rootstocks do not appear to have a toxic effect on other plants.
Horses may be affected by black walnut chips or sawdust when they are used for bedding material. Close association with walnut trees while pollen is being shed (typically in May) also produce allergic symptoms in both horses and humans. The juglone toxin occurs in the leaves, bark and wood of walnut, but these contain lower concentrations than in the roots. Juglone is poorly soluble in water and does not move very far in the soil.
Walnut leaves can be composted because the toxin breaks down when exposed to air, water and bacteria. The toxic effect can be degraded in two to four weeks. In soil, breakdown may take up to two months. Black walnut leaves may be composted separately, and the finished compost tested for toxicity by planting tomato seedlings in it. Sawdust mulch, fresh sawdust or chips from street tree prunings from black walnut are not suggested for plants sensitive to juglone, such as blueberry or other plants that are sensitive to juglone. However, composting of bark for a minimum of six months provides a safe mulch even for plants sensitive to juglone.
Plants Observed Growing Under or Near Black Walnut*
Trees
Japanese Maples, Acer palmatum and its cultivars
Southern Catalpa, Catalpa bignonioides
Eastern Redbud, Cercis canadensis
Canadian Hemlock, Tsuga canadensis
Vines and Shrubs
Clematis 'Red Cardinal'
February Daphne, Daphne mezereum
Euonymus species
Weeping Forsythia, Forsythia suspensa
Rose of Sharon, Hibiscus syriacus
Tartarian Honeysuckle, Lonicera tatarica, and most other Lonicera species
Virginia Creeper, Parthenocissus quinquefolia
** Pinxterbloom, Rhododendron periclymenoides
**'Gibraltar' and 'Balzac', Rhododendron Exbury hybrids
Multiflora Rose, Rosa multiflora
Black Raspberry, Rubus occidentalis
Arborvitaes, Thuja species
** Koreanspice Viburnum, Viburnum carlesii, and most other Viburnum species
Annuals
Pot-marigold, Calendula officinalis 'Nonstop'
Begonia, fibrous cultivars
Morning Glory, Ipomoea 'Heavenly Blue'
Pansy Viola
Zinnia species
Vegetables
Squashes, Melons, Beans, Carrots, Corn
Fruit Trees
Peach, Nectarine, Cherry, Plum
Prunus species Pear-Pyrus species
Herbaceous Perennials
Bugleweed, Ajuga reptans
Hollyhock, Alcea rosea
American Wood Anemone, Anemone quinquefolia
Jack-in-the-Pulpit, Arisaema triphyllum
European Wild Ginger, Asarum europaeum
Astilbe species
Bellflower, Campanula latifolia
**Chrysanthemum species (some)
Glory-of-the-Snow, Chionodoxa luciliae
Spring Beauty, Claytonia virginica
Crocus species
Dutchman's Breeches, Dicentra cucullaria
Leopard's-Bane, Doronicum species
Crested Wood Fern, Dryopteris cristata
Spanish Bluebell, Endymion hispanicus
Winter Aconite, Eranthis hyemalis
Snowdrop, Galanthus nivalis
Sweet Woodruff, Galium odoratum
Herb Robert, Geranium robertianum
Cranesbill, Geranium sanguineum
Grasses (most) Gramineae family
Jerusalem Artichoke, Helianthus tuberosus
Common Daylily, Hemerocallis 'Pluie de Feu'
Coral Bells, Heuchera x brizoides
Orange Hawkweed, Hieracium aurantiacum
Plantain-lily, Hosta fortunei 'Glauca'
Hosta lancifolia
Hosta marginata
Hosta undulata 'Variegata'
Common Hyacinth, Hyacinthus Orientalis 'City of Haarlem'
Virginia Waterleaf, Hydrophyllum virginianum
Siberian Iris, Iris sibirica
Balm, Monarda didyma
Wild Bergamot, M. fistulosa
Grape Hyacinth, Muscari botryoides
Sweet Cicely, Myrrhis odorata 'Yellow Cheerfulness,' 'Geranium,' 'Tete a Tete,' 'Sundial,' and 'February Gold'
Sundrops, Oenothera fruticosa
Senstitive Fern, Onoclea sensibilis
Cinnamon Fern, Osmunda cinnamomea
Peony, **Paeonia species (some)
Summer Phlox, Phlox paniculata
Mayapple, Podophyllum peltatum
Jacob's-Ladder, Polemonium reptans
Great Solomon's-Seal, Polygonatum commutatum
Polyanthus Primrose, Primula x polyantha
Lungwort, Pulmonaria species
Bloodroot, Sanguinaria canadensis
Siberian Squill, Scilla sibirica
Goldmoss Stonecrop, Sedum acre
Showy Sedum, Sedum spectabile
Lamb's-Ear, Stachys byzantina
Spiderwort, Tradescantia virginiana
Nodding Trillium, Trillium cernuum
White Wake-Robin, Trillium grandiflorum
Tulipa Darwin 'White Valcano' and 'Cum Laude,' Parrot 'Blue Parrot,' Greigii 'Toronto'
Big Merrybells, Uvularia grandiflora
Canada Violet, Viola canadensis
Horned Violet, Viola cornuta
Woolly Blue Violet, Viola sororia
*These are based upon observations and not from clinical tests.
**Cultivars of some species may do poorly.
Plants That Do Not Grow Within 50 Feet of Drip Line of Black Walnut
Herbaceous Perennials
Colorado Columbine, Aquilegia caerulea
Wild Columbine, Aquilegia canadensis
Asparagus, Asparagus offinalis
*Chrysanthemum Chrysanthumum species (some)
Baptisia australis
Hydrangea species
Lilies, Lilium species (particularly the Asian hybrids)
Alfalfa, Medicago sativa
Buttercup, Narcissus 'John Evelyn,' 'Unsurpassable' 'King Alfred' and 'Ice Follies'
Peonies, *Paeonia species (some)
Rhubarb, Rheum rhabarbarum
Trees
Silver Maple, Acer saccharinum
European Alder, Alnus glutinosa
White Birches, Betula species
Northern Hackberry, Celtis occidentalis
Apples and Crabapples, Malus species
Norway Spruce, Picea abies
Mugo Pine, Pinus mugo
Red Pine, Pinus resinosa
Eastern White Pine, Pinus strobus
Basswood, Tilia heterophylla
Shrubs
Red Chokeberry, Aronia arbutifolia
Hydrangea species
Mountain Laurels, Kalmia species
Privet, Ligustrum species
Amur Honeysuckle, Lonicera maackii
Brush Cinquefoil, Potentilla species
Rhododendrons and Azaleas, **Rhododendron species (most)
Blackberry, Rubus allegheniensis
Lilacs, Syringa species and cultivars
Yew, Taxus species
Blueberry, Vaccinium corymbosum
*Viburnum plicatum tomentosum 'Mariesii'
Annuals and Vegetables Transplants
Cabbage, Brassica oleracea capitata
Peppers, Capsicum species (some)
Tomatoes, Lycopersicon esculentum
Flowering Tobacco, Nicotiana alata
Petunia species and cultivars
Eggplant, Solanum melongena
Potato, Solanum tuberosum
double-flowered cole vegetables
*Cultivars of some species may survive but will do poorly.
The authors express their appreciation to Drs. M. Scott Biggs, Department of Horticulture and Crop Science, and Harry Hoitink, Department of Plant Pathology, for their review and additional comments.
All educational programs conducted by Ohio State University Extension are available to clientele on a nondiscriminatory basis without regard to race, color, creed, religion, sexual orientation, national origin, gender, age, disability or Vietnam-era veteran status.
Keith L. Smith, Associate Vice President for Ag. Adm. and Director, OSU Extension.
looks similar to the mallow we have..but not exactly..but there are several types of mallow..the one that we have that has a super deep taproot goes all the way to middle earth.
it grows fairly tall and seeds prolifically everywhere..opportunistic. But yes it is edible the leaves, flowers and the "cheese wheels"as was mentioned above while sitll green..also the deer totally love it so it is probably great forage..
don't plant it where you don't want something taking over..and it WILL withstand some shade also
have read about 8 or 10 books this month, and most of them were not worth mentioning on here..I did enjoy The resilient Garden by Carol Deppe..re read again Edible forest Gardens volume 1 and 2, and prefer volume 1 much over volume 2 which i was again falling asleep reading and ended up skipping over information not relative to my level of experience any longer..
Read Palms won't grow here ..didn't like it..re read a bunch of Bill Mollisons and Dave Holmgrens books and have 2 or 3 more on order at the library..love their books.
have several of the above books (in the list) on order from the library..hope to get them soon.
I hate to say it but a lot of the books on this list are available as free downloads if you google them with the letters pdf behind them..but I'm not sure what ones have been approved for pdf by their authors and publishers so I hate to encourage people to do something illegal or immoral..but I'll admit I have read about a dozen or so books this last month free online..myself..but use your library otherwise.
there are also a lot of really good reading pamphlets you can download on pdf..that are legit todownload..some of my google searches were edible garden pdf, forest garden pdf..etc...comes up with a lot of good reading materials
When I was getting books from the library I wanted Carol Deppes book the Resilient gardener..and accidentally was given the otehr one, the weather resilient gardener..it was really not a very good book, barley mentioned food crops at all and basicallly was for complete beginners that know nothing about gardens..make sure you get the right book.
I have just read both of these books for the second time...and highly recommend them. However, if you can only afford ONE volume buy volume one..it is by far the best of the two especially if you are somewhat experienced..as Volume 2 is more for the true beginner or those just starting a new garden.
After reading volume 1 again for the second time I still learned a few new things I either didn't notice last time I read it or I had already forgotten..great info in that volume.
I didn't realize you could contact her to order her seeds, I just sent her off an email. thanks. I want to try the 3 squashes she has listed and the Hanna Popbeans.
I got it from the library on Friday and am about 1/2 way through reading it, it is a really good book but definately NOT Permaculture. I guess by now experienced permies can take the good and leave the bad behind.
there is a book with a similar title that is definately NOT worth getting..called..The Weather Resilient Garden..Got that one too and it is really a boring book..took it back already.
I recommend that people read the Carol Deppe book with an open mind and realize that her gardening practices are NOT aligned with Permaculture in any way..but that she has good advice beyond that.
Also you have to really read it ..as some people seem to think that she only uses the 5 basic foods, but she talks about all the other foods she grows too, like brassicas, greens, tomatoes, etc....but those 5 are her MAIN STAPLES..a lot of what she says makes good sense..I took a lot of notes.
