Hi permie friends,
I'm taking an online permaculture course. They have us reading a Bill Mollison pamphlet called PERMACULTURE TECHNIQUES BY BILL MOLLISON Pamphlet IX in the Permaculture Design Course Series. In it, he states,
Now what you do is set up proper,
permanent, well-designed small systems
for each plant you are going to
grow. If you are going to grow cucumbers,
you make these holes, put
up a wire mesh cylinder, about four
feet high, and it's permanent, and you
always grow your cucumbers there.
You work all this out. In the general
garden, you do a sort of spot rotation.
Wherever you are manuring, as in cucumbers,
potatoes, and things like
your asparagus bed, you never rotate.
For tomatoes, rotation is disadvantageous.
Tomatoes grow better on the
same spot. So you set up a permanent
tomato bed. You treat each vegetable
as a design problem.
In any community situation, it is a
Now, this is contrary to everything I have ever been taught about gardening! Won't pathogens and pests build up if you keep the same plants in the same place year after year? And won't those plants deplete the soil of certain nutrients? I am confused.
paul wheaton wrote:The time has come for me to more formally define this. I have eluded to this rough idea in the past with some numbers I pulled out of my butt. I now flush those numbers and clearly define these new numbers.
level 3: Pooless.
I spend an awful lot of money on toilet paper, because my bf has IBD. So I'm really interested in how one achieves poo-lessness.
And finally, my last alpaca/wool poncho. Knit in two rectangles sewn together. Years old, worn a lot, never washed. I have another poncho, but it has a synthetic trim on it that looks like fur.
Here's a hand-knitted "boat hat" made of pure alpaca. The ear flaps protect your ears from wind, and there's a ping-pong ball in the pompom. If it falls overbaord, the hat will float!
This is an alpaca/wool vest I knitted in a diamond quilt pattern. I wear it all the time, and I've had it for years. I wash it in the machine, but let it air dry. It does have a zipper, so I don't know if that disqualifies it. I made a matching hat.
Oooo, a contest!
I have lots of clothes that I made myself that I wear all the time. This is my favorite: It's knitted it from an alpaca/wool blend yarn in an offset gore, full circle poncho pattern. I've worn this in 15* weather over a cashmere sweater, wool skirt and silk slip, and not been at all cold. I made it years ago, use it every winter/spring, and I don't think I've ever washed it. Best of all, since it is a full circle, it can be used as an emergency blanket!
I have read similar description about urine in new and old text...If I may share, I believe from reading other text and direct experience this is a "misnomer" about urine for the most part as it applies to textiles, and its "uric acid" application as a cleaning agent.
Hi Jay C. White Cloud. I think really in the old days urine was used for cleaning wool. There is a town in the Netherlands where the inhabitants were called (translated) 'jar pissers'. The urine was collected for use in the fabrication of wool fabrics. But maybe it wasn't the fat wool right from the sheep, but the spun or woven wool.
Urine was used, but not fresh urine. It was allowed to stand and sort of "ferment" (I don't know the right word) until it degraded intostinky ammonia. That's why it cleans the grease out of wool so well. You can't just pee on your wool and it's clean. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking because something is "natural", it's not harsh.
First time in 50 years, I have an ear infection. I went to the nurse, and she gave me zithromax, which is the only thing I can take because I'm allergic to most everything else. 48 hours, still all clogged up. I'm making some garlic/olive oil infusion. It's steeping in my warm oven right now. I also ate some raw garlic. Not sure what else I can do. Any ideas? I don't really have much pain, but my ears are full and I can't hear well. Plus, I feel really crappy and my sinuses hurt. Oh, and I've been doing the neti pot thing.
Where did you move from to Ark.? Was it a warmer/milder climate?
I should have been clearer...the 'major move' part was in mindset...going from forty acres and a large house to a small town.
The actual move was less than fifty miles.
I think as we grow older being near family becomes a more important reason to move.
Kate Muller wrote: "My health is fairly good, altho I am incapable of heavy work due to Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (I have weak joints/collegen that makes me a little delicate)."
The joys of being a zebra....
I am in the same boat and NH is easier after I had my knees replaced at age 39 but the cold damp winters hurt. Hopefully your EDS won't make aging harder but I understand the need for good medical care. I am in NH and I am still looking for a specialist.
My sister has major problems with EDS and moved to Arizona a few years ago. Not only does she and her boys breathe easier but her pain levels are much lower. While it is not the idea place to garden it may make the day to day life easier. It also has medical specialists that treat EDS which is not always easy to find.
John Hopkins in Baltimore has Doctors who know EDS and the Delmarva Peninsula is an easy place to grow stuff.
The Mayo Clinic unfortunately is also located in an area with cold nasty winters but they also have great EDS care.
Once you find your patch of earth to dig in I recommend knee high raised beds, light weight tools with long handles, and sturdy friends to move the heavy stuff.
Wow, I never thought I'd find another zebra on here! Who'd a thunk it? I thought I was the only rubber woman crazy enough to want to be a farmer, LOL.
My sister on Long Island had both knees replaced a few years ago. She's 6 years older than I am, and she has to wear braces on her ankles. She's always in pain. I'm lucky, I guess. I keep my weight way down (she's extremely overweight), and I walk and ride a bike for a lot of errands (at least I did until my accident), and that helps a lot. So far, I've been able to avoid the secondary arthritis. But I recently tripped over a small rock while walking, and I fell on my own foot and tore it in half. I had to have it rebuilt and fused, and I'm still in PT relearning how to walk. It's been hard. I spent 12 weeks casted and in bed. I also have blown a few discs in my lower back, and sometimes my hands really hurt. My PT told me that anyone else (non-EDSer) who fell like that would have just fractured their big toe.
Where in AZ does your sis live? I don't like Phoenix, but I like Tucson. Having lived in CA for 32 years, which is already a semi-desert climate, it would probably be easier for me to adapt to real desert gardening than cold climate, wet, humid gardening. The problems with Tucson are that if you live in the inner city, where you can walk to stuff (or ride a bike), you have a lot of crime. If you're outside of town, you absolutely need a car, and it has to be dependable, not like my 45 y/o VW.
Where did you move from to Ark.? Was it a warmer/milder climate?
I should have been clearer...the 'major move' part was in mindset...going from forty acres and a large house to a small town.
The actual move was less than fifty miles.
I think as we grow older being near family becomes a more important reason to move.
Sharon Hilchie wrote:To me it seems highly preferable to move on your own time schedule instead of being forced to do so when something outside your control changes. So I'd say moving now sounds advisable, while it's still your choice.
Do you have a latitude you don't want to be above? Or maybe a minimum winter solstice day length? That might help with the suggestions about where to move.
I'm not sure latitude is so much a problem as cloud cover. I think any latitude in the continental US would be fine.
Yes, for us anyway it was a major move just last fall when we both turned 65...probably one of our better decisions.
What I'd like is a small house with a bit of land, maybe half an acre, where I could have a big garden and some chickens and poultry. A place I wouldn't be absolutely dependent on a car
We looked for much the same...we found a small sweet house on just less than an acre in a small town that still allows chickens and livestock within the city limits. Our son and family live in this town and that was a big part of our decision...we can walk to the Post Office, the bakery and to see friends....very happy here.
I love your idea...and 56yrs doesn't sound at all like a 'late age'
Where did you move from to Ark.? Was it a warmer/milder climate?
OK, here I am. I'm seriously considering moving away from San Francisco. I've been here 32 years, and I'm almost 56. Reasons: I'm stuck in a tiny apartment with no yard. Can't afford to rent a different apartment or house because the rents are astronomical. I have rent control where I am, altho if the landlady dies or sells, I could possibly be evicted under the Ellis act. Then I'd really be up $#!+'$ Creek. I have a small plot at a community garden, which is what has kept me somewhat sane this long. I like California, but any place I could afford would be really remote. I'm not young, and being that far from decent medical care is scary. I recently had a bad accident with my foot, and it really impressed upon me the need to be near good health care.
Ideally, I'd like to move a bit out into the country. Some place like the outskirts of Santa Rosa/Petaluma. But again, I can't afford it. I'm still considering moving down to the desert, around Joshua Tree. I have friends there. But the lack of water is frightening, and I hear health care is not good down there. I also like Tucson, but I hear the crime is bad there.
So I've been looking at moving back east, I'm originally from NYC, and my family is all still in the NY area. I'm looking at western Mass. It's really cheap there, and I like that they have real towns, not just strung out strip malls along the highway. I'd like to not have to be car dependent. I just don't know if I could handle those winters anymore. It's not so much the cold, as the gloom and length of the season. That's why I've discounted moving to Oregon or Washington. I really don't know what to do. I just feel like if I don't do something soon, it will be too late for me age wise. So I'm looking for advice here. Anyone do such a major move at such a late age? My health is fairly good, altho I am incapable of heavy work due to Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (I have weak joints/collegen that makes me a little delicate). So I'm open to ideas and suggestions as to where to go, and whether it's even a good idea. What I'd like is a small house with a bit of land, maybe half an acre, where I could have a big garden and some chickens and poultry. A place I wouldn't be absolutely dependent on a car, altho I do drive and have a (very old) car. I'm not looking for isolation.
paul wheaton wrote:Well then, I guess you're right, it doesn't really fit anywhere else so, therefore, it goes into the forum that is for all the other things that don't fit anywhere else... Meaningless drivel.
paul wheaton wrote:Well then, I guess you're right, it doesn't really fit anywhere else so, therefore, it goes into the forum that is for all the other things that don't fit anywhere else... Meaningless drivel.
Jay Grace wrote:what did the husk look like? Did you pull it from the tree? Was it still green? Was the husk round or triangular?
what was the shape of the leaves?
Here's a picture of an unopened husk. Seemed pretty round to me. This one is greenish, but I saw some on the tree that had already opened, and also had very small nuts. I put my finger in so you can see size.
Hi All,
I found a small chestnut tree growing in the park! More of a bush than a tree. I noticed it only because it had burrs on it. I took a few burrs home, and they had nuts, but very small and not filled out. What would cause this?
Hi garden friends,
I have a small, raised garden plot (4' x 9') at a community garden here in San Francisco, CA, USA. The native soil is almost pure sand, as this whole neighborhood was sand dunes until just after WWII, when it was "developed". I've had the same plot for at least 10 years, and have added manure and compost, etc. In January, 2013, I had to dig the whole thing out to redo the wire lining, because the old one had rusted out and the gophers were eating everything. I decided to try a sort of no-dig, permaculture, fruit/vegetable guild at that time, as an experiment.
I put in scarlet runner beans, chayote, a dwarf blueberry, alpine strawberries as a ground cover, walking onions, garlic, a small herb plot in the center with oregano, sage, thyme, lemon balm, stevia, a prickly pear, and feverfew. I had a few annuals, like kale, which in this climate, live at least 2 years; I only just pulled them out this month.
The chayote took over, and I think it's sucking up all the moisture in the plot. I may take it out this winter. It shaded the beans to the extent that they produced very little, when they usually produce a lot. The walking onions just sort of disappeared; I don't know what happened to them. Everything else did well.
I haven't dug the soil at all in the past 2.5 years, except very minimally to plant a seed or small plant. I do add a LOT of compost whenever I can get, which really gets sucked right into the ground.
So here's what I've observed. The soil is quite compacted and root filled. I have a lot of wine bottles that I use for watering (necks stuck in the ground). It can be almost impossible to get them into the ground in a new hole. I recently dug up a few of the strawberries, as I wanted to move them to a different spot. When I moved them, I forked up the soil in that area to plant them. I noticed that after forking up the soil, the garlic, which had been sitting for months doing nothing, really shot up and grew a lot. The strawberry divides I planted also have grown well and quickly, where as the ones I transplanted to the no till area are quite small and struggling. It's now easy to stick a wine bottle neck into the ground in the tilled area.
So, is no till such a good idea? I'm beginning to wonder. Thoughts?
Steve Farmer wrote:Abe, what about other succulents. Aloe vera seems equally drought tolerant, self propagates by suckers, and has medicinal uses. Not as effective as windbreak or barrier as doesn't grow so tall or spiky, but is much much easier to handle. Agaves?
I'm putting aloes, prickly pears and soon agaves in at my patch where I'm planting trees. Also some other thing (pictured) that looks like a relative of the aloe but is absolutely rampant at propagating itself in the garden. Haen't yet observed how well it handles drought but I suspect it will be pretty good. For me without expert knowledge it's a case of throwing lots of mud and seeing what sticks.
Steve, that's Kalanchoe daigremontiana, Mother of Thousands. It's a neat plant. I grew it outside once here in San Francisco, California. It gets about 2 feet tall, and has small flowers.
Alison Sargent wrote:Does anyone know how it is used as a plant dye?
Thanks!
Are you talking about cochineal, the red dye that was used to color the coats of the British army? That is actually made from a scale insect that lives on the prickly pear cactus. That is why the cactus was brought back to Europe and the Middle East. They wanted to grow it for the dye, which was very expensive. However, the plants escaped and are now a pest in many areas.
Abe Connally wrote:The mighty prickly pear. Great for vegetable, fruit, dyes, living predator fences, erosion control, medicine and drought insurance. Talk about stacking functions!
Oh Abe, you are living my dream---the cactus farm/winery! Funny you should post this today, I just broke out my first bottle of last year's wine:
Bryant RedHawk wrote:Lori, very nice garden there. One way to use cardboard that I noticed no one mentioned is to literally plant it vertically, this creates a wall for holding water back when done in a drier area and works pretty well in sandy soil like you have there.
You might be able to do a line below your garden or do a couple to three above the garden on the slope, the above the garden method will create mini water plumes that will feed the garden from above.
If you did one below the garden it would act more like a dam and hold water for the garden at least until the sand below sucked it all away. I would go for the above the garden type since any water collected by the cardboard would stick around longer.
I notice that the sand has covered the sidewalk that is there, so as a public service, if you swept that sand back off the sidewalk and put in a cardboard barrier to help keep the sidewalk clearer of sand, you probably would not receive any reprimands from the city.
That "barrier" could go deep and provide a dam effect below the garden. If the city did say anything, cardboard is biodegradable and usually crushes underfoot easily so it is not as much a hazard as concrete.
Thanks! Not sure I follow you about the cardboard. Do you mean bury it like an underground wall? Like basement wall? How deep? More than a few inches would mean a lot of digging.
Cristo Balete wrote:Lori, yeah, it may seem ignored, but legally it belongs to some agency that has the obligation to keep it free and clear of unexpected tripping hazards. Those paths show it's a heavily traversed area. People in a city aren't expecting 30 pine cones where they are used to walking, or on crutches, or biking, or disembarking from parked cars, sometimes with little kids running around, and in the dark it becomes something really unexpected.
Well, along with the thrills, the dangers of guerrilla gardening are many and varied It's one reason I haven't put much money into it, besides the fact that I have no money, ha ha ha. Another reason was as a sort of a test, to see how well the plants would do, and if they would hold up and stay unmolested.
That's why up the hillside, closer to those trees your plants would be out of the way, but still noticeable, and whatever you plant up there stands a chance of staying.
Yes, it was always my plan to expand up there, if the small garden did well.
A really good message to everyone who passes by, and the agency that owns that land, would be a great display of natives that adapt to the current difficult conditions.
I'm collecting seeds from some lupines that are growing right in the dunes. I also made seed balls out of native seeds, but nothing came up because I did it too late because of the lack of rain. I'll have to try again. I'll try and do cuttings when I can, but I don't get out of the city much.
No, gooseberries are not illegal! They make great pie. Some of them have foliage that smells like sandalwood and citrus. Not sure what kind of native plant you are thinking is illegal?
I didn't know we had native gooseberries. I looked up the one you mentioned, and the fruits are spiny How do you eat those? I remember seeing a notice in a plant catalog under gooseberries, which said it couldn't be imported into CA. So I looked it up, and I found this: "Ribes species are host for White Pine blister rust, which causes few problems for gooseberry, but is lethal for 5-needle pines, including California natives such as Western Pine (Pinus monticola) and Sugar Pine (P. lambertiana). Gooseberries are banned in counties where these pines are grown for lumber. So I guess Frisco is OK.
Do you live where they grow? If so, could you send me a few cuttings?
John Saltveit wrote:Rosemary and winter savory would be good ideas too. Like you said, plant in November and hope they establish by summer.
Rosemary roots easily from cuttings in a glass on your windowsill -- just cut it into 4-to-6 inch chunks and keep the bottom half in water. Once you see substantial root development, plant them in soil. You can get up to 20 or so plants from a generous $2.00 bunch of rosemary at your supermarket or farmers market. I'm told that in climates where they overwinter easily, they can become substantial drought-tolerant bushes. Sadly in my climate they are very iffy about surviving the winter; I am still working on a microclimate that will make one ridiculously happy.
You read my mind! I can get all the cuttings I want for free from the community garden. Hard to find winter savory.
I see you are more in town than I pictured. Looks like there's lots of foot traffic and probably bike traffic coming down that hill onto the street. One thing that's going to happen, I hate to say, there are City street crews who know that area like the back of their hands, and when they see what you are doing they are probably not going to let that triangular section between the two pathways stay. The pinecones make a nice edge, and it looks a little like a memorial for someone, which maybe is why no one is messing with it. But if you build it up with non-native plants, it runs the risk of being something pedestrians and bicyclists could crash into, or trip on the pinecones, then the City would be liable for any injuries. You would faint straight away if you saw the paperwork it takes to plant one plant on a City street, even without a drought.
I've thought of that. The guy that mows has left it alone. Of course, no one has mowed in several months. I've seen the city truck go right by it. On the right side is a paved path. The left side is not a "real" path, just a lazy path. Last I heard, the city pulled the gardener off of this section and hasn't replaced him. They no longer water, either. I haven't seen anyone at all (except the mower) work on that area in several years. I heard a rumor that the city had given it over to the feds, who have no one to care for it at all. Further south along the same street, there are actual raised, concrete rings with similar plantings in the same kind of triangles. That's what gave me the idea.
Is the green grass up on the top of the hill being watered? That might be gathering somewhat around the bases of the cypress trees, and could help support drought-tolerant herbs.
It's not grass, it's iceplant. I bought a little lavender plant to add to the garden, and an aloe vera. I don't mind spending an occasional few dollars on it. Can't spend a lot, tho. I wanted to get a few succulents, but they all had tags saying they had been treated with neonicatoids. I didn't want to buy those because of the bees.
John Saltveit wrote:I would definitely think about autumn olive Eleagnus umbeliffera I think. It is quite drought tolerant, produces yummy and highly nutritious berries, and most people won't know what it is, which is highly desirable in a guerrila garden. In addition, it is not invasive at all in dry summer climates. It will fix nitrogen for your other plants. Once you have started to establish nitrogen fixing and other plants, like autumn olive, the soil will dry up less. Rosemary and winter savory would be good ideas too. Like you said, plant in November and hope they establish by summer.
John S
PDX OR
OK, that's a good idea! I have seaberry plants, too.
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It's one reason I haven't put much money into it, besides the fact that I have no money, ha ha ha. Another reason was as a sort of a test, to see how well the plants would do, and if they would hold up and stay unmolested.
How do you eat those? I remember seeing a notice in a plant catalog under gooseberries, which said it couldn't be imported into CA. So I looked it up, and I found this: "Ribes species are host for White Pine blister rust, which causes few problems for gooseberry, but is lethal for 5-needle pines, including California natives such as Western Pine (Pinus monticola) and Sugar Pine (P. lambertiana). Gooseberries are banned in counties where these pines are grown for lumber. So I guess Frisco is OK.