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Inexpensive Trees

John Polk
steward

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 5837
Location: Moving to: NE Washington USDA zone 5 Western steppes to the Rockies
    
  87
Have you ever been dismayed at tree prices at nurseries? 
I stumbled upon this site:
http://www.arborday.org/Shopping/Trees/Treelist.cfm
and was shocked at their low prices.  Their prices range from $2 to $11, with most being in the $5-7 range.

(Honey Locust $5, Hickory $6, etc &
Check them out if you are thinking of getting some new trees.  Good luck!

EDITed to add:  If you "join' ($10/year) you can get 30-56% off! Plus they give you 10 trees (probably their choice, depending on your zone).
Enjoy.

Jordan Lowery
volunteer

Joined: Sep 26, 2009
Posts: 1527
Location: zone 7
    
  11
actually if you sign up, they give you 10 trees. they give you a few packages to pick from. we ended up with a bunch of useless dogwoods. and it took over 8 months to get out trees. the trees were EXTREMELY small too. some of the dogwoods were no more than 5 inches tall. including roots.

cheap trees are started from seed. seeds are really cheap. i just got a few hundred seeds from the website paul mentioned in a recent podcast. JL hudsons seedsman. and still spent under 20$


The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. - Masanobu Fukuoka
wildeyes McCoy


Joined: Feb 05, 2011
Posts: 56
If you're looking for mass plantings, some of the bigger nurseries may be the way to go. Musser Forests is nice and you can often get trees for about $1 a pop. Well rooted trees too, I might add. The state of NC has nurseries and they sell trees cheap. You can get 1,000 seedlings of all sorts (Locust, Tulip Poplar, Persimmon, Chinese Chestnut, etc.) ready for field plantings for $300 or 100 for $50 (http://www.dfr.state.nc.us/nursery/pdf/Seedling%20Catalog%202010_2011.pdf). Perhaps other states have similar things...
John Polk
steward

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 5837
Location: Moving to: NE Washington USDA zone 5 Western steppes to the Rockies
    
  87
Many states do have nurseries.  Some charge as much as most nurseries, others are quite reasonable.  Some only sell to residents of their state, while others will ship nationwide.

Another good one is Tennessee.  They will ship free (you have to pick them up @ your county extension agent's office), or charge for UPS/fedEx ground shipping.  Their prices are hard to beat:

http://tennessee.gov/agriculture/publications/forestry/seedlingcatalog.pdf
Feral Hatfield


Joined: Aug 07, 2010
Posts: 271
A good resource in Washington:

http://www.forestseedlingnetwork.com/default.aspx

Many of the conservation districts have an annual sale as well.. although they often get their trees from the link in this message.
Philip Freddolino


Joined: Jun 02, 2010
Posts: 53
In my neck of the woods, I've used www.lawyernursery.com as a wholesale source for trees and seeds. There is a $25 min. on seed orders and $200 min. on trees.
Brenda Groth
volunteer

Joined: Feb 01, 2009
Posts: 4432
Location: North Central Michigan
    
    4
i live near state land and we always would walk the land and esp road edges in the spring when they would grade the roads..

we would find seedlings that had been uprooted along the gradings, and we would find groups of seedlings in the state land that were way too overcrowded to grow properly.

we would always take garbage bags or buckets with us and we would remove just a few of the seedlings that were coming up in places where we knew they wouldn't grow..beside a larger tree, in graded road edges so close that they would be cut down as they grew, etc.

we populated our property with hundreds of trees by this manner for free..

also you can research cuttings and look for seeds of larger trees and shrubs and get those for free too, for ornamentals check out cemetaries and take responsible cuttings and gather seeds..etc.


Brenda

Bloom where you are planted.
http://restfultrailsfoodforestgarden.blogspot.com/
Jordan Lowery
volunteer

Joined: Sep 26, 2009
Posts: 1527
Location: zone 7
    
  11
sadly i have read our state canceled the tree reforestation program because of budget cuts.

the good news is you can grow trees for free or very cheap.

take note of the trees growing around you. i had a list of trees i wanted to use for permaculture. the thing was none of the nurseries had or even cared what i wanted. as i got to look around the area it turns out at least 3/4 of the trees i wanted were already growing all over the place, in peoples yards, along side streams, parks, and so on. if you know the proper time to harvest seed or take cuttings you can get more than you need.

Feral Hatfield


Joined: Aug 07, 2010
Posts: 271
I visited an arboretum a couple of years ago during the fall. I was told that anything that had come off of a tree and was on the ground could be removed from the grounds. Removing something from a tree was a $500 fine. Tons and tons of crabapples and there were probably 15 or 20 different varieties of parent trees, there were all sorts of evergreens and cones on the ground as well as ginko, walnuts, etc. Arboretums can be a great source!
Jus sayiin....
Cris Bessette
volunteer

Joined: May 20, 2011
Posts: 649
Location: North Georgia / Appalachian mountains , Zone 8A
    
  26
I planted around 40-50 trees last year, most of them were free.

I grew about 20 American Persimmon trees from seeds from one tree I already had.
I also grew some Bald Cypress trees that I grew from seed I found under a tree at the Louisiana State welcome center.
I also have some Kumquat, Mandarin, Pitanga (Suriname cherry), all grown from seeds from fruit I ate.

I also moved about 6 small Juniper trees out of the woods near my house into my yard and they are growing like crazy.

Rose of Sharon (hibiscus syriacus) are easy as sin to grow. I've literally yanked baby trees out of the ground with my bare hands and stuck them in the ground somewhere else, water them once or twice and 90% will live and grow.

The only trees I have purchased were trees on sale in the fall at garden centers. This year I planted two peach trees that were about 80% off regular price. I got a Quince tree at the same sale for a couple of dollars.

So there are my three methods to get cheap trees: Seeds. Move baby trees. Fall stock sales at garden centers.
The Light


Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Posts: 92
Consider that many of the expensive trees are commercial variants that have been bread for specific characteristics, while trees from many reforestation projects and the Arbor Day Foundation are just mass plantings from seed.  Not that one is better than the other, necessarily, just know the characteristics of each and where you may want to use either.

I bought many bulk trees from the ADF and found them to be fine for general reforestation or for wild animal food, but for food crops, I will spend the extra capital on good quality farm trees. Not hybrids, or genetically engineered ones, just good proven producers for my area. I figure that if I'm going to put the time and effort into tending trees for 4-8 years before they return food, I want to be sure they'll return plenty of high-quality food. 

The other option is to grow your own from seed. You can do quite well going this route, but they will mostly be of the mass planting type, then. Taking cuttings might be better, but it only works with some plants.
Dale Hodgins
pollinator

Joined: Jul 28, 2011
Posts: 3510
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
    
  40
  I agree with TheLight on buying proven fruit tree varieties. If you check out the wild apples growing in parks and ditches you'll soon discover that most of them have undesirable qualities whether it be lackluster flavor, poor production, extremely large or small fruit, or fruit that goes bad quickly. I've stopped at many wild Plum trees only to find that they are either watery and tasteless or sour even when ripe and that the meat sticks stubbornly to the stone. It is very poor economy to produce these fruits from seed since it's a total crapshoot and they will occupy space for quite a while before you realize your folly.

    The fruit varieties we have took hundreds and sometimes thousands of years to develop. Experimentation is fine if you're looking to create a new cultivar but it would be silly to ignore the amazing resource of tried and proven cultivars left to us by generations of other growers.


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Kirk Hutchison


Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 418
Location: Los Angeles, CA
If you buy one good variety of each species and then grow others from seed, you can graft onto them from the tree you bought.


Paleo Gardener Blog
Deb Stephens


Joined: Dec 03, 2011
Posts: 177
Location: SW Missouri
    
    2
If you are anywhere near Missouri, you can order tree bundles for $8 per/25 trees average (there are some slightly higher specialty bundles and some for much less) from the conservation department. We have been getting them annually for years and always have good luck. We have planted several hundred trees and shrubs of many varieties -- including fruit and nut trees like hazelnut, pawpaw, wild plum, black cherry, pecan, black walnut, blackberries, golden currants, etc. Here is the link to the seedling order form and online shopping. You order now, then pay when they arrive, and you get to choose the month you want them in. They ship them right to your door or you can pick them up at the state nurseries. I'm not sure if they ship out of state, but if not, maybe you could have them sent to a local address and pick them up if you live close enough.

http://extra.mdc.mo.gov/cgi-bin/mdcdevpub/apps/seedlings/search.cgi?record=all
Matt Ferrall


Joined: Dec 26, 2008
Posts: 550
Location: Western WA,usda zone 6/7,80inches of rain,250feet elevation
    
    4
I started 400 heartnut trees from seed I got at a U-pick orchard.Actually they were free because they were their yard trees and made a mess which I picked up!.I start most nut trees in 5 gallon pots with forest humus for soil so the cost to me for these trees is $0.I think seedlings are great if you have the space.Ive started 100s of apple trees the same way from feral apples in ditches. Most are usable in some way and since they are free,just plant more and thin out later or graft onto them.Ive never found a feral apple or plum I couldnt enjoy in some form.


There is nothing permanent in a culture dependent on such temporaries as civilization
Carina Robicheaux


Joined: Nov 08, 2011
Posts: 35
Location: Oregon Coast Range zone 8b
I've been known to snitch seed and cuttings when given the opportunity. I have a Loquat cutting I obtained from the landscaping in front of a restaurant rooting right now.
I like proven cultivars of apple trees, and am fortunate to have a neighbor that loves to graft apples. He has several varieties that are proven producers for this area, and is willing to take work trade for some young trees (Gold Rush, Enterprise, Patriot) he also gifted me a big box of sunchokes (2 varieties) some I'm eating, some I'm planting. A neighboring farm has OK'd me taking cuttings from their plants for a few rooted plants in return. In the spring I'll be digging up italian plum and raspberry suckers and taking blueberry, fig and grape cuttings in the summer. I already have a nice pot of strawberries from them.
So neighbors, hobby growers and small farms can also be good resources. Talk to folks at farmers markets to make connections.


You can't fight the waves but you can learn to surf.
Raine Bradford


Joined: Sep 24, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: West Fork, Arkansas
    
    1
Deb Stephens wrote:If you are anywhere near Missouri, you can order tree bundles for $8 per/25 trees average (there are some slightly higher specialty bundles and some for much less) from the conservation department. We have been getting them annually for years and always have good luck. We have planted several hundred trees and shrubs of many varieties -- including fruit and nut trees like hazelnut, pawpaw, wild plum, black cherry, pecan, black walnut, blackberries, golden currants, etc. Here is the link to the seedling order form and online shopping. You order now, then pay when they arrive, and you get to choose the month you want them in. They ship them right to your door or you can pick them up at the state nurseries. I'm not sure if they ship out of state, but if not, maybe you could have them sent to a local address and pick them up if you live close enough.

http://extra.mdc.mo.gov/cgi-bin/mdcdevpub/apps/seedlings/search.cgi?record=all

Thanks Deb! I checked out all the websites mentioned in this thread and this was the best for what I needed. HUGE selection. I live in Arkansas and didn't see any objection to them shipping to me here. I ordered 200 trees and shrubs, 8 different varieties, to plant a deer barrier hedge. I will let you know how this comes out.
Deb Stephens


Joined: Dec 03, 2011
Posts: 177
Location: SW Missouri
    
    2

http://extra.mdc.mo.gov/cgi-bin/mdcdevpub/apps/seedlings/search.cgi?record=all


Thanks Deb! I checked out all the websites mentioned in this thread and this was the best for what I needed. HUGE selection. I live in Arkansas and didn't see any objection to them shipping to me here. I ordered 200 trees and shrubs, 8 different varieties, to plant a deer barrier hedge. I will let you know how this comes out.


You're welcome! I have always found them to be a great resource, and they add new species to the list nearly every year. I will be looking forward to seeing how it works out for you.
S. G. Botsford


Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 62
Trees from reforestation nurseries are often available surplus. They get a contract for 100,000 trees from Weyerhauser, plant 105,000 harvest 103,261. They sell the overruns quite inexpensively. Typically 25 to 85 cents each. I sell bundles of trees to people who need less than full boxes. PM me if you live anywhere near Edmonton Alberta.

Caveats: You have to take a full box -- anywhere from 180 to 500 trees with the people I deal with.

The seedlings are little. Some of the firs are only 2 inches tall.

I grow them on in pots for several years before field planting or selling them to customers.

Almost all willows, and most poplars (not aspen) can be grown from cuttings. Best if you make the cuttings as soon as the snow starts to melt. Keep the just below freezing until the snow is gone. Soak for 3 days and plant. But if you take cuttings as the leaves are breaking you'll still get 75% sprouting.

You can start trees from seed, but it is really a pain. Many have arcane stratefication requirements. (Soak in hot concentrated sulfuric acid for 30 minutes. Soak in running water (2 changes per hour) for 3 days. Keep in damp sand or peatmoss for 3 months at 2 C. NOW you can plant them and expect reasonable sprouting. Easier. Plant in fall in trays. Leave the trays where they are shaded and snow covered. In spring transplant into pots as they pop up.
Theresa Whited


Joined: Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 41
Deb Stephens wrote:If you are anywhere near Missouri, you can order tree bundles for $8 per/25 trees average (there are some slightly higher specialty bundles and some for much less) from the conservation department. We have been getting them annually for years and always have good luck. We have planted several hundred trees and shrubs of many varieties -- including fruit and nut trees like hazelnut, pawpaw, wild plum, black cherry, pecan, black walnut, blackberries, golden currants, etc. Here is the link to the seedling order form and online shopping. You order now, then pay when they arrive, and you get to choose the month you want them in. They ship them right to your door or you can pick them up at the state nurseries. I'm not sure if they ship out of state, but if not, maybe you could have them sent to a local address and pick them up if you live close enough.

http://extra.mdc.mo.gov/cgi-bin/mdcdevpub/apps/seedlings/search.cgi?record=all


Definitely good prices at the MDC website and lots of good information also. They will mail you a free tree scale stick and booklet on how to manage your forest. I own 5 acres in south Missouri, The trees look fairly young but I am concerned because the forest looks somewhat sickly. The larger trees do not look healthy and I'm not an expert but they are not full and healthy they look half dead. I think it maybe a overgrowth issue since I have cleared too many saplings to count. I bet its 95% birch and oak, not much of a variety. The few conifers I have are very small. I believe the previous owners cut good trees for the wrong reasons in bad locations. I also have a problem with vines, the neighbor woman says they're grape vines but she also says they won't kill trees. The vines are so overgrown and annoying that I can barely walk into the tree line with out tripping or getting smacked in the face. When trying to thin the saplings its like one long inconceivable web of vines to cut away from the saplings then cut the sapling and even then you can't pull out the sapling with out cutting more vines. I am trying my best to conserve and I have seen great things done with vines but I can't figure out what type they are. Whats the main difference from pioson ivy and grape vines when there's no greenery like winter? Some are small and stringy and cling to the tree but mostly they grow beside it until they've woven all through out the branches with tendrils that rap the branches and squeeze the life out of the tree. I can see piles of dead trees surrounded by vines. I'm not sure what to do besides go through the forest and cut them out for the rest of my life.
Deb Stephens


Joined: Dec 03, 2011
Posts: 177
Location: SW Missouri
    
    2
Theresa Whited wrote:
Definitely good prices at the MDC website and lots of good information also. They will mail you a free tree scale stick and booklet on how to manage your forest. I own 5 acres in south Missouri, The trees look fairly young but I am concerned because the forest looks somewhat sickly. The larger trees do not look healthy and I'm not an expert but they are not full and healthy they look half dead. I think it maybe a overgrowth issue since I have cleared too many saplings to count. I bet its 95% birch and oak, not much of a variety. The few conifers I have are very small. I believe the previous owners cut good trees for the wrong reasons in bad locations. I also have a problem with vines, the neighbor woman says they're grape vines but she also says they won't kill trees. The vines are so overgrown and annoying that I can barely walk into the tree line with out tripping or getting smacked in the face. When trying to thin the saplings its like one long inconceivable web of vines to cut away from the saplings then cut the sapling and even then you can't pull out the sapling with out cutting more vines. I am trying my best to conserve and I have seen great things done with vines but I can't figure out what type they are. Whats the main difference from pioson ivy and grape vines when there's no greenery like winter? Some are small and stringy and cling to the tree but mostly they grow beside it until they've woven all through out the branches with tendrils that rap the branches and squeeze the life out of the tree. I can see piles of dead trees surrounded by vines. I'm not sure what to do besides go through the forest and cut them out for the rest of my life.


Theresa,

I am wondering if you are confusing birch with hickory. If you only have saplings, and are unfamiliar with tree species, it is possible to mistake the smooth, silvery bark of young hickories for birch. We don't see a whole lot of birch in this area -- except in some river areas. I could be wrong, but Southern Missouri (except the bootheel area) is predominately oak/hickory forest with some maple and mixed hardwoods like elm, ash, walnut interspersed with that most ubiquitous evergreen, red cedar. The only native pine is the short-leaf pine, but it was nearly wiped out during the heyday of railroading when millions of trees were hacked into railroad ties. (The forest service is bringing it back in big, plantation like stands, but natural stands are few and far between around here.)

Anyway... it is hard to know what you are up against without some photos, but your description of the vines sounds a lot more like rattan vine (also called supplejack) than grapes. It is a native species, Berchimia scandens (you can read about it here... http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=BESC) but it is very opportunistic and will quickly move into any area where the mature trees have been removed, allowing a more open canopy. If you had mentioned thorns, I would have thought you were talking about greenbriar -- another real pain in the butt vine around here (though it is edible and very good to eat in salads or cooked like asparagus or green beans).

Unless you are immune to it, I doubt if you are dealing with poison ivy or you would know it by now. The vines cling with millions of tiny rootlets and actually look hairy. Mature grapevines are woody and thick -- only getting more branched and supple as they grow up through the canopy. If it looks like you could swing on it like Tarzan, its probably a grapevine. If it is smooth and mostly green, its likely rattan vine. The only other vine I can think of that grows fairly thickly in this area is Virginia creeper, but it doesn't tend to grow away from trees except down at ground level. It needs support to climb and attaches itself directly to the trunks at the base to climb. It also needs a bit more light than you might find in deep woods. (By the way, a lot of people confuse it with poison ivy, but it has clusters of 5 leaves instead of 3 and once you are used to seeing it, is actually really easy to identify.) If you could post a few photos I could definitely identify what you have, and maybe offer a few suggestions about how to deal with it. These may also help you...

Grape (just one of several species common in this area) - http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=VICI2

Poison ivy - http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=TORA2

Virginia creeper - http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch

Greenbriar (one of many species) - http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=SMGL


If you can't do pictures, can you describe the area where you live a bit better -- as in bottomland, forest, glades, etc. or give a more specific location? (With Google Earth, you can plug in your address or latitude/longitude from your deed, and you can zoom right in to the exact spot, and post a link here if you want to.) Send it in a PM if you don't want it to be public. I promise not to drop in or use the information online.

Matt Smith


Joined: Feb 04, 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Central Ohio, Zone 6A - High water table, heavy clay.
Bought a bunch of "trees" from Arbor Day's store. Most arrived dead, and the few that weren't didn't do too well afterwards. Trees from several other sources planted at the same time in the same manner on the same property did fine.

I appreciate what they're trying to do, but selling and shipping me tiny dead sticks with roots ain't gonna help much of anything.
Theresa Whited


Joined: Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 41
Deb, Here is a pic the small trees a little to the left with the two vines I'm not sure what they are. Then the other is more clearing saplings.


[Thumbnail for 12.25.12 053.jpg]

[Thumbnail for 12.25.12 033.jpg]

Deb Stephens


Joined: Dec 03, 2011
Posts: 177
Location: SW Missouri
    
    2
Theresa,

The photos are wide focus and kind of washed out, so its hard to make out much, but in the top photo I am seeing a lot of shagbark and other hickories (as well as oak), and I think there may even be a maple or two in there (hard to tell from this photo) but no birch. The vines are too indistinct to identify positively, but I'd guess they are probably grapes just by the way they seem to start well away from the tree yet have enough strength to reach out and climb from that position. (Although rattan vine will do that too, your woods look like they are too deep and far away from glades or open areas to be good habitat for rattan vine. Great for grape vines though.) In the bottom photo though, I would definitely say you had grapevines. They are pretty rough -- like tree bark, so yeah, grapevines for sure.

You seem to have quite a few sapling pines in there as well, and I am pretty sure they are short-leaf (the native species) because they show irregular growth. Most of the more common non-native pines have branches that radiate out from the central trunk like ribs on an umbrella. Short-leaf produces random brances like most deciduous trees. Those smooth trunked gray saplings could be any of a variety of young trees in this area. Its amazing how much a young oak, maple or ash, etc. can look like a serviceberry or redbud untill they get to about 3" in diameter and the bark begins to roughen up and take on the beginnings of the mature pattern. Young elms and hickories are usually easier to identify because the way they branch is really distinctive.

It looks like you have either north facing or east facing property there -- and a close water source (maybe seasonal, but it looks like there is water somewhere nearby). Is that correct or am I reading too much into it?

Theresa Whited


Joined: Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 41
Deb Stephens wrote:Theresa,

The photos are wide focus and kind of washed out, so its hard to make out much, but in the top photo I am seeing a lot of shagbark and other hickories (as well as oak), and I think there may even be a maple or two in there (hard to tell from this photo) but no birch. The vines are too indistinct to identify positively, but I'd guess they are probably grapes just by the way they seem to start well away from the tree yet have enough strength to reach out and climb from that position. (Although rattan vine will do that too, your woods look like they are too deep and far away from glades or open areas to be good habitat for rattan vine. Great for grape vines though.) In the bottom photo though, I would definitely say you had grapevines. They are pretty rough -- like tree bark, so yeah, grapevines for sure.

You seem to have quite a few sapling pines in there as well, and I am pretty sure they are short-leaf (the native species) because they show irregular growth. Most of the more common non-native pines have branches that radiate out from the central trunk like ribs on an umbrella. Short-leaf produces random brances like most deciduous trees. Those smooth trunked gray saplings could be any of a variety of young trees in this area. Its amazing how much a young oak, maple or ash, etc. can look like a serviceberry or redbud untill they get to about 3" in diameter and the bark begins to roughen up and take on the beginnings of the mature pattern. Young elms and hickories are usually easier to identify because the way they branch is really distinctive.

It looks like you have either north facing or east facing property there -- and a close water source (maybe seasonal, but it looks like there is water somewhere nearby). Is that correct or am I reading too much into it?



That's amazing I don't even know what to say. It is north slope and there is spring www.ibuildwithmud.wordpress.com, http://www.flickr.com/photos/75711609@N06/?saved=1. I grew up 10 minutes from downtown St. Louis so I am a city girl (or my teenagers call me ghetto ha) I spent my summers on a family farm here in Franklin Co, MO and my aunts farm in Monitcello IL. I am not very familiar with forestry at all and I had to study up on how to situate the cob house for geothermal properties. I know that trees are the best way to up your property value and help the cob house. I am going to check out the ariel view of the property because you may be able to help me figure out where to put the orchard I want. I have 2 cherry trees, and 1 apricot ($12 ea this fall at local nursery)and I'm hoping for decent size pecan trees to start. I have 7, 2 inch cedar saplings I found under a bush (yes I know its not much, but I love them like little pets). I'm also starting a garden and such and its really difficult for me to decide where to put what with the slope and the brush.
Deb Stephens


Joined: Dec 03, 2011
Posts: 177
Location: SW Missouri
    
    2
Not so amazing really. When you have lived in the woods as long as I have, you get a sort of 6th sense about these things. I think you mayhave a cave there too, but you probably don't have a big enough opening to get in it. All that water in your spring is coming from somewhere deeper, and when I look at the photos of your spring on your blog site, it makes me wish I could shrink down to about rabbit size to get in those openings and have a good look. (I love caves!) Do you see any small insect like creatures in the water near the rocks around the spring -- kind of like rolly bugs, only aquatic? Or some that look like tiny shrimps? Those are amphipods and isopods, and would be a good indicator of a cave system. Of course, it still wouldn't mean that you had anything big enough to crawl through down there, but it would show that there was something. I'm betting though, that just by the lay of the land, you may have a relatively large cave underneath. Do any of your neighbors have caves on their land? If so, they could be connected. Missouri is great cave country. What county are you in?

Do send an aerial view of the land if you want -- I would be happy to help. (Oh, and if you like cedars, I can give you all you want -- our place is chock full of them!!!)
Theresa Whited


Joined: Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 41
Grab your shovel Deb because I'm ready to dig. The property is about 20 miles from our famous Meramac caverns http://www.americascave.com/ in Washington county not for from Potosi in Missouri. The state of missouri is on top a large carbonite rock that holds and releases water extremely well. Since the water is pouring out of the rock above the creek bed I believe is a aquifier. When the water lowers in the dry season then that would mean there is some type of empty cavity or cave. I would love to dig up my own "Bear Grills survival cave." Thats funny you said that, everyone else thinks I'm crazy for wanting to dig up my property for caves but Washington County is also top in this state for finding the minerals and quartz that can be worth some funds.

I took a liking the cedars because the smell reminds me of the old farm, they are strong for building, and the sight of a raw cedar in cob home makes my mouth water. I do hope to plant a few pecan trees after visiting "The Farm" in Pheonix AZ (my best friend is here) http://www.thefarmatsouthmountain.com/the-farm-at-south-mountain-morning-glory.php I bought a cook book full of healthy salads and such and my only prob is pecans are so expensive. The MDC has great nut tree package 25 sapling nut trees for $30 but they are maybe 2ft and I would like a couple 7ft to start. I did find a site that is about $27 a 5ft but I am leary of spending over $100 on trees that might not take but then again it maybe worth the risk. If any one has advice on pecan trees that would be great!
Deb Stephens


Joined: Dec 03, 2011
Posts: 177
Location: SW Missouri
    
    2
Theresa Whited wrote:Grab your shovel Deb because I'm ready to dig. The property is about 20 miles from our famous Meramac caverns http://www.americascave.com/ in Washington county not for from Potosi in Missouri. The state of missouri is on top a large carbonite rock that holds and releases water extremely well. Since the water is pouring out of the rock above the creek bed I believe is a aquifier. When the water lowers in the dry season then that would mean there is some type of empty cavity or cave. I would love to dig up my own "Bear Grills survival cave." Thats funny you said that, everyone else thinks I'm crazy for wanting to dig up my property for caves but Washington County is also top in this state for finding the minerals and quartz that can be worth some funds.

I took a liking the cedars because the smell reminds me of the old farm, they are strong for building, and the sight of a raw cedar in cob home makes my mouth water. I do hope to plant a few pecan trees after visiting "The Farm" in Pheonix AZ (my best friend is here) http://www.thefarmatsouthmountain.com/the-farm-at-south-mountain-morning-glory.php I bought a cook book full of healthy salads and such and my only prob is pecans are so expensive. The MDC has great nut tree package 25 sapling nut trees for $30 but they are maybe 2ft and I would like a couple 7ft to start. I did find a site that is about $27 a 5ft but I am leary of spending over $100 on trees that might not take but then again it maybe worth the risk. If any one has advice on pecan trees that would be great!


Hey, You are in my old stomping grounds! I was born in Bonne Terre in St. Francois county and lived most of my early life in DeSoto (not far from Potosi -- we used to go to a market over there when I was a kid). I know Meramec Caverns (that whole area actually) really well. Summers, we practically lived at Washington State Park or down at Johnson Shut-ins and Elephant Rocks (before it was a state park -- we played hide and seek amongst the boulders and climbed all over them. They won't let you do that any more...) My whole family is from that side of the state. I had ancestors over in the Marble Hill area (down near Cape Girardeau) since back in the early 1700s and I am a direct descendent of Pierre Laclede and Auguste Choteau (founders of St. Louis) on my dad's side. I would love to go back over there, but it probably wouldn't be the same -- memories are best kept as memories, I think. The world never looks quite the same once you are grown and try to go back.

I live over close to Branson now (which I hate!!!) Love our homestead though.

As for the pecans. Go ahead and buy the nut bundles from MDC. You will get more bang from your buck buying younger trees than if you shell out more for bigger ones. The younger trees adapt more quickly after transplant and will actually outgrow larger saplings after a couple of years. It is always tempting to go for the bigger ones, but really is not worth the extra money. They suffer more from transplant shock and take longer to re-establish their root systems, so take longer to re-start growing the trunk and branches. While you're at it, you should get a few wild plums and maybe some of the other nuts. Wild plums make the best jelly I have ever eaten, and black walnuts are a wonderful cash crop once they mature.

Probably best you don't dig up your spring though. It could change the flow, and if you did get in there, you might do some major disruption to the eco-system if you have a living cave (bats, etc.) Now if there is a natural opening and you can explore carefully, that's a different story altogether! Let me know and I will come over and explore with you.

Theresa Whited


Joined: Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 41
Is there anyway to get a producing pecan tree if money and environment are unlimited? I did check that about the sapplings and pecan trees have a longer tap root so moving them cause's too much stress, thanks for info deb I didn't know that.
Deb Stephens


Joined: Dec 03, 2011
Posts: 177
Location: SW Missouri
    
    2
Theresa Whited wrote:Is there anyway to get a producing pecan tree if money and environment are unlimited?


Well, if you truly have unlimited money, there are at least a couple of things you could do to get established, bearing pecan trees.

#1 Hire a tree mover like this... http://www.treemover.com/ to move your trees. At a few thousand dollars a pop, it will be pricey, however. But if you have unlimited money, that won't be a problem.

#2 Buy a pecan plantation so you only have to move in and start harvesting. (Might even be cheaper than moving several trees!)

Of course, you probably really don't have unlimited funds or you wouldn't have been hesitating to spend the extra $ for larger saplings, so...
My suggestion is that you buy the nut bundle from MDC and plant your trees carefully and tend them lovingly for a few years until they are firmly established. Trees require patience, but they pay off in the long run. (You will be looking at 10 to 15 years at least before you see nuts.) Sometimes it is the next generation that sees the payoff, but think what a legacy that will be for your children!

Meanwhile, consider joining a local food cooperative or check out farmer's markets and "pick-your-own" orchards. Co-ops often pool resources to buy nuts in bulk and split the costs and nuts between members. You can save a bundle that way. By picking them yourself, you will also save over the tiny bags in grocery stores. Alternatively, you may want to forage for nuts (where allowed). Public parks and forests often have wild pecan and walnut trees where you can pick up nuts for free. (Leave some for the squirrels. ) Also, try checking out Craigslist in your area. Every autumn when the walnuts start falling off the trees, people put ads in begging folks to come haul off their walnuts for free -- just to get them out of their yards. What unbelievable waste! Those same people probably buy shelled walnuts at exorbitant prices in the grocery stores.

Yet another thought... You could buy some hazelnuts or even fruit bushes or small fruit trees along with those slower growing pecans and at least harvest something sooner. Blueberries, blackberries, currants, cherries and plums, etc. all grow and start producing much faster. And of course, there are strawberries for the really impatient grower. There are always options if you look hard enough.
Theresa Whited


Joined: Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 41
hello deb,

I went to purchase the nut package from Missouri conservation had pecan, butternut, hazelnut etc they were sold out. I purchased 25 pecan, 25 black walnut (took your advice and 25 Norway Spruce for $30. When you order online they will contact you before shipping and then you send a money order. Shame on me because I waited to order because I thought it was pay upon ordering and missed the nut package. Its probably better this way because I didn't really all those nut trees and I did want some conifers for windbreak and cover. I have no idea where I'll put 75 trees on 5 acres, I'd happily give you a couple if I can get them to you. I know you can't resell MCD stock but I can give .

The reason I thought of you this morning was I found this http://www.usaseedstore.com/minihomeorchard.aspx 14 dwarf fruit trees for $110 and they produce in a year. I love bonsai so I am really drawn to these dwarf trees. What do you think? I believe they are grafted so that means you can't reproduce the tree? I think its a good Idea to start regular size trees in the same breeds for pollination?

I started growing seeds for food and flowers and I am suddenly obsessed with seeds and planting. I started grapefruit seeds and they are well, my cherry tomatoes popped up today. I am really anxious to plant my 2 cherry trees, 1 apricot, and 2 ornamental spruce hoping for good weather
Matt Smith


Joined: Feb 04, 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Central Ohio, Zone 6A - High water table, heavy clay.
Theresa Whited wrote:The reason I thought of you this morning was I found this http://www.usaseedstore.com/minihomeorchard.aspx 14 dwarf fruit trees for $110 and they produce in a year. I love bonsai so I am really drawn to these dwarf trees. What do you think? I believe they are grafted so that means you can't reproduce the tree? I think its a good Idea to start regular size trees in the same breeds for pollination?


Dwarf trees very often have shorter lifespans than their full-sized counterparts. You should still be able to reproduce them by taking scion wood from them and grafting it onto another rootstock.

Whether or not they pollinate has more to do with when they bloom than which size rootstock they're on. If they're compatible pollinating varieties and their blooming overlaps you should be good.
 
 
subject: Inexpensive Trees
 
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