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permaculture design certificate course dvd collection by Bill Mollison and Geoff

Nevin Beckes


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 12
Has anybody watched this?  I work full time and would have a real hard time doing a 2 week PDC cousre.  Any review would help a lot in my decision to purchase or not.  Thanks!
Emerson White


Joined: May 02, 2010
Posts: 1206
Location: Alaska
Can you use the word permaculture after you have watched them all?
Nevin Beckes


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 12
I was looking at the site that sells this series and it doesn't really specify whether or not there would be an actual certificate or say that one would be able to use the word permaculture upon finishing.
Tyler Ludens
pollinator

Joined: Jun 25, 2010
Posts: 5320
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
    
  20
Emerson White wrote:
Can you use the word permaculture after you have watched them all?


You can use the word permaculture whether you have a design certificate or not. 


Idle dreamer

Emerson White


Joined: May 02, 2010
Posts: 1206
Location: Alaska
I meant in relation to your own work, as a trademarked word you most definitely cannot.
Tyler Ludens
pollinator

Joined: Jun 25, 2010
Posts: 5320
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
    
  20
Sure you can.  You can say "I have a permaculture garden" or "I practice permaculture."

Don't make me post the Bill Mollison quote again

The only thing I have been able to find as trademarked by the Permaculture Institute is the snake design on the cover of the "esign Manual."

Emerson White


Joined: May 02, 2010
Posts: 1206
Location: Alaska
I was under the impression that you couldn't use it in association with your business unless you had taken a PDC.
Tyler Ludens
pollinator

Joined: Jun 25, 2010
Posts: 5320
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
    
  20
Emerson White wrote:
I was under the impression that you couldn't use it in association with your business unless you had taken a PDC.


I'm not able to find any documentation that supports that idea. On the contrary:

"The word 'permaculture' can be used by anybody adhering to the ethics and principles expressed herein.  The only restriction on use is that of teaching; only graduates of a Permaculture Institute can teach 'permaculture,' and they adhere to agreed-on curriculae developed by the Collage of Graduate of the Insitutes of Permaculture."
- Bill Mollison, Preface, "Permaculture a designers manual."
Nevin Beckes


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 12
I'm mostly interested in the practice of permaculture.  It seems like a 60 hour dvd course will Bill Mollison be pretty efficient in learning about permaculture.  My main issue is of the possibility of getting 2 or more consecutive weeks off from work and family to attend a true PDC.  If anybody has some advice I would truly appreciate it.  Thanks.
anndelise McCoy


Joined: Apr 17, 2011
Posts: 25
Location: near Bellingham WA
A brief review I read suggested going to itunes and searching for HS432.  There you'll find a video of a course as its being taught in NC State University by Will Hooker.  It's free, just have to download the itunes software which is also free.

The reviewer suggested watching the HS432 videos first, and then if you want a more advanced (and more expensive version), then consider either taking a hands on PDC course, or check out the Permaculture Design Certificate Course.

And no, you don't get a certificate for watching this set of videos.

One thing to keep in mind, also, is that the descriptions of this set of videos specify that these videos are of the classroom portion only.  So there won't be any of the hands ons, how-tos, nor tours of gardens and projects.  I've read of whiteboards being used by Geoff Lawton's portions, but I don't know if there's anything else, like those mini-animations on the PDI site.  I've also read descriptions that say that these videos are meant to be for reviewing a PDC, after having already taken a course and maybe needing some reminders.

A couple of days ago I asked a set of questions on the Tigari site regarding these videos.  I am awaiting a response.

I have limited funds, and am trying to find out if my money would be best served taking a horticulture course or getting these videos.  I've already got a few permaculture books.  I was hoping for something like Lawton's Soils dvd to really make the actual implementation of things clear.  I don't want to spend over $400 for something that I could read out of a $40 book.


Dealing w/ less than .17 acres, mostly shady, sun blocked by trees, annoying by-laws, about 1/3 of land covered by house and sheds, and very very minimal finances and labor options.  Time to get creative!
Terri Matthews


Joined: Nov 21, 2010
Posts: 382
Location: Eastern Kansas
    
    3
I watched the NC courses. The teacher took a lot of permiculture facts and tied them together into a cohesive whole.

He also spent a lot of time on teaching how to design a landscape that is both attractive and comfortable.
Michael Radelut


Joined: Jan 21, 2011
Posts: 193
Location: Germany, 7b-ish
Will Hooker's courses certainly are a lovely, easy-going introduction to Permaculture, with a lot of great field trips and guest lectures.

As you haven't specified whether it's backyard or broadacre permaculture you're interested in, here's a free introduction to both:
http://www.lineaclave.org/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103&Itemid=145

Under 'Cursos' you'll find three courses taught by Darren Doherty, which heavily features Keyline methods (and Holistic Management),
that some permaculturalists (including Paul) still seem to feel a little uneasy with, or know too little about. Maybe these courses can clarify a few things.
Mekka Pakanohida


Joined: Aug 16, 2010
Posts: 383
Location: Zone 9 - Coastal Oregon
Emerson White wrote:
I was under the impression that you couldn't use it in association with your business unless you had taken a PDC.


I wish, a lot of people need the PDC certification removed with the person slapped, and it actually should be given to some for doing great works. 
anndelise McCoy


Joined: Apr 17, 2011
Posts: 25
Location: near Bellingham WA
hugel, thank you for the link to those videos.  I'm now watching them here and there as time comes up for me.

(sorry about the u in your nick not having the symbol on it, I don't know how to get that)
Michael Radelut


Joined: Jan 21, 2011
Posts: 193
Location: Germany, 7b-ish
anndelise wrote:
hugel, thank you for the link to those videos.  I'm now watching them here and there as time comes up for me.

(sorry about the u in your nick not having the symbol on it, I don't know how to get that)


Pleasure. And: Copy & paste; that was the reason for choosing this nick in the first place
If you need more, just PM me.
Mekka Pakanohida


Joined: Aug 16, 2010
Posts: 383
Location: Zone 9 - Coastal Oregon
anndelise wrote:

And no, you don't get a certificate for watching this set of videos.

One thing to keep in mind, also, is that the descriptions of this set of videos specify that these videos are of the classroom portion only.  So there won't be any of the hands ons, how-tos, nor tours of gardens and projects.  I've read of whiteboards being used by Geoff Lawton's portions, but I don't know if there's anything else, like those mini-animations on the PDI site.  I've also read descriptions that say that these videos are meant to be for reviewing a PDC, after having already taken a course and maybe needing some reminders.





Hmm, the actual publisher says this about the dvd set:

The Permaculture Design Certificate Course was filmed in September 2005 at The University of Melbourne. Using a professional production team. The entire course is presented by Bill Mollison and Geoff Lawton.

Each disc has (+/-) 4.5 hours of content, 58.5 hours total for the set.

The last disc finishes up Chapter 14, student questions, the design assignment, graduation, round table and conclusion to the course.

There were 13 hours of the course devoted to students producing their designs (2 hours with Geoff mentoring, students also worked after class hours to complete their designs) the student design presentations (7.5 hours, big class! ), the graduation day, round table, conclusion, and the where to from here? discussion ( 6 hours). The entire footage of these 13 hours is reduced to a delightful 60 minute (+/-) collage for the viewer.






anndelise McCoy


Joined: Apr 17, 2011
Posts: 25
Location: near Bellingham WA
Mekka Pakanohida wrote:

Hmm, the actual publisher says this about the dvd set:
The Permaculture Design Certificate Course was filmed in September 2005 at The University of Melbourne. Using a professional production team. The entire course is presented by Bill Mollison and Geoff Lawton.

Each disc has (+/-) 4.5 hours of content, 58.5 hours total for the set.

The last disc finishes up Chapter 14, student questions, the design assignment, graduation, round table and conclusion to the course.

There were 13 hours of the course devoted to students producing their designs (2 hours with Geoff mentoring, students also worked after class hours to complete their designs) the student design presentations (7.5 hours, big class! ), the graduation day, round table, conclusion, and the where to from here? discussion ( 6 hours). The entire footage of these 13 hours is reduced to a delightful 60 minute (+/-) collage for the viewer.




http://permaculture.org.au/2010/04/28/permaculture-design-certificate-course-dvd-collection/ and http://www.tagari.com/ both say:
Join Bill Mollison and Geoff Lawton for an entire PDC lecture series in the comfort of your own home.

Refresh your experiences from the course or use this collection as an exceptional resource tool for any future projects you may have.

Be one of the first to own this incredible power house of information.

The DVD collection is suitable for use with NTSC systems and is region free. Some MacIntosh computers may have trouble playing these discs but suitable software upgrades may assist with this issue.


It's a lecture series which is meant to refresh your experiences of the course, or used as resource tool.

and the only actual review I've found of it, that goes into any kind of detail about it is at:  http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?271614-Permaculture-Design-Course-DVD-review

pacelli wrote:
My thoughts- I just finished watching this DVD set. It is extraordinarily expensive, but less expensive than traveling to a PDC session, and the benefit is that I could watch it at my leisure.

Bill Mollison's role in this DVD is essentially that of a comical story-teller. He's extremely funny, insightful, and teaches through telling stories of his adventures in life. This can be somewhat frustrating if you are interested in an orderly, stepwise presentation of material. At times you think to yourself, "I wonder if he's a little past his prime". Mollison is a little tricky. Just when you think that senility has set in, he starts in on some practical and specific suggestions.

When Bill uses the chalkboard, look out-- by the end of his lecture the board is an absolute mess with various drawings. I got the distinct impression that no design course taught by Mollison ever goes the same way. But Mollison does go into politics a bit and you get the sense from his statements that he is extremely anti-state and very libertarian.

Over the span of the DVDs, I found myself looking forward to Geoff Lawton's sessions. Lawton provides more of a structured and information-packed lecture. He provides a number of references, and the guy's application of permaculture principles is simply astounding. Lawton also functions as a "reigning in" mechanism when Bill starts to get out on some bizarre tangents.

If you are purchasing this series specifically for detailed information about improving your garden, you'll be somewhat disappointed. Permaculture is a system of integrated design, so this DVD set is extremely focused on how to replicate natural systems to get more out of your land than you put into it.

It is not a course on permaculture gardening, and the entire DVD series is shot in a classroom. However, it does provide some useful information if you think of your garden as a part of an inter-dependent system. Practically, I found Lawton's discussion on composting incredibly informative. He composts everything that the "how-to" books tell you to avoid (such as roadkill). His system of composting is based on Jean Pain's book as well as the Berkeley method of composting (18-day composting method).

One source of relational difficulty is that I live in the US (northern hemisphere), and this PDC was taught in australia (southern hemisphere). So there is more of a focus on tropical and subtropical plants, trees, and design strategies for those climates. They DO go into strategies for the temperate climates in the northern hemisphere (i.e. US), it just isn't the focus.

I've recently found a free video permaculture course on itunes that I would consider an intermediate-level introduction to permaculture. The bonus is that it is free, and, has more of a focus on the temperate climate of the US. The instructor, Will Hooker, takes his students out of the classroom in lecture 5 and shows you his garden which is located in Raleigh, NC. To find this course, go into the itunes store and do a search for "HS432". Download for free and enjoy. Once you get through watching all of these lectures, if you are still interested in a more advanced exposure to permaculture design, consider the PDC dvd series from Tagari.


pacelli points out that the entire dvd series was shot in a classroom.

That doesn't make it wrong, but it's helpful to know that it's not like other videos of Lawton's.  And, of course, pacelli doesn't mention if there were any slide shows or animated sequences that Lawton's made.
joe pacelli


Joined: Oct 27, 2010
Posts: 65
    
  16
anndelise wrote:
and the only actual review I've found of it, that goes into any kind of detail about it is at:  http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?271614-Permaculture-Design-Course-DVD-review

pacelli wrote:
pacelli points out that the entire dvd series was shot in a classroom.

That doesn't make it wrong, but it's helpful to know that it's not like other videos of Lawton's.  And, of course, pacelli doesn't mention if there were any slide shows or animated sequences that Lawton's made.



I'm here! 

There are occasional slide shows, but they are part of the actual course-- so for instance, lawton will be telling a story about the food forest, and he'll show slides of it.  And he'll tell the story associated with it.  But since the entire video was shot in a classroom, the camera shot will just pan up above the blackboard.  It is as if you have a seat in the class.  So there are no animated sequences like you might have seen during his other DVDs. 

No, you don't get a certificate when you buy the DVD course.

If anyone has any other questions that my review didn't cover, I'd be happy to answer them.  I've watched the entire DVD set 7-8 times now.


Located in zone 8a, eastern north carolina (coastal plain)
Mekka Pakanohida


Joined: Aug 16, 2010
Posts: 383
Location: Zone 9 - Coastal Oregon
joe pacelli wrote:
  I've watched the entire DVD set 7-8 times now.



Do you reckon it is worth the money for people who can't go to a course because of whatever reasons, such as being handicapped, or taking care of someone who is?
joe pacelli


Joined: Oct 27, 2010
Posts: 65
    
  16
Mekka Pakanohida wrote:

Do you reckon it is worth the money for people who can't go to a course because of whatever reasons, such as being handicapped, or taking care of someone who is?


I think it is, as long as those people fully expect that buying and watching the DVD set will NOT be enough to get a PDC certificate.  That being said, the issue of being handicapped and making appropriate adjustments for physically disabled people are not directly covered in any of the DVDs in the course.
anndelise McCoy


Joined: Apr 17, 2011
Posts: 25
Location: near Bellingham WA
joe pacelli wrote:
I'm here!   

There are occasional slide shows, but they are part of the actual course-- so for instance, lawton will be telling a story about the food forest, and he'll show slides of it.  And he'll tell the story associated with it.  But since the entire video was shot in a classroom, the camera shot will just pan up above the blackboard.  It is as if you have a seat in the class.  So there are no animated sequences like you might have seen during his other DVDs. 

No, you don't get a certificate when you buy the DVD course.

If anyone has any other questions that my review didn't cover, I'd be happy to answer them.  I've watched the entire DVD set 7-8 times now.


Oh yay..now I can bombard you with questions since the permaculture.org.au site hasn't answered my questions about the dvd set yet.  muhahhaahaha

My questions were:
1. I own the Soils dvd, it plays on one of our laptops but not our dvd. Is this course set up in similar format as the Soils one? (PC playable wise)

2. I love Geoff Lawton’s personality and teaching methods. However this set is filmed in a classroom only, right? So there isn’t any viewing of hands on activity nor of processes in effect? Is there any kind of visual stuff happening for visual learners? Or is it restricted to lecture only? (note: an example of things I liked is when Lawton talked about the types of common weeds and the purposes of their roots and what the roots do for the soil..I just can’t find that kind of info elsewhere) (also: does it provide more detail in things like figuring out the sun’s pathway, shadows, wind, and other sector energy flows? or will I still have to research that stuff elsewhere? Basically, telling me to do it doesn’t tell me how to do it, I need more how’s.)

3. Does this course provide more than the typical books do? Does it go into more detail? or is it more like a verbalized form of the books? Books I have are:
Intro to Permaculture by Bill Mollison;
The Earth Care Manual by Patrick Whitefield;
Permaculture Principles and Pathways by David Holmgren;
Earth User’s Guide to Permaculture by Rosemary Morrow;
and Gaia’s Garden by Hemenway

4. I recognize that it could be more of a plant oriented or horticulture course that I need to help me actually make use of the info in the books. So if the dvds offer nothing more than the books I have, my limited funds might be better spent finding a local horticulture course.

Joe, if you can offer any feedback on those, I'd greatly appreciate it.  
Maybe it's me, but so far I haven't been all that impressed with most of the free PDC videos I've seen (Will Hooker's and the one someone else linked above).  Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I've watched them, definitely.  But I've just not been that impressed.  I feel like I'm more being sold on an idea rather than given much of any methodology for actually getting to it.  Perhaps number 4 is what's blocking me.

For example, I'm having to do my own researching for the actual methods of surveying my plot's sun, shade, and wind patterns.  I feel like I wouldn't be wasting so much time if there was something that actually went into detailed ways of how I could go about doing the site surveying instead of just being told to survey for such-n-such factors.

Anyways, any feedback you can offer would be great.

(note:  I recognize that you've already answered part of question 2, would you cover the other parts too?)
joe pacelli


Joined: Oct 27, 2010
Posts: 65
    
  16
anndelise wrote:
Oh yay..now I can bombard you with questions since the permaculture.org.au site hasn't answered my questions about the dvd set yet.  muhahhaahaha


=)  I'm surprised they are not ALL OVER answering your questions, since the amount of energy that is spent getting this DVD set to someone in the US is out of control.  I mean I think the shipping alone is about $100 to get it across the pond.


My questions were:
1. I own the Soils dvd, it plays on one of our laptops but not our dvd. Is this course set up in similar format as the Soils one? (PC playable wise)


Ok, I don't own the soils DVD, but, all of these discs will play on my computer DVD drive as well as my main DVD drive hooked up to my TV (which is an old XBOX).  They're multilayer discs, so each disc has about 3 "lectures" worth of information on it.


2. I love Geoff Lawton’s personality and teaching methods. However this set is filmed in a classroom only, right?


That's correct.  As Geoff says early in the course (first disc or so), it is all "chalk and talk".


So there isn’t any viewing of hands on activity nor of processes in effect? Is there any kind of visual stuff happening for visual learners? Or is it restricted to lecture only?


There aren't any hands-on activities at all, everything is done on these huge 4 x 8 chalkboards behind Lawton and Bill.  So that's really the only visual content in the entire course, aside from watching Geoff and Bill's physical and facial expressions.  They use the heck out of those chalkboards though.  I'm a visual learner myself and find that the chalkboards are sufficient for learning, but, they leave me wanting more. 


(note: an example of things I liked is when Lawton talked about the types of common weeds and the purposes of their roots and what the roots do for the soil..I just can’t find that kind of info elsewhere)


He goes into that during the course (and actually gets kind of funny about it), but if you are looking for a reference, check out the book, "Weeds and what they tell" by Ehrenfried E. Pfeiffer. 


(also: does it provide more detail in things like figuring out the sun’s pathway, shadows, wind, and other sector energy flows? or will I still have to research that stuff elsewhere? Basically, telling me to do it doesn’t tell me how to do it, I need more how’s.)


You're still going to have to research that "how to" stuff elsewhere for the most part.  This course really just scratches the surface.  All of the things you mention are covered in detail, but the "how to" is pretty light.  On the whole, some students ask "how to" questions (there's a vertical backboard where students write their questions between courses).   Lawton is much better at answering these questions, whereas I find Mollison tended to wander away from the question (for the most part). 


3. Does this course provide more than the typical books do? Does it go into more detail? or is it more like a verbalized form of the books? Books I have are:
Intro to Permaculture by Bill Mollison;
The Earth Care Manual by Patrick Whitefield;
Permaculture Principles and Pathways by David Holmgren;
Earth User’s Guide to Permaculture by Rosemary Morrow;
and Gaia’s Garden by Hemenway


It does provide more than the typical books do as far as giving you an exhaustive overview of permaculture, but the structure of the course is based on the Design Manual (the big black book that you don't have listed). It is not a verbalized book, but it does follow a structure.  During the course, there are lots of green banners that flash across the bottom of the screen that reference "PDM p. 222" while bill or geoff is talking.  Those references direct you to the Permaculture Design Manual.


4. I recognize that it could be more of a plant oriented or horticulture course that I need to help me actually make use of the info in the books. So if the dvds offer nothing more than the books I have, my limited funds might be better spent finding a local horticulture course.


The course kind of brings everything together, but it isn't specific-- you definitely walk away wanting more details.  The course promotes a certain style of thinking, or looking at the world.  Kind of like how once you get a college degree in a certain trade, you still need to keep learning about that trade. 

If you're after some more specific things such as plants, or the "how to" of forest gardening, definitely spend your limited funds on your specific areas of interest. 



Joe, if you can offer any feedback on those, I'd greatly appreciate it.  
Maybe it's me, but so far I haven't been all that impressed with most of the free PDC videos I've seen (Will Hooker's and the one someone else linked above).  Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I've watched them, definitely.  But I've just not been that impressed.  I feel like I'm more being sold on an idea rather than given much of any methodology for actually getting to it.  Perhaps number 4 is what's blocking me.

For example, I'm having to do my own researching for the actual methods of surveying my plot's sun, shade, and wind patterns.  I feel like I wouldn't be wasting so much time if there was something that actually went into detailed ways of how I could go about doing the site surveying instead of just being told to survey for such-n-such factors.


There is some methodology mentioned in the course, such as how to go about talking to earth movers when building dams, how to make compost in 18-20 days, etc.  But I think Lawton mentions early in the course that the objective of the course is to get you to "step away" from the demand for "how to" and instead engage you into "edge thinking" and solving your own problems based on your own observations and the principles of permaculture. 

Part of the problem with courses like this is that the information is designed to apply to nearly ALL climates of the world.  For example I've watched the course several times now, and I still have questions about surveying.  Heck, I watched Lawton's Water Harvesting DVD and I still don't understand how to dig a swale on contour, let alone a dam.  But I understand why it is necessary to dig on contour. 

I find that for all of the "how to" stuff, I still have to consult books, talk to people near me, etc.  You're definitely going to have unanswered questions about surveying your plot if you buy this DVD set.  In fact I found myself reading MORE specific books since watching this course.  For instance I have the Food Forest DVD, and watched the course.  What was my next move?  Ok, I got it-- now HOW do I do it?  So I went and got the Edible Forest Gardens vol 1 & 2 book set, among other things. 



(note:  I recognize that you've already answered part of question 2, would you cover the other parts too?)


Please feel free to ask more follow-up questions.  I hope Paul doesn't mind me dominating this thread with answers, but my sense is that because this DVD set is so ridiculously expensive, he'd be cool with me paying that energy expenditure forward to all interested folks who haven't yet taken the plunge. 
tipafo Hatfield


Joined: Jan 26, 2011
Posts: 47
Location: Colorado, Zone 5, Cold Semi-arid
Thanks for review, joe!

It sounds like the DVD set is what I thought it would be: the PDM verbalised.  Not that that's a bad thing.  The set is still cheaper than an actual PDC, and even lacking any hands-on coverage, I think it would be a great reference.

I'd enjoy hearing any further thoughts on the set, if you get bored some time.
anndelise McCoy


Joined: Apr 17, 2011
Posts: 25
Location: near Bellingham WA
Thanks Joe, for taking your time to answer these questions.

As for shipping of the dvd's, Powell's is supposed to be the place to order from for the northern hemisphere.  It's supposed to make the shipping much less expensive.  But I haven't compared, so I could be misunderstanding what I remember reading about that.

I'm thinking I've moved to wanting more than to scratch the surface, now.  Though I will likely still keep the Design Manual on my list of books to buy.

I like that Lawton has begun making more focused videos, such as the Water Harvesting dvd, the Soils dvd, and an upcoming Urban Permaculture dvd.  I'll probably save my money and get the more focused dvds and/or books.

You mentioned that permaculture promotes a certain style of thinking, or looking at the world.  And it's obviously primarily based on observations and the principles.  And I agree.  In fact, lol, that's one of the things I'm struggling with.  Systems thinking is a completely new way of thinking for me.  But this means also that I (and others) don't have the 20-50 years of this kind of thinking nor experience to draw from to a) guide our observations, b) get information from our observations, and c) figure out how to make use of those observations.  I often feel like I'm having to reinvent the wheel at each step.

I would love to see a wiki or such where a person can follow a sequence of steps as they learn to design for their own property.  And each step listing different ways that they can go about to do it, what to look for, what to research, etc.  For example, doing the sun sector analysis.  If I could look at the different ways that people do this, and how they find their sun/shade areas, then I could find a method that might work for me without having to spend tons of time researching it over the internet, or spending money on one time use expensive gear.  (Note: I've got two possible methods and will be experimenting with them, but it took me a week and a half to gather internet info and sift through it all.)

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I do have the Edible Food Forest book set.  It's actually the first set of books that I bought, before I had even heard of permaculture.

I would love a chance to watch these videos, and may if down the road I know enough people who are interested in watching them too, then I can buy them to share amongst us.  But for now I'll spend my money on learning more specifics.  Though I'm definitely looking forward to that new dvd Lawton's working on.

Again, Joe, thank you for spending your time answering our questions, AND for your previous review that I had linked to earlier.
John Sizemore


Joined: Mar 27, 2011
Posts: 94
Location: West Virginia/ Dominican Republic
NevinBeckes wrote:
I'm mostly interested in the practice of permaculture.  It seems like a 60 hour dvd course will Bill Mollison be pretty efficient in learning about permaculture.  My main issue is of the possibility of getting 2 or more consecutive weeks off from work and family to attend a true PDC.  If anybody has some advice I would truly appreciate it.  Thanks.

Barkign Frog does an online PDC course. Thier website says the next one will be 2012.
I am wanting to attend the PDC. TIme off is the problem.


I am the first generation of my family to grow up on the grid eating out of the super market. I hope to be the last.
joe pacelli


Joined: Oct 27, 2010
Posts: 65
    
  16
My pleasure in providing more info for you, and, if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably end up buying the DVD set again.    There's a reason I've been watching them basically non-stop every day just before I fall asleep.  They're part of my nighttime pattern now.  Today, I woke up dreaming about creating a microclimate designed for beneficial parasitic wasps.  =)

As folks stumble upon this thread in the next few months/years, I plan on being around, so please don't hesitate to ask away.

Chris Watkins


Joined: Nov 20, 2009
Posts: 71
Location: SE Asia.
    
    1
anndelise wrote:
I would love to see a wiki or such where a person can follow a sequence of steps as they learn to design for their own property.  And each step listing different ways that they can go about to do it, what to look for, what to research, etc.  For example, doing the sun sector analysis.  If I could look at the different ways that people do this, and how they find their sun/shade areas, then I could find a method that might work for me without having to spend tons of time researching it over the internet, or spending money on one time use expensive gear.  (Note: I've got two possible methods and will be experimenting with them, but it took me a week and a half to gather internet info and sift through it all.)


Me too! We're building a permaculture wiki at Appropedia - but the vision hasn't really caught hold firmly yet. That is, people love it when the material is there, freely available, but we haven't had a lot of participation yet from the permaculture community. That's understandable - the contributing part feels geeky to some people, but once we have good pages, like you describe, using it's a pleasure. (My favorite pages so far are the Arcata Marsh pages, about a wetland in California used in sewage treatment.)

One of the major sources of knowledge going into this permaculture wiki now is the work of students - and I'm hoping we can get more interns and more classes of students doing their projects on Appropedia, by the second half of this year. But I know there's a lot of knowledge here at Permies - and some people such as Paul Wheaton and Suzy Bean are already contributing. Would love to see more of all of your wisdom shared there!


Appropedia.org: wiki for sustainable design, permaculture, appropriate technology & all that jazz.
 Me: Wiki and open knowledge consulting.
Marcella Rose


Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 95
Location: Central Texas, it is dry here.
.

Do you reckon it is worth the money for people who can't go to a course because of whatever reasons, such as being handicapped, or taking care of someone who is?

Our problem is Saturdays...there is no way that we can do any classes on a Saturday and I have yet to see a "weekday only" course.


No land yet, but growing what I can with what I have!
Brad Davies
volunteer

Joined: Sep 22, 2011
Posts: 212
Location: Clarkston, MI
    
    1
Marcella Rose wrote:.

Do you reckon it is worth the money for people who can't go to a course because of whatever reasons, such as being handicapped, or taking care of someone who is?

Our problem is Saturdays...there is no way that we can do any classes on a Saturday and I have yet to see a "weekday only" course.


I've paid far more for college course where I learned far less. I would say if you can't take a PDC in person it's the next best thing.


SE, MI, Zone 5b "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."
~Thomas Edison
Geoff Lawton
permaculture expert


Joined: Nov 10, 2011
Posts: 47
Hi Joe
thanks for a nice review.


Famous for "greening the desert" and several permaculture DVDs including his latest: Urban Permaculture
Nevin Beckes


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 12
Wow! I am blown away by the response I recieved from this post. Thanks to everyone who contributed, I ventured away for quite some time, it was delightful to come back to see all the wonderful input. I do have one more question. I am now leaning towards the Geoff Lawton DVDs, there are 5 total and I am just about certain to buy them. I was wondering if anyone knew if there are English subtitles on those DVDs as I am hard of hearing? Thanks again!
Nevin Beckes


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 12
Frank was nice enough to respond to this question on the PRI forum.PRI Forum

P.S. There is a special for all 5 Geoff Lawton DVD's, when purchased with registered shipping it came out to $202 U.S. dollars. About $40 per DVD that I am almost sure will be worth every cent. I will try to post a review of each one after I have watched them.
rowan eisner


Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 3
Hi, my partner and I have watched the first DVD of this set and have found it extremely difficult to face watching any more of it. I really do think BM has lost the plot a bit. He's always had a bit of a rambling style, but if you're actually making a dvd and selling it for $400 you need to be more disciplined than this! There might be 5-10 minutes of useful and interesting information/hour. I can't really judge because I only watched the first dvd and GL didn't teach any of it. What a pity though! This is a job that really deserved doing well. Since they had been teaching this course annually for several years I would have thought it would have been worth recording maybe 5 years of the course and editing it down to the best bits. And including some of GL's excellent teaching aids. Make it really worth paying $400 for! By the way, I managed to persuade my university library to buy it so if anyone is at UQ you can watch it free!

I have been thinking about another approach to an accessible PDC. I worked for a while at the medical school at UQ and they use a method called problem-based learning to teach medicine. If it can produce doctors, surely it should be good enough to teach PC?! How it works, classes (small groups, 8-12) work through a series of design problems they have to solve collectively, each problem designed to teach part of the curriculum. Groups divi up the problem, go off and research it and come back and teach each other. There has to be a good collection of materials available for people to find answers, but that is available online and in the various books, especially the design manual. And it is combined with guest lecturers, site visits, practical tasks and, of course, the design exercise. I have been thinking of putting together a course like that for years. I suppose I could grant the certificates because I did a PDC with three of MB's students back in 1990, partly at Bill's place. Would this be of interest to people? Would it be possible to do it online? The main thing it would need would be total commitment by participants, which I've been very disappointed about in the past with online courses. What do you reckon?

Cheers
Rowan
 
 
subject: permaculture design certificate course dvd collection by Bill Mollison and Geoff
 
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