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what grows well with grape vine?

Paula Edwards


Joined: Oct 06, 2010
Posts: 411
I want to plant grape vine along a fence (rabbit mesh). Is there a plant which is good in between the vine plants?
                                


Joined: Dec 20, 2009
Posts: 148
I suppose you could plant most anything with grapes, but grapes prefer to be clean-cultivated. Take a look at any successful vineyard....
Kate Fortesque-McPeake


Joined: Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: PA, zone 6b
Haven't tried this myself, but I've heard that hyssop is a good companion plant for grapes.  It's supposed to improve yields in vineyards.  Also good with cabbage and potatoes, as a trap crop for pests, apparently.


http://livingthefrugallife.blogspot.com/ - Homesteading on 2/3 acre in a ruralish suburb - PA, zone 6b
Brenda Groth
volunteer

Joined: Feb 01, 2009
Posts: 4433
Location: North Central Michigan
    
    9
i have always grown climbing roses with my grape vines..although you do have to do some pruning from time to time to keep BOTH under control they work well together.

you can grow perennials around the bases of your grapevines too as long as they are welll mulched and well fed..

other vines that might work would be kiwi and or honeyberry?


Brenda

Bloom where you are planted.
http://restfultrailsfoodforestgarden.blogspot.com/
Paula Edwards


Joined: Oct 06, 2010
Posts: 411
Can you plant two climbers together? Kiwi is a very strong grower.
I might try hyssop, however I want to plant several grape wines and can't use that much hyssop. Roses sounds nice too.
I want to grow the grapes along a fence.
Clear cultuivated that means hoed. Could I mulch with stones instead we have so much.
                                    


Joined: Nov 08, 2010
Posts: 147
Location: Anoka Sand Plain, MN Zone 4/5, Sunset Zone 43
good question!  i'd like to look into this more - we are putting in lots of grapes this year along a fence.  i am planning on just mulching them to start.  and using vine tubelings.  since in my case there will crabapples above the grapes i wonder if some woodland spring ephemerals would work...
                              


Joined: Jul 12, 2010
Posts: 123
I once read that lemongrass is a good companion for grapes.  I also can't track this info down again... arg!
Mekka Pakanohida


Joined: Aug 16, 2010
Posts: 383
Location: Zone 9 - Coastal Oregon
I planted Yarrow, verbena, & crimson clover with mine. Mine is growing along a bit of a windbreak fence & also doubles as a border to protect some medicinal plants.  Within 20' sharing the same fence line is Golden Raspberry. 
Jonathan 'yukkuri' Kame


Joined: May 23, 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Foothills north of L.A., zone 9ish mediterranean
    
    3
Read that mustard greens grow well with grapes.  The wild ones are some of the first to colonize dry, bare soil, which is what grapes seem to like.  They will break up the soil with their fibrous roots. 
              


Joined: Jan 13, 2010
Posts: 238
Location: swampland virginia
look at black walnut, if you are willing to go taller.
Matthew Fallon


Joined: Jan 07, 2010
Posts: 307
Location: long island, ny Z-7a
    
    1
i have a hardy kiwi growing with a thompsons grape. i need to get 2 more kiwis as  i dunno if the male or female is the surviving vine..never fruited.  theres a black walnut grow right above them actually in my neighbors yard.
i jsut took a bunch of clipping from them both yesterday to try rooting...

theres also a Goji berry bush near it and 1 long "limb" is growing up into the grape pergola.

Baldwin Organic Garden Share  Our home-based garden cooperative.  Tribal Wind Arts Rustic Furniture  & Artisan-Craftwork from reclaimed suburban trees
Gary Park


Joined: Jan 09, 2011
Posts: 146
Location: St. Louis, MO
    
    2
I hurriedly planted my Pink Reliance vine in my flowerbed(overflowing full bed already), which is next to the dog kennel(downhill...yea).  It shot off right out of the gate and grew a total of about 25 FEET in both directions in the bed.  I neglected to clip it back, but my plan is to harvest new starts this spring and end up with 10 or 20 vines to cultivate.  Grapes have a big root system, so I wouldn't put it with anything you'll be digging for, but otherwise don't worry too much about it.
                            


Joined: Jan 06, 2011
Posts: 16
Location: New Zealand
There is no such thing as a kiwi vine, sorry.

Kiwi a small flightless birds, they do not grow on vines. They are also an endangered species and eating one would have you liable for criminal charges

what you are likely thinking of is kiwifruit ( note that it is one word).

the more you know ..
Burra Maluca
Mother Tree

Joined: Apr 03, 2010
Posts: 5011
Location: Portugal Zone 9 Mediterranean Climate
    
190
Well we just bought three kiwi vines from the farm shop - two in pink bags and one in blue.  I guess we should call them chinese gooseberry vines, but it seems that every country is entitled to change the name as they see fit. 


What is a Mother Tree ?
                            


Joined: Jan 06, 2011
Posts: 16
Location: New Zealand
the reason, afaik that yanks seem to know them as 'kiwi', is because they were marketed by what at the time was the kiwi fruit company,  however the name of them was kiwifruit, or, yes, Chinese gooseberry.

however to talk about growing small, endangered , flightless birds on a vine is wrong. 

point of interest, if kiwi were not so endangered, they would be useful for keeping populations of insects under control, including beetle grubs. they find them a lovely snack.
Matthew Fallon


Joined: Jan 07, 2010
Posts: 307
Location: long island, ny Z-7a
    
    1
meh,whatever , theyre known and sold here as kiwi vines. yes to pick nits theyre chinese gooseberry.  all i know of them is that theyre from china and were then seeded in new zealand in the 80's ...and mine have never fruited 

i saw some in a seed catalog today that were bright pink, pretty wild.
Jan Sebastian Dunkelheit


Joined: Aug 08, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Germany/Cologne - Finland/Savonlinna
You shouldn't ask "what grows well with grape vine" the question must be: What companion plants improve the taste of the grape!

Important is that the ground is covered all year round and that the ground cover doesn't compete with the vine's water thirst. Cucumbers would be a bad choice.
Malva, vicia, phacelia, red and white clover, peas and beans are good. Use them as mulch. Suppress high growing gras. Low growing gras is okay but you should not support it. Gras in general is bad for the wine taste. Mulch high around the vine stems but of course leave the stems free. Do not mulch in a wide radius around the vine stem.

The person who said "Clean-cultivation" aka monoculture is wrong. You have to spray, spray, spray and fertilize like mad without cover crops.

I'm from the river Rhine in Germany. Wine region.


Life that has a meaning wouldn't ask for its meaning. - Theodor W. Adorno
Paula Edwards


Joined: Oct 06, 2010
Posts: 411
Your name is German.
If I grow peas or beans there, is it meant as a green manure crop which you slash before flowering or is it meant as beans to fill your tummy?
I doubt that I could grow anything there which shades the vines too much because they would not ripen properly. We are in cool temperate climate, however not as cold as the Rhine and we are getting considerably more sunshine.
If I plant a vine every two meters or so along the  fence line then I would plant something in between which doesn't grow very tall. That might be beans, but this is something which must be intercropped or rotated.
rose macaskie


Joined: May 09, 2009
Posts: 2134
dunkelheit, i am so glad you have written what you have that i could kiss you, maybe i am feeling emotional tonight, i remember seeing a photo or a bit of documentary about growing grapes in germany and seeing that the ground was not bare at their feet which pleased me enormously because I feel bare ground in orchards and vinyards must, bit by bit, impovrerish soils. and you have confirmed that in Germany they grow grapes with other plants  at their feetand also wha t you say as well as confirming somethign i have seen  means that maybe the healthier word will spead.
      The trouble with the television is that I never know what I am whatching nor have I got good at looking it up afterwardds and so I cant cheque it up when i want to write about it.

    I have read that euphorbias are good for apple trees because apples like potassium i think it was, well in these forums some big contributer commented that grapes need potasium, that if thyey have plenty then they are less likely to get moulds, so maybe euphorbia would be good with grapes too. agri rose macaskie.
 
John Polk
steward

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 6652
Location: Moving to: NE Washington USDA zone 5 Western steppes to the Rockies
    
137
Contrary to a prior post, I will say DO  NOT plant Black Walnut within 50 feet of a grape vine (or any other plant for that matter).  The Black Walnuts exeude a chemical from their roots called juglone.  It is a growth inhibitor which tries to keep anything else from growing near the tree.  Not all plants are susceptable to juglone, but most are.
Walnuts are selfish with their soil!
Jan Sebastian Dunkelheit


Joined: Aug 08, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Germany/Cologne - Finland/Savonlinna
ediblecities: Normally the peas and beans are meant as green manure only. The idea is that you rotate green manure crops in a 3 times per annum cycle. Do you really have to rotate beans? I know that you have to reseed clover quite often because the mulch supresses it. That is why you mulch only near the vine's stems.

I once read that you can grow some wheat (allthough it is a gras) in between the rows of the vineyard so that the peas and beans can use them as climbing support to build biomatter faster.

Rose: You're welcome. I get a little bit sad myself when I see bare soil. Don't know why.
rose macaskie


Joined: May 09, 2009
Posts: 2134
I know why i dont agree with it, it is because as a child I somehow got it into my head, from education, which i suppose was just like other bits of education, fairly neutral, that soils need building up, but for some reason for me it was  important and has stayed important. people who know me think, probably, that i am untidy but what seems to me gross inefficiency annoys me, maybe annoyed is not thre reight word i would like to change it, though i dont suppose i manifested that sort of feeling in the old days being a person who tried not to make a nuiscance of myself or who had been eduated not to.
 i understand though, that at one time a theory entered into farming that it was that is was  better to preserve plants from competition from other plants and so they took all other plants out of the way.  
      The other side  of the coin other plants will take up nutrients grapes might want is that plant covering means less erosion of soils so you should keep the ground covered too much erosion can't be good..
    Another part of the reverse side of this coin is that plants are the base matter of more organic matter, with which the soil gets built up and without which it gets spoilt, also for the plants that dont like too much nitrogen, dead plant matter builds up soils without adding as much nitrogen as manure would in a gentler way.
  Also and maybe most important plant matter in soil helps the soil to retain moisture important in the climates grapes are often grown in.

    Here the erosion is so bad and it is so inefficient to let soil go like that that i dont agree with it but i cant say bare soil makes me unhappy but the bare earth is often pretty., i like it i just don't think its healthy, especially with global warming.
    I enclose a picture were erosion has bared rocks and generally made the landscape more attractive. and places like this give me greaunholy satisfactiion , you should h ave satisfation from relating to others and i also get wedded to ccertain landscapes.


[Thumbnail for sobre pastoreo almiruete 2.jpg]

rose macaskie


Joined: May 09, 2009
Posts: 2134
  I htink grapes might be a quick way to cover eroded land in dry countries they are meant to bare bad soils and the heat. agri rose macaskie.
Jan Sebastian Dunkelheit


Joined: Aug 08, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Germany/Cologne - Finland/Savonlinna
Rocks are different. I like rocks. Just imagine how long it took nature to press them into that form. Too me, they are aesthetically pleasing.
rose macaskie


Joined: May 09, 2009
Posts: 2134
          The bare earth were it is overgrazed rarther than ploughed, is full of stones that have had the earth trodden off them and I like stones as well as rocks. When i first came to Span there were no trees, the ones in the above foto quercus faginea and quercus pyrenaica, quercus ilex and junipers juniperus thr¡ifera and there are common juniper there to if you search for them, the oaks have grown from ones that were coppiced, cut down when they were still small , when their trunk had a diametre of about nine inches and then regrowing from the roots.
          A friend of mine said he liked the place, it reminded him of the woods in Canada, which he said he had seen i certainly had not and I thought they look like cabbage stalks to me not the Canadian woods, this friend is crazy!.
              The trees were  coppiced to use  the wood for fires and stoves and the encinas, the evergreen oaks, are pollarded and pruned ,they are the ones cut down to remain a small tree. among the long thin trees.
              The trees grew because much of the countryside had been abandoned, everyone had migrated to France or Germany or to the towns. some years before i arrived. When Spsain was treeless and even now in many places, you can see to the horizon, there are no trees to block the veiw and seeing a long way is pretty as rocks are, liking it is love of the desert but it is worrying if you are a responsible steward of the earth and it seems that education and maybe nature formed me as a person who worried about the health of the the countryside.
          I cant find a photo of  a bit of ground ground I like.  I was not focusing on the ground in the photos, if i could be said to focus at all. but i like the soil covered covered in stones that have been trodden clean of earth.
 
      To go back to grapes. They are linked to bad soils, the John Seymour organic gardening book says that the classic countries, Greece and Rome did for their soils, they weren't ecological and then all they cculd grow was grapes and olives and so they needed to trade wine and olives for wheat and that got them sailing around the mediteranean and in the end conquering instead of just trading. I imagine Spain was a good wheat growing place till they spoilt its soil too, it is said to have been wooded and so at first any spot they deforested would have had great soils.
 
            In the mediteranean the grass dries in summer so it does not compete with anything in that season.

            Would the herbs that grow in mediteranean countries be good for vines,  lavender, rosemary, and time, and such, which as companion plants might keep off bad insects? rose macaskie.
 
Mekka Pakanohida


Joined: Aug 16, 2010
Posts: 383
Location: Zone 9 - Coastal Oregon
Interesting Roman correlation between Spain, wheat, and the grapes.  All of the Roman empire had to send wheat / grains for bread and food to Rome because at the time, the city couldn't support itself without products being brought into the city constantly. 

It would be an interesting ethnobotanical investigation to see what herbs and plants did grown naturally in a supportive relationship prior to, and post Roman / Greek farming. (Pre-Iron age). 
              


Joined: Jan 13, 2010
Posts: 238
Location: swampland virginia
RustysDog wrote:
Contrary to a prior post, I will say DO  NOT plant Black Walnut within 50 feet of a grape vine (or any other plant for that matter).  The Black Walnuts exeude a chemical from their roots called juglone.  It is a growth inhibitor which tries to keep anything else from growing near the tree.  Not all plants are susceptable to juglone, but most are.
Walnuts are selfish with their soil!

I can not speak for all grapes, but i have a grapevine that has grown almost to the top of a black walnut tree. I have been pulling other vines off the black walnut. It would not surprise me if vines are not effected by juglone. Also have some sassafras, wild bushes, oak, tulip poplar, st augustine, english ivy, camellia and other plants growing in the root zone.

Going to cut back the grape vine in a couple weeks and move some mulberries, black raspberries, medicinals, herbs, vegetables, and other edibles by the black walnut. I am tempted to plant more black walnuts, but that will have to wait for the rest of the plan.

From the books, mulberries are one species that helps filter juglone. I understand the concern, just going on what I have seen and not going to be as stressed about black walnut killing new comers.
John Polk
steward

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 6652
Location: Moving to: NE Washington USDA zone 5 Western steppes to the Rockies
    
137
One plant for certain that will suffer within the walnut's root zone is tomato.  I have been told that most vegetables do very poorly in the vicinity.

Wild grapes are known to do OK, but every reference I have seen specified "wild grapes".  Before mankind began cultivating grapes, the grape vines encircled tree trunks.  Man's cultivation was primarily an attempt to keep the fruit within easy reach.

As far as herbs are concerned, the commonly used herbs in the US are the "Mediterranean herbs".  Their native growth is very much like most weeds.  In the wild, they are typically found on rocky hillsides with poor, thin soils, and are native to regions with little to no rain during the growing season.  They do well everywhere except wet soils.  They would probably do well around the walnuts (but plant some herbs elsewhere also, just in case).
Jordan Lowery
volunteer

Joined: Sep 26, 2009
Posts: 1528
Location: zone 7
    
  11
Contrary to a prior post, I will say DO  NOT plant Black Walnut within 50 feet of a grape vine (or any other plant for that matter).


i know of six 15+ year old grape vines that are growing next to an even older black walnut. both species produces great crops. the grapes are actually very tasty.


The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. - Masanobu Fukuoka
Paula Edwards


Joined: Oct 06, 2010
Posts: 411
How do you harvest them with a very looooong ladder?
We wouldn't get a single grape without netting it anyway, for me there's no point letting a grape or a kiwi or anything up into a tree.
              


Joined: Jan 13, 2010
Posts: 238
Location: swampland virginia
ediblecities wrote:
How do you harvest them with a very looooong ladder?
We wouldn't get a single grape without netting it anyway, for me there's no point letting a grape or a kiwi or anything up into a tree.

I don't, the birds do. they were that way when I bought the property. Someone (or something) planted these vines a good while back. Been told if I cut them back and trellis them, they should produce well, but there is a chance they will not. Some of them are in heavy shade of pine trees, so I'm sure they have been their decades years. some grow on top of native bushes, some in black walnut trees, some in mulberry trees. Going to cut them all back this year. Maybe I should make something out of the leftover vine.
Shane Ward


Joined: Jan 01, 2013
Posts: 2
I can see this is an old thread, but I thought you might find this useful all the same:

Grape Vine companion planting:

Companion plants: Geraniums, Mulberries, Hyssop, Basil, Tansy

Basil - Herbaceous layer – pest repellent
Tansy - Herbaceous layer – pest repellent
Geraniums - Herbaceous layer – pest repellent
Hyssop - Herbaceous layer – helps plant growth
Chives - Root zone – inhibits fungal diseases
Mulberries - Canopy layer – beneficial companion plant

Bad Companions : Radish, Cabbage

(From Deep Green Permaculture's notes).
Steve Flanagan
volunteer

Joined: May 06, 2012
Posts: 324
Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet
    
    8
I planted two grape this fall. It is good to know what to plant with them.
S Bengi


Joined: Nov 29, 2012
Posts: 1033
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7, AHS:4, Rainfall:48in even distribution
    
    5
I companion plant things in the onion/allium family with every thing.
They are normally soil pest repentant, I eat the leaves, they need little water and sun light, they also confuse insect/pest.
And they smell so wonderful.
Rick Larson


Joined: Aug 04, 2012
Posts: 210
Location: Manitowoc WI USA Zone 5
Shane Ward wrote:I can see this is an old thread, but I thought you might find this useful all the same:

Grape Vine companion planting:

Companion plants: Geraniums, Mulberries, Hyssop, Basil, Tansy

Basil - Herbaceous layer – pest repellent
Tansy - Herbaceous layer – pest repellent
Geraniums - Herbaceous layer – pest repellent
Hyssop - Herbaceous layer – helps plant growth
Chives - Root zone – inhibits fungal diseases
Mulberries - Canopy layer – beneficial companion plant

Bad Companions : Radish, Cabbage

(From Deep Green Permaculture's notes).


Now I need to know if I should plant on the sun or shade side?


Soaking up information.
 
 
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