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ecologically sustainable development vs. permaculture

paul wheaton
steward

Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 14985
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
    ∞
from wikipedia

TIL: "ecologically sustainable development" is searched for more often than "permaculture".  The thing that bugs me is that people type all of that in when searching for it. 

Might it be fair to say that people that are searching for "ecologically sustainable development" would be happier with the result set when searching for "permaculture"? 

Or, is their idea of "development" mean something I'm not thinking of?

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Brice Moss


Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 700
Location: rainier OR
    
    2
seems that most of us are interested in going the other way from the common idea of "development" as to have any permanence or sustainability development needs permanent limits limits
tel jetson
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Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 3087
Location: woodland, washington
    
  53
I think it's "development" as in "the developing world" as in "rich countries imposing projects on poor countries."  but maybe I'm just being a Cynic.


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Brenda Groth
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Joined: Feb 01, 2009
Posts: 4433
Location: North Central Michigan
    
    8
maybe those individuals who are typing in all those letters have never heard of the word permaculture? Maybe we should find a way to include permaculture sites in the list that would pop up if someone searched ecologically sustainable development??

How would we go about getting our sites included in that search? Maybe put an article or paragraph or two on our sites that are entitled ecologically sustainable development??


Brenda

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Robert Ray
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Joined: Jul 06, 2009
Posts: 1320
Location: Cascades of Oregon
    
  12
Perhaps they're looking for a development that is permaculture friendly?


"There is enough in the world for everyones needs, but not enough for everyones greed"
(Buckman)
richie Walsh


Joined: Sep 15, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: Zone 7 Dublin. Ireland
For at least the past ten years, there has been a lot of talk, primarily among those whose alleged concern for sustainability is a cover for exploitation but also among those who should know better, of something called sustainable development. In this phrase, development is essentially a synonym for industrialization, for destruction, as in the development of natural resources. Under this rubric, sustainable development is an obvious oxymoron. Industrialized people consume more resources, and cause more damage, than non industrialized people. The “development” of the industrialized nations has been and continues to be unsustainable for the industrialized nations and for the world at large, and the further “development” of the world will only make things worse. 

Derek Jensen.

I think it says it all.
Robert Ray
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Joined: Jul 06, 2009
Posts: 1320
Location: Cascades of Oregon
    
  12
Does one develop a permaculture homesite?
Joshua Msika


Joined: Jun 06, 2010
Posts: 66
Location: Nova Scotia
I am currently studying "sustainable development" at Saint Andrews in Scotland (and computer science and geology but ignore that for now). It seems to me that the people studying ecologically sustainable development have simply not realised the strength of the permaculture paradigm. Firstly, many have never heard of it. Second, many who have think that it's limited to gardening and food production. Finally, it has been taken over (at least in the UK) by many poetry-and-pictures type people who preach but forget to practice.

I am planning to change all that at Saint Andrews. Permaculture will be mentioned in every single one of my essays. 
                          


Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: Zone 5a (Canada)
Brenda Groth wrote:
maybe those individuals who are typing in all those letters have never heard of the word permaculture? Maybe we should find a way to include permaculture sites in the list that would pop up if someone searched ecologically sustainable development??


I agree - I didn't know the term until I stumbled across it after hearing it in a documentary, then I searched for it and found this site - after a long search!

if you put in a link url with the text "http://www.google.com/webhp#q=permaculture" Then every time someone clicks on it, google will register a search for permaculture. Maybe there are sites that link to (auto generated) searches for "ecologically sustainable development" as hot buzz words?

Either way - the number of times we've written "ecologically sustainable development" in this thread should boost hits for the site.


Zone 5a (Canada)
Joel Hollingsworth
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Joined: Jul 01, 2009
Posts: 2103
Location: Oakland, CA
paul wheaton wrote:...is their idea of "development" [] something I'm not thinking of?


I think most of the Google users in question want to hear about perpetual exponential growth, or pollution-free gentrification, or (as tel jetson mentions) compassionate colonialism.

"evelopment" is one of those fundamental terms that becomes a piece of jargon in a large number of disciplines, and ends up confusing people when they try to talk across areas of expertise. But in this case, the jargon is similar enough to paper over that confusion, whereas confusion between a software developer and a bottle of photograph developer would be discovered a lot more quickly.

Permaculture designs tend to include a special and limited space for development, rather than seeing everything as a means toward development. It is a different sort of question, to ask "what place might development have in my life?" versus "assuming we'll develop this thing ruthlessly, how can we mitigate the environmental consequences?"


"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men.  They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
Leila Rich
steward

Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 3702
Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,
    
  77
I'm completely ignorant of how search engines work. Would doing this increase the 'hit rate' a bit?

ecologically sustainable development ecologically sustainable development ...  [20 more repeats deleted by paul]
Joshua Msika


Joined: Jun 06, 2010
Posts: 66
Location: Nova Scotia
As far as I know, Google rates pages by the number of pages containing links pointing to that page. The best way to get more hits on a page is to post links to it from outside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank

By scanning the above article on Google's internal ranking system says that not only does it consider the number of links pointing to a page but it also counts how important the pages are that are sending the link (a link from a popular page like amazon is worth much more than a link from an unknown blog for example).

Of course, this just determines in what order the pages found are listed not whether a particular page is listed in the first place.
paul wheaton
steward

Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 14985
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
    ∞
pippimac wrote:
I'm completely ignorant of how search engines work. Would doing this increase the 'hit rate' a bit?


I think that is a practice that will put you on google's evil doers list and might penalize the whole site.  I think I'm gonna edit your post a little.

paul wheaton
steward

Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 14985
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
    ∞
joshthewhistler wrote:
As far as I know, Google rates pages by the number of pages containing links pointing to that page.


Now you are wandering into the realm of SEO.  Such a massively complicated space.  To talk about this more, I think it should it should be taken up in the "tinkering" forum.


Joel Hollingsworth
volunteer

Joined: Jul 01, 2009
Posts: 2103
Location: Oakland, CA
By the way, a lot of the spam you see is posted with the intention of influencing Google's page rank.

As to development: I recently saw a link to a lecture, given by an economist named Tim Jackson. He wrote a book called something like 'prosperity without growth,' and it seems like both the book and the lecture begin by efficiently dismantling claims that development, as we currently know it, might be sustainable.

At the end of the lecture, he fields a question about carbon-neutral growth, and mentions that carbon is only one dimension of this: not only would long-term prosperity-building have to be carbon-negative, it would have to address land use, biodiversity, and a whole host of issues. This suggests to me that permaculture might be a part of what he is looking for.

TEC lecture: Economic reality check
Paul Cereghino
volunteer

Joined: Jan 11, 2010
Posts: 847
Location: South Puget Sound, Salish Sea, Cascadia, North America
    
  14
To be blunt--I question the value and function of the "vs." in the title of this thread, except to create a false social dichotomy between "us" and "them".  Sustainable development, development on stable systems, appropriate technology development, green capitalism, permaculture, ecological design, traditional lifeways, blue-green transitional futures development, whatever... just words.  I propose we need to focus on understanding the actual processes, structures and functions (both physical, biological, and social) of real human-dominated ecological systems, and not dwell on labels.  We desperately need to be having more detailed conversations with everyone and anyone at whatever level they are willing to talk, preferably about real things that are in front of us.  The problem is the solution.  [End of rant].

Paul Cereghino- Stewardship Institute
Maritime Temperate Coniferous Rainforest - Mild Wet Winter, Dry Summer
 
 
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