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Nutrient Need List

Rob Sigg


Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 710
Location: PA-Zone 6
OK so maybe I am being too scientific but I thought it would be cool to have a list of useful permaculture style species and what there nutrient needs are. My plan is to hook them up with other plants that are dynamic accumulators of those nutrients to provide a guild. Does anyone know of such a thing? I have the list that shows which nutrients certain plants accumulate, but I dont have a source for which nutrients certain plants need to marry them together.

Once Im done compiling this I would like to Post for everyone to have access to. As I am preparing my permagarden I am building a database with all kinds of information.


permaculture wiki: www.permies.com/permaculture
Chelle Lewis


Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Posts: 417
Location: Hartbeespoort, South Africa
    
    1
Maybe give us something of what you already have to get us started.....

I know that Comfrey and Alfalfa are dynamic accumulators... and I wouldn't leave out Moringa either!  ....

Finding what they are good companions with would probably give a clue to which plants would benefit from these plants I would think. I know that most plants benefit from Moringa and Seaweed... so perhaps the list for dynamic accumulators is more important that those they benefit... that being more general in scope I would think. There would perhaps be a few exceptions.

Just my thoughts. But an interesting idea.

Chelle

Rob Sigg


Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 710
Location: PA-Zone 6
http://oregonbd.org/Class/accum.htm

That is the link I have to "weeds", and I am still searching for other sources, now I just need to know what to plant these with so the other plants benefit from them.

The one thing that is struggle for me are certain things like comfrey. I read they are great and do all these wonderful things, but at the end it always says, can be very invasive and hard to irradicate! Arg, what is a guy to do!
Joel Hollingsworth
volunteer

Joined: Jul 01, 2009
Posts: 2103
Location: Oakland, CA
blitz1976 wrote:
maybe I am being too scientific but I thought it would be cool to have a list of useful permaculture style species and what there nutrient needs are.


You seem to be using "scientific" as a rough synonym for "reductionist." I think they're a good 60 degrees apart.

Becoming more reductionist can make science seem more appealing, and science often goes faster if done with a very reducitonist mindset: the two aren't completely orthogonal. But I think a major danger of cataloguing plants in a framework that only considers nutrients isn't that you'll kill they mystery of them, so much as painting a misleadingly simple picture that might be adopted by those who insist on a definitive answer.

The catalogue you're building would be very useful, but I think companion planting is maybe 1/3 a question of nutrients. Other important issues you might want to consider in your catalogue are root morphology and root exudates.

Some catalogues are very good about listing deep, shallow, or intermediate roots. Also roots' ability to hold soil can be very important.

There are some famous exudates like juglone (black walnut) and ailanthone (tree of heaven) that stunt the growth of many plants and drastically limit some species' companion options, but it's also important to know about how much sugar a root system will exude to maintain the local soil ecosystem. And there are more complicated effects of root exudates, as in the case of marigolds.

Since a lot of the science is yet to be done, a good catalogue might also have room in it for some pure phenomenology: these do well together, these don't, we're still figuring out why.


"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men.  They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
Chelle Lewis


Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Posts: 417
Location: Hartbeespoort, South Africa
    
    1
blitz1976 wrote:
The one thing that is struggle for me are certain things like comfrey. I read they are great and do all these wonderful things, but at the end it always says, can be very invasive and hard to irradicate! Arg, what is a guy to do!
Plant it as you would the mint family... separated and unable to spread.

I must admit to loving those kinds of plants... bio-mass! at the very least... 

Chelle
Rob Sigg


Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 710
Location: PA-Zone 6
I couldn't agree more, and those other factors are what I am trying to build as well. I think it would be good to have a source that gives a multidimensional look at plants. For example on my spreadsheet I have the name and then a whole bunch of attribute columns like Windbreak, Hedge, Groundcover, Dynamic accumulator(will expand with exact nutrients), Beneficial Insect, fertilizer, nitrogen fixer, sun and soil requirements etc. Basically a cross reference database that you can sort for specific circumstances.
Rob Sigg


Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 710
Location: PA-Zone 6
Cyara wrote:
Plant it as you would the mint family... separated and unable to spread.

I must admit to loving those kinds of plants... bio-mass! at the very least... 

Chelle


Hmmm, how do you isolate it though, with rocks, cement or what? Also, if it is separated how will it benefit other plants unless you just chop it up and throw it on as mulch? I guess if that is the only option then that is still a good solution, I was just trying to use it as permanent companion to other plants.
Rob Sigg


Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 710
Location: PA-Zone 6
Cyara

Do you have any advice on how to keep this isolated? I know these things have deep taproots so putting a buried barrier wont really work too well. I don’t have any water to surround them with…..yet….
Aljaz Plankl


Joined: Feb 18, 2010
Posts: 310
    
    4
There is no problem with invasive plants if you plant a diverse habitat, they will control one another.

Nitrogen demands (vigorous growth, needed in spring):

very high 10g/m2
plum
citrus
walnut
blackberry
sweet chestnut

high 6g/m2
apple
apricot
hazelnut
medlar
mulberry
peach
pear
quince
blackcurrant
gooseberry
persimmon

no extra
woodland trees
fig
bay
nut pine
juniper
redcurrant

ground cover plants 1g/m2

low 2g/m2
elderberry
raspberry
cherry
honey locust

Potassium demands (protects against pests and diseases, forms fruit and flowers):

very high 13g/m2
sweet chestnut
raspberry
goosberry
walnut
legume

high 7g/m2
apple
plum
hazelnut
peach
blackberry
cherry
fig

no extra
woodland trees
bay
nut pine
juniper

low 3g/m2
elderberry
blueberry

phosphorus demands (good stem growth):
full crops 1g/m2/year
Rob Sigg


Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 710
Location: PA-Zone 6
That is good information I will add that to my spreadsheet.

Speaking of which, since I can't attach excel spreadsheets to messages, does anyone have any suggestions on how to make it accessible. I can make it a pdf but it will not be as useful since you wont be able to manipulate the data
 
 
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