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All Night Burning Wood Stove with Heat Chamber before Exhaust.

Jeremiah wales


Joined: Dec 28, 2012
Posts: 104
    
    1
Does anyone have any pictures of their conventional wood stove with a Heat Chamber added to it (Like the Rocket Mass Heater) But on a Wood Stove to get more heat and then go to an Exhaust. But not into a Mass? How good do they work on a Regular Stove where you control the Intake? Draw Backs?
I saw one the other day, But seems to be gone now
Jeremiah wales


Joined: Dec 28, 2012
Posts: 104
    
    1
Seems like almost everyone is Hooked on The Mass heaters. Any regular stoves that use a few of the concepts of that stove using a regular stove without the mass? I am just not sold on the Huge Mass bench and the small sticks it takes. I want the fire to last all night. but get more heat into the house before it exits.

Anyone have one?
Chris Burge


Joined: Oct 21, 2012
Posts: 88
Location: Spokane, Washington
    
    4
Jeremiah wales wrote:Seems like almost everyone is Hooked on The Mass heaters.

well....that is the emphasis of this forum

I am just not sold on the Huge Mass bench and the small sticks it takes. I want the fire to last all night.

Simply put, just wanting to burn larger pieces of wood, all night long, is just wanting to waste an enormous amount of fuel. Today, I'm going to pick up about 60gal of free wood scraps from a local woodshop-- good mix of soft and hardwood, little pieces...perfect. That's a couple of weeks of fuel for an RMH, while it would only take a couple of days to shovel that through an average woodstove.

but get more heat into the house before it exits.

That is exactly what an RMH provides!

Just for you, one last simple comparison:

Wood Stove: requires larger amounts of larger sized fuel to achieve a 'good' burn; only delivers heat while burning; exhausts a tremendous amount of unused heat and fuel directly out the chimney

RMH: requires smaller amounts of smaller fuel to achieve a 'good' burn; efficiently and effectively delivers heat while burning and long after the fire has gone out; uses all of the available fuel and nearly all of the available heat before it goes out the chimney

I'm sorry, but you've already had this explained to you, in many other ways, by many other vastly patient individuals (including myself) on your other sceptical thread, and it's beginning to seem as if you are just not listening...


"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -- Albert Einstein
Jeremiah wales


Joined: Dec 28, 2012
Posts: 104
    
    1
Thats the point. It is too good to be true. You know they can not put ANYTHING on the internet that is not true. Right?
I wish there was someone in Northern Wisconsin that I could go over an hang out for a dsy to see how well it really works in their home.
I am sure there are Thousands of people like me who hear about Mass heaters and wonder how well they work long term.
All of the explanations and Videos only give part of the story. But not the long term effects and more facts or seems like part of the story is missing in them.
Thanks for all info you all have listed.
Dont be Inpatient when someone asks for more information about stuff and how it really works. Just want the holes of the story filled in.
Chris Burge


Joined: Oct 21, 2012
Posts: 88
Location: Spokane, Washington
    
    4
Jeremiah wales wrote:Thats the point. It is too good to be true.


'Too good to be true' would be something like anti-gravity or free energy... this is just simple, proven, physics.

You know they can not put ANYTHING on the internet that is not true. Right?

Now you've downshifted from scepticism to just plain snide pessimism...if not a broad, and slightly offensive, generalization.
With some good research and critical thinking skills, it's not hard to tell what's crap and what's not on the information highway.
karol kerl


Joined: Jul 03, 2012
Posts: 25
Jeremiah wales wrote:
Any regular stoves that use a few of the concepts of that stove using a regular stove without the mass? I am just not sold on the Huge Mass bench and the small sticks it takes. I want the fire to last all night. but get more heat into the house before it exits.


Efficient and clean burning of wood needs extreme heat, which will in turn consume the wood in the burn chamber extremely fast.
There are only two ways to deal with this fundamental fact.
The simplest way is mass, a lot of it, to store the heat, which is released by the fire within a short time.
The second is a significantly smaller stove with a smaller burn chamber, feeded by an automatic system,
eg. a pellet feeder driven by gravity or other means.
Jamie Corne


Joined: Jan 11, 2013
Posts: 61
Jeremiah wales wrote:Seems like almost everyone is Hooked on The Mass heaters. Any regular stoves that use a few of the concepts of that stove using a regular stove without the mass? I am just not sold on the Huge Mass bench and the small sticks it takes. I want the fire to last all night. but get more heat into the house before it exits.

Anyone have one?


The burn process - molecular:


Stage I. Heating an external source supplies heat causing the temperature of the substance to increase. The extent of temperature change depends on the specific heat of the material.
Stage II. Transition physical, mechanical, and thermal properties change. This may include melting or vaporization of the substance and may involve softening in the case of polymers.
Stage III. Degradation thermally unstable bonds begin to break. Materials such as polymers may melt before (or as) they burn.
Stage IV. Decomposition at still higher temperatures the majority of the bonds reach failure point, causing the release of gaseous molecules which differ depending on the material that's burning.
Stage V. Oxidation in the presence of oxygen at high temperatures, oxidation of the gaseous fragments proceeds rapidly producing heat, flame, and combustion products (mostly carbon dioxide and water).

http://www.pslc.ws/fire/howwhy/firstage.htm

For conventional wood stoves - most of the heat is wasted or lost...through the chimney.

With these rockets - you keep the heat inside the house...instead of being lost outside.

K Nelfson


Joined: Nov 07, 2012
Posts: 124


No, it's true. The exuberance for the new-fangled RMH ideas put you off, but there is a long history of properly designed highly efficient fireplaces that incorporate thermal mass. AND lots of these people have made RMHs and have experience to back up their claims.

Traditional fire management relies on large pieces of wood so that the surface-area-to-volume ratio and exhaust rate controls the burn. But heaters that depend on heat mass burn quickly and collect the heat, which slowly works its way into the room. Small pieces of wood are better (within reason) and often (in masonry heaters) a grill is used to speed up the burn of coals.

Some links about masonry stoves are below. (Some are broken and I haven't had time to go clean them up.)

https://delicious.com/neffk/search?p=russian

Also, general stove design tips can be found at the link below. It tends to focus more on cook stoves, but the principals are similar.

http://www.aprovecho.org/lab/index.php
Jeremiah wales


Joined: Dec 28, 2012
Posts: 104
    
    1
Thank You. Karol Kerl, Jamie Corne, K Nelfsen.
Your information is very interesting. I appreciate your helpful comments. I have heated with wood almost all of my life. I always try to sleep thru the night without getting up to fill the stove again. I understand all kinds of wood and wood that is not completely dry will cause moisture build up in my Pipes and Chimney. That is one reason I am worried about a Horzontal pipe in the Mass. Ash is also a concern of mine.
I think I am going to try a combination Mass heater in my Basement and put the mass in my partial Crawl space. Putting a heat vent above my Stove-Barrel in the basement for heat to come up thru my floor of the house.
I see some people have a problem with draft or pull thru the pipes to the outside. I have Never had a problem with that in my Chimney. But eliminating a Chimney is another big worry of mine in the House.
I currently have a wood stove on First Floor of home. Always works fine. But uses a lot of wood every winter in below zero temps.
I wish there was more complete videos online of building something like I am talking about. But it is worth a try.
Thanks again
K Nelfson


Joined: Nov 07, 2012
Posts: 124
Before embarking on the RMH adventure, consider the state of your insulation. It's not as much fun, but it's usually the most effective way to cut down on heating bills and effort.
Satamax Antone
volunteer

Joined: Sep 24, 2011
Posts: 1011
Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
    
  15
http://donkey32.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=experiment&action=display&thread=511


God of procrastination (Pratchett's style) )
Chris Griffin


Joined: Dec 18, 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Eastern edge of the Blue Ridge Mnts. Virginia
Take a look at this thread, it is an older one, but it is very informative.

http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/list/40/5937

I believe that these folks are somewhere north of you and they heat a Yurt, basically a round canvas building. I see that you are from the north woods of Cheeseland, so being skeptical with your heating system is important for your well being. Were I back home in Wisconsin, I would be building an outdoor rocket in the late spring to see for myself how they work and how I could make one work with my home. No one here is selling these stoves, a few sell designs that help to build a working stove, but no one can say what will work in your house and what won't. You have to experiment and see for your self.


Live long, Live free and Love every minute!
August Brooks


Joined: May 06, 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Rainier, WA
JUST FYI...
Here's a chart of all the elements in wood, and their burn temps-

Material Ignition Temp.
Hydrogen 1000 F
Carbon Monoxide 1100 F
Methane 1200 F
Acetic Acid 1000 F
Formaldehyde 800 F
Pine Tar 670 F
Charcoal as low as 300 F


We can achieve 1200 degrees in our burn chamber with only sticks and branches, burning all gasses completely. And when the mass gets hot enough, our burn session is over.

www.zaugstoves.com


www.zaugstoves.com
Jeremiah wales


Joined: Dec 28, 2012
Posts: 104
    
    1
I am under the Impression that the Burn Chamber (Barrel) is the one that get real hot. That is where the Gasses burn up and then exhaust into the Horzontal pipe in the mass. Not really burning in the Mass. But exit thru there and being Horizontal it lets out more of the heat before exit out the wall.
I have seen some stoves that have a secondary Chamber like that on top of them. Will they also Burn the gasses in there like the RMH?
Thanks
August Brooks


Joined: May 06, 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Rainier, WA
The burn chamber is actually a chamber within the cylinder, where the fire mixes with oxygen and gasses. Temps can reach 1200-1400 degrees F. After the heat hits the top plate and travels down the sides of the cylinder (Barrel) the temps are only about 400-600 degrees F.
S Bengi


Joined: Nov 29, 2012
Posts: 1030
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7, AHS:4, Rainfall:48in even distribution
    
    5
I say go for it build the RMH without the bench, see if it performs worse.
Its true that the extra heat that is normally captured by the bench will go to waste and that the chimney exhast temp will be 350F vs 90F.
Still go ahead and build it see if it is any worse if it is not then build the bench and "maybe" it will be even better.
How much do you think it would cost to build one.
Why dont you build one, for a $300 and then tell us if it was a waste them maybe you can be the one telling other skeptic about this.
Instead of arguing or waiting for BOB to do it for you. Do it yourself, dont just depend on BOB/GOV/CHINA/etc. Go out and experiment.
Jeremiah wales


Joined: Dec 28, 2012
Posts: 104
    
    1
S Bengi wrote:I say go for it build the RMH without the bench, see if it performs worse.
Its true that the extra heat that is normally captured by the bench will go to waste and that the chimney exhast temp will be 350F vs 90F.
Still go ahead and build it see if it is any worse if it is not then build the bench and "maybe" it will be even better.
How much do you think it would cost to build one.
Why dont you build one, for a $300 and then tell us if it was a waste them maybe you can be the one telling other skeptic about this.
Instead of arguing or waiting for BOB to do it for you. Do it yourself, dont just depend on BOB/GOV/CHINA/etc. Go out and experiment.


I am sorry, I do not know any BOB, I never Argue with anyone and I have never asked anyone to do anything for me. I am researching an RMH. Many people here seem to have a lot of information on how they work. How will any of us know how they work unless we ask. The information here seems spread out. Details of this system for a real house is important.
Just askiing questions mainly about the Heat chamber.

Thank you August Brooks for the info about Cylinder.

August Brooks


Joined: May 06, 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Rainier, WA
You're welcome.
Visit our website if you get a chance. www.zaugstoves.com
 
 
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