permaculture outhouse permaculture sepp holzer bone sauce permaculture cast iron permaculture chicken harvest permaculture electric heat
Permies likes rocket stoves and the farmer likes recent podcast mentions shippable Ceramic Rocket Mass Heater Core ? permies
  Search | Permaculture Wiki | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies | World Domination!
Register / Login


permies » forums » energy » rocket stoves
Bookmark "recent podcast mentions shippable Ceramic Rocket Mass Heater Core ?" Watch "recent podcast mentions shippable Ceramic Rocket Mass Heater Core ?" New topic
Author

recent podcast mentions shippable Ceramic Rocket Mass Heater Core ?

Scott Perkins


Joined: Nov 14, 2012
Posts: 23

"big reveal" that was one of the highlights of the workshop: a shippable Rocket Mass Heater core
When will they be available and what will be the cost ? Any other specs available? Pics ?

Please let us know the plan or at least goals if not plan yet.

Thanks
Saybian Morgan
volunteer

Joined: Apr 22, 2011
Posts: 580
Location: Lower Mainland British Columbia Canada Zone 8a/ Manchester Jamaica
    
    8
Do you mean these? I read the spec's on ceramic tile flue liners and it's pretty kickass. I bought 2100f rated flue pipe to make a bastards burn tunnel with no clay, but these ceramic molds beat that hands down and probably would have cost me the same.

http://www.hart-keramik.de/go/hartkeramik/home/products,l-en.xhtml


[en_args.pic_200x250_a.jpg]

allen lumley
pollinator

Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 2720
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
    
  40
Ouch ! It says this site has been visited 43 times and I get third comment ?!?? PLEASE, People, lets all take a moment to leave a comment . The New 'Cast-able Ship-able Ceramic 3 piece Rocket Stove Cores' are an Order of magnitude better than what we have now, and you're here because you know how great we already have it !
Let's sign in and leave a comment create some momentum and make this happen soonest ! A.L.


Success has a Thousand Fathers , Failure is an Orphan

LOOK AT THE " SIMILAR THREADS " BELOW !
Greg Harvey


Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Posts: 22
Location: Columbia, Missouri
    
    1
I do have a question about these cores. Will this be suitable for either 6" or 8" systems? I'm wanting to build a 6" system so I'm betting this won't help. Any pictures of this somewhere?

Greg


Greg Harvey
Columbia, Missouri
Aj French


Joined: Oct 13, 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Mahanoy City, PA
I was going to start a thread asking the same thing! I was trying to wait, but I've been searching kickstarter for any of the mentioned projects and haven't found any yet. I'm VERY interested and looking to support in any way I can! looking forward to hearing some news! Thank you for your work guys!
Michail Orfeus


Joined: Oct 17, 2012
Posts: 6
Saybian Morgan wrote:Do you mean these? I read the spec's on ceramic tile flue liners and it's pretty kickass. I bought 2100f rated flue pipe to make a bastards burn tunnel with no clay, but these ceramic molds beat that hands down and probably would have cost me the same.

http://www.hart-keramik.de/go/hartkeramik/home/products,l-en.xhtml



we use these here in greece since 5000 bC
old technology rules


[Thumbnail for IMG_2191.JPG]

Chris Sturgeon


Joined: Nov 13, 2012
Posts: 91
Location: Yukon Territory, Canada. Zone 1a
    
    2
I've been thinking of having my local pottery class make some fired chimney for me. There isn't a kiln around here big enough to fire the whole unit in one piece, but it could be made in three nesting lengths and fitted together with thin refectory mortar. These pre-made units from Germany(?) look very nice and I love to support this type of thing, but I don't feel that shipping in from that far away fits the general ethic of what I'm trying to do with my stove.
Ernie Wisner
volunteer

Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 788
Location: Tonasket washington
    
  23
I can assure every one that the shipable is way cooler than those. We all wanted to show folks what we have been working on and show every one we are actively working on folks issues as we can.
We actually have to test the shipable for a year just like all our other stoves so please be patient. another issue came up in the initial testing and that is we have to go to higher temp materials (3500 degrees or there about's) We burned the high temp enamel from our stove thermometer. so we need to get higher temp stuff. I do have a bit of an offer for someone who has lots of money and wants to pay Erica and i to build a special testing system. that person needs to be able to take data and let us know how the system works and if they are happy with it or dont like it. this will be negotiation as we choose who wants this. one warning its not gonna be cheap to do this and i am picky about who i trust prototype systems to. if you are interested please email me and we will talk. there will also be phone conversations and such later in the process.


Need more info?
Ernie and Erica
Wood burning stoves, Rocket Mass Heaters, DIY,
Stove plans, Boat plans, General permiculture information, Arts and crafts, Fire science, Find it at www.ernieanderica.info


Saybian Morgan
volunteer

Joined: Apr 22, 2011
Posts: 580
Location: Lower Mainland British Columbia Canada Zone 8a/ Manchester Jamaica
    
    8
Ernie I'm down for what your suggesting, I've never herd of the subject till this topics. I took a wild guess and found those images on the net, but I cannot testify of what you guys are talking about. Are there any pictures for what seems to be in prototype stage, I just wanna ready up on what this breakthrough provides.
allen lumley
pollinator

Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 2720
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
    
  40
Here's one more vote forpictures, or failing in that because,----- well for any reason could we just have a sketch, come on tease us a little !
allen lumley
pollinator

Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 2720
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
    
  40
-In Paul Wheaton's podcast 225 Rocket Mass Heater Workshop Part 1 Erica states that the prototype has ceramic fibers and rice starch for stabilizing and that when its fired the rice starch is' burned out and you have this kinda felted ceramic that stays in place' - - 'It has a Porcelain ring' ( I only claim this as a near paraphase of what she said ) my take - away from this is the rough 'felted' inner surface of the ceramic tube being isolated from and insulated by the rest of the ceramic tube would in the presence of high temp gases almost instantly reach a temperature that would cause it to glow 'Red Hot' , this would create the very local condition that Paul W. describes as (paraphrased) 'you get a chimney fire every time ' burning up the remaining hydrocarbons with super efficiency and higher Temps , It remains to be seen whether continued exposure to the scrubbing effect of the new higher temp. gases will change the felted effect, glazing over the inner core ! I really want to here Ernies and Ericas thoughts on this !
Chris Sturgeon


Joined: Nov 13, 2012
Posts: 91
Location: Yukon Territory, Canada. Zone 1a
    
    2
the prototype has ceramic fibers and rice starch for stabilizing and that when its fired the rice starch is' burned out and you have this kinda felted ceramic that stays in place'


This sounds good. It sounds like a solid pipe of low density ceramic kiln brick... but fuzzy? I assume that fuzz would have good effect on turbulence, but I wonder if it also could create drag. Is the thinking that the high surface temps would create a thermal 'flow'past the rough surface of the inner wall?
allen lumley
pollinator

Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 2720
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
    
  40
chris : This is not a TROLLing message ! We are going down a slippery slope here and need to be Very careful not to add to the confusion by implying words and attributes to this ceramic refractory material that was never claimed ! ' Fuzzy' is such a word , going in this direction will only increase our "fuzzy" thinking, (pun intended) !
I can visualize a type of plumbers material called carbon felt - the sales demonstration for it involves covering your hand with it and then using a propane blow-torch to melt a (Copper clad Zinc) penny ! This felted material will not however take the heat we need 'ceramic refractory material' to take ! If we admit we are speculating, then think of one of those new micro-fiber blankets or 'throws' now on the market. While they feel felt-like, they visually 'look' smooth and sleek ! Again this is all nearly useless speculation, and may be harmful if we start using words to describe " VAPOR WARE " we have never seen ! Lets not be guilty of seeing clothes on a Naked Emperor , and then trying to describe them !
Chris Sturgeon


Joined: Nov 13, 2012
Posts: 91
Location: Yukon Territory, Canada. Zone 1a
    
    2
Thank you, Allen. You are right, I was kinda thinking through the keyboard there. Just so everybody knows: I have never seen this product, nor do I have any knowledge of it's construction, properties, nor physical appearance.

I'm sorry if this was confusing or misleading in any way. I guess I was just taking a stab in the dark and hoping that Erica or Ernie would fill in a bit more of the picture. I can also understand why they don't want to spotlight too much of an ongoing project.

There are so many good minds and deep experience on these forums; I find I get a lot out of people's purely mental constructs. I will clearly label mine as such into the future.

*Edited for punctuation.
laura sharpe


Joined: Nov 17, 2012
Posts: 244
    
    2
why are you testing this to start with, what are the benefits of changing materials
allen lumley
pollinator

Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 2720
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
    
  40
Laura Sharp : For a long time the Heat Riser was constructed of steel pipe insulated on the side facing towards the barrel , this was done for longevity of the Heat Riser, generally the time it took for the steel pipe to heat up was the period that 'smoke back' was a potential problem, 3-4 minutes! With a brand new prototype cast-able, ceramic refractory material making up the Heat Riser, Burn temperatures were increased greatly - ( the test probe melted!) and the time that 'smoke back' was a potential problem was reduced to near 40 seconds !
. You can follow this yourself by going to Paul Wheaton's Pod cast #225 , and listening to Paul W. and Ernie and Erica Wisner (stewards in these forums) discuss the new Rocket Stove Mass Heater's Trial Run -
. They give the credit to the improvement in performance to the new Heat Riser - The BAD NEWS is they want to test this for at least a year before they release the new parts to Production / Sale !
. pyromaticly yours Allen L.
Scott Perkins


Joined: Nov 14, 2012
Posts: 23
I have not had a chance to shop around yet but I think there are several suppliers of ceramic chimney flue that comes
in different sizes and shapes. My plan is to locate and purchase a couple of these to build a smallish cooking
Rocket stove. Did anyone else see the German cast ceramic core I found on EBAY ? Look back a few messages
in this thread and there are two photos.
Ernie Wisner
volunteer

Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 788
Location: Tonasket washington
    
  23
Calm down everyone it is a cast-able refractory material, it is not fuzzy, it is not a ceramic (this would mean insulating around the heat riser) it is known as Rock wool but this formulation has alumina silicate in it to allow it to handle higher heats. we began testing this material because we wanted to be able to test a range of materials in the lab. We are working to UL testing for RMH's and that means we are getting a number of things ready for testing as well as the scrounge type RMH (old bricks, old pipe, perlite and clay insulation, Etc).
We will be trying to also get some folks trained up to do installs for folks who CANNOT do owner builder duties. when the testing is done on the shippable cores We will splinter that off to another person.

The materials for the shippable units must be tested for a year (sorry folks but its why my stoves work well). We cannot hurry this along, Paul asked us to show prototypes and we have done so but it also means everyone will have to wait till I am satisfied with the durability and burn results.

love you all and please dont fight over this.
Erica and I are working as fast as we can with what we have.
allen lumley
pollinator

Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 2720
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
    
  40
Ernie Wisner : Thank you very much,this helps a great deal, tho frankly I for one am surprised everyone appears so calm about this !

I for one would still like to see some sketches / pictures if possible ! Pyro -Allen L.

allen lumley
pollinator

Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 2720
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
    
  40
Ernie : Just for clarification so I/We know that we are using the words right-,

Refractory means it has mostly insulating properties, ability to handle hi temps. light weight and not as durable to abrasion

Ceramic means durable, usually hard 'rings like porcelain' able to hold high temps traditionally made from clay

the only thing that they might share in common is made often made by high temp processes

If this isn't right , than color my face red !
Ernie Wisner
volunteer

Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 788
Location: Tonasket washington
    
  23
thats the way i learned it. so yes you are right as far as i know. I will get a picture or two up soon currently we are trying to get things back to normal after being gone for the summer.
Andor Horvath


Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Posts: 91
    
    1
Hi all,
finally logged in, I have lurked for a while on this and other boards.
Thanks to all who have shared their expertise.
I'll have some insights to share soon on my casting efforts.
In the mean time, Nate shared this on another thread and kindof let the cat out of the bag...
http://www.hightemptools.com/supplies-mainpage.html


we CAN build a better world
allen lumley
pollinator

Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 2720
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
    
  40
- has anyone had any luck finding Irc-100 on the site Nate posted, a simple google search also found nothing
Chad Sentman


Joined: Mar 11, 2013
Posts: 118
    
    6
I'd like to know where to sign up to buy one and when they are expected to become available for purchase.


Waste Away is a documentary film that explores the waste management practices of various cities and seeks to eliminate waste from our lives. https://www.facebook.com/WasteAwayFilm

See more of my film and video work at https://www.film.actionhouse.org and http://www.PermacultureVOICES.com/video/
 
 
subject: recent podcast mentions shippable Ceramic Rocket Mass Heater Core ?
 
cast iron skillet 49er

more from paul wheaton's glorious empire of web junk: cast iron skillet diatomaceous earth sepp holzer raised garden beds raising chickens lawn care flea control missoula electric heaters permaculture videos permaculture books