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Paul Needs Land

Jon Trask


Joined: Aug 07, 2011
Posts: 8
I am working with Paul on his land search and we are starting a big push to find the right piece. We have some very specific criteria we are looking for and want to make sure we check all of the possibilities. If you know of any available land within 1 hour of Missoula that fits the criteria listed below please e-mail me. jon@richsoil.com Also if there is anyone that has a piece of land that is not currently listed for sale but would be willing to part with it and see it turned into a piece of Permaculture art let me know.

80+acres
mainly south or south west facing
Sloped or Rolling
Good tree cover
Springs or ponds
No traditional ag practices
No high tension power lines
No flood plane

paul wheaton
steward

Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 14987
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
    ∞
I would say that we have a strong preference for about 200 acres. 80 is the minum. We have looked at stuff as large at 640 acres.

Right now, we are only considering stuff within an hour from the missoula airport.

We don't want to get too close to a busy road.

We seem to be focusing a lot of effort right now on Mineral county.

Jon, maybe you can list off some of the properties that we have rejected so far?



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Chris Kott


Joined: Jan 25, 2012
Posts: 796
Location: Toronto, Ontario
    
    9
Hey guys. I just want to side with you, Paul, on the size issue. Size really does matter, jokes aside, at least that's the opinion I've made based on a lot of the stuff of which I've been made aware through this fine community. Providing you can fill all the criteria, and assuming for the sake of argument your objective was to basically build a giant suntrap with appropriate thought to raising humidity using prevailing winds blowing over long ponds, I would expect that as the area of your influence increases, the number of hardiness zones at the hotttest part of the property would go up. I could just imagine what you could do with a square mile or four up a sheltered hill or low mountain slope with a gentle grade.

As to property acceptability, I haven't gotten a straight answer on this, but I have posted in two places an observation I made that a steep slope might more easily and securely terraced if black locust saplings are let grow for a season or two, or as long as it would take to get the saplings to a size sufficient to act as anchors when topped and buried on the slope with hugelkultur. The seed-grown black locust topped at, say, two-thirds the height of the intended beds would remain rooted, holding the logs and organic matter forming the hugelterrace in place on the slope until the logs lose their structure, by which time the soil-holding root mats of the plants that you plant for said purpose will long since have taken over.

By this long-winded method, you might be able to make use of property otherwise too steep for consideration, unless my reasoning slipped a cog somewhere.

Just my two cents (Canadian), good luck with the property search!

Oh, and I was only recently made aware, the Canadian system of judging plant hardiness zones, while parallel to that used by the states, is slightly more complicated, which results in a more precise grading, which you might see as handy in a variety of ways trying to get land to do all it is capable of doing. I could see it being very helpful when compiling data on a property, both before and after you get at it, to see what specific microclimate you might be dealing with and how you've changed it (and please gather as much hard data as you can, I honestly believe that it will not only help others, but it will also help you make more informed decisions on-site) to determine beforehand what kinds of food you can grow. It is my thought that if you get yourself a big enough property, your efforts will far outreach your expectations. Orange groves in Missoua, anyone?

-CK
Kane Jamison


Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 104
Location: West Seattle, WA
Paul,

I have yet to see a good breakdown by a permie of their requirements for a piece of land. This is a good start:

  • 80+acres, larger preferred
  • mainly south or south west facing
  • Sloped or Rolling
  • Good tree cover
  • Springs or ponds
  • No traditional ag practices
  • No high tension power lines
  • No flood plane
  • Not next to busy roads


  • Obviously you probably have other requirements, and this is just the entrance requirements for a property to be considered. I'm hoping you can come back later and share (A) any other disqualifying aspects of a property and (B) other ideal aspects of your property that you'll be looking for while touring the property.


    I'm Kane, I have a site called Seattle Homestead that focuses on urban homesteading.
    John Polk
    steward

    Joined: Feb 20, 2011
    Posts: 6495
    Location: Moving to: NE Washington USDA zone 5 Western steppes to the Rockies
        
    133
    Here's one from an old time friend's father:

    "If the sage brush don't already grow waist high, the land ain't worth plowing."

    Miles Flansburg
    steward

    Joined: Feb 03, 2011
    Posts: 2208
    Location: Zones 2-4 Wyoming and 4-5 Colorado
        
      56
    Jon, and Paul, Here is a website that I have used for years that seems to have a lot of listings in Mineral county. Thought you might want to take a look.

    http://www.landwatch.com/default.aspx?ct=r&q=Mineral+county+montana&type=13,12&pg=2&r.PSIZ=80,


    You can refine the search on the left hand side of the page.
    Miles
    Mary James


    Joined: Mar 18, 2011
    Posts: 140
    Location: NW MT Zones 4/5 Rollins Mt
        
        2
    We have a small piece for sale down in the area on the river at Tarkio.
    But not sure about any larger pieces ..The family may know of something or someone if you can give me an idea of preferred pricing..
    Josiah Garber


    Joined: Nov 22, 2011
    Posts: 11
    Jon Trask wrote:

    80+acres
    mainly south or south west facing
    Sloped or Rolling
    Good tree cover
    Springs or ponds
    No traditional ag practices
    No high tension power lines
    No flood plane



    Why south or south west facing? I always thought it would be nice to have south or south east facing. Just curious what the rationale is. I figured that if the slope faces south east then you would get the morning sun when it is cooler and the afternoon shade when it is hotter.


    <a href="http://www.thefarmingpocast.com" rel="nofollow">The Farming Podcast</a>
    <a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gardenplantingcalculator" rel="nofollow">Garden Planting Calculator</a>
    Chris Kott


    Joined: Jan 25, 2012
    Posts: 796
    Location: Toronto, Ontario
        
        9
    Now I'm not suggesting anything by my query, but I was wondering if there was a post out there that covered the rationale for Missoula over anywhere else in the world. The numbers I'm hearing in terms of cost per acre in the target area might warrant asking the question. In an attempt to start an answer to my own question, my guess aside from the bicycle-friendly and otherwise-enlightened views I hear engendered in the area, and a certain level of comfort, I seem to recall hearing that the feeling was that to go anywhere with more preferable growing conditions would make for a less striking example of what can be accomplished by Wheaton Permaculture (has a term been coined yet? someone should get around to it before some unimaginative individual just goes and calls it something silly like, oh, I don't know, Wheaton Permaculture or something, and it sticks). But by that reasoning, doesn't a North-American analog of what Sepp Holzer is working on in Siberia make sense? I mean, if a much larger chunk of land could be purchased in a different place, perhaps, for instance, a more continental climate where winters may either be colder, or have more snow, or have both, alternately, but also where the summers are tropical?

    My observations are perhaps counterproductive to the end of narrowing in on a single property, but I always seem to offer the contrary opinion. But perhaps selfishly, I would like a more extensive list of what makes the perfect property for you, Paul, and the reasoning, if you don't mind. I'm another one who has listened to all the podcasts, and I'm on the forums a fair bit, so I think I have a fair idea of what you've said on the matter. I think it might be helpful if, in a post or in a podcast, you were to perhaps address the issue in as complete a manner as you can, so as to help those trying to help you to find the best place possible, but also to help those of us trying on whatever level to do what you're doing with property owership and land stewardship to understand what has gone into informing your decision-making process, why you're choosing your particular path, and perhaps why and how we might do differently.

    In any case, good luck with the search!

    -CK
    Tim Southwell


    Joined: Nov 07, 2011
    Posts: 87
    Location: Hamilton, MT
    Paul / Jon,

    Perhaps I can shed some light on your search as it pertains to your hunt... at least as the Bitterroot Valley is concerned. You see, my wife & I just went under contract for our future farm in Hamilton, where we will commence immediate Permaculture Design principles this fall. The B'root Valley is a gem, and land size you are hunting for is most difficult to come by. We should know, as our initial search is very similar to your own. We looked at properties from 80 to 200+, but they all had a million dollar plus price tag and came with either covenants or conservation easements rendering the potential limited to say the least. The MLS was a joke, as values are inflated and selection is not worthy of your time.

    We found our gem through a rancher / broker who is connected to the community and does his research. This 75 acres was in the possession of an outfitter for the last 40 years, and never found its way on the MLS... rather listed through an independent broker. Might I suggest a call into Lee Foss (Foss Realty) and / or Ron Conklin (Conklin Realty). These guys know there stuff and won't sit back waiting for the phone to ring.

    We feel we came away with a terrific property, but we are still paid just under $800K for the land. It sits in the valley bottom, has awesome water rights, has the Republic ditch flowing through it, terrific south facing views and 4 large fields (presently hay ground, though soon to be transformed to nut & fruit guilds), lots of old rotting Cottonwoods and Poplars for Hukelbeds and swale implements, and it is but a 5 minute drive max to town!

    As a PDC graduate out of KC this past fall, it is our dream to now establish a well operated permaculture farm consisting of perennials and livestock. I have recently hired a Land Manager who starts this fall to assist with the endeavor. He is a PDC grad and will receive his teachers training this August. In 2013, we will look to open the farm, ABC Acres, up to the public for various workshops to assist with design implements and brainstorming on new ideas. All of this morphing to our ultimate dream to have a Permaculture Institute / Educational facility in the heart of the B'root; Offering classes, workshops, PDC training, special guests (aka you and others) and potential overnight accommodations.

    So back to the land hunt... have you determined a budget you are working under for land acquisition? Have you formulated the vision for this piece of land... I would very much like to see it. Is a smaller tract possible, knowing that synergies might be in play to develop a network of permaculture sites (aka ABc Acres) for growing the publics awareness and know-how of Permaculture principles? I also have a 20 acre piece and 1 acre in-town lot, both located in the south valley, for eventual Permaculture demonstration sites.

    Lots to consider, I know. Our search took the better part of 10+ months. Keep up the search and I will look forward to meeting you both in the near future... perhaps this coming Wednesday evening in Missoula, correct?

    All the best,

    Tim

    tim@abundanttomorrow.com
    www.facebook.com/abundanttomorrow


    Tim Southwell

    www.facebook.com/abcacres
    Mary James


    Joined: Mar 18, 2011
    Posts: 140
    Location: NW MT Zones 4/5 Rollins Mt
        
        2
    Hello,,,

    If you want our help in the Mineral county area we need details...The family goes back a couple of generations down there and everyone knows everyone.Our family holds a fairly large private ranch in the area...But with out some actual concepts of funding we cannot even begin to check into the private none listed lands through the family...

    Mary and James
    Jon Trask


    Joined: Aug 07, 2011
    Posts: 8
    Kane Jamison wrote:Paul,

    I have yet to see a good breakdown by a permie of their requirements for a piece of land. This is a good start:

  • 80+acres, larger preferred
  • mainly south or south west facing
  • Sloped or Rolling
  • Good tree cover
  • Springs or ponds
  • No traditional ag practices
  • No high tension power lines
  • No flood plane
  • Not next to busy roads


  • Obviously you probably have other requirements, and this is just the entrance requirements for a property to be considered. I'm hoping you can come back later and share (A) any other disqualifying aspects of a property and (B) other ideal aspects of your property that you'll be looking for while touring the property.


    The list of things that could disqualify a property are very long. For what we want to do almost anything could be a negative but some of them we may have to live with. Things like mineral rights, easements, government programs that have been put in place, neighbors, local industry (current/historical), ease of access (winter/summer), available water, building codes, etc are all good things to look at. Some of them could disqualify it instantly others we may just have to plan for.
    Jon Trask


    Joined: Aug 07, 2011
    Posts: 8
    Josiah Garber wrote:
    Jon Trask wrote:

    80+acres
    mainly south or south west facing
    Sloped or Rolling
    Good tree cover
    Springs or ponds
    No traditional ag practices
    No high tension power lines
    No flood plane



    Why south or south west facing? I always thought it would be nice to have south or south east facing. Just curious what the rationale is. I figured that if the slope faces south east then you would get the morning sun when it is cooler and the afternoon shade when it is hotter.


    Being south west facing allows frozen plants to warm gradually so they are not damaged when they get hit with the intense heat of direct sunlight in the morning.
    Jon Trask


    Joined: Aug 07, 2011
    Posts: 8
    Chris Kott wrote:I was wondering if there was a post out there that covered the rationale for Missoula over anywhere else in the world.
    -CK


    The short answer... because Missoula is AWESOME.
    The long answer... because there is a community and a culture in this area like nowhere else I have seen.
    The climate challenges do add an interesting angle to it. If permaculture works in an area that is considered a high desert it takes a lot the the opposing arguments away. Paul has mentioned most of his reasons for wanting to be here in his podcasts but if you want more info than that we may be able to convince him to do a short podcast on "Why Missoula is awesome."
    Jon Trask


    Joined: Aug 07, 2011
    Posts: 8
    Tim Southwell wrote:Paul / Jon,

    Perhaps I can shed some light on your search as it pertains to your hunt... at least as the Bitterroot Valley is concerned. You see, my wife & I just went under contract for our future farm in Hamilton, where we will commence immediate Permaculture Design principles this fall. The B'root Valley is a gem, and land size you are hunting for is most difficult to come by. We should know, as our initial search is very similar to your own. We looked at properties from 80 to 200+, but they all had a million dollar plus price tag and came with either covenants or conservation easements rendering the potential limited to say the least. The MLS was a joke, as values are inflated and selection is not worthy of your time.

    We found our gem through a rancher / broker who is connected to the community and does his research. This 75 acres was in the possession of an outfitter for the last 40 years, and never found its way on the MLS... rather listed through an independent broker. Might I suggest a call into Lee Foss (Foss Realty) and / or Ron Conklin (Conklin Realty). These guys know there stuff and won't sit back waiting for the phone to ring.

    We feel we came away with a terrific property, but we are still paid just under $800K for the land. It sits in the valley bottom, has awesome water rights, has the Republic ditch flowing through it, terrific south facing views and 4 large fields (presently hay ground, though soon to be transformed to nut & fruit guilds), lots of old rotting Cottonwoods and Poplars for Hukelbeds and swale implements, and it is but a 5 minute drive max to town!

    As a PDC graduate out of KC this past fall, it is our dream to now establish a well operated permaculture farm consisting of perennials and livestock. I have recently hired a Land Manager who starts this fall to assist with the endeavor. He is a PDC grad and will receive his teachers training this August. In 2013, we will look to open the farm, ABC Acres, up to the public for various workshops to assist with design implements and brainstorming on new ideas. All of this morphing to our ultimate dream to have a Permaculture Institute / Educational facility in the heart of the B'root; Offering classes, workshops, PDC training, special guests (aka you and others) and potential overnight accommodations.

    So back to the land hunt... have you determined a budget you are working under for land acquisition? Have you formulated the vision for this piece of land... I would very much like to see it. Is a smaller tract possible, knowing that synergies might be in play to develop a network of permaculture sites (aka ABc Acres) for growing the publics awareness and know-how of Permaculture principles? I also have a 20 acre piece and 1 acre in-town lot, both located in the south valley, for eventual Permaculture demonstration sites.

    Lots to consider, I know. Our search took the better part of 10+ months. Keep up the search and I will look forward to meeting you both in the near future... perhaps this coming Wednesday evening in Missoula, correct?

    All the best,

    Tim

    tim@abundanttomorrow.com
    www.facebook.com/abundanttomorrow



    I have noticed a lot of the same issues and am trying to find some local people that know how to find the properties that aren't listed. There is a vision for the land and its not necessarily as a permaculture demonstration site. Innovation and community will most likely be the primary goals. If we are able to do more than that all the better.
    It sounds like you have a very interesting project happening and I look forward to meeting you on Wednesday.
    Jon Trask


    Joined: Aug 07, 2011
    Posts: 8
    Mary James wrote:Hello,,,

    If you want our help in the Mineral county area we need details...The family goes back a couple of generations down there and everyone knows everyone.Our family holds a fairly large private ranch in the area...But with out some actual concepts of funding we cannot even begin to check into the private none listed lands through the family...

    Mary and James


    PM Sent
    Kyle Williams


    Joined: Jul 09, 2009
    Posts: 46
    Location: Portland, OR
        
        3
    In a very recent podcast, Paul mentioned a kickstarter that had something to do with him getting land. Anyone have an idea what the name of that kickstarter is? Or perhaps have a link? I doubt I could convince my girlfriend to move to Montana so we could join Paul's community (which I would totally love to do), so the next best thing I can do is support Paul in his search.

    Thanks!
    Jocelyn Campbell
    steward

    Joined: Nov 09, 2008
    Posts: 2550
    Location: Missoula, MT
        
      62
    Kyle Williams wrote:In a very recent podcast, Paul mentioned a kickstarter that had something to do with him getting land. Anyone have an idea what the name of that kickstarter is? Or perhaps have a link? I doubt I could convince my girlfriend to move to Montana so we could join Paul's community (which I would totally love to do), so the next best thing I can do is support Paul in his search.

    Thanks!


    No kickstarter for the land search just yet, Kyle. Paul has been busy, busy with other projects and now the tour is almost upon us. (Ack! I still have lots to do for that.) I'm sure you'll hear in multiple ways - the dailyish e-mail, this thread, FB, and more - when a kickstarter is launched.

    In the mean time, the support is really cool - I think Paul would say that, too. Stay tuned.

    Hands-on workshops in all shades of green - Cascadia & Seattle Eco Events Calendar | QuickBooks Consulting and Accounting Services - www.jocelyncampbell.com
    Adrien Lapointe
    steward

    Joined: Feb 23, 2012
    Posts: 2404
    Location: Kingston, Canada (USDA zone 5a)
        
      73
    Just checking on how the land search is going. I hope it is going well.

    Looking forward to see the artist at work!


    Permaculture Kingston
    Edward Jacobs


    Joined: Apr 01, 2012
    Posts: 37
        
        1
    This site has a LOT of land listed:

    http://www.landsofamerica.com/america/?Search=region

    You can sort by county after you get the whole state's results.
    Jocelyn Campbell
    steward

    Joined: Nov 09, 2008
    Posts: 2550
    Location: Missoula, MT
        
      62
    Edward Jacobs wrote:This site has a LOT of land listed:

    http://www.landsofamerica.com/america/?Search=region

    You can sort by county after you get the whole state's results.


    Thanks Edward. Though in this Nov. 1 post by Paul in the paul wheaton community thread, he announced that his offer on a piece of land was accepted, and the paperwork was being worked out. More updates soon.
    paul wheaton
    steward

    Joined: Apr 01, 2005
    Posts: 14987
    Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
        ∞
    About three months went into attempting to buy 83 acres. We struck a deal and the other guy needed to do the paperwork. Only every version of his paperwork he gave himself candy. "Just sign it!" Finally we agree on paperwork. We get to closing and he has changed the paperwork again to give himself more candy. Apparently he thinks that this is acceptable behavior.

    So the search continues.

    Responding to a lot of the stuff here that hasn't been covered yet:

    landwatch and landsofamerica: yup, have spent huge tracts of time there

    Mary: thanks for thinking of us - yes, a bigger chunk is needed

    Might I suggest a call into Lee Foss (Foss Realty) and / or Ron Conklin (Conklin Realty).


    Are these guys bitterroot only?

    budget


    Currently looking at stuff up to a million bucks with terms. The 83 acres we almost purchased was $290,000. It had a cabin and some outbuildings. So about $3000 per acre for land with thick soil and dense forest. But after the closing failed, I learned that the land is probably riddled with heavy metals. So now that is another thing to test for before closing.

    We are seeing a lot of land that has been recently logged for less than a thousand dollars an acre. There was even one piece of land that had a decent home on it and it was still under $1000 per acre (too many little negatives).


    kickstarter


    It turns out that kickstarter does not allow kickstarters for real estate.

    But there are other things that I will be trying in this space.
    S Bengi


    Joined: Nov 29, 2012
    Posts: 1021
    Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7, AHS:4, Rainfall:48in even distribution
        
        5
    Its ok if need more fund thru kickstarter to send me a pamplet/email about about hugelkultur or just plain picture of the land for $100+
    jil chipman


    Joined: Jan 30, 2013
    Posts: 10
    are you SURE you wouldnt like to move to northern california? i have 269 acres in trinity county that i've decided to sell. i've lived there and protected it for 30+ years. it is stellar. much milder climate than montana, but still rugged and wild. you SURE
    paul wheaton
    steward

    Joined: Apr 01, 2005
    Posts: 14987
    Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
        ∞
    jil chipman wrote:are you SURE you wouldnt like to move to northern california? i have 269 acres in trinity county that i've decided to sell. i've lived there and protected it for 30+ years. it is stellar. much milder climate than montana, but still rugged and wild. you SURE


    I doubt I could afford it.

    Plus, to change the world, I need to be able to say "this house requires no heat - in montana" and "this lemon tree is grown outdoors - in montana". If either of these say "california" then people imagine sandy eggo. Even if you try to say "the mountains of northern california" they still think of someplace really warm, so the accomplishment is no big deal.

    jil chipman


    Joined: Jan 30, 2013
    Posts: 10
    paul, i get it. ... i think i COULD make this affordable... so if you, in your travels, run into someone looking for a place to do perm., please remember that i'm here. jil
    Nick Kitchener


    Joined: Sep 24, 2012
    Posts: 333
    Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
        
        6
    paul wheaton wrote:...But after the closing failed, I learned that the land is probably riddled with heavy metals. So now that is another thing to test for before closing...


    I guess that explains the sellers odd behaviour lol!

    Some folks are strange for a reason Paul.
    jil chipman


    Joined: Jan 30, 2013
    Posts: 10
    yikes! this recent post by nick makes it seem that it's a response to my post about land in northern calif. ... i probably AM strange, but want to clarify that the property does NOT have heavy metals!
    S Bengi


    Joined: Nov 29, 2012
    Posts: 1021
    Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7, AHS:4, Rainfall:48in even distribution
        
        5
    LOL, so funny
    Nick Kitchener


    Joined: Sep 24, 2012
    Posts: 333
    Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
        
        6
    LOL I wasn't aiming at anyone here. Unless the person Paul was going on about wanting to add candy to the deal every time they re negotiated is on the forum.

    Hadn't thought of that!

    Damn you autocorrect...

    Linda Sefcik


    Joined: Feb 17, 2013
    Posts: 72
    Location: Central Oklahoma
    Small business loan to start a tree nursery??
    I went to the Small Business Administration website once for information...
    what they call "small" was something like $25 million to start a factory.
    Well, it takes a factory sometimes a couple of years before it begins to
    produce and even attempt to make a profit.

    Isn't there a market for heirloom fruit and nut trees

    "The eyes of the future are looking back at us and they are praying for us to see beyond our own time."
    --- by Terry Tempest Williams, naturalist
    Elena Vor


    Joined: Mar 09, 2013
    Posts: 3
    jil chipman wrote:are you SURE you wouldnt like to move to northern california? i have 269 acres in trinity county that i've decided to sell. i've lived there and protected it for 30+ years. it is stellar. much milder climate than montana, but still rugged and wild. you SURE


    Jill, I am looking for property all over the US. I would like to speak with you and see what the opportunity with you is looking like. Can you contact me? email is DevushkaElena@gmail.com

    Elena
    John Rogers


    Joined: Mar 23, 2013
    Posts: 11
    FNG. Second post.
    paul wheaton wrote:
    Plus, to change the world, I need to be able to say "this house requires no heat - in montana" and "this lemon tree is grown outdoors - in montana".

    First Mike Oehler, and now this statement. I just shifted from mild interest to intrigued.
    John Rogers


    Joined: Mar 23, 2013
    Posts: 11
    paul wheaton wrote:

    It turns out that kickstarter does not allow kickstarters for real estate.

    But there are other things that I will be trying in this space.

    There are a number of crowdfunding sites. How many email subscribers do you have? I'm guessing quite a few. How many of those people are social networking? I smell the potential for viral exposure when you manage to find yourself a suitable chunk of ground.
    Heather Brenner


    Joined: Jan 21, 2013
    Posts: 26
    Location: Helmville, Montana
    If you haven't already found the place you want, you maybe ought to have a chat with Bobbie Twite, at Twite Realty in Missoula. We just bought 40 acres between Helmville and Drummond (a little over an hour out of Missoula, but not that much over) for under $60K, on a south-facing slope, with live water, off-grid. Bobbie is agent for a LOT of land right in that neighborhood, including at least another 40 adjoining ours (maybe more). If she doesn't have one piece of land that would do, she might be able to combine adjoining ones. We'll be getting busy up there as soon as the PDC is over, maybe before, and will be homesteading up there.
    Alana Bliss


    Joined: Jan 18, 2013
    Posts: 16
    Location: Finca Fruición, Costa Rica
    Would you consider Costa Rica?


    Natural Building Course - Jan. 9th, 2014
    Creative Kid's Camp -
    Costa Rica
    Come learn and play with us.
    www.fincafruicion.com/naturalbuilding
    Adrien Lapointe
    steward

    Joined: Feb 23, 2012
    Posts: 2404
    Location: Kingston, Canada (USDA zone 5a)
        
      73
    Alana,

    in podcast 001 Paul explains his preference for cold climate permaculture and why he wants to settle near Missoula.
     
     
    subject: Paul Needs Land
     
    cast iron skillet 49er

    more from paul wheaton's glorious empire of web junk: cast iron skillet diatomaceous earth sepp holzer raised garden beds raising chickens lawn care flea control missoula electric heaters permaculture videos permaculture books