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If you raise Pigs, is THIS cause for alarm?

Brendan Getchel


Joined: Mar 26, 2012
Posts: 23
Location: North Alabama
Walter, et al.

Can you envision such a thing coming to VT and elsewhere? I know feral pigs ARE a legitimate problem, but is this just another excuse for government incursion and restriction against small farmers?

DISCLAIMER: I'm not alarmist by nature. I know we landed on the moon and passenger jets collided with big buildings in NYC.

Wholesale Pig Extermination based on hair color:
http://www.naturalnews.com/035372_Michigan_pigs_farm_freedom.html

I only know what I know, and don't know what I don't. So if I sound ignorant, trust your instincts.
Walter Jeffries


Joined: Nov 21, 2010
Posts: 893
    
  17
What's going is pure greed and bullying by those in control of government - Big Ag. It's crazy, unscientific and a blatant trampling on the Constitutional rights. But, it's easy to understand. It is all about greed and cutting out the competition. What is particularly, almost, amusing is that Big Ag feels threatened enough to have pushed for this. As I said, greed.
Cj Verde


Joined: Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 1822
Location: Vermont
    
  31
Brendan Getchel wrote:Walter, et al.

Can you envision such a thing coming to VT and elsewhere? I know feral pigs ARE a legitimate problem, ...


I doubt it. Vt seems fairly pro-small farmer/farmers market and so on. There are also lots of groups who would make a stink about it. Transition Towns, Various Grass Based farming associations, NOFA-VT and so on. I could see UVM protesting as well.

I do have a funny story though. A friend bought a bunch of pigs and two escaped. They went right through the electric fencing. I asked them if Vermont had feral pigs and she said "no." I said "they do now!"

Actually, the pigs hung around and came back at feeding time.


My project thread
Rene Bagwell


Joined: Mar 28, 2012
Posts: 6
Location: SW Montana
Remember: just as with GMO seeds, "if you can control the food supply, you can control the population". Is this an alarmist view point? I don't know for sure but SHOULD we be alarmed by this article? Yes.
Jonathan Fuller


Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 29
I think this is an important opportunity to check multiple news sources.

I found this article http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2012/03/post_289.html

This quote particularly popped out at me

"Nor does the invasive species order, aimed at reducing Michigan's feral swine population, include domestic swine breeds such as those that have found a niche market among chefs and foodies."

I am not saying that this is not an attempt by some rich and powerful people to restrict the freedom to do what you like on your own land but the issue of invasive species is a real one. And feral swine can cause unreal damage to what, in michigan, is still some fairly un-ruined natural ecosystems.

There are plenty of places around the world where wild boar are available for 'sportsmen' to shoot and there are plenty of actual native wild animals in michigan for hunters to shoot.

The article the OP posted was extremely alarmist in my opinion. It attemps to conflate a set of defined descriptive characteristics of 'wild boar' genetics with genocide. As a life long vegetarian I am totally behind the idea that raising a population of sentient animals with the intent to slaughter and eat them is some what genocidish but...

Were (and they may have done this) the michigan wildlife department to issue an order defining milfoil as an invasive species and making an effort to remove it from lakes and ponds would there be articles about plant genocide?

Walter Jeffries


Joined: Nov 21, 2010
Posts: 893
    
  17
Beware of drinking the Koolaid. Government press releases can kill you. The actual government ruling is that the judgement of feral-domestic is based on phenotypic traits. The phenotypic traits they use will mark domestic heritage pigs as wild. Further more both groups are really the same species. This is not scientific. Warning, Warning, they're from the government and they're not here to help you.
Jonathan Fuller


Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 29
Walter Jeffries wrote:Beware of drinking the Koolaid. Government press releases can kill you. The actual government ruling is that the judgement of feral-domestic is based on phenotypic traits. The phenotypic traits they use will mark domestic heritage pigs as wild. Further more both groups are really the same species. This is not scientific. Warning, Warning, they're from the government and they're not here to help you.


I respectfully request that you refrain from accusing me of 'drinking the koolaide' for looking at more than one source of information.

I think it is absurd to pass a law saying you can raise X, Y, and Z breeds of an animal but not M breed. but the person in charge of enforecing said policy has publicly stated that he would not attempt to sieze or destroy heritage breed swine. If that policy is not being followed then a concerned citezen should try to get attention drawn to the issue. If, however, you publish an article essentially accusing the enforcement personelle of genocide I do not think you will make anyone except a very small group of like minded citezens take serious notice.

I think that an article laying out the shortcomings of the bill in a clear, concise, non-inflamatory way would accomplish more than an article railing against the powers that be for being evil.

I'm a homebrewer and luckily I live in a state that is very willing to allow me to follow my hobby. However there are homebrewers in other states that break the law everytime they mash in. They are fighting these laws and in states where the laws are changing it is always because a well organized civil group of people go to the politicians and explain their concerns clearly. Laws get changed this way. Does it always work? no but it does sometimes. And calling people names rarely does.

I hope I have maintained a civil tongue in this response. I feel for those farmers that are suffering becuase of this law and, while I wish people would stop treating the rest of the animal world as chattle, I also wish that policy could be written in such a way as to be fair to people who are honestly trying to live in a good, contructive way.

**EDIT**

another thought. Could laws like this not be used to prevent the planting of GMO crops with potential for gene drift? very little is as invasive as a snip of germ plasm that can leap species lines and create 'super weeds' ehh?
Walter Jeffries


Joined: Nov 21, 2010
Posts: 893
    
  17
Don't over react or be so sensitive. I didn't accuse you of anything.
Jonathan Fuller


Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 29
Walter Jeffries wrote:Don't over react or be so sensitive. I didn't accuse you of anything.


Okay, I obviously mistook the 'Beware of drinking the koolaid' comment as something you did not intend. apologies.

Ivan Weiss


Joined: Dec 19, 2009
Posts: 152
Location: Vashon WA, near Seattle and Tacoma

"Nor does the invasive species order, aimed at reducing Michigan's feral swine population, include domestic swine breeds such as those that have found a niche market among chefs and foodies."


Mark Baker of Bakers Green Acres begs to differ. His are the pigs in question, and he is telling us, in no uncertain terms, that the state of Michigan damn sure IS trying to put him out of the hog business.

I recommend reading Mark Baker's Web site and watching the various videos he has produced to support his position.


Pastured poultry, pork, and beef on Vashon Island, WA.
Ernie DeVore


Joined: Aug 19, 2012
Posts: 24

A feral pig is, by definition, one that is running wild. Since my pigs are not running wild they are domesticated pigs, not feral. Since they are not feral they are not under government jurisdiction or control.

If you're going to be a farmer or producer of any sort, the first thing you need to realize is that the government is not your friend. They don't like you. They hate you. They hate everything you do. They will prevent you from doing it if they can.

That said, don't let them know what you're doing. Don't register your livestock, don't invite the county extension agent to your property, don't interact with people who participate in government-sponsored agriculture. Keep a relatively low profile about what you do and ask nothing from the government.

Then when they show up at your home it will be as invaders, not business partners who have suddenly turned on you. You don't change government by teaching them. You change government by teaching people who will then change their government.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://richsoil.com/email
 
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