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Sad (angry) turkey and chicken news

Jeanine Gurley
steward

Joined: May 23, 2011
Posts: 1385
Location: Midlands, South Carolina Zone 7b/8a
    
    6
This afternoon all of the chickens and one of the hen turkeys were killed by a pack of 6 dogs that came through the back fence and then tore into the chicken and turkey pens. The Tom was attacked but apparently has only suffered a bunch of missing feathers. No more fresh eggs for us!

The angry part is that this has happened before and it is neighbors who don't restrain thier dogs during the day because we live in the country and it is 'O.K.' to just let your dogs roam.

The sheriff that showed up said that it was obvious that we had done everything we could do to keep the birds secure and from now on if we feel our animals are in immenent danger to just shoot the dogs whether they are in our yard our outside our fence. That is all well and good but I shouldn't have to do that in the first place. I had dogs for many years and always made sure that they were either fenced (securely) or on a runner and they were never a threat or menace to anyone else. As a matter of fact it was the dogs here that threatened my 16 year old lab in his own dog house.

Sorry for the rant but trying to be self - sustaining, at least in the animal department is proving to be somewhat difficult. We lost all of our rabbits the same way a few years ago.


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Saybian Morgan
volunteer

Joined: Apr 22, 2011
Posts: 580
Location: Lower Mainland British Columbia Canada Zone 8a/ Manchester Jamaica
    
    7
Sorry to hear there was nothing you can do, when dog's get into a pack it's like there no longer dogs anymore. There was another thread on neighbors dog's and whether talking to them about letting dog's roam was appropriate. It went back and forth with some strongly feeling that we can't force other people to change but we can teach them the consequences of ignorance the hard way. I wouldn't want to shoot a dog either, and it never happens when your home. Reading this makes me feel like I can build a triple fence duck run all I want, as soon as they go out free range some obscure weakness in my fence a half acre away is going to let someone with blood lust on range. I guess the reason some including myself most of the time arn't sympathetic in the realm of dog's is because I deal with predators all the time I can't blame human attitudes on. I have coyote's howling all night at my driveway, bear's that walk straight through fencing, eagles that circle all day, raven's that circle all day, racoons that go from the tree's to my roof and in, and we even had a cougar show up in my neighbors yard. So I already have a mentality that if they get my ducks it's my fault and also nature harvesting my abundance, so i don't really feel different about mad dog's that come from hill billy's. I had to add barbed wire around my bee hives, I don't like it but it beats shooting a dog even if the law is on your side. I know even with my double electric fence my defense skills suck in a world where ppl can get mugged going to a family restaurant. What I do feel for is the loss of your loved ones, it just sucks to come home one day and find they had to leave this earth via savagery. I've been lucky, I've been home to run out at the bear in my sox seconds before he chomped my duck, I happened to be photographing the moon the night the racoons came, I happen to be standing there when my neighbors doberman and rottweiler decided to gang push over my fence. I was also there two days later after a round of electric fencing that zapped them in the nose real good.
I've spent more on defense than i've spent on clothes in the last 3 years.

I'm only saying this cuzz anger hurt's the person who's angry, the bastard dog's and their owners are sleeping without a care in the world tonight.
Blue Dog


Joined: May 03, 2011
Posts: 51
I don't have any advice but want to affirm that you are in the right. You shouldn't have to choose between shooting dogs and protecting your own pets and livestock. I would be tempted to trap the loose dogs and shave them up like poodles with a note attatched. Maybe that would get their owner's attention.

Taylor Stewart


Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 45
    
    2
I had a similar wild dog problem about a year ago. The neighbor just let his dogs run. I couldn't bring myself to shoot them, but i did shoot over them and they took off. After that I built a pretty simple low tensile electric fence around the chicken's area. Some simple metal posts with slider style insulators and steel t-posts for corners is all it takes. Low tensile wire is cheap, so I ran 4 wires starting 6'' high. the fence was tall enough that a dog would try to go under (especially if they are trying to sneak up on some chickens), but it was low enough that I didn't need a gate. I bought the strongest plug-in fencer I could justify (rated to 30 miles)....that fence carried between 12,000-14,000 volts. No more dog problems! If you make the area large enough, the hens may even respect the fence.

Sorry to hear about your problem, wild dogs are never fun.
Sandra Ellane


Joined: Nov 08, 2011
Posts: 71
Location: New Mexico high desert Zone 7a, alkaline soils. 9" average annual rainfall.
Such heart-wrenching news Jeanine. When I lived outside the city the same stuff would happen, and no one around here can let their run free because everyone else lets their dogs run free.

Here inside the city it's cats. There are at least 6 cats that roam my neighborhood, killing the birds in my trees, and pooping in my yard. I was close to getting traps, but I've noticed the mouse population is not as bad as before so I'm letting them go.

But I'm planning on getting chickens sometime and I'm worried about the cats, as well as any dogs that get loose in the neighborhood.

Saybian has some good points- we have coyotes here too, as well as hawks. I know I'm going to have to go with a chicken tractor and I won't be able to let them run around in the yard.


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Dale Hodgins
pollinator

Joined: Jul 28, 2011
Posts: 3511
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
    
  40
When I was a kid we had a "problem" family down the road, whose dogs wouldn't allow children to pass along the road on their way to school.

When they refused to do anything about it, I dealt with it harshly. I treated it as a military campaign. There was property damage, one dead dog, and threats which they wisely heeded. Don't mess with a 13 year old. They have too much time on their hands.


QUOTES FROM MEMBERS --- In my veterinary opinion, pets should be fed the diet they are biologically designed to eat. Su Ba...The "redistribution" aspect is an "Urban Myth" as far as I know. I have only heard it uttered by those who do not have a food forest, and are unlikely to create one. John Polk ...Even as we sit here, wondering what to do, soil fungi are degrading the chemicals that were applied. John Elliott ... O.K., I originally came to Permies to talk about Rocket Mass Heaters RMHs, and now I have less and less time in my life, and more and more Good People to Help ! Al Lumley...I think with the right use of permie principles, most of Wyoming could be turned into a paradise. Miles Flansburg... Then you must do the pig's work. Sepp Holzer
kent smith


Joined: Sep 05, 2010
Posts: 211
Location: Pennsylvania
You might want to take the nieghbors to small claims court for damages. I would go for what ever is the maxium for your court system. If they do not show up for the hearing it should be granted to you by default. Then just turn it over to a collection service. you might not ever see any money, but it should make an impression on the neglegent pet owners. And shoot the dogs anyways!
kent


Kent
Fred Morgan
steward

Joined: Sep 29, 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Northern Zone, Costa Rica - 200 to 300 meters Tropical Humid Rainforest
    
  11
Electric fence around, single strand. Put pieces of meat tied to the electric fence (bacon works well if you get some cheap stuff). Dog bites electric fence, it won't kill the dog, but it will wish it had been killed. The dog will never come near again.

It is what we do for sheep when there are coyotes in the area.

If you are lucky, maybe the owners will bite the electric fence... :


Sustainable Plantations and Agroforestry in Costa Rica
Jeanine Gurley
steward

Joined: May 23, 2011
Posts: 1385
Location: Midlands, South Carolina Zone 7b/8a
    
    6
Fred, I LOVE your idea.

We already have double strands of electric fence around the coop for night time but today I bought a new larger charger and hooked up the whole yard. It had previously been electric when we had a dog (since we didn’t allow our dog to roam).

We have lost count of the dogs that we have killed in our yard but the owners just keep getting more.

I am definitely going to do the bacon thing.

I have to use wildlife control where I work and it is always the case that training/deterrents work better on wildlife than depredation (killing). So I guess we’ll try a few training sessions with bacon 
Craig Dobbelyu


Joined: Dec 22, 2011
Posts: 857
Location: Maine (zone 5)
    
  22
Have you considered pepper spray? Once a dog has ONE encounter with that stuff they usually leave that area alone. The only problem with killing the dogs is that the neighbor just replaces it with another stupid dog. Teach the dogs a lesson that won't kill them and they'll be sure to head your warnings. Hell, Spray the owner too if need be. Some people only learn when it really hurts. And that's really a sad fact.

Best of luck

I'd keep it out of the court system unless that's your last resort. Going through that system is just no fun... even if you win. Plus, the neighbor will still live near you causing MORE STRESS.

"You may never know what results come of your action, but if you do nothing there will be no result”

-Gandhi
Scott Roy


Joined: Apr 15, 2012
Posts: 7
Have you tried electric fencing? Even just a thin wire around your enclosure at oh, nose level would keep those mutts from trying.

Is electric fencing not permie enough?
Maybe hook the wire up to a windmill or bicycle generator. You can ride and watch the dogs yelp and run away time and again!


That neighbor should be ashamed of themselves. I don't let my dog out of the yard, but if he did and killed someone's egg-layers, I'd feel obliged to replace them. Since they haven't offered, maybe losing in small claims court would help urge them to contain their stupid dogs.



Or... shoot them all. No dogs, no problem. Shoot, shovel and shut up. I couldn't do that, TBO, but it crosses my mind when I hear of these things happening.
Burra Maluca
Mother Tree

Joined: Apr 03, 2010
Posts: 3951
Location: Portugal Zone 9 Mediterranean Climate
    
130
This is the only thing we've found that seems to work - the infamous 'sodding great electric fortress'.



It runs around the entire poulty area, within which are various pens and runs for breeding stock and young stock, while others roam free in the main area but are confined to chicken houses overnight, just in case. So far, since this was installed, we haven't lost any poultry to predators.


What is a Mother Tree ?
Lloyd George


Joined: Jan 25, 2012
Posts: 159
I have had to shoot dogs here for the same reason...it too one time of the cage being ripped open and the meat filling sucked out...oddly, haveonly had to do it once.

will have to again soon. I am hunting a wild bitch and her pups that have gone feral here...bulldogs too..yay.
David Goodman
volunteer

Joined: Dec 14, 2011
Posts: 322
Location: Zone 9a/8b
    
  13
Boy... that's awful.

I would shoot the dogs, then chop them into bits and feed the bits to the chickens. You know, just harnessing all the energies on my property...


Permaculture, bio-accumulators, rare plants, tool reviews and lots and lots of gardening inspiration - a new post every day: http://www.floridasurvivalgardening.com
Robert Ray
volunteer

Joined: Jul 06, 2009
Posts: 1311
Location: Cascades of Oregon
    
  12
I haven't had a dog problem for the last few years. I have had in the past though. The last occurence I shot the offending neighbors dogs with a paintball gun when we had a discussion about the incident I remained resolute that the next offense would be the last offense. The neighbors dogs have never been of their property since. The paintball strikes are painful and a clear inidication that it could have been lethal.


"There is enough in the world for everyones needs, but not enough for everyones greed"
(Buckman)
Jay Green


Joined: Feb 03, 2012
Posts: 587
    
    8
SSS...works every time.
ape99 McCoy


Joined: Oct 25, 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Austin,TX
Sorry about your birds.

Rock salt load and apply liberally with shotgun. Shouldn't kill them but will get their full attention.

Or setup the cage so you can trap them, then call animal control.
The neighbor will have to go bail out each and every dog...would be costly.

ape99
paul wheaton
steward

Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 14187
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
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Shep Wallaby


Joined: Apr 11, 2012
Posts: 16
Location: Northern Rivers NSW Australia
Blue Dog wrote:I don't have any advice but want to affirm that you are in the right. You shouldn't have to choose between shooting dogs and protecting your own pets and livestock. I would be tempted to trap the loose dogs and shave them up like poodles with a note attatched. Maybe that would get their owner's attention.



I laughed when I read this, the mental picture of dogs returning home shaved lolololol Brilliant!

I live in country NSW and the standard understanding is that any dog caught harassing stock of any kind earns a bullet. Don't get me wrong, I would not relish shooting a dog, but that is the outcome when people do not respect the place they are living, or the dog, or the neighbours. There are people's livelihoods at stake.

A hot wire with a good jolt sounds like the prime idea in terms of protecting your stock, but it does nothing to educate the dog owners.

Trap and shave....now THAT is fantastic. OR trap and turn the dog over to the authorities so the owners have to identify collect and pay could be an idea too.


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