Permies likes plants and the farmer likes Planting Honey Locust from seed permies
  Search | Permaculture Wiki | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login


(the sound is wonky for the first 20 seconds)

daily-ish email

micro heaters

rocket mass heater

wofati

permies » forums » growies » plants
Bookmark "Planting Honey Locust from seed" Watch "Planting Honey Locust from seed" New topic
Author

Planting Honey Locust from seed

Nicholas Mason


Joined: Dec 05, 2011
Posts: 77
Location: Colton, Or
    
    1
I got some Honey Locust seeds from my grandmother which I am going to plant in a food forest that I am starting. I have seen, read, and heard about adding certain bacterias to legumes and other nitrogen fixers to help them be more productive. I have not done much research in this area but have heard you want to use different bacteria's for different plants. 1. Is this wrong. 2. If it is correct does anyone have any idea what type of bacteria I should add with the Honey Locust.


Please check me out. http://www.dandeliondreamspermaculture.com
Jordan Lowery
volunteer

Joined: Sep 26, 2009
Posts: 1527
Location: zone 7
    
  11
nitrogen fixing plants only fix nitrogen because of nitrogen fixing bacteria, this is why people say to inoculate peas and beans before planting, the same goes with the locust. although you dont NEED it, it helps.


The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. - Masanobu Fukuoka
tel jetson
steward

Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 2980
Location: woodland, washington
    
  49
if you can get some dirt from around your grandma's honey locusts, that should provide the microorganisms in question. there's no consensus about honey locust actually fixing nitrogen, though. the root nodules that generally indicate rhizobium symbiosis are absent from honey locust, so if it does fix nitrogen, it's through a different mechanism than other familiar legumes. certainly a useful tree, quite apart from the nitrogen question.


find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
Cj Verde


Joined: Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 1833
Location: Vermont
    
  31
I will be attempting to plant HL from seed this spring as well. You don't need bacteria but I believe it needs scarification.


My project thread
tel jetson
steward

Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 2980
Location: woodland, washington
    
  49
I've had good germination after scarifying with a file, then soaking overnight. seeds that swell get planted, those that don't soak a little longer until they do.
Nicholas Mason


Joined: Dec 05, 2011
Posts: 77
Location: Colton, Or
    
    1
I guess to better clarify my question what exactly should i inoculate the seeds with. Also I heard that soaking the seeds in i think it was 120 degree water for about 30 min is supposed to help with germination. From what I read when using scarification you are supposed to put them in wet sand for 5 or 6 weeks in the fridge. Although if you are getting results just soaking over night I think I will try your way as well. I really wish I had a cow or horse that I could feed the seeds to and let them naturally plant them for me, but alas I only have goats. I read that sheep and goats actually digest the seeds.
tel jetson
steward

Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 2980
Location: woodland, washington
    
  49
Nicholas Mason wrote:I guess to better clarify my question what exactly should i inoculate the seeds with. Also I heard that soaking the seeds in i think it was 120 degree water for about 30 min is supposed to help with germination. From what I read when using scarification you are supposed to put them in wet sand for 5 or 6 weeks in the fridge. Although if you are getting results just soaking over night I think I will try your way as well. I really wish I had a cow or horse that I could feed the seeds to and let them naturally plant them for me, but alas I only have goats. I read that sheep and goats actually digest the seeds.


I didn't inoculate with anything, and the trees are doing fine. if you do want to inoculate, I would suggest using dirt from near an existing honey locust rather than purchasing inoculant.

and there's a chance you're mixing up scarification and stratification. they're both methods of stimulating germination. scarification involves penetrating the seed coat physically, while stratification involves simulating seasonal changes by moist chilling for a period of time. in this case, scarification followed by soaking should be plenty. I used warm, but not hot water for soaking.
Nicholas Mason


Joined: Dec 05, 2011
Posts: 77
Location: Colton, Or
    
    1
I get the difference, from my quick search online when I first got the seeds it only gave the two ways for germination, the scarification and then leaving in moist sand for five or six weeks and the soaking in real hot water for like twenty min. Now the fact that you can successfully do it in another way means the internet was some how wrong. go figure. I think I will try a bunch of the different ways. Its like how Sepp says if you don't try something you wont actually know if it works or not. (not an exact quote)
PS i really appreciate the information you guys provided me with, and so quickly. Thanks
Nicholas Mason


Joined: Dec 05, 2011
Posts: 77
Location: Colton, Or
    
    1
I still would like to inoculate the seeds with something else. I would usually like the idea of using the soil from the parent tree, but my grandparents life on a golf course and I have little faith in what is in the soil.
tel jetson
steward

Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 2980
Location: woodland, washington
    
  49
it certainly wouldn't hurt anything to use some commercial legume inoculant, and that stuff isn't too expensive. if honey locust does, indeed, host rhizobium, it isn't known which species, so an all-purpose inoculant would likely have the best chance of being helpful. or you could try a mix of several. might be worth looking around for honey locusts growing elsewhere, too, to get some dirt to use.
Nicholas Mason


Joined: Dec 05, 2011
Posts: 77
Location: Colton, Or
    
    1
Thanks very good ideas.
Suzy Bean
steward

Joined: Apr 05, 2011
Posts: 940
Location: Stevensville, MT
    
    2
Paul and Jocelyn discuss Paul's CFL experiment and seed saving in this podcast.

Paul talks about seed scarification.


www.thehappypermaculturalist.wordpress.com
Cj Verde


Joined: Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 1833
Location: Vermont
    
  31
Success!

I poured hot water (175°) over seeds and let them soak for 3 days. I planted the ones that swelled and changed color (no inoculation) and 3 days later I've got some shoots! I've poured more hot water over the unchanged seeds and they are swelling too.

Next question: when to transplant?
Should I go by size of the seedling or outside temps (wait for warmer nights)?

For the next round of seeds I may try direct seeding outdoors.
Cj Verde


Joined: Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 1833
Location: Vermont
    
  31
To answer my own question - it seems you should transplant when they get to 4-6".

I recall a post where someone said they got a 90% germination rate on the seeds but most died after transplanting. Does anyone know who posted that? I'm trying to determine why the transplants died. I rarely seem to get the search engine here to work for me.
Yone' Ward


Joined: Feb 14, 2012
Posts: 135
Location: Springdale, WA USA - Cold Mediterranean Climate
We planted about 135 trees, about 80% survived the first year. We are still waiting for them to wake up this year to see if any live. We have them in plastic milk jugs with the tops cut off.


Just call me Uncle Rice.
17 years in a straw bale house.
Cj Verde


Joined: Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 1833
Location: Vermont
    
  31
Planted in the ground? What were the jugs for?
Yone' Ward


Joined: Feb 14, 2012
Posts: 135
Location: Springdale, WA USA - Cold Mediterranean Climate
Cj Verde wrote:Planted in the ground? What were the jugs for?
We planted them in dixie cups the first year, moved them to jugs the second year We'll put them in the ground this year.
David Goodman
volunteer

Joined: Dec 14, 2011
Posts: 322
Location: Zone 9a/8b
    
  13
Congrats on the little trees.

Does anyone know if you can get Honey Locust to grow in N Central Florida?


Permaculture, bio-accumulators, rare plants, tool reviews and lots and lots of gardening inspiration - a new post every day: http://www.floridasurvivalgardening.com
Cj Verde


Joined: Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 1833
Location: Vermont
    
  31
Here they are at 3+ weeks (or a month after soaking):
Honey Locust Seedlings

About 90% germination. I got some seeds on the ground at a parking lot and some from a hike in NY.

I think I'll try a test transplant today.

Here's the range of HL from wikipedia:

I doesn't show Vermont or NY so you could give it a try in Florida since it does fine in Louisiana.
Cj Verde


Joined: Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 1833
Location: Vermont
    
  31
Can anyone tell me when HL develops thorns? Age or height?
Anthony Anderson


Joined: Oct 08, 2012
Posts: 42
Location: Central Minnesota USA and Paris France
    
  15
I harvested these in mid october in paris france - I think they are hardy to zone four though - paris is warmer. Anyways, took them to the apartment, put a nail-file to them for about 15 seconds and soaked them. They got PLUMP. After sitting in a moist area for 2 day they popped tails. I was surprised how fast. No stratification needed whatsoever. I wouldnt mess with the water either unless you were doing more than 20? I am going to use these along with black locust and nanking cherries to create the edible fence around the property.


Growing Paradise on Planet Earth...Why Not? http://www.growparadise.com
Kathleen Sanderson


Joined: Feb 28, 2009
Posts: 943
Location: Near Klamath Falls, Oregon
Bringing up an old thread, since I've got a bunch of honey locust seeds to plant. We are not in the natural range, but they do grow well here if watered until they are established. My seeds came from a couple of huge old trees on the grounds of one of the area schools -- the trees are at the edge of the gravel parking area, and it doesn't look like they get any extra water at all. I'd like to know how long the seedlings can stay in pots without damaging the taproots? I want to plant them on my other property, but need to keep them here for a while, as I am not living on the other property yet. (Not safe to plant stuff over there until I'm living there and can keep an eye on things.)

Kathleen
 
 
subject: Planting Honey Locust from seed
 
Similar Threads
Black v. Honey Locust
All things Black Locust
Black locust in a food forest?
Invaders a monoculture?
Where to get Honey Locust
cast iron skillet 49er

more from paul wheaton's glorious empire of web junk: cast iron skillet diatomaceous earth sepp holzer raised garden beds raising chickens lawn care flea control missoula electric heaters permaculture videos permaculture books