Planting Honey Locust from seed

I got some Honey Locust seeds from my grandmother which I am going to plant in a food forest that I am starting. I have seen, read, and heard about adding certain bacterias to legumes and other nitrogen fixers to help them be more productive. I have not done much research in this area but have heard you want to use different bacteria's for different plants. 1. Is this wrong. 2. If it is correct does anyone have any idea what type of bacteria I should add with the Honey Locust.

nitrogen fixing plants only fix nitrogen because of nitrogen fixing bacteria, this is why people say to inoculate peas and beans before planting, the same goes with the locust. although you dont NEED it, it helps.

if you can get some dirt from around your grandma's honey locusts, that should provide the microorganisms in question. there's no consensus about honey locust actually fixing nitrogen, though. the root nodules that generally indicate rhizobium symbiosis are absent from honey locust, so if it does fix nitrogen, it's through a different mechanism than other familiar legumes. certainly a useful tree, quite apart from the nitrogen question.

I will be attempting to plant HL from seed this spring as well. You don't need bacteria but I believe it needs scarification.

I've had good germination after scarifying with a file, then soaking overnight. seeds that swell get planted, those that don't soak a little longer until they do.

I guess to better clarify my question what exactly should i inoculate the seeds with. Also I heard that soaking the seeds in i think it was 120 degree water for about 30 min is supposed to help with germination. From what I read when using scarification you are supposed to put them in wet sand for 5 or 6 weeks in the fridge. Although if you are getting results just soaking over night I think I will try your way as well. I really wish I had a cow or horse that I could feed the seeds to and let them naturally plant them for me, but alas I only have goats. I read that sheep and goats actually digest the seeds.

Nicholas Mason wrote:I guess to better clarify my question what exactly should i inoculate the seeds with. Also I heard that soaking the seeds in i think it was 120 degree water for about 30 min is supposed to help with germination. From what I read when using scarification you are supposed to put them in wet sand for 5 or 6 weeks in the fridge. Although if you are getting results just soaking over night I think I will try your way as well. I really wish I had a cow or horse that I could feed the seeds to and let them naturally plant them for me, but alas I only have goats. I read that sheep and goats actually digest the seeds.

I didn't inoculate with anything, and the trees are doing fine. if you do want to inoculate, I would suggest using dirt from near an existing honey locust rather than purchasing inoculant.

and there's a chance you're mixing up scarification and stratification. they're both methods of stimulating germination. scarification involves penetrating the seed coat physically, while stratification involves simulating seasonal changes by moist chilling for a period of time. in this case, scarification followed by soaking should be plenty. I used warm, but not hot water for soaking.

I get the difference, from my quick search online when I first got the seeds it only gave the two ways for germination, the scarification and then leaving in moist sand for five or six weeks and the soaking in real hot water for like twenty min. Now the fact that you can successfully do it in another way means the internet was some how wrong. go figure. I think I will try a bunch of the different ways. Its like how Sepp says if you don't try something you wont actually know if it works or not. (not an exact quote)
PS i really appreciate the information you guys provided me with, and so quickly. Thanks

I still would like to inoculate the seeds with something else. I would usually like the idea of using the soil from the parent tree, but my grandparents life on a golf course and I have little faith in what is in the soil.

it certainly wouldn't hurt anything to use some commercial legume inoculant, and that stuff isn't too expensive. if honey locust does, indeed, host rhizobium, it isn't known which species, so an all-purpose inoculant would likely have the best chance of being helpful. or you could try a mix of several. might be worth looking around for honey locusts growing elsewhere, too, to get some dirt to use.

Thanks very good ideas.

Paul and Jocelyn discuss Paul's CFL experiment and seed saving in this podcast.

Paul talks about seed scarification.

Success!

I poured hot water (175°) over seeds and let them soak for 3 days. I planted the ones that swelled and changed color (no inoculation) and 3 days later I've got some shoots! I've poured more hot water over the unchanged seeds and they are swelling too.

Next question: when to transplant?
Should I go by size of the seedling or outside temps (wait for warmer nights)?

For the next round of seeds I may try direct seeding outdoors.

To answer my own question - it seems you should transplant when they get to 4-6".

I recall a post where someone said they got a 90% germination rate on the seeds but most died after transplanting. Does anyone know who posted that? I'm trying to determine why the transplants died. I rarely seem to get the search engine here to work for me.

We planted about 135 trees, about 80% survived the first year. We are still waiting for them to wake up this year to see if any live. We have them in plastic milk jugs with the tops cut off.

Planted in the ground? What were the jugs for?

Cj Verde wrote:Planted in the ground? What were the jugs for?

We planted them in dixie cups the first year, moved them to jugs the second year We'll put them in the ground this year.

Congrats on the little trees.

Does anyone know if you can get Honey Locust to grow in N Central Florida?

Here they are at 3+ weeks (or a month after soaking):
Honey Locust Seedlings

About 90% germination. I got some seeds on the ground at a parking lot and some from a hike in NY.

I think I'll try a test transplant today.

Here's the range of HL from wikipedia:

I doesn't show Vermont or NY so you could give it a try in Florida since it does fine in Louisiana.

Can anyone tell me when HL develops thorns? Age or height?

I harvested these in mid october in paris france - I think they are hardy to zone four though - paris is warmer. Anyways, took them to the apartment, put a nail-file to them for about 15 seconds and soaked them. They got PLUMP. After sitting in a moist area for 2 day they popped tails. I was surprised how fast. No stratification needed whatsoever. I wouldnt mess with the water either unless you were doing more than 20? I am going to use these along with black locust and nanking cherries to create the edible fence around the property.