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January 05, 2009, 07:16:49 PM
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Permaculture Forums  |  substance  |  permaculture  |  Topic: Fish and Fishing « previous next »
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Fish and Fishing  

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alexisavoire
Posts: 120


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April 20, 2008, 03:40:43 PM

Fish are a renewable resource as are fishermen but fishermen are not the only consumers of the renewable resource they exploit for sustenance. This creates an imbalance in the renewability of the renewable resource. Since there are more consumers than fishermen which creates more fishermen than fishable regions (assuming the relocation of fishermen to new regions to prevent over-fishing) there is an imbalance of renewbility. Factor in the reduction of spawning grounds for various species (some to environmental pollution of waterways, seas and oceans, some to overfishing of streams and ponds, some to taking catch that is too young, pregnant or the wrong gender, some to the reduction of long-term gestation mammal-aquatics lumped under fishing) and the result is a rapidly reducing renewable resource.

We talk a lot about the need to reduce consumption while we increase our population density and reduce the environment in direct ratio to human expansion; the need to shift to renewable resources while we cut the renewable possibility out from underneath the resource and simultanously increase the consumption requirements through need (population), economics (price-wage-employment option of fishermen and all related jobs between ocean and fork) and want (now that it is renewable everyone thinks it's okay to switch to resource reliance that the resource was already unable to sustain to start with). Renewable resource takes a lot of factors to renew itself and if we consider one resource renewable but then prevent the other factors fom both doing their jobs of renewing their related resource(s) and successfully renewing themselves because we only identify "popularly recognized" renewable resources instead of realizing that all resources fall under the heading renewable resource and that consumption cannot be reduced when the population in question (ours) continues to renew itself at rates not in keeping with either its environment or the availability of renewable resources we see that we are sliding quickly down a slippery slope.

This doesn't even take into consideration the existence of other fish-eating creatures like bears or other fish or a whole list of mammals nearly invisible to us in their obscurity. When we make resources renewable then overtax them while undercutting them thus reducing their viability for the animal world as well as the human world and call this resource management we really endanger ourselves as a species.

Sticky situation. Food prices worldwide have gone up 40% since 2006. Starving third world countries are absorbing the initial impact but worldwide, we are all starting to feel the pinch. But we still think shark fin soup is a great idea: an overpriced bowl of soup with a fin cut from a shark that is in all other ways inedible and therefore unusable and the delicacy of a nation steeped in a long history of resource management (Japan). Hopefully, our learning curve improves soon.
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lkz5ia
Posts: 14

Fruitopia


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November 08, 2008, 07:20:47 PM

Fish is going to be a nice by-product of a creating a permaculture landscape.   I plan on building some ponds the old method way, then will stock them with fish to supply myself another source of meat.  But I'm working from the uplands and creating vernal ponds first and slowly moving down the valley. 
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Using permaculture ideas to further my independence and freedom in life, so I am able to resist wage slavery and inflation.
Leah Sattler
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Posts: 784

oklahoma


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November 10, 2008, 05:29:31 AM

If I could figure out a way to grow salmon here I would be all over growing fish for food. I'll probably have to stick with catfish, perch and bass of ponds though.
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Put a bit of sunshine in each day;
Others need its cheer and so do you-
Need it most when outer sky's dull gray
Leaves the sunshine-making yours to do.
                -"scatter sunshine" Jaunita Stafford
lkz5ia
Posts: 14

Fruitopia


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November 10, 2008, 12:02:40 PM

I'll probably just fish a neighbor's pond when I need some fish and I think that consists of bass, bluegill, and maybe crappie.   Also, our current pond has bullheads.   
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Using permaculture ideas to further my independence and freedom in life, so I am able to resist wage slavery and inflation.
paul wheaton
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Posts: 1471

western WA


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November 10, 2008, 01:19:59 PM

If you are in a warm area, what about tilapia? 

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lkz5ia
Posts: 14

Fruitopia


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November 10, 2008, 02:52:58 PM

Maybe Leah would be able to, not sure what her location is..but I live too far north for tilapia, unless would winter them over in a tank inside.  Hasn't even been above freezing for the past 3 days.     cry
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Using permaculture ideas to further my independence and freedom in life, so I am able to resist wage slavery and inflation.
Leah Sattler
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Posts: 784

oklahoma


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November 17, 2008, 06:12:14 AM

I probably could with some tweaks. I'm soon to be in Arkansas. I haven't had time to throroughly read through this site but it appears to by combining hydroponics and tilapia for a really cool system.

http://www.morningstarfishermen.org/fish.html
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Put a bit of sunshine in each day;
Others need its cheer and so do you-
Need it most when outer sky's dull gray
Leaves the sunshine-making yours to do.
                -"scatter sunshine" Jaunita Stafford
Susan Monroe
Posts: 521

Western WA


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November 17, 2008, 06:46:16 PM

The people who have tried tilapia say they are a very bland, rather tasteless fish.  What about catfish in Arkansas?  They taste good!

Sue
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Leah Sattler
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Posts: 784

oklahoma


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November 18, 2008, 06:19:57 AM

I can't taste much difference between cat fish and tilapia. they both require seasoning. Tilapia is excellent on the grill with a little cajun seasoning. I have stopped eating so much tilapia since the news about the reversed omega ratios, although I'm betting that is a result of the way they are fed in the farms. just as feed lot beef has bad ratios and grass fed doesn't as well as the eggs and milk from factory farms vs. grass fed operations. I'm sure I could grow catfish and several of the places we have looked at have ponds that I'm sure I could pull a few out of today.

http://www.eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm
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Put a bit of sunshine in each day;
Others need its cheer and so do you-
Need it most when outer sky's dull gray
Leaves the sunshine-making yours to do.
                -"scatter sunshine" Jaunita Stafford
Steve Nicolini
Posts: 117


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November 25, 2008, 01:31:24 PM

I would be interested in knowing the benefits of catfish vs. tilapia.  Not only human health benefits, but benefits to the water in the pond on your site, the aquatic plants, the invertebrates, etc. 
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