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November 21, 2008, 07:22:16 PM

Permaculture Forums | substance | critter care | Topic: question for joel: meat breed of chicken

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question for joel: meat breed of chicken

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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 1343

January 30, 2008, 07:19:17 AM

In Joel's books, the breed of choice is cornish/rock cross. For those that are not aware, this breed has several attributes the significantly separate it from the other breeds.

It's ready for harvest at 9 weeks - other breeds are generally ready in twice that long.

It has an excellent feed to meat conversion ratio.

The flavor is fantastic!

This breed tends to have a higher mortality rate (before harvest).

The birds are dumb and lazy. Other chickens will chase a grasshopper to eat it, but not a cornish/rock cross. And there's the rub. Might there be a breed that has all of the upsides, but is willing to forage more? One might reason that if the bird were to forage more, it might cut down on the feed bill.

So my question to Mr. Salatin would be: have you experimented with other meat breeds?

A quick trivia note: I asked about getting some at whole foods and they had no idea what I was talking about.


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kelda
Posts: 265

January 31, 2008, 11:01:02 PM

huh. funny that they're naturally lazy. i wonder if the forage-geared rotation kind of equals it out so they're more enthusiastic

on this same topic: what are the ducks that will Go AFTER a slug? sure, they eat them. but i'd want a duck that goes out of its way. at the bullocks i noticed the muskovee ducks and all the chickens like snails much better, but here in pierce county i've never seen a snail problem.

so the same question with duck: meat breed that likes to Chase slugs, you get the trophy.


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permie mama
Posts: 4

March 11, 2008, 11:37:17 PM

I have had chickens for about 10 years. That is, my own chickens rather than the ones shared with my family growing up.

I really like all of my girls, but I especially like my Salmon Faverolles. They make a nice meat and egg bird. I have had lots of different breeds but these are really nice.

Cornish/rock crosses are nice too.

Muskovees can be hard in some areas since they fly. My muskovees flew right over to the lake and never came back. cry

I have Indian Runners and a few mixed now that seem to like it here well enough.

The challenge out here is that the many predators like them too.


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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 1343

March 12, 2008, 06:45:34 AM

Predators: how much space do you have?

I solved the predator problem by getting a livestock guardian dog (great pyr).


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deberosa
Posts: 3

April 24, 2008, 07:18:26 PM

Hi,

I am new here but I really did not like the cornish/cross chickens - too nasty.

I am trying Dark Cornish Chickens. I got a batch last year and they were ready for harvest right around 12 weeks. They are a beautiful bird, not as meaty as the cross of course, but very tasty! They have a very thick skin so we didn't skin them like the cross, rather pluck and freeze whole.

I left the hens and a few roos and turned them loose in a brushy area I have. Put in a few dogloos and chicken tractors with straw for nests. I had one hen hatch out three chicks in March! Now I have several others on nests in various places so they will be self propogating. They clear the weeds and bugs and will not roost inside, rather they prefer trees in the worst of weather! I haven't had a mean rooster among them!

You can see some pictures of them on my blog at deberosahomestead.wordpress.com

Next I am going to try crossing them with my buff orpington layers to see what comes out...


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Check out my blog at: Deberosahomestead.wordpress.com

paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 1343

April 25, 2008, 02:57:23 PM

I couldn't really see a pic of them.

So they take a little longer ... and they are a little lighter when they are ready ... and they are tasty, but! Are they as tasty?

How are they at foraging?

Buff Orps are a lovely bird. Pretty. Easy going. Good brooders. Just a fantastic, all around farm bird. Except for two things .... they have a poor feed to meat conversion ratio and they have a poor feed to egg conversion ratio. This seems to be the case for nearly all dual breed birds. I raised lots of buff orps for a long time and mixed in some other nice breeds and started getting lots of interesting cross breeds. But the bottom line was that they just don't produce like the egg only breeds or the meat only breeds.

I guess if the mission is to just have some chicken and not worry about efficiency or profit, then buff orps are great. But once you start counting up income and costs ...


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deberosa
Posts: 3

April 25, 2008, 08:23:17 PM

Here is a link directly to their picture:
http://deberosahomestead.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/dark-cornish-chickens/dark-cornish-chickens/

Sigh, yes I am afraid efficiency is not my top priority here on Deberosa. I am just learning here. The Buffs are not for eating, just for egg laying and they do produce a bit better than others I have had in cold weather. I keep a light in their coop. I did get 6 sex links last week and they are in a brooder.

As far as the taste of the cornish - it's not the same as the cornish cross, the meat is richer and I tend to cook the birds whole with them rather than debone them. I like both but the cornish cross turn into such dirty sickly birds that I just don't grow them any more. They just didn't seem natural to me is all. The cornish are great foragers! I am clearing out parts of my property with them where I want the nice salal and huckle berry bushes - they scratch out all of the weeds in large areas. In their old area I threw down clover seed so in the fall I will switch them back to clean out the garden and eat the clover while I plant the other area. Works out for me. Once the orchard gets established I may try them in there, but they roost high in trees so that may be a problem.

I got my homestead in 2003. It was an old abandonned place. It took me three months to clear enough brambles to get to the back of the barn! I found a hen house completely set up so began my first experience with chickens. Of course I ordered a couple of everything from McMurray's. I let them Free Range - a little too free they were destroying everything! Gradually I've gotten fences put in and at least a bit of a method to my madness. Added a Dexter cow and was supposed to get three pigs today but that didn't pan out - they will be clearing another acre for me this summer for more pasture/forage growing.


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Check out my blog at: Deberosahomestead.wordpress.com

paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 1343

April 26, 2008, 11:15:23 AM

I hear what you are saying about the cornish-rock-cross. The first time I raised them, they got to about six weeks old and I thought "These are the ugliest, stupidist, laziest birds I have ever raised. By far! I am never going to raise these again!" And then I was shocked at how freaky big they were at 9 weeks. Harvesting them at nine weeks is pretty bizarre right there. Wow. And then I tasted the first one and "I'm raising these EVERY year!"

The taste is just that good.

So then it kinda comes down to how to mitigate all of the downsides.


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permaculture.dave
Posts: 113

April 29, 2008, 10:32:41 AM

I've been using the chart at the following link to get a feel for a bunch of different breeds. Perhaps people will find this a useful research tool:

Henderson's Chicken Breed Chart:

http://www.ithaca.edu/staff/jhenderson/chooks/chooks.html

Dave


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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 1343

April 30, 2008, 07:07:11 PM

Spiffy list Dave!

The varieties I didn't see on that list were the red stars and black stars.


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deberosa
Posts: 3

May 08, 2008, 04:43:20 PM

It says the cornish like I have are crossed with a "rock" to get the cornish rock cross. Anyone know if they are talking about a plymouth rock? Is it possible to breed your own cornish crosses?


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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 1343

May 08, 2008, 10:45:50 PM

I'm not certain, but I think the "rock" is a "white rock".

Yes! You can breed your own cross.


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Leah Sattler
Administrator
Posts: 597

July 05, 2008, 06:26:13 AM

well I have to go for effeciency mostly here but even at that I don't plan on doing the cornish/rocks again. I lost alot to leg problems even when feeding them to control their growth and that cancels out the excellent feed conversion ratio. and in order for them to be economically worth it my meat chickens need to forage for at least some of their own needs and the crosses are pathetic foragers. they can't fly and are more subject to predation and they really are just lazy. I plan to soon be getting a flock of dark cornish, they are supposed to be excellent foragers and good meat birds. I am happy with my barred rocks for layers and I suppose with the dark cornish around I could try my hand at a few of my own type of cornish/rocks if I get the hankering.


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Put a bit of sunshine in each day;
Others need its cheer and so do you-
Need it most when outer sky's dull gray
Leaves the sunshine-making yours to do.
-"scatter sunshine" Jaunita Stafford

paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 1343

July 18, 2008, 01:58:48 PM

I visited a farm that was raising the cornish rock cross. They were harvesting a lot of them at three weeks of age! It sounded like less than 10% made it to 8 weeks of age. That would cut waaaaaay back on your mortality rate.


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Leah Sattler
Administrator
Posts: 597

August 17, 2008, 05:39:10 AM

They are freaks aren't they! none of mine were worth butchering at three weeks but I made it a point not to feed them real hard too. I've heard thats what the little "cornish game hens" are in the store, the cornish/rock hens that are just a few weeks old. I'm going to stick with my dark cornish idea because I want to raise my own meat birds and not have to order them. It has cooled off way earlier than normal here (scary weird weather)so I need to get on a roll with them.

Darn. Mcmurray says they are sold out. I may have waited too long. I'll have to try some other hatcheries.
http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/product/dark_cornish.html


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Put a bit of sunshine in each day;
Others need its cheer and so do you-
Need it most when outer sky's dull gray
Leaves the sunshine-making yours to do.
-"scatter sunshine" Jaunita Stafford

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