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Farmers, Friends, and Tough Questions | (Read 580 times) |
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kelda
Posts: 265
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January 29, 2008, 09:39:32 PM |
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I would like others opinion on this tricky issue that may be easier to ask online than in a close community.
In a few communities, although I still tend to grow much of my own food, I'm friends with farmers and also their customer for things I don't grow. This is great, to be friends with the people who grow food. There's a transparency to the process that can't be beat, and a safety that the USDA could never regulate.
What I wonder about though are the tough questions. How much do I balance trusting my friend on one hand and on the other hand saying 'i'm an informed customer and the way _______ is done on this farm just doesn't seem right'.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about? The chickens that should be rotated a little more often? The pigs hanging out in the creek? The nitrates added to the pork? Or, as the case should I be a joel salatin customer, what's this business with advocating 'stocker' cattle? To be sent to the feedlot!!!???
I'm not so much wondering how to get the balls to say something, but if other folks, other farmers, have had situations like this and through their experience thought of some good guidelines to follow.
I've never yet had anyone criticize my food-growing for them, but I hope I'd be able to take it in stride.
Anyway, as Dumbledore said to Neville Longbottom "It takes courage to stand up to your enemies, it takes even more courage to stand up to your friends. "
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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 1342
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January 30, 2008, 07:11:05 PM |
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I know that when I visit farms I'm not bashful about asking those very questions. Only instead of saying "you should ____" I usually ask "why do you do it that way?" and maybe "So you're not concerned about _____?"
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pixelphoto
Posts: 44
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February 13, 2008, 02:52:49 PM |
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pauls answer is a bit more diplomatic and its always nice to not tell the farmer how they should be doing things. But like paul said ask questions as to why they dont do it this way or why they do things the way they do.
if the farmer doesnt give you the answer you like I would ask them do you know of anyone in the area who does it that way then? if so maybe you should move over to that farmer and buy from them.
I have people ask me all the time how I do things. Most buyers of local or oraganic produce are much smarter and much more educated now then in years past. I tell them exactly how i do things from buying seed to picking and bringing it to market. From a-z so to speak. If there is anything they dont like about it my feelings arent hurt and they are more than welcome to shop elsewhere. Chances are though they wont find anyone else who cares more about their crops and foods safety than me. I tell my customers i eat what I sell and that speaks volumes. I wouldnt want to eat chemical laden ecoli traced food anymore than they would. All my practices go well beyond what the usda organic practices are so Im pretty safe.
The biggest thing I get is why dont you grow this or that. If I dont grow something its because I dont like to eat it. LOL  I dont grow hot peppers because I dont eat hot peppers. I do eat bell peppers and I sell them.
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kelda
Posts: 265
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February 13, 2008, 09:20:53 PM |
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Thanks for the thoughts!
Have you ever had this conversation with close friends, years long friends, who are also customers? All the suggestions are great, but I'm asking more about intimacy, trust, and loving criticism. Of course I can shop elsewhere, but I'm wondering if farmer-critique kind of falls in the same category as critiques parents get about raising their children. It kind of doesn't, because it's the Community.
I see this question getting more important as community-supported gets more and more intimate. I'd like to hear a farmer's stories about when critique from customer-friends has been positive, or alternatively if it has ever ruined friendships. And what is the difference between the two.
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MJ Solaro
Administrator
Posts: 131
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February 23, 2008, 08:51:10 AM |
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Kelda,
I've never had to approach this situation from a farmer's perspective, but I have had to do the same thing many, many times in the business world. Make an outsider's suggestion (that's of critical importance), to somebody who is the owner, or expert of a particular business problem.
So far, the advice that has been issued is high-quality. If you have a close, trusting relationship with these individuals, then the way it is going to be received is all based on two things: 1) your approach to the conversation, and 2) their personality. Some people simply can't take constructive criticism, even when offered in the nicest way possible. Since you know these people well, you should be able to take a guess as to whether they fall in camp two.
As for the approach. The best way to subtlety insert your concerns is to approach the subject with deference and humility. Phrasing your concerns as questions is an excellent suggestion. Saying things like "help me understand why you do this..." and smiling is a great way to cushion the blow. Often, citing a neutral (even if fictional) third party will help, something like "I read this article the other day that said blah blah blah".
I'm interested though - do you think that you're going to sever your business relationships with these parties based on their responses?
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alexisavoire
Posts: 120
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February 24, 2008, 12:59:01 AM |
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Farmers operate on a (usually) thin profit margin. They are sensitive to the criticism of those who grow food and raise livestock for personal ethical or political reasons rather than for profit. They are, by and large, hostile to criticism on ethical grounds because they cannot afford to make such distinctions. Their main concern is the maximum product for minimum cost in overhead proportionate to healthy yield as a selling point for consumers. Even organic farmers must trade ethical considerations for yield-to-profit concerns. Even as a friend, unless your opinion is asked, it is probably a good idea to remain silent if you disapprove of practices and if you disapprove strongly enough taking your business (or exchange) elsewhere can speak loads eliciting a request for your opinion. Once asked you are free to opine.
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kelda
Posts: 265
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February 24, 2008, 05:39:37 PM |
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This is cool to see how this conversation goes, MJ and Alexis!
I smiled at the diversity in your two responses: MJ (kind of 'know your friends and you'll know how to say it') and Alexis ('as a friend don't say anything, but they may always ask you when you leave'). Because of course both are true.
I live in a county where there aren't That many choices, so in most cases I would stay with farmers who are doing the best that's available here. But if there is a choice, that's a different matter.
Even since I've formulated this question, the 'don't say anything but be a good friend' approach has changed (or maybe Opened) the conversation a bit. There's nothing like a lovingly raised eyebrow or empathy for someone frustrated in how to do things better. Like anything, there are some things I as a friend will have more empathy with than others. And especially more if I'm eating the product of it!
It's so tricky! Because at some point it comes to 'how close will we be friends if they don't care that _____ is happening on their farm?'. Sometimes I find that they do care, in other cases they may not.
This conversation is really important I think for CSA customers that have left a farm for a sustainability/social justice flaw in the farm, but have never had the conversation with the farmer about it. CSA customers get pretty close to their farmer, and I think it's sad for farmers to lose them.
I hope some folks from that situation hit up this site, and may have some feedback to give
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pixelphoto
Posts: 44
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May 06, 2008, 06:32:23 AM |
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kelda as you know everyone on this planet s different. its what makes the word go round.
You will have to size up your friend for yourself to see if they are easily hurt by your comments.
Some people have tough skin and understand. Most people who do business fall into this category. They realize they arent going to be able to please everyone out there. And they know they cant do it the way everyone else wants.
Some people take things very personally and will feel hurt but generally these people dont do well in business for very long. If you can take personal criticism you wont last long in business.
I had a friend who had a short lived subshop. He loved to create his own mayo mustard and other condiments from scratch. He would tell anyone the wonders of his homemade condiments over any store bought. He loved his home made creations so much he put them on all his subs. (ONLY ONE PROBLEM) He insisted I try one of his wonderful subs. He put on his homemade condiments. I told him to leave off the mustard as I dont like mustard. He put it on anyway stating this was different it was much better than store bought that I would like his.
One taste later I made a gosh awful face and spit it out in my hand. Yuck that was terrible I said as I ran for a glass of water. He took it personal. He said your joking right? I said um no I told you I dont like mustard. I cant stand the taste.
Apparently he thought I was just being mean and continued to put his home made creations on all his subs. He last 7 months in business then went under due to low sales.
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SueinWA
Posts: 313
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October 15, 2008, 04:46:14 PM |
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Many farmers operate on a low profit margin for mainly two reasons, as far as I can tell:
They spend more money on inputs than common sense would dictate. Buy a calf for $300, then spend a fortune buying feed for it, then wonder where the profit margin is?
They sell wholesale to another operation that really kicks the price up, instead of selling retail himself. Sure, it's easier to have some guy with a cattle truck pick up your steers, turn them into a filthy holding pen, and slaughter and butcher them with godknowswhat standards, if any. Sure it's easier than doing your own clean butchering and looking your customers in the eye. Sure, just take the check and stick it in the bank and hope it covers the bills.
Small farmers in particular need to get out that cheap product/low income mindset. Put a little money into improving your soil and pasture, then rotate your stock carefully, butcher it yourself and sell it retail. Fence off a few acres and grow a high-value crop instead of growing all the same low-income crap that everyone else in the valley is growing.
Just because your daddy did it for sixty years and worked himself into a pauper's grave doesn't mean you have to.
Like the man said, Don't work harder, Work SMARTER.
And the question you should ask is.... "Have you ever considered ... [fill in the blank]?" Some people have had their head down for so long they're never even considered an alternative. Maybe you'll be a flash of inspiration for them.
Sue
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« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 04:48:54 PM by SueinWA »
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SueinWA
Posts: 313
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October 17, 2008, 03:58:59 PM |
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Are you familiar with Joel Salatin's book, Everything I Want to Do is Illegal?
Sue
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