hiawatha McCoy

hey paul, why have you added McCoy to my log-in name, I don't think I am the only one...

the leaf can be chewed...anyone who will gulp down stinky root sections or pills, could perhaps take a little leaf without too much risk, I find that the taste is actually good and the effect is instantaneous, if mild...smells and tastes are an integral part of searching out food...if you do not like it, spit it out, if you do, practise moderation

bluesimplicity wrote:
   I am so confused about whether to insulate the floor.

I am trying to find a recipe for the floor also, would appreciate comments from any who have an existing greenhouse, and are fire bricks suitable for under the rocket mass heater..or do we need other insulation below?

tel jetson wrote:
maybe what we can learn from Oregon is similar to what we could have learned from pre-boom Ireland: a depressed economy isn't the same as depressed quality of life.

great post tel

I just wanted to repeat your statement in case anybody missed its sagacity

GPtech
yes the blackberries that we have in this area are rampant and permeate parts of the natural bush, and with birds & foxes (and people) finding them delicious, the seed spreads....they also spread by the canes layering naturally and the tips being pushed into the ground by animals
I put it to the local farmers group that we should be capitalizing on the natural goodness before our eyes, and controlling them in a non-poisonous manner, and reaping huge harvests....(the demand for our blackberry jelly is insatiatble)....their response was a blank look
which is hilarious in that once, when the local scientists wanted to develop an 'antidote' for the blackberry, they set up some trials (with government panic money) and THEY COULDN'T GET THEM TO GROW!!! HAHAHAHAHA

JadeQueen wrote:

Worms frequently ride into the house.  I took one of the trees to table at a trade show for the permaculture guild, and when I got home, a worm jumped out and made a run for it.  There wasn't anywhere for he/she to go, so I returned her/him to the pot. 

it is really quite easy to work out if the worm was a he or a she
she worms love to shop!
and that one was a little slow to the escalator!


your house sounds intriguing as a citrus greenhouse, perhaps post some pertinent pics

elmoelmo wrote:
  It's a godamn shame that this great design science has become the elitist, exclusive domain of a very few, instead of the world changing discipline it should be.   

elmoelmo, geoff lawton just about to graduate 120 more permies (in turkey)
would we want to restrict any of the activities of this guy?
not likely

eric, your house and aspect reminds me of a demonstration house built by bill mollison and his students at a university in australia as relayed to our class, and it was the perfect situation of a home and attached greenhouse, needed no added heating and cooling (temperate climate)
so lucky to have the slab and the sun!

go for it!

elmoelmo wrote:
Too many people use Permaculture as a vehicle to making money...always making sure they keep their 'interns'' learning curves long, so as to perpetuate their serfdom.  This deprives the world of what I believe Mr. Mollison would want.  Preach to the Choir, count your sheckles.  That ain't what is all about.

geoff lawton charges $6000 for 10 weeks as an intern

quite a number of students at my PDC were from parts of south america, and had never had their hands dirty, some went on to do an internship, money no object

the $6000 was probably better utilized at geoff's than in monsanto shares I suppose

still hard to see geoff as a bad guy

no need to fixate on the money

Cloudpiler wrote:
I think you've just nailed it.  Their is a difference between sustainable techniques and Permaculture.  I don't think that making gobs of money is the issue with most "farmers."  They should be more concerned with simple survival as a species.  Sustainable techniques can fulfill that purpose, or at least help, and the world is a better place with "Farmers" in it. 

Permaculture is a different animal though.  It is more than techniques.  I think that's why it isn't building in America the way it is elsewhere, or I should say, in the manner in which it is growing up in other places.  We live in a sound-bite culture.  Our inputs into our culture are largely the same as our inputs into our gardens - modular. 

I didn't get this until I actually began to see my food forest start to "Pop," as Toby puts it.  Until I began to be able to actually observe the biological interaction and entanglements in the system I had designed, am always designing, I tended to translate everything into it's relationship as a component.  It is hard to see a system as associations until it starts to act as a single organism.

Our Permanent Culture is a designed system that hasn't "Popped" yet.  The components are in process of placement, but associations have not yet formed.  It's almost like we were when we first dug our swales and built our berms, planted trees and shrubs...   Standing there on that first berm, looking out at the mess, I didn't get very teary eyed either.  My back hurt.  But call me whatever you like, standing there now, observing how the Farmer Trees really are providing for the community below them what it could only get from too much sun before, and the swale/berm system providing for the community what it could only get from too much rain, I have to admit to a spasm of emotion now and then.  It tried my patience, I'll warrant you, but now I see the value in the waiting.

I think that the above statements are very valuable
this forum includes many many people who are putting into practice hugeley valuable ideas which are being shared, and this gives each one of us expanded knowledge and references to follow up

experiences are valuable to a permaculturalist, including a PDC
I can think of at least 6 folk from my course who have set about improving different parts of the world by expanding permaculture principles, including china, greece, maldives, and have done so from the enthusiasm, contacts, impetus and confidence gained from the teaching and community extant at the course

others left the course (and entered it in some cases) with the desire to improve their own skills, circumstances and income from increased knowledge, and gained augmented ability to see past the 'obvious,' which inevitably comes from rubbing shoulders with genius

viable permaculture farms are what interests me, but who am I to say that translating the forward of the black book into chinese is not valuable!