<![CDATA[permies: Latest posts for the topic "electric tractor"]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/t/91/gear/electric-tractor JForum - http://www.jforum.net electric tractor
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]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/1635 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/1635 electric tractor tractor http://www.flyingbeet.com/electricg/

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/3388 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/3388 Re: electric tractor


]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/20809 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/20809 Re: electric tractor http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/20853 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/20853 Re: electric tractor
If you do a Youtube search for John Howe Solar Golf Cart there are a couple of excellent clips.

John Howe is a professor somewhere in Maine.  Took an electric golf cart, put PV panels on the roof, added a charge controller and an inverter, probably some other modifications.  A video shows him driving the golf cart into the woods, plugging in an extension cord, cutting a tree down with an electric chainsaw powered from the golf cart.

Pretty nifty rig.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/20890 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/20890 Re: electric tractor
If you do a Youtube search for John Howe Solar Golf Cart


Youtube says there are no matches.  Can you do the search and pass on the video link?


]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21160 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21160 Re: electric tractor tractor and solar MG.  I can't load the clip but this looks right.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21169 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21169 Re: electric tractor ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21300 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21300 Re: electric tractor There is a part of the clip where he says he put about $7k into it.  Not too bad a price for mechanized fuel-less transport.  I suppose one could attach things to the golf cart for added versatility. 

Its essentially a solar PV generator on wheels.  Electricity where you need it.  Did you catch the part about plugging it into his house if the power goes down?

If it can be plugged in, it can be powered by this rig.  Chainsaws, lawn mowers, brush trimmers, power tools, post hole diggers, pumps, all sorts of uses.

There are communities where golf carts are allowed on local traffic roadways.  I've used these things in some of the plants I work at to get around.  25 MPH is easy to do.  We have to put limit switches on them to stay under the sped limit of some of these places or the guys will tear up the road!  I've loaded them up with a couple of hundred pounds of tools and materials, electric and gas models. 

What if you added a trailer hitch?  Hauling cargo to a farmers market would be a fine use.

Theres another video somewhere with an electric tractor, same idea as the golf cart.  Probably not too many horses, so you wont be baling hay, but smaller implements would work for sure.  brush hogs, finish mowers, tillers, a boom.  Lots of versatility. 

I'm all for simplicity and sustainable methods, but there is nothing wrong with some darn handy machines.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21303 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21303 Re: electric tractor


Silent.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21325 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21325 Re: electric tractor tractor more weight.

Also, with electric, you don't ever get too far from your charger.

I was concerned about the use of tracks - but the idea is that you get more traction and your weight is spread out - so less compaction.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21443 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21443 Re: electric tractor tomatoes on 7.  We got to talking about tractors and fuel prices.  There are numerous projections that fuel prices will rise again.  The trend in food production is moving towards relocalization and at least all natural if not organic methods.  A solar powered electric tractor would be well positioned to take advantage of this developing trend.  Such a device need not be enormous.  Something able to plow and till a backyard garden would be in great demand.  The size would also be able to service a field of several acres. 

I'll be keeping this one in the back of my mind.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21506 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/21506 Re: electric tractor
well, I've been very slowly cleaning out the barn and that thing was taking up way to much space for something that didn't work.  so I took it to the dump.  psych your mind!  a few bucks for new keys and switch, $240 for six deep cycle six-volt batteries, a sore back from moving the batteries around, and it's right as rain again.  the roof is still busted up, but that should be easy to replace.

there's also a little trailer here that somebody bought to pull behind a riding lawnmower.  jury-rigged a hitch using a galvanized eye bolt and I've been hauling firewood around today.  I wasn't sure how the cart was going to handle towing, but it did fine.  I probably loaded up 300 pounds and I didn't notice any difference from when it was empty.  I suppose there are some fat golfers out there, so this shouldn't surprise me, but I was very pleased.  certainly not things I would have bought, but since they were already here I'm happy to use them.

I'm no electrical engineer, so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but could the charger (plugs into 120-volt AC) be modified to flow the other direction as an inverter?  using an electric chainsaw today would have saved me a pair of pants (don't ask).

Standard tractors usually fill the big tires with a liquid that gives the tractor more weight.


water and calcium chloride in my experience.  makes blowouts more interesting...

the one problem that's bothering me about these battery powered contraptions is the lead involved.  maybe it's negligible, but I can't help but think there's going to be some lead sulfate falling onto the ground at some point.  I guess proper maintenance and good design could prevent this altogether.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/24407 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/24407 Re: electric tractor
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/35269 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/35269 Re: electric tractor tractor made by G.E. back in the early '70s. We bought it for $100 but it had been abused with overfilled batteries, corrosion from that, and miswired relays. It's a 36-volt model running on GC-2 golf cart batteries and it charges from our home's PV panels. We added a bit more weight (70 lbs.) by bolting on a 36-volt inverter to run an electric chain saw. Mostly we use it for cutting the 1 cord of boxelder firewood that we use in a year and to mow some trails and orchard. It has a 42-inch mower, a grading blade, a 1-bottom plow, tire chains, and a 30-inch rotary tiller. The tiller is nice for cutting up a green manure crop after mowing it, but I'd never think about tilling on bare ground since a shovel or fork works so much better without over-fluffing the soil. You can see the tractor by clicking on our web page at http://www.geopathfinder.com/9659 , or there are more details found on links at that page.

Bob Dahse]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/38511 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/38511 Re: electric tractor
tel jetson wrote:

I'm no electrical engineer, so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but could the charger (plugs into 120-volt AC) be modified to flow the other direction as an inverter?  using an electric chainsaw today would have saved me a pair of pants (don't ask).



Sorry, but the answer is no.  The charger takes the AC and converts it to DC, a fairly simple task.  Converting DC to AC, not so simple.  Think of it this way: it's a simple matter to take your log and split it into pieces; it's quite a different matter to take those pieces and put them together into a solid log.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/38574 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/38574 Re: electric tractor
Inverters, though, are often built with on-board chargers. The Tripp-Lite APS 3636VR on our Elec-Trak E-15 tractor can charge the tractor's batteries at 20 amps OR it can run two AC circuits at 15 amps each. That translates to two electric chainsaws running at the same time, full power. Not that I'd need it but it's nice to have some reserve capacity to ensure durability. The biggest downside is modified sine-wave output instead of true sine-wave. The cheaper option was over $700. As bad as that was, the sine wave option is REALLY pricey!

Bob.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/39032 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/39032 Re: electric tractor
Walk wrote:
Nice analogy!
[font=Verdana]Thanks![/font]
Inverters, though, are often built with on-board chargers. The Tripp-Lite APS 3636VR on our Elec-Trak E-15 tractor can charge the tractor's batteries at 20 amps OR it can run two AC circuits at 15 amps each. That translates to two electric chainsaws running at the same time, full power. Not that I'd need it but it's nice to have some reserve capacity to ensure durability. The biggest downside is modified sine-wave output instead of true sine-wave. The cheaper option was over $700. As bad as that was, the sine wave option is REALLY pricey!

Bob.


One thing to point out: The cheapest and simplest DC-to-AC inverters used mechanical devices to "chop up" the DC to make AC.  The result is what's called a square-wave.  These kinds of inverters need to have a LOT of electrical shielding, otherwise the interference it produces will wipe out all radio communications in the area.  The resulting square-wave AC, for all intents and purposes, can only be used in tube-based electronics or incandescent bulbs.  Unless the motor is specifically designed to work with square-wave AC, square-wave AC will "seriously reduce the life" (i.e., burn out) your standard AC motor.  Modified (aka, "stepped" sine-wave AC can generally be used by both AC motors and most electronics.  Generating pure sine-wave AC from DC with any kind of efficiency is a non-trivial task, and is only a concern if you're using very expensive electronic equipment.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/39036 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/39036 Re: electric tractor .

I looked in vain for the 36-volt chainsaw that used to be available for the Elec-Trak but didn't find one. Besides the high cost of what's now a hard-to-find antique, I would have had to lug around a heavy cable to handle the low-voltage current. 120-volt is easier to use but inverters are their own trade-off, cost-wise and in efficiency loss.

Bob.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/39107 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/39107 Re: electric tractor
I don't see the need to put photovoltaics on each device (unless you are trying to sell solar panels).  Seriously why not just go with battery powered machines?  Then plug in the batteries at a central power supply when not in use.  In some cases photovoltaics may be the best power supply, in other cases not. 

One human on a bicycle can sustain 300W of power output all day long.  A horse easily sustains 740 W (1 hp), and can generate 10 hp at a peak pull.  If you can turn a wheel you can turn a generator.  People anywhere around the world can build this technology and it doesn't cost thousands of dollars.

Many people are deterred from going off the grid because they worry about having a perfect sine wave and the highest possible efficiency.  Cheap inverters are available at truck stops.  The wave form approximates a sine wave (definitely not a square wave) they work great for everything I've tested them on, including some pricey electronics.  TVs and stereos run on these cheap inverters and function perfectly with no distorted signal.   I can also tell you that the waveform coming out of a gasoline powered generator is noisy and irregular as all get out, yet construction workers run their power tools off that all day long without ruining the tools.  I have also observed that many devices work fine if the voltage is 20% above or below normal.  My point is don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  We can make these systems work far more cheaply and with more slop than anybody will ever recommend.  ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47253 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47253 Re: electric tractor
Regarding generators and inverters, the generators vary a lot depending on if they use straight motor output or run through an inverter. Motor output is a lot smoother than a cheap inverter. And the other name for a cheap inverter's output is "modified square wave". Modified sine wave sounds nicer, and more marketable, but the sad fact is that, depending on the amount of load and the rating of the inverter, sometimes it is indeed more like a square wave. This causes the steel plates in a transformer to move microscopically against each other, generating hum and heat. And motors heat up due to the harmonics and switching frequencies generated by the sudden rise and fall of the waveform.

Either way, yes, cheap inverters work but not for long (ask my next-door neighbor), and they wear out equipment pretty quickly. If you don't mind throwing away electronics periodically that's fine. But if you buy quality tools and electronics and expect them to last it's far better to use an old motor-generator inverter or a switching frequency filtered sine wave model. The best option is straight DC from a renewable source, whichever is most available in your location. Many AC electronic devices transform AC to low-voltage DC and you can tap into those secondary voltages or use cheap DC-DC converters to match what they require.

I love our DC-powered tractor, bikes, and car but I'd never consider equipment-mounted PV to be more than a trickle-charging source. Too much surface area is needed, at least with present technologies. We use our house PVs to charge all the portable stuff and that works great. If we had wind or water power we'd do the same.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47269 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47269 Re: electric tractor
Walk wrote:
We use an electric tractor made by G.E. back in the early '70s. We bought it for $100 but it had been abused with overfilled batteries, corrosion from that, and miswired relays. It's a 36-volt model running on GC-2 golf cart batteries and it charges from our home's PV panels. We added a bit more weight (70 lbs.) by bolting on a 36-volt inverter to run an electric chain saw. Mostly we use it for cutting the 1 cord of boxelder firewood that we use in a year and to mow some trails and orchard. It has a 42-inch mower, a grading blade, a 1-bottom plow, tire chains, and a 30-inch rotary tiller. The tiller is nice for cutting up a green manure crop after mowing it, but I'd never think about tilling on bare ground since a shovel or fork works so much better without over-fluffing the soil. You can see the tractor by clicking on our web page at http://www.geopathfinder.com/9659 , or there are more details found on links at that page.

Bob Dahse


Very cool!

Does it get decent traction?  Especially when plowing?  How are the batteries in the cold?


]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47827 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47827 Re: electric tractor
Mangudai wrote:
One human on a bicycle can sustain 300W of power output all day long.


??

I remember in high school a guy had rigged a 60 watt light bulb up to an exercise bike.  I remember that to get the light to glow even a slightly reasonable amount, you had to REALLY pump on that thing! 

Is there a video showing a bike and a bunch of bright light bulbs perhaps?


]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47828 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47828 Re: electric tractor
paul wheaton wrote:
??

I remember in high school a guy had rigged a 60 watt light bulb up to an exercise bike.  I remember that to get the light to glow even a slightly reasonable amount, you had to REALLY pump on that thing! 

Is there a video showing a bike and a bunch of bright light bulbs perhaps?


peak anaerobic output for reasonably active folks is generally well above 300 Watts.  10th percentile for men is around 570 Watts, and 90th percentile is over 800 Watts.  my guess is that there was substantial loss in the high school experience you mention.  could it have been under-geared?  was riding it like trying to pedal in a low gear downhill or like a high gear uphill?

those numbers are for anaerobic exertion, though, and it would be unusual for a person to sustain that peak output for more than a few seconds.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47834 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47834 Re: electric tractor plenty of traction with 6 heavy batteries on-board along with a 70 lb. inverter mounted low and centered. We are still using the original 1971 tires! We don't run it in the winter as batteries don't do so well then. No PTO, but it uses multiple 36-volt outlets front and rear for DC motor powered options. Those actually included snow-blowers, front end loaders, mowers, rotary tillers, chainsaws, etc. They aren't terribly hard to find and some of the folks I know who have one (or more) have switched from the original stepped speed control to an AllTrax PWM speed controller.

Regarding peak power output of humans, if you've ever tried putting out sustained wattage on a power cycle you'll quickly realize why humans started domesticating oxen and horses!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47922 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/47922 Re: electric tractor


This says 100 watts.  Another video claims 250 watts.  So a healthy person could do 300.  "All day long" may be a stretch. 

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/48181 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/48181 Re: electric tractor
Mangudai wrote:

One human on a bicycle can sustain 300W of power output all day long. 


so over 12 hours the power output would be 3600w/h which converts to 3095Cal thats output now assuming that we convert food to output at about 33% efficiency which I am sure is overgenerous the man doing this would need a 10,000 calorie a day diet
just playing with the math]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/48183 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/48183 Re: electric tractor
brice Moss wrote:
so over 12 hours the power output would be 3600w/h which converts to 3095Cal thats output now assuming that we convert food to output at about 33% efficiency which I am sure is overgenerous the man doing this would need a 10,000 calorie a day diet
just playing with the math


I lived with a professional bicyclist for a couple of years.  apart from his two-week break at the end of the racing season, he regularly ate well over 10,000 Calories daily, and he was thin as a rail.  he spent a lot of time and money preparing all that food.  over the winter, quite a bit of his training was on a set of rollers.  while I don't think he would object to those rollers driving a generator, one of the advantage of training on rollers is related to their lack of resistance.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/48484 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/48484 Re: electric tractor
Walk wrote:this figure includes all of the high-frequency transistor switching noise that motors and transformers simply convert into heat and vibration ("hum".


Good news!

While you can't (cheaply) build an inductor with zero electrial resistivity, the impedance of an inductive load is not dissipative: it stores energy as a magnetic field, rather than releasing it as heat.

You're right that the hum is from magnetostriction of the core material, which dissipates energy, but that's mostly un-related. Smoothing out of high-frequency aspects of the AC by motors and transformers is, in large part, accomplished by very briefly storing energy as a magnetic field, and bleeding it back into the circuit as electric current a very short time later.

I think the quoted efficiency figures are pretty much correct.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/48545 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/48545 Re: electric tractor pump would run all the time?

could use linear acutuators but the are slow and expensive for sizes you would need .

any ideas or thoughts?

I would love to build an elec tractor]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/50349 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/50349 Re: electric tractor tractor .. like a lot of myths on the Internet is a non starter if one thinks it is going to replace any existing fossil fuel tractor.

I have 3 EV's and in my opinion the watts are just not there to rip, plow , disc, cultivate or any other job that a  regular tractor does.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/50406 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/50406 Re: electric tractor I might be a little late finding this thread (and awesome forum), but in case anyone's interested I'm working on converting standard Farmall Cub cultivation tractors to 48v electric. I have one currently up and running, my 'working prototype,' and it seems to have enough energy in the battery pack to operate from 2-4 hours on a charge (depending on load). Website at http://www.reinventionsllc.com .]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/50774 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/50774 Re: electric tractor
jmy wrote:
Not to rain on your parade  , but the electric tractor .. like a lot of myths on the Internet is a non starter if one thinks it is going to replace any existing fossil fuel tractor.

I have 3 EV's and in my opinion the watts are just not there to rip, plow , disc, cultivate or any other job that a  regular tractor does.


So, the guy that is getting excellent results for a fraction of the cost, is actually ... not?

I remember reading stuff that an electric car could never go faster than a gas powered car and now we have the tesla - which goes faster than any porche, ferarri, corvette and most lamborginis. 

I think it is probably easy to create an electric tractor that sucks.  And, my impression so far, is that it is almost as easy to create an electric tractor that kicks butt on gas or diesel tractors.

If that is not the case, I would really like to understand why/how.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/50798 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/50798 Re: electric tractor
Check this out. In September and October 1947, the standard bone-stock Farmall Cub was given a thorough shakedown in  Nebraska Tractor Test No. 386. In the test, the highest fuel efficiency obtained was "10.94 horsepower hours per gallon of gasoline," operating the tractor at maximum load. With one horsepower equal to 746 watts, this converts to 8.16 kwh output per gallon of fuel consumed. That's a decent amount of energy, right?

Now: Chemically, a gallon of gasoline contains 33.4kwh of energy! What happened? Somewhere along the line, between tank and tires, we lost 25.42 kwh, almost 76 percent loss! I'm pointing at the ol' internal combuster, myself.

A noteable EV disadvantage comes from the way we can store electricity. Right now, it's pretty much restricted to chemical batteries. And they just aren't quite as energy dense as, say, gasoline. For a point of reference, the four large deep cycle, lead-acid AGM batteries I'm using to power my electric Farmall contain only 4.8kwh when fully charged. The batteries are the key puzzle of virtually any contemporary electric vehicle venture. However! This difficulty of storing a vast amount of energy as electricity is offset, at least partially, by the high efficiency inherent in electric drive systems. Even some of the worst electric drivetrains can still claim about 80% efficiency, or only 20% loss. And the best? Many are pushing 95% efficiency.

paul wheaton wrote:
I think it is probably easy to create an electric tractor that sucks.  And, my impression so far, is that it is almost as easy to create an electric tractor that kicks butt on gas or diesel tractors.

If that is not the case, I would really like to understand why/how.


Now for the hard part. You'll notice that, as above, a brand new gasoline powered farmall can apparently do over 8 kwh of work on a gallon of fuel, after inefficiencies. My electric conversion? Even if 100% efficient (it's not), can do about 60% of that work per charge. It would be a simple matter to double the size of the battery pack; much beyond that, though, space, expense, and excessive weight become concerns.

So, a good rule of thumb to gauge if you could use an electric tractor or not: if your gasoline or diesel equipment is running perfectly (this is important to use the comparison) and you use more than a gallon of fuel at a stretch (no breaks or idle time), then your work would likely be interrupted by recharging. If you dont use a gallon at a time, even if you take brief breaks, then you could potentially be charging your electric tractor. With inexpensive components and a 120v outlet, plan 2 hours of charging for every hour of moderate intensity use.

As far as instantaneous energy output goes, or how much 'power' the operator feels, the electric cub can at least equal its gasoline counterpoint- and so can any adequately sized electric drive system. Runtime, then, is virtually the only limiting factor between farmers and electric equipment, and with a well designed plan of implementation, might not be an issue at all.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/50818 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/50818 Re: electric tractor
Ken Peavey wrote:
My connection speed is way too slow to watch videos.
Click on play and then as soon as the video starts to play, click pause. The video will carry on loading (slowly) but not playing. Open another browser and carry on surfing the internet. Check back periodically to see if the video has loaded. When it has, you will be able to watch the video without any problems.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/51410 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/51410 Re: electric tractor tractor in Farm Show, vol 34, no 4, 2010, "Texas Ag Students Create a Battery Powered 8N." They replaced the tractor's engine with a 60 hp electric motor salvaged from a large forklift.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/72716 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/72716 Re: electric tractor tractor. one issue with converting these old tractors is the RPM. Electric motors for EV use like to spin about 6-7k rpm. these old tractors had an RPM around 2k. when you run the electric motor slow it pulls a lot of amps and produces a lot of heat.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3115766&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/80414 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/80414 Re: electric tractor tractor.  The forklift needed all of the hydraulic ram seals replaced and a new battery pack but other than that it was fine.  I am currently building a motorcycle sized "trike" that hopefully will become a serviceable vehicle for local trips.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/81194 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/81194 Re: electric tractor


]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82216 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82216 Re: electric tractor   I like the design of this tractor because it is much like an old VW Bug.  The weight is over the drive wheels.  Because of the demand it is nearly impossible to get high amp hour 96 volt Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries though.  I would love nothing better than using a photovoltaic array as a roof so I could just go out and run the tractor driving "in the shade." LOL]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82236 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82236 Re: electric tractor tractor,  just dosn't have the power system set up yet.  I used a 15 hp  3ph motor from the junkyard to replace the engine on my john deer 2010 just to carry the flywheel with a large twin B pulley on the shaft driven by a subaru engine mounted above it,  2-1 drive to reduce the car engine rpm to what the tractor was.  (tractor engine was worn out and cost over $1000 just for parts to rebuild)  Been making hay and logging with it.    I figured I'd build a generator system eventually and try running the electric motor with it.  It might be a bit small for the tractor but I can work it slow when we get there,  or add a second motor in place of the gas engine coupled to the first one with the belt drive.  The generator/controller I'm working on is something based on 130 year old technology that was lost sight of in the age of big energy dollar figures.  Perfected by a modern electrical engineer but still virtually unheard of.  If I can get it to work it'll be something worth passing the plans around,  since it'll be very cheap to make.  Most of it from salvaged junk.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82353 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82353 Re: electric tractor
reubenT wrote:
I already have an electric tractor,  just dosn't have the power system set up yet.  I used a 15 hp  3ph motor from the junkyard to replace the engine on my john deer 2010 just to carry the flywheel with a large twin B pulley on the shaft driven by a subaru engine mounted above it,  2-1 drive to reduce the car engine rpm to what the tractor was.   (tractor engine was worn out and cost over $1000 just for parts to rebuild)  Been making hay and logging with it.    I figured I'd build a generator system eventually and try running the electric motor with it.  It might be a bit small for the tractor but I can work it slow when we get there,  or add a second motor in place of the gas engine coupled to the first one with the belt drive.  The generator/controller I'm working on is something based on 130 year old technology that was lost sight of in the age of big energy dollar figures.   Perfected by a modern electrical engineer but still virtually unheard of.  If I can get it to work it'll be something worth passing the plans around,  since it'll be very cheap to make.  Most of it from salvaged junk.
15hp is a lot for an electric motor compared to an internal combustion engine.  150hp x .23 (average efficiency) = 34.5 HP.  The torque from the 15hp motor will amaze you.  Electric motors run cooler and more efficiently at higher rpm so you may not have to be slow if you can make enough juice to run your motor.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82794 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82794 Re: electric tractor   I was homeschooled and started at around 13 YO over 30 years ago visiting a big city library and reading the stories of inventors and their inventions,  been at it ever since.  I've come across some very strange inventions and talked to some modern inventors who were being shut down by big business.  there's been a  lot of stuff invented in the relm of energy that the general public has never heard of,  stuff that would have wiped big oil out of existence many times over, which is why you never hear of it. I gotta be very careful what I say. stick with general terms,  The world and it's governments are held under slavery by big business  worse than hardly anyone realizes.  While they maintain a fairly nice public image.  It way too big for anyone to fight,  all we can do is a few of us figure out stuff for ourselves and shut up about it so we don't get our heads chopped off.    Mr T tried to give it to the world over 100 years ago but they stopped him then,  and are still stopping it,  so they can make big money on energy.  ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82897 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82897 Re: electric tractor
reubenT wrote:
yes,  I know they are much stronger for the HP than IC technology,   the original subaru hybrid conversion featured in MEN used a 10HP aircraft starter/generator,   but they did add a cooling blower.   We have a subaru we have converted to EV with junk yard electric forklift parts, motor is probably be around 15 HP, 36-48V DC, it runs,   but we only had 4 regular car batteries on it and it pulled the voltage down hard just to start moving.   So it's also waiting for my power supply.    I also have a 25 hp AC motor,   will put it in my 3/4 ton truck just as soon as I can power it suitably. 
   I was homeschooled and started at around 13 YO over 30 years ago visiting a big city library and reading the stories of inventors and their inventions,  been at it ever since.  I've come across some very strange inventions and talked to some
modern inventors who were being shut down by big business.  there's been a  lot of stuff invented in the relm of energy that the general public has never heard of,  stuff that would have wiped big oil out of existence many times over, which is why you never hear of it. I gotta be very careful what I say. stick with general terms,  The world and it's governments are held under slavery by big business  worse than hardly anyone realizes.  While they maintain a fairly nice public image.   It way too big for anyone to fight,   all we can do is a few of us figure out stuff for ourselves and shut up about it so we don't get our heads chopped off.    Mr T tried to give it to the world over 100 years ago but they stopped him then,  and are still stopping it,  so they can make big money on energy. 

If you can find the old style truck batteries (24-28 volts) get as many as you can find.  The ones with the rubber cases.  They are easy to rebuild.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82903 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/82903 Re: electric tractor tractor brings up a lot of memories watching my grandpa in a tractor like that. It is amazing how far things have come, especially farm equipment, thank you John Deere. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/88358 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/88358 Re: electric tractor
Ken Peavey wrote:

Its essentially a solar PV generator on wheels.  Electricity where you need it.  Did you catch the part about plugging it into his house if the power goes down?

If it can be plugged in, it can be powered by this rig.  Chainsaws, lawn mowers, brush trimmers, power tools, post hole diggers, pumps, all sorts of uses.

I suspect that for this kind of work it is a mains powered device supplemented  by solar power, but I'm willing to be proved wrong.

Comparing the efficiency of petrol motors to electric motors  is a little misleading.You must also consider the efficiency of electricity generation and transmitting, in fact the whole cycle of both systems  ,which I guess also includes drilling, transporting and refining oil.

Whatever, electricity generation is at  best 60% and usually 40%  or less.

If much of the mains electricity is coming from, say, gas fired generators. A gas/solar electric powered hybrid vehicle might actually be more efficient and better for the environment.

Solar panels take a lot  of energy to build. How environmentally friendly they are depends on their lifespan. I hope these panels are well protected from overhanging branches etc.

There are  still some steam  enthusiasts looking to the future. Vehicles powered by solid fuel (such as  charcoal) might have potential.Unlike most alternative energy discussions on the web,this one has a high ratio of engineers to conspiracy theorists (well done permies!) so I'm throwing the idea out there.

I already have a solar powered all terrain vehicle. The cost was about 150Euros (including trailer). Efficiency is extremely high, and the vehicle is low maintenance. I am currently awaiting the next generation hybrid model which promises to be just as efficient but higher performance.  pic attached:-D
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/92388 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/92388 Re: electric tractor http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/92393 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/92393 Re: electric tractor
Pignut wrote:
I already have a solar powered all terrain vehicle. The cost was about 150Euros (including trailer). Efficiency is extremely high, and the vehicle is low maintenance. I am currently awaiting the next generation hybrid model which promises to be just as efficient but higher performance.  pic attached


Ooh - I have one of those!  I think mine is a slightly larger model.  Are you going to raise your own 'next generation' model?  I intend to, but I'm not going for hybrid as that tends to make the following generation a bit tricky...

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/92433 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/92433 Re: electric tractor
I suspect the next generation hybrid model may have gone into production a few months back when the vehicle was running on auto pilot, but I wasn't present or consulted on the matter so I can't be entirely sure!

From what I've seen of the hybrids they seem very powerful and their lifespan is extremely long but, yes on the downside, subsequent generation models are very rare]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/92438 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/92438 Re: electric tractor
Pignut wrote:
I suspect the next generation hybrid model may have gone into production a few months back when the vehicle was running on auto pilot,


Ah yes, the self-regenerating versions do seem to have a rather uncontrolable auto pilot on occasion.  Especially as the days are lengthening in the Spring - the solar tracker system must have some sort of daylight-measuring device built in, and it tends to cause the alarm-system to sound rather loudly and frequently just to warn you that auto-pilot is about to make your pride and joy go awol. 

That's why geldings, and hybrid ones at that, are pretty well the only sort left in Portugal - pure mares are incredibly hard to find, and it's going to get worse so I'm determined to breed a 'pure' version to try to keep things going.  ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/92441 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/92441 electric tractor http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/105369 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/105369 electric tractor
The most efficient system has been proven to be that of animals. Why? Well, they eat your stuble and convert it to stuff more easily plant available and also provide you with food. There are never any oil spills and are parts are reusable and biodegradeable. Now, the animal still takes chemical energy and converts that to mechanical energy, but he's likely to do at least some of that anyway. Whether he's chewing his cud and watching you drive around on the tractor or pulling the equipment himself, he's got to eat.

At the same time, if you are selling leafy greens, you can forget the animal. Not allowed. Go for the electric. If you don't like animals or have no patience to care for them - find some other way. But, I thought I'd just post for your consideration.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/106317 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/106317 electric tractor tractor just chugs to a complete halt and the battery is 100% drained, you might be able to recharge that battery 100 times. If you run it until it is at about 1/2 charge you can recharge that same battery 1000 times. Heat and cold do make a diff. I would guess that you should get 3 to 4 years of hard work out of the batterys. Maybe 5 or 6 if you are very lucky and take care of them. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/106403 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/106403 electric tractor in this podcast.

Paul shares his enthusiasm for Steve Heckeroth's solar electric, 45 horsepower tractor.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/120808 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/120808 Re: electric tractor pump on my small tractor maintains 2,500 psi and pumps quite a bit of fluid at that pressure when the front end loader or back hoe are being used.

The speed of actuators would be important for many tasks. And would they be durable enough to repeatedly push a loader bucket into piles?

gary reif wrote:would using hydraulics for a front end loader suck a lot of juice since the pump would run all the time?

could use linear acutuators but the are slow and expensive for sizes you would need .

any ideas or thoughts?

I would love to build an elec tractor
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/121171 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/121171 electric tractor












electric tractors

EV Charging

Heckeroth Homestead

Solar Charging article for "Solar Today"

Solar Design

Solar Electricity Production

solar tractors for agriculture

SolTrac solar electric tractor

SolTrac electric tractor

why we need electric cars


]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/126923 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/126923 electric tractor
It's split into three parts, links below.

Steve Heckeroth Electric Tractors Part 1 - Paul Wheaton talks with Steve Heckeroth, who has made an electric tractor. Paul shares about his electric golf cart, which he used for a lot around the farm. Steve talks about the energy that goes into food production (moreso than its transportation). Steve uses DC motors. They talk about traction. Steve talks about using an 80 lb battery in the front rather than buying weights. Steve talks about the Scratchbuilt tractor, (Number 7) which also collects solar energy. He talks about making farming easier by not having to look backwards while driving. There are several positions you can sit in. The tractor is directed by a joystick, which can stick in place, and can go so slow that you can’t see it moving. This is great for going back to the back seat on the ground to plant flats or harvest as you creep along. The tractor is very quiet, and can turn on and off easily. They talk about using vegetable oil in hydraulics. The tractor also has a camera and can be remote control operated. Steve talks about minesweep tractors that would explode landmines in post-war areas. They compare Steve’s tractors and their efficiency to traditional 45 horsepower tractors. Steve talks about linear actuators. Steve talks about regen, putting energy back into your batteries when you brake. They talk about in-wheel motors. You don’t need a clultch in an electric vehicle.

Steve Heckeroth Electric Tractors Part 2 - Paul Wheaton continues talking with Steve Heckeroth, who has made an electric tractor. Steve talks about linear actuators. Steve talks about regen, putting energy back into your batteries when you brake. They talk about in-wheel motors. You don’t need a clultch in an electric vehicle, which makes things a little easier. They talk about having a couple battery packs. Paul shares about his electric chainsaw. The solar charging shed can also serve the needs of the home if the grid goes down. All you need is an inverter. Steve shares about using electric cars. They talk about battery weight. Paul talks about reusing lead acid batteries, and Steve says they are 100% recyclable. Steve shares about how long his 2 Prius cars have lasted on one battery. They talk about the movie, Who Killed the Electric Car. They talk about fuel savings and economy. Steve talks about car-sharing for trips or picking up things that weigh a lot.

Steve Heckeroth Electric Tractors Part 3 - Paul Wheaton continues talking with Steve Heckeroth, who has made an electric tractor. Paul shares about his tractor and truck. Steve talks about linear actuators, and hydraulic cylinders. They talk about some more of Steve’s tractor designs, which have even more power despite being smaller in size. They talk about its having tracks, and how it impacts a farmers‘ soil. The tractors can lift 1200 lbs. Steve talks about visibility and seeing forward and backward. Steve talks about making the tractors yourself. They talk about small farmers making money, and the market for small tractors. It is less expensive if you buy more than one. Paul explains his paddock shift system with his cattle, and moving the shelter around with his tractor. They talk about things you need a tractor for. Steve shares about being asked to help make a solar-powered Maharishi University in central India in ’95, and he was the only person in the world at that time making tractors that could run off the sun. Steve shares his contact info. They talk about how fast the tractors go. Steve shares about some unfortunate solar cell fate, courtesy of Chevron. They talk about gasoline. Steve talks about Revenge of the Electric Car. Paul talks about stopping by Steve’s when he goes on tour.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/128298 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/128298 electric tractor tractor. Time tested, proven, well developed technology that fed the entire planet until the 1940's. Low impact, low embedded energy, self-replicating, low cost, less soil compaction and contributes to soil fertility and nutrient cycling. More enjoyable to be around. Use draft animals! Use horses, use oxen, use mules, use donkeys, use goats...if you're farming on the scale that requires a tractor there is a draft animal that will suit your system.

Way, way more power than a solar golf cart. More flexibility. Hitch one, hitch two, hitch three...whatever you need, mix it up.

Avoid the massive hidden embedded energy costs and pollution involved in the production of high tech batteries and p.v. modules. Continuing costs...the lifespan on that stuff is about the same as a horse, but it doesn't reproduce. You're going to save about enough energy with solar power to maybe cover the energy production costs of the battery / panel combination over the lifespan of the unit. And the horse decays when it's days are over, it's not a heavy metal disposal / recycling problem to deal with.

I know, I'm shouting...sorry, I feel strongly about this. There are still folks around that know how to make this work, make some connections and help preserve an heirloom technology.

Here is some really cool solar powered community powered TRACTION in action!
crazy building move

horse powered farm example
small farm journal]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/128311 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/128311 electric tractor tractor, and I love running that thing and not breathing exhaust or having to wear hearing protection. I'm currently gathering parts to convert a small diesel (21hp) tractor to electric.

First off, reinventions McCoy said it best when he wrote above "... if you use more than a gallon of fuel at a stretch (no breaks or idle time), then your work would likely be interrupted by recharging."... this is the most succinct and important piece of info contained in all the posts above. I assume since reinventions has got a converted Cub he's talking about electric tractor conversions (not scratch-builts), and conversions done with smaller tractors and standard smaller battery packs – somewhere in the 115Ah to 220Ah range. I'm not convinced that this run time couldn't be extended with the use of a slightly bigger tractor and much bigger batteries – something like the 1,000Ah to 1,500Ah batteries that are commonly used in electric forklifts. I have yet to see one of these used on an electric tractor, and at US $4,000 each, I can understand why. I also wonder if there's a point of diminishing returns, where you have too much battery (and therefore too much weight), so you expend a lot of energy just carrying around the heavy battery (that you wouldn't really need if you just went back to the tractor barn and swapped batteries at lunchtime)

I see a few people on here that think we should all "just use animals"... well, I'm wondering if they regularly move xxx yards of soil from the front 40 to the back 40 with just animals... or load bins of grain with animals, or bale hay with animals (and if they don't, how efficient is storing loose hay?)... and those of us that don't yet farm full time and have to keep other job(s) to pay our property taxes and such tend to have less time to spend trying to do farm jobs using animals (because we all know it takes longer), never mind the time spent caring for the animals, making sure they are cared for if we have to travel, making sure we have enough property to grow the feed for them, etc...

Speaking of which... on John Howe's site (referenced in some posts above), there's an analysis of solar tractors vs. biofuel tractors vs. beasts of burden – and as it turns out – for a biofuel tractor (biodiesel, greasel, ethanol) – for every 20 acres farmed, you would need about 5 acres extra to grow fuel crops. For horses – for every 20 acres farmed, you'd need about 7 acres extra to grow "fuel" crops... so either way, you're needing to grow 1/4 to 1/3 more to cover the "expense" of your fuel. In one of the video links that Kari posted above, the horse farmers have 80 acres but only farm 7 acres in food crops. The other part about this is it's not completely scalable... if you have a small patch of land and you only need the work of 1/3 or 1/2 a horse, you can't feed that horse 1/3 as much as it needs to survive. There is an extensive treatise on this and also on battery size and charging, etc. on John Howe's site here:
http://www.solarcarandtractor.com/*/Photovoltaics,_Batteries,_Tractors,_Horses,_and_Biodfuel.html

There is a short summary by someone else here:
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/31513

I also see some people mentioning on here the embodied energy in solar panels – saying that PV panels take a huge amount of energy to make – but I haven't seen anyone cite sources. Being into renewables, I've heard this argument for years – and in the limited research I've done, it turns out that depending on where on earth the PV panels are located (.ie how much sun they get – how much power they make per day / per year), the panels go "net zero" on embodied energy in about two to four years. The warranted life span of most PV panels is 25 years (what other electronic device can you say that about?) with, for instance 90% power output warranted at 10 years and 80% output warranted at 25 years. (I should also mention that the first PV panels ever made are still working, over 50 years later.) So if you buy PV panels today, they will become "net zero energy" in two to four years and then they're warranted for another 21 years – and will likely produce power far longer than that.
Here's an example of a PV panel warranty:
http://files.sharpusa.com/Downloads/Solar/Warranty/sol_dow_Module_Warranty_before_10_2009.pdf

Here's a PV panel embodied energy study:
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/17219

Now we get down to brass tacks. I listened to the four hours of electric tractor podcasts mentioned above, and I think there were some big things that were missed.
First off, Paul kept talking about his 45?hp diesel John Deere, and Steve talked mostly about his #7 scratch-built and his version of an Allis-Chalmers G (the originals of which were about 10hp)... these are three totally different machines! If you have a farm like Paul was talking about and you need a 45hp tractor, you better think long and hard about electric before trying it out... go back to reinvention McCoy's statement above... "if you use more than a gallon of fuel at a stretch"... I can imagine that there were times that Paul was baling hay, or plowing snow, or loading bins of pig food, and he used more than a gallon of diesel at one time. If he had an electric tractor with the technology being discussed here, he would have to be coming back to the barn and swapping batteries – and IIRC, Paul was talking about maintaining 80 acres, while Steven mentioned he has like 1.5 acres... that's a big difference.

I'd like to hear more about Steve's early conversion tractors. I've seen pictures of a small Yanmar diesel with a front loader that Steve converted to electric... he got rid of the steering wheel and all... well, how did that tractor perform? I don't think I'm alone in saying that most small farms could use an all-around tractor like this Yanmar (loader, 3 pt hitch) more than they could a purpose-built planter or cultivator. Most folks don't buy a cultivator as their first tractor... they buy it as their second, third, maybe sixth tractor. Steve's #7 machine looked very promising – if only it had a loader and more powerful wheel motors.

Efficiencies aside, I think there's still a place for hydraulics, and that place is on the loader. The electric / hydraulic pump doesn't have to run all the time, it can be on-demand... (go listen to any electric forklift and you'll hear what I mean)... the hydraulic pump only runs when it's needed. There's optimum efficiency, and then there's necessity – and I think for most people these days a loader is a necessity – and no linear actuator I've seen would cut it on a loader. In the podcast, Paul had mentioned lifting 3,000 lbs. with the loader on his John Deere... I'd be REALLY surprised if either of those tracked machines pictured above would lift a 3,000 lb. grain bin with their loader. I thought Steve mentioned something in the podcast about the bucket on #11 or #12 being a one yard bucket, but then when I saw the pictures on here, it looks like maybe 1/3 yard? I know electric forklifts can lift this sort of weight, but only straight up and down, and then they have hard smooth wheels, so they then can't take that same bin and move it over soft ground... which is why we need tractors.

I'd also like to see / hear of any 25hp+ electric tractors out there that have been converted or purpose built... something with BIG batteries... >1,000 Ah... how do these tractors perform? While we're at it, let's not forget to talk about cold-weather performance. In the podcast, Paul kept talking about ice and snow and living on a mountain, and Steve never mentioned ANYTHING about how poorly lead-acid batteries (and other chemistries too!) perform in the cold... their cold-weather performance is maybe? half... there's a reason why some folks with lead-acid EV's have heat blankets under their batteries... they have to plug them in at night to keep their batteries warm. When you live in coastal California you might not have to worry about such things, but this is a subject that should be discussed – because not all of us live in warm climates, and it's in poor taste to give people false hopes and pie-in-the-sky ideas.

So yeah... do I think the technology is here for electric powered cultivation tractors? Something like the Allis-Chalmers G or the Farmall Cub? Heck yeah, let's convert them! Let's buy new ones from Steve! I'd love to see what Steve's "hobby farm" tractor looks like, too... how big, what features, etc. Let's convert some 20-30hp tractors, too! If anyone has info on other electric tractors, let's see them!

-Norm.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/129633 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/129633 electric tractor tractor thread so just a few points and I'm out of here. I think as permaculturists we should have the discussion about where electric tractors fit in with global sustainability in agriculture. I also think that North Americans tend to have huge cultural blinders on, and regularly dismiss highly effective technologies as quaint and impractical while developing inappropriately high-tech solutions for very simple problems. The draft animals that built the modern world have been caught in that collective cultural amnesia. I'm writing because I am truly concerned with how my grandkids are going to be able to feed themselves in a world where fossil energy is growing increasingly scarce.

I have no problem with PV..when you use it to generate electricity for communication and data processing I think you get a staggering return on the investment in energy and resources. I just don't think that it's appropriate for powering heavy traction...it's not efficient, there are huge impacts, and there are diminishing returns.

For starters you talk about a fork lift battery as appropriate for a good size tractor that could Maybe manage 80 acres. Ok, that's 2000 pounds of lead acid battery, give or take. There are 470 million arable acres in cultivation in the US. Divide by the eighty acre plot and multiply by 2000 pounds and you get close to 12 billion pounds of lead acid battery to farm that land base. It's a non-starter. The mining would be insane. Or you could have a tenth of that mass in even more scarce elements for some high tech battery.

You are completely reliant on a highly functioning industrial economy with specialists and engineers and factories and mines of every metal imaginable, none of which are a sure thing. The batteries don't last. The motors /bearings/ etc...wear out. You can recycle them but it costs energy, and you lose material to inefficiencies each time.

Or you could just use animals. They have done it before. I have horse equipment that's eighty years old, I can fix it with a forge and anvil, and if someone takes care of it it'll last another hundred.

Norm Nelson wrote:
I see a few people on here that think we should all "just use animals"... well, I'm wondering if they regularly move xxx yards of soil from the front 40 to the back 40 with just animals... or load bins of grain with animals, or bale hay with animals (and if they don't, how efficient is storing loose hay?)...


Sure, you can regularly move soil...look at any photos of the massive road building and excavation efforts of the early 20th century. Fresno's and similar buckets with cart wheels. You might also benefit from wondering whether regularly moving soil was an appropriate action. Baling hay only became important when selling hay off your land became a practice (unsustainable) or when we started transporting hay long distances by truck (also unsustainable). Loose hay can be exceptionally high quality and it's a very energy efficient means of sustaining your livestock.

Yes it takes time to care for the animals. That's honest and up front, instead of the unseen impact of all of the resources and outsourced labour that go into making the electric vehicle. Ditto for property to grow / feed them. You mention needing 1/3 more land to sustain draft animals. Up front. The tractor hides it's footprint in resource extraction, fabrication, and energy...the costs are still there, and they are much greater, but you have 'outsourced' it so it doesn't show up on your land...except that we have a finite planet and it's all your land.

Norm Nelson wrote:
(because we all know it takes longer)


This is an unquestioned assumption. Takes longer than what? Longer than my neighbours farming 3000 acres with tractors the size of houses? Sure. Will they be doing that in eighty years? Longer than a guy swapping out thousand pound battery packs every couple hours and wondering if the other one is charged yet? It doesn't take Too Long, if you match your system to available power.

You do make some great points about some of the downsides to draft animals. You need poperty tax money, you've got a day job, and time is scarce. They need care, and it's hard to travel. Not everyone can do it, I just want to offer encouragement for anyone who wants to try. There could be an opportunity to build community and share or trade chores. You say animals don't scale to super small acreage. Don't forgot the humble donkey! Maybe another opportunity for collective community involvement. I would add that it takes a certain personality to handle drafts, and also that for someone without the background the learning curve is enormous, and we have lost so much knowledge collectively over the past hundred years...but to me this makes it even more urgent to preserve, pass on, and encourage this knowledge.

So that's where I'm at with draft animals. They have a lot of problems, but if things get really bad we may we'll need them someday and be glad the tradition is alive. Electric tractors could be a pretty cool hobby and a challenge to engineer, but I don't see them addressing the big picture challenges that are coming our way in a time of energy descent.

ps and not even talking about lawn tractors, lets say you make a 35 horse electric tractor, can it do this??
stuck truck




]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/129751 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/129751 electric tractor tractor?
The Italian walk behind tractor is the answer to the question.
And if you use super capacitors in addition to batteries, you can pretty much instantly recharge.
There is a whole community rebuilding the old US version.
Here is the new chinese one.

http://dftractor.com/2-power-tiller.html

The newest battery discovered is actually graphene sheets and water.
It molecularly structures itself, just add water, and charge.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/129870 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/129870 electric tractor ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130686 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130686 electric tractor permaculture? It would need to do the following: dig swales, make hugelkulture beds, dig a root cellar, terraces, building a Sepp Holzer roundwood shelter, make a small pond, etc.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130878 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130878 electric tractor sustainable. Trading a fossil fueled tractor for an electric tractor isn't addressing that those machines still have a detrimental impact on the soil. I read over my earlier post and have altered my view considerably. I plan to use donkeys for assisting me with my work. I will still make ethanol and biodiesel albeit in very small quantities for other uses besides running internal combustion engines. I may find that I need to run an electric generator in certain limited and temporary circumstances but overall it seems to me that draft animals are the best way to minimize impact. I don't have any data to back me up but it certainly looks like a pair of donkeys will have much less impact on the environment than an electric tractor. There is no manufacturing pollution to breed donkeys. The same cannot be said for the materials used to manufacture a tractor.
What's the point of promoting a better model for agriculture if you take the same destructive farm equipment and only change the power source? That doesn't make sense to me. Repairing the damage may take key line plowing is some areas that is true but does that suggest that "we" need electric tractors to replace the fossil fueled models? I am not too sure if changing the power source does much to change the philosophy used that brought us to this point. It certainly looks as if an electric tractor can do lots of "stuff" that draft animals cannot accomplish but that can be said of the draft animals compared to the tractor. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130883 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130883 electric tractor http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130895 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130895 electric tractor ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130933 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130933 electric tractor
1) It is great to have the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf but they coast over $30,000.
How can we drive affordable electric cars this year?

2) Do you see the cost of solar coming down to maybe $1USD a watt to make electic transport more of a vialble option for the average man?

3) Do you think any of the pie in the sky battery inventions will come to fruition soon? We always here of MIT or some other group making breakthrough that will be ready in four years. If so what technologies should we watch and invest in.

Kindly,
Campy]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130945 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130945 electric tractor
I would like to know more about what you recommend on battery maintenance to maximize the life span of one of the more expensive components of an electric tractor

- How many watts of solar are you typically mounting on the tractor roofs?

- When parking and Charging at night, how many AC Amps @ 240 Volts are needed to bulk charge?
- What type of battery chargers are you using? Are they similar to you Electric Vehicle Charging Station?

- What is the typically charging schedule to maintain maximum battery life?
- Do you recommend equalization charge from grid/generator power to desulfate the batteries?
- What are your charging recommendations to get the maximum life from your batteries?

-Have you experimented with AGM or other sealed batteries to reduce maintenance?

-You mentioned other companies using on board generators to directly power the electric motors, do you think there is value in having a generator that could be mounted to the tractor for times of heavy usage. ie plowing, bailing etc.

Thanks Steve, you have brought a lot of exciting and useful information to the community!

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130959 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130959 electric tractor
What's the story with this tractor?:
http://www.evalbum.com/216
It looks like one of his earlier conversions - so how did it work? Is that a separate electric motor for the hydraulic pump that we see on the side? What were the specs on the tractor before and after the conversion? Is the linear actuator steering a result of the steering being so hard because of the weight of the batteries?

In the last podcast, Steve talked a lot about efficiency, wheel motors, and how transmissions lose efficiency, etc... His #7 tractor had wheel motors, but then he mentioned that for his latest (Heckeroth G?) tractor, he was sourcing transmissions and front ends from India. I know he's also talked about how important it is to have the weight (batteries) low and in line with the rear axle (which is hard to do when there's a differential there)... so my question is, why the "regression" to a transmission?

What does Steve think of the "if you use more than a gallon of fuel in one stretch, with an electric tractor, you'd have to recharge or swap batteries" rule of thumb that reinventions McCoy (above) and John Howe have talked about?

Paul, since you talked about plowing snow and pulling people out of the ditch and such in the snow, it's only fair that you ask Steve to discuss lead-acid battery performance in sub-freezing weather.

I'd like to hear more about Steve's "hobby farm" tractor that he mentioned in the last podcast.

A friend and I are gathering parts to convert two tractors to electric - his 40hp Farmall and my 21hp Kubota L200 (the loudest tractor west of the Rockies!)... any tips, common mistakes to avoid, etc. that Steve would like to share would be greatly appreciated... my biggest concern is matching the most efficient RPMs of the electric drive motors to the existing tractor transmissions... I'm thinking we might need to gear the electric motors down about 1.5:1 or maybe even 2:1 to pull less amps...

If Steve's feeling really generous, I'd love to hear his source for $300 linear actuators that will lift 1,500lbs... unless he's talking about Northern Tool (cheap imported crap, even the reviews on their own site say their actuators are crap), I have yet to see an actuator that will lift that kind of weight for under $1,000...

Thanks for the opportunity to ask questions, Paul...

-Norm.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130960 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130960 electric tractor
Sorry for the delay in response.

I agree that we should have the discussion about electric tractors and global sustainability – and I too wonder how my son will feed himself in twenty years. However – the more I travel, the more I come to the realization that I can get quickly overcome by "the big picture"... I also can't help people that won't help themselves... and after my last trip, I'm currently of the mindset that I need concentrate on trying to save my little corner of the world (my small community and my nine acres), rather than trying to "save the world". If, somewhere along the journey, we come up with solutions that could help others, then I'm more than willing to share...

If we look back 100 years to the beginning of petroleum tractor usage (and the corresponding decline in draft animal usage), there were about 1.7 billion on the planet. Today there are over 7 billion people. My main question then is – could we possibly feed 7+ billion people using only draft animals for power? Is this a non-starter? Which leads to the next questions – how many draft animals would it take to grow food for 7+ billion people, and how much more arable land would we need just to feed these animals... do we have enough land for both, do we have enough people willing to work with all those animals, etc?

As for technology, I'm very much in the mindset of buying nothing new. I'm not interested in making new tractors. I'm interesting in converting old tractors (40 to 70 years old), using used parts, most of which exist in the waste stream. For instance, I visited an electric motor rebuilder the other day... he had bins of electric forklift motors in pallet racks, floor to 20' ceiling high... hundreds of them – all of them used, some of them rebuilt, many of them "out of date", meaning that the forklifts that they were made for are all old, and people don't really use those models anymore... so these motors are orphans, unless someone like myself comes along and has the crazy idea to put one in a car, tractor, etc. The same thing applies to the speed controllers, battery chargers, etc. This stuff exists in quantities already, there's no need to build or buy new ones anytime soon. I also have a number of PV modules... all of them used when I bought them – the oldest are 20 years old and still work great. The resource extraction for all these parts has already happened long ago. (but the batteries are a different story)

Yes, it takes more than an anvil and forge to rebuild these motors, controllers, PV modules, etc. but my point is – there is so much of this stuff – this technology – in existence already. The same thing goes for the lead you mention. Yes, 12 billion pounds sounds like an awful lot... until you realize that 12 billion pounds equals 6 million tons, and we humans already recycle 1 million tons and mine 4.4 million tons per year on earth... so the 12 billion pounds you mention is a little over 1 year's production to get batteries for all the hypothetical tractors needed to farm all the arable land in North America... and I assume that all those tractors wouldn't get built / converted in one year.

But you have a very valid point about the technology needed. Yes, I don't know how to build a speed controller, or the internal parts for it... but could I learn, and are there millions of those MOSFETs in existence already? Yes. I also don't know how to build a lead-acid battery. But could I learn how and do it if I really had to? Maybe. (The first PbA battery was made in 1859, I wonder how high-tech Monsier Planté's lab was?). But again, this is all hypothetical...

I agree that we should question whether regularly moving soil is a good thing. But if you start talking ponds, swales, hugelkulture piles, etc. I think I'll be looking for the electric tractor (or honestly, probably still climbing in my old diesel excavator) and get done in a couple of afternoons what would take me weeks to do with a couple of horses. Perhaps electric tractors aren't "the answer", but they're a step closer to steam, which is a step closer to once again using draft animals... but for those of us that aren't farming full time, I just don't see animals as a good fit... not yet.

-Norm.

P.S. I don't know if a 35hp tractor would pull that truck out of the mud, but if it could get traction, I think it could. Your average "5,000 lb" electric forklift actually weighs about 8,500 lbs and will pick up and move at speed another 5,000 lbs, so that's 13,500 lbs total and those forklifts have about 30hp electric motors in them, and move those weights all day on smooth ground, so maybe – just maybe – a tractor with the same motor and tractor gearing and big tires might be able to pull that 6,000 lb truck out of the mud... I'd like to see it!
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130973 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/130973 electric tractor local community.

I use a 1955 35HP (at drawbar) gasoline tractor for heavy work when there is a seasonal time crunch. Sometimes it doesn't start for months. The past few days I've been running it hard. I spent 11 hours running it yesterday (i am converting cultivated land to permanent pasture and needed to get the seed bed prepared and sown before the rain). I was thinking while going back and forth that 35 HP is 746*35= 26,110 watts. Which means I blew off 287,210 watt hours just yesterday. On a tiny farm. So much farm work is like this, heavy long hours for brief periods seasonally. It really makes the battery issue challenging. It also puts PV out of reach on my scale, so essentially the electric tractor would be running on coal or nuclear or something...

I could have done it with horses but I would have needed two more horses and it would have taken me two days. I might have missed the rain, the project might have failed or been spread over a few years.

I don't know what we're going to do, but i think fossil fuel spent on swales, ponds and hugelculture beds is well spent, they will last you a long time and at least feed your kids.


Question for Steve..

Agricultural equipment is rated by horsepower at the drawbar, which is a measured rather than theoretical horsepower (P=Fv). Have you had the chance to get any of your tractors measured with a dynamometer? What sort of drawbar horsepower rating do you think is achievable with electric (without pushing constraints like weight and battery capacity to extremes)?
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131014 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131014 electric tractor tractor is the same issue I have with the lead acid battery powered cars people were promoting back in the 70's. Temperature reeks havoc on battery capacity. Lead acid batteries like 80F. Once you get down below freezing their capacity is only about 10%. An electric car that had a 30 mile range now has a three mile range. Likewise, your tractor is going to have a radically reduced work capacity in the cold. This can be a serious problem when your daily outside temps swing by 30 to 50 degrees as you loose a lot of work time fighting battery issues in an otherwise prime time for getting stuff done.

If you can defeat the temperature limitation though, I recommend making yourself some Edison batteries for your tractor. They can last upwards of a century even with some abuse. They are even more sensitive to temperature variations though and their energy density is about half that of lead acid batteries, but never needing to replace a battery is going to be a major advantage, especially if you can make your own batteries.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131215 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131215 electric tractor
Yone' Ward wrote:The biggest issue I would have with a lead acid battery tractor is the same issue I have with the lead acid battery powered cars people were promoting back in the 70's. Temperature reeks havoc on battery capacity. Lead acid batteries like 80F. Once you get down below freezing their capacity is only about 10%.

That certainly is the truth and downside to mobile electric devices. Efficient storage is a problem yet to be solved.

I recommend making yourself some Edison batteries for your tractor. They can last upwards of a century even with some abuse. They are even more sensitive to temperature variations though and their energy density is about half that of lead acid batteries, but never needing to replace a battery is going to be a major advantage, especially if you can make your own batteries.


Thomas Edison picked up Jugner's nickel-iron battery design, patented it himself and sold it in 1903. It is more properly called the Jugner battery. Edison helped his employees develop the incandescent bulb and little else yet his name is bandied about as though he was some electrical wizard which is not even close to the truth.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131259 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131259 electric tractor
Norm Nelson wrote:Hi Kari,

If we look back 100 years to the beginning of petroleum tractor usage (and the corresponding decline in draft animal usage), there were about 1.7 billion on the planet. Today there are over 7 billion people. My main question then is – could we possibly feed 7+ billion people using only draft animals for power? Is this a non-starter? Which leads to the next questions – how many draft animals would it take to grow food for 7+ billion people, and how much more arable land would we need just to feed these animals... do we have enough land for both, do we have enough people willing to work with all those animals, etc?

As for feeding the current world population with thoughtful use of the land. It is possible and without the need for tractors, even electric versions.

http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/in-1999-35-million-small-family-plots-produced-90-of-russias-potatoes-77-of-vegetables-87-of-fruits-59-of-meat-49-of-milk-way-to-go-people/]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131269 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131269 electric tractor
and yeah, edison was pretty good at ripping off other people's stuff...]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131355 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131355 electric tractor
Dave Bennett wrote:
Yone' Ward wrote:Edison batteries


Thomas Edison picked up Jugner's nickel-iron battery design, patented it himself and sold it in 1903. It is more properly called the Jugner battery. Edison helped his employees develop the incandescent bulb and little else yet his name is bandied about as though he was some electrical wizard which is not even close to the truth.

From what I've learned about Edison and his good buddy Ford, they were both obnoxious fellows. This is of limited relevance, though as they are all dead and a Google search for "Edison Battery" yields results.

It occurred to me that if you could wrap your batteries in removable insulating panels and mount a thermometer in the top of the battery, you should be able to finesse better cold weather performance out of your batteries. I'm thinking something like the cooking thermometers with the metal probe. You coat the metal probe with some epoxy and install it down in the top of the battery. Just an Idea.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131405 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131405 electric tractor
Yone' Ward wrote:
Dave Bennett wrote:
Yone' Ward wrote:Edison batteries


Thomas Edison picked up Jugner's nickel-iron battery design, patented it himself and sold it in 1903. It is more properly called the Jugner battery. Edison helped his employees develop the incandescent bulb and little else yet his name is bandied about as though he was some electrical wizard which is not even close to the truth.

From what I've learned about Edison and his good buddy Ford, they were both obnoxious fellows. This is of limited relevance, though as they are all dead and a Google search for "Edison Battery" yields results.

It occurred to me that if you could wrap your batteries in removable insulating panels and mount a thermometer in the top of the battery, you should be able to finesse better cold weather performance out of your batteries. I'm thinking something like the cooking thermometers with the metal probe. You coat the metal probe with some epoxy and install it down in the top of the battery. Just an Idea.

Personally I like the idea of using electric power for a vast assortment "stuff." I do understand that some people see such technology as improved efficiency for accomplishing certain tasks. All I see is it leading to more and bigger versions that will have the effect of maintaining the status quo of industrial scale earth raping. This "modern era" of technology has shown many of us that it is not sustainable. Rationalizing it's continued use by suggesting that old forklift parts be recycled and continued mining for Lead to make batteries is the very same mind set that got us to this point. I see no change in attitude. I see just a softening of the destruction of the environment. My forest farming philosophy has been developing since I was a youngster in the 50's before most of this corporate agricultural insanity got really rolling. I learned about micro-climate creation from my grandmother that grew varieties of fruits not suited to the temperate northeast. I learned forest farming techniques from a First Nations Shaman way back then too. What I see with electric tractors is taking a fossil fueled farm implement and transforming it into an electrically powered farm implement. The damage done by the machine itself is only lessened somewhat by the change in fuel. The issues of temperature control for batteries of electric cells has been a challenge for electrical engineers practically since their development. My design for temperature control involves Peltier Thermoelectric units. They can be used for heating and cooling depending upon the season. Still I prefer the use of draft animals. The link I posted earlier stands as testament to the reality that small scale family "farming" can produce more than enough food to sustain the current population. There is still a tipping point with population growth that must be addressed. I find it amazing that so many people don't understand simple math. Exponential growth on a finite planet is not sustainable.... not now.... not ever. Suggesting that tractors somehow improve production efficiency without damaging the environment just because of a fuel source change is a contradiction. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131424 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131424 electric tractor tractor. I can focus my cash expenditures on stuff that eliminates or radically reduced my need for the tractor or draft animal with a better return on investment than spending money on solutions that didn't work so well last time they were popular.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131567 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131567 electric tractor
Yone' Ward wrote:As near as I can figure, if I'm going to build a no plow, no till farm, then I'm going to need a front loader for a time until my farm matures out of the need for it, and I just don't see a way to run a front loader with a draft animal. That's why I'm sticking to a cheap gasoline tractor. I can focus my cash expenditures on stuff that eliminates or radically reduced my need for the tractor or draft animal with a better return on investment than spending money on solutions that didn't work so well last time they were popular.

My plan is for two donkeys to guard my sheep and pull a wagon when I need to haul "stuff." As far as needing a front end loader, where I am planning on moving I won't need one and if I do need to do that much digging there are plenty of them around to hire. Some of it has to do with geography and topography. The rest I would guess is what someone intends to do with their property. The pieces of land I have been looking at won't need much earth moving and both of them already have ponds on them. If I can actually get either of them remains to be seen. One needs to be "reforested" the other just needs someone to care for what is already there. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131570 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131570 electric tractor
What is his favorite place to source parts he cant make and has to buy? motors, actuators, controllers, wiring, connectors, battries. Stuff like that. He must have a great source for a lot of these parts if he can build tractors as cheap as he mentioned in the previous series of podcasts.

As I get ready to make my first conversion, any tips or things to avoid that would save a guy some headaches?

Thanks for this series of podcasts Paul. I like this topic and appericate you taking your time to talk about it. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131901 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131901 Re: electric tractor
paul wheaton wrote: Standard tractors usually fill the big tires with a liquid that gives the tractor more weight.



Say again? Excuse me for asking but growing up on a farm, having worked on farms, and having family members who work in tractor repair I've never heard of or seen this practiced. We add weight to front of our equipment to keep the front end from "floating" while pulling a load or an implement. Weight over the rear wheels isn't typically a concern. How have you seen this practiced?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131955 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131955 Re: electric tractor
Heath Gilbert wrote:
paul wheaton wrote: Standard tractors usually fill the big tires with a liquid that gives the tractor more weight.



Say again? Excuse me for asking but growing up on a farm, having worked on farms, and having family members who work in tractor repair I've never heard of or seen this practiced. We add weight to front of our equipment to keep the front end from "floating" while pulling a load or an implement. Weight over the rear wheels isn't typically a concern. How have you seen this practiced?


Filling tractor tires with water was common practice on all of the dairy farms where I grew up. I suspect that where you grew up the land is flat but where I grew up the terrain is extremely "hilly" and tractor tires were filled with water. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131979 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131979 electric tractor
We managed to put a serious puncture in one of our tyres and took it into town to be mended. The guy took great delight in aiming the ensuing stream of water at the people sitting outside the cafe on the opposite side of the road. He got them, too! ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131991 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/131991 electric tractor http://www.ytmag.com/articles/artint138.htm]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/132031 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/132031 electric tractor http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/132043 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/132043 electric tractor
Heath Gilbert wrote:Interesting! I assume that practice is old school and is no longer used on our modern machinery?

Well I wouldn't assume that it is no longer used because there are still plenty of two wheel drive tractors being used on small farms. The development of 4 wheel drive tractors may have lessened the use of fluid filled tires but it will be a very long time before it disappears. I just called the local John Deere dealer service department and they still use fluid filling for tires if the farmer requests it. Lots of those old John Deere and Ford tractors around and still in use. I have always loved those old Ford 8N and 9N tractors. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/132075 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/132075 electric tractor tractor. He had the whole build on a forum, but I think the thread was expired or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F9qmHY5YzQ&feature=g-like

I know the podcast talks about electric motors running best at about 2k rpm, most EV type motors I have seen run best at around 7k rpm. This guy burned his first motor up running at to low of an rpm. Does any one have more info on this?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/134582 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/134582 electric tractor tractor pull an implement such as a plow or disc? I also assume it's unable to drive the PTO for a cycle mower or brush hog?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/134654 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/134654 electric tractor ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/134895 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/134895 electric tractor Tractor podcast issue of $10k limit on Kickstarter products. There are ways to get creative with that, as others have done. Some suggestions are adding lesser levels of support funding options for CAD files or text files as rewards for $10 + support that collectively bring down avg price on 10 units at $9,900 per. If concerned for cost over runs of a few thousand make the tractor "base" model backing out batteries as example, then add back in with separate order for module, whatever makes up "X" thousand to make this work. Just a couple of suggestions vs giving up on this crowdfunding option.
Cheers Brian]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/136369 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/136369 electric tractor
Peter Hartman wrote:Hey guys check out this guys tractor. He had the whole build on a forum, but I think the thread was expired or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F9qmHY5YzQ&feature=g-like

I know the podcast talks about electric motors running best at about 2k rpm, most EV type motors I have seen run best at around 7k rpm. This guy burned his first motor up running at to low of an rpm. Does any one have more info on this?

The rpm range and efficiency varies by motor type and also design. Some motors can as was stated in the podcast creep along at only a few rpm and some motors are more efficient and run cooler at higher rpm. Whether it is AC or DC is also a factor. Generally speaking using DC motors best performance can be achieved at 90% of rated output. Heat is an important consideration. As the load increases on an electric motor causing it to slow down the amperage draw increases which also creates additional heat. Most of the motors big enough to power a tractor more than likely run most efficiently at around 185F or 85C. That may seem like a tremendous amount of heat and it is if no provisions have been made for ventilation. Magnets lose efficiency as they approach critical heat and different types of magnets have different heat tolerances. I have never built an electric vehicle but it has been something that has held my interest for a number of years. I am not sure if my babbling has been of any help but I might be able to answer some questions regarding various types of electric motors. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/136437 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/136437 electric tractor




]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/137189 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/137189 electric tractor
Dave Bennett wrote:
The rpm range and efficiency varies by motor type and also design. Some motors can as was stated in the podcast creep along at only a few rpm and some motors are more efficient and run cooler at higher rpm. Whether it is AC or DC is also a factor. Generally speaking using DC motors best performance can be achieved at 90% of rated output. Heat is an important consideration. As the load increases on an electric motor causing it to slow down the amperage draw increases which also creates additional heat. Most of the motors big enough to power a tractor more than likely run most efficiently at around 185F or 85C. That may seem like a tremendous amount of heat and it is if no provisions have been made for ventilation. Magnets lose efficiency as they approach critical heat and different types of magnets have different heat tolerances. I have never built an electric vehicle but it has been something that has held my interest for a number of years. I am not sure if my babbling has been of any help but I might be able to answer some questions regarding various types of electric motors.


Alright Dave here is what I am thinking. There are quite a few old IH/Massey/Olivar tractors out there. Many are setting in fields and can be bought for a few hundred dollars. I thinks these would make excellent electric conversions. Most of these tractors that I have come across have functioning transmissions but the motor is locked up.

Here is an example that I have found locally here:
http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/International_340

The gas engine is limited to 2000 rpm, and that is probably pretty close to peak hp. So looking at this motor:
http://www.go-ev.com/images/003_05_10_WarP_7_72V_SpreadSheet.jpg

It looks like the rpm is 50% higher or more.

What are your thoughts?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/137267 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/137267 electric tractor http://www.theblaze.com/stories/guess-the-price-tag-for-this-porsche-supercar-that-boasts-94-miles-per-gallon/

Also, I am a rural mail carrier and a vehicle maintenance person told me the USPS ordered some electric delivery vehicles but after testing the first two, canceled the order. Why? They burnt up! It is very hard on any vehicle to stop and start about five hundred times or more in four hours. Imagine turning off and on any electric motors that many times even without a loaded vehicle it has to move. If Steve or anyone could convert one of those postal vehicles to electric that could work and not burn up then they might be able to get a sizeable contract.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/137386 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/137386 electric tractor tractor with the joystick for steering. I assuming it is using the drive wheels to change direction (different amounts of power change direction) but wouldn't that require a modification to the way the front wheels are mounted?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/140545 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/140545 electric tractor http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Vehicles/GardenHelper/GardenHelper.htm]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/140780 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/140780 electric tractor 2 DC motors, a joy stick controlled system that runs on 24 volts. I should be able to build a mini-tractor that will work well "in the woods." Christmas in July ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/142916 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/142916 electric tractor tractor I built. It's frame is an Allis G, but that's about all that's left.

I built it using a 48V DC motor, eight 6V golf cart batteries, an Alltrax controller, and some other goodies.

Goodies:

* 2500W Power Inverter - powers two 110V AC outlets. Run anything from your tractor!
* E-PTOs - I used high-amperage bus bars used in marine applications mated to weather-protected Anderson connectors for true 'plug-in' PTOs. Implements are powered by another motor, not a PTO shaft
* USB ports - the tractor is wired for 12VDC, 48VDC, and 110VAC. Charging a cell phone is easy
* Stereo - line-in port to marine speakers. Weatherproof tunes for in the field. I run Pandora on my iPhone.
* Selective 'chop and drop' cultivation. Using the E-PTOs, I can mow down (chop and drop) between rows, rather than cultivate bare soil.

I'll post a video when I can, here's some pictures






Learn more:

electric tractor]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/144122 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/144122 electric tractor http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/144232 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/144232 electric tractor
Peter Hartman wrote:Can you give us more information on how you geared that motor down with the belt and pulleys? Part#s would be great.


the motor plate was made by a machine shop. Add all the belts, pulleys, and machine work up and its around $600.

Niekamp Machine did the work. Though their quality is exceptional, their turnaround time and communication is terrible. Expect at least 4 months lead time if you want to do a similar project:

http://www.niekampinc.com/electric-g-tractor/

I custom fabricated the battery box, controls, etc. Used weatherproof/outdoor/marine components whenever possible.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/144234 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/144234 electric tractor tractor podcast episodes whilst using my recently purchased non-electric tractor. It's 45Hp, very much like the John Deere tractor Paul used to own.

I was putting in a fence, which involved carrying a bunch of stuff out to the site in the bucket, and then a repetitive cycle of digging a hole (perhaps taking a minute or two) and then ramming the earth in with a crowbar for 10-15 minutes, then moving the tractor to the next hole location (maybe another minute, by the time I got it lined up - the treeline prevented me from just driving along the line of the fence).

Please refer to the attached photo.

Anyway, I had the following thoughts:

Given the amount of downtime, and the fact that I was never using anything like the 45Hp available from the motor, an electric tractor with a shade mounted array doing this job would probably be "energy neutral" at the end of the day from this sort of use. I did at least turn the tractor off whilst I was using the crowbar, but I suspect many possibly would just leave it idling away. The post hole digger attachment running off the PTO (for it's rotation) and three-point hitch (for raising/lowering) sucked compared to if it just had an appropriate direct-drive motor on top of the auger. You'll note it's not hanging vertically because the auger weighs about the same as the PTO shaft, which is pulling the gearbox down. This meant I actually had to reverse the tractor a little once it had started digging - using a heavy clutch in front of me whilst looking backwards to see where I was going. Also, the hydraulics in the three-point hitch are obviously set up for lifting something near it's maximum capacity (about 1500lbs), so this relatively light attachment would tend to fly up and flail wildly. So I started disengaging the PTO (more forward facing clutchwork) before lifting the auger out of the ground.

My final thought was that an electric tractor with an electrically controlled post-hole digging attachment could be controlled from the ground next to the hole, rather than six feet away on the tractor.

On the plus side, I umm-ed and aah-ed about the tractor for a long time, until a Geoff Lawton interview on The Survival Podcast where he said that earthmoving was more subtle than brain surgery, on a planetary scale. I did find myself wondering what I would do with it when diesel fuel got prohibitively expensive - I guess now I know at least one option, convert it to electric!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/148002 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/148002 electric tractor
Heath Gilbert wrote:Interesting! I assume that practice is old school and is no longer used on our modern machinery?

Hi - just noticed this post. My brand new tractor was delivered to me (about a week ago) with its rear wheels 90% full of water. It didn't come with weights on the front because it has a loader (the weights were an optional extra, however). It has a running weight of about 5000lbs, including the loader (and water in the wheels).]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/148004 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/148004 electric tractor 4 wheel drive tractor is on the drawing board. oh yeah. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/148014 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/148014 electric tractor

I built this tractor to be a versatile tool around the farm.

Fast, fun, practical.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/164663 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/164663 electric tractor
If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for your (12Hp?) DC motor?

Phil]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/164671 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/164671 electric tractor
There are quite a few sources for these on the web, they can be had for around $700 new with a bit of shopping around.

A salvage electric golf cart is another angle to approach, though their input shafts can be a little funny.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/164819 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/164819 electric tractor tractor nuts out there? Yeah!!!

My hubby n I are proud owners of a GE electric tractor. We got it in 2006 from a guy in WI for just $800 and it came with a snow blower, front mower and tiller.

It's the biggest model they made of the electric tractors and we put 8 15watt solar panels on a top rack, which worked ok for a single summer but won't do anything over winter.

Hubby cannibalized the snow blower motor and we plan on using it as a semi-portable wind generator to charge it over nights. We got a plow for the front instead of using the snow blower, but again, it won't take the sub-zero temps here.

And, we don't plan on using the mower as we have No Mow Grass and if we do need the lawn cut, well, once a summer we can let the sheep n goats out and call it good.

Things we have been looking for is of course, a chain saw system to go with it. We might go with a rechargeable saw as the e-trak can recharge anything no problem. It has no problem hauling a modified truck bed trailer full of wood but we have to be careful how we load the wood in the trailer since it can tip the tractor if it's loaded front heavy.

We also want to remove the solar panels to drive it into the barn to clean up bedding, pull in a small grain bin and other chores around the farm. and, of we ever get around to it, outfitting the hay cutter and baler with its own power system would mean the elect-Trak could even do the hay. One day!

I've seen some very elaborate attachments for these, including a small backhoe or a front load bucket and always have my eyes out for them but it doesn't take much to make these the only tractor a small farm needs.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/171639 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/171639 electric tractor Tractor Model 12 - Steve Heckeroth



http://permies.com

Steve Heckeroth shows his Model 12 electric tractor. This one is 20 horsepower, although since it is electric it has power comparable to a 40 hp diesel or a 60hp gasoline tractor. Steve explains how this has to do with torque peak performance of the electric motors being so much better than gas or diesel.

In this video we see the loader in action. The three point hitch and the PTO (power take off). We move some bales of straw and do a little bushhogging.

One problem with electric cars is range from the charging station. But an electric tractor rarely strays far from its charging station.

Another problem with electric tractors is battery weight. But with an electric tractor, the extra battery weight gives better traction!

This electric tractor is solar powered. The whole homestead is solar powered! And Steve has a solar electric car too!

Steve talks about using hydraulic pumps for things like the load vs. linear actuators.

Steve mentions the porsche spider he once converted to an electric car.

The solar electric tractor is labeled SolTrac and Steve says that he is changing the name to SolecTrac.

We see the thing film amorphous solar stuff on his barn roof. Peel and stick roll out solar panels. 8kw (kilowatts).

Lithium batteries. 48 volt pack. Battery management system. Each cell is monitored during charging. A/C to D/C converter. A/C motor. Most electric cars use higher voltage for greater speed. 48 volts is great for a tractor. This tractor has a transmission including hi/low range. Linear actuators for the steering. Steve thinks this is better than hydrostatic.

Use a low geat for rototilling or mowing and a higher gear for using the loader.

Regenerative braking. $15,000 for an electric farm tractor. $30,000 for the fancy electric tractor (sans solar).

music by Jimmy Pardo http://permies.com/t/6301#62570]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178189 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178189 electric tractor tractor conversions. It's great that all these Aliss Chalmers G's are getting done but I would love to see some of the more popular tractors get converted. There were nearly 400,000 Farmall H tractors produced compared to 30,000 AC G tractors. I would love to see every small farm have one of these old tractors converted to electric. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178230 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178230 electric tractor http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178259 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178259 electric tractor
Kerry Rodgers wrote:Does this "model 12" support the easy battery swap talked about in the podcasts? Paul, do you have video of how Steve does the mid-day, quick pack swap?


That was an earlier model. This model does not have that feature. And he didn't have one that did this there.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178262 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178262 electric tractor http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178291 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178291 electric tractor tractor.

I would have to change how I work if I switched to electric, but that would be fine for everything except making hay. My problem is the cost vs. payback--I can build a fuel plant, either biodiesel press or alcohol still, for way less. But I have enough land to dedicate some to fuel production. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178390 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178390 electric tractor tractor. HP is a measure of power, nowdays we mostly use Watts, but for old cars and tractors we still talk about HP for some reason.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178515 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/178515 electric tractor ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/179297 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/179297 electric tractor gary]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/179710 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/179710 electric tractor tractor #12, so little introduction and some G stuff:

I've been into organic food and living ideas for a long time, before the legal definition, involved with NOFA when I lived up north. Along the way went to many workshops with presenters I now know as permaculture authors. I'm also into alternative energy and electric vehicles, on-road and electric tractors. I started out with a converted S-10 pickup truck and a GE Elec-Trak. After getting into the Elec-Traks, the parts supplier of 30 years in Wisconsin retired from that business and... it ended up with me, so I have a warehouse full of parts and blueprints etc. which I'm slowly listing on-line. Since moving to VA got lucky with some state rebates so have 12KW of solar on the shop roof and 2 KW on the house.

It is nice to find a place with others who share all the same intersecting interests. In response to the Electric G comments, I've worked on a G conversion, starting out with the Niekamp kit after visiting Ron on his farm (before he sold off that tractor). I ended up with a different design, but still have that kit sitting around unused. I'd love to find someone who wants it - I can get some of my money back and the new owner gets it way faster than 4 months turnaround since siting here ready to go. Also have a matching motor and controller if desired.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/180846 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/2741/180846