<![CDATA[permies: Latest posts for the topic "Aquaponics"]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/t/106/aquaponics/Aquaponics JForum - http://www.jforum.net Aquaponics pump to return the water).  I'm thinking maybe ferro-cement, but would that be okay for the fish?  I'll have to do some research to see what fish would work best here.

And it looks like it should be possible to add some other things to the system, like ducks and rabbits.  Chickens?  Earthworm beds?  Beds of marsh-loving perennials following the annual vegetables?  What else?  How to optimize production and minimize inputs?  I'm thinking of setting it up in a manner similar to a gray-water purification system....

We live in a dry climate (with cold winters), so anything that reduced the amount of water needed to grow food would be a good thing.  And reducing weeding would also be a good thing!

Kathleen]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9364 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9364 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9405 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9405 Re: Aquaponics
So, here is the fascinating thing:  They got one of those refrigerated trailers that you pull behind a semi truck.  They made it the roof for a greenhouse. 

The funny thing about refrigeration is that it is effectively extracting heat from the space that you want to be cooler.  So they take that heat and put it in the greenhouse.  So now they have a walk-in freezer and loads of heat for the greenhouse.

You might think:  but doesn't the heat pump use fuel?  Yes, yes, it does.  But it is all fuel that they have created on their land.  I cannot remember if they are doing a methane digester or extracting wood gas. 

Inside the greenhouse, they have an aquaponics operation setup.  The plan is to keep the greenhouse at a constant 86 degrees. 




]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9423 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9423 Re: Aquaponics
Ryan Lenz]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9457 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9457 Re: Aquaponics
doughpat wrote:
I've always had this grand idea of pairing fossil-fuel power plants with greenhouses.  It only makes sense--the waste products of one (CO2, H20 and heat) are the feedstocks of the other.    Then my pessimistic side says, "If that worked, someone would have done it by now".  I wonder how many brilliant ideas are delayed by that mantra....

Ryan Lenz


Ryan, I believe there are several greenhouses with just such a set-up in villages in Alaska, where vegetables mostly have to be flown in, and are very expensive.  Since electricity in those locations is generated by (also expensive) flown-in diesel, they want to get as much good from it as possible.  At least one village that I know of uses the waste heat from their generator to pipe hot water heat to all the houses in the village. 

Paul, that's an interesting idea.  I'd be interested to see pictures of that set-up -- I'm having a hard time visualizing a refrigerated container as a roof!  Wouldn't it work just as well as the back wall?

Kathleen]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9477 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9477 Re: Aquaponics http://backyardaquaponics.com/

He has veggie grow beds and fish tanks.  He pumps the poopy water from the fish tanks and runs it through the grow beds.  The plants absorb the nutrients from the water, cleansing it, and then the water returns to the fish tanks, over and over.

You can use anything of a suitable size, but the units he sells are so good-looking that you could have them in the entrance to the front of your home.

I've watched him grow from the basic idea to a full-fledged business over the last several years.  He has an online magazine, information, and a discussion board.

Sue]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9494 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9494 Re: Aquaponics Thanks for that link, Joel's site is very interesting.  I've always wanted to install a small Tilapia pond that would irrigate my raised beds via a drip system--maybe this will prove to me that it is in indeed possible! 

Ryan]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9581 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9581 Re: Aquaponics
Joel's kits are nice and you get the benefit of a "kit" type system and all the support they give but you can certainly DIY aquaponics, I know I did since ordering a system from Joel would have killed me on the shipping

If you have a nice slope to your land, definitely use it, It can really make for some good AP set ups.  Also, I highly recommend looking up CHIFT PIST over on the BYAP forum since it can mean a good amount of effort saved on cleaning the pump trap every few days (this is me kicking myself for not doing a CHIFT PIST system) fish poo and bio slime really can clog things quickly.  In a CHIFT PIST system, the water is pumped from a sump tank as the lowest point in the system up to the fish tank.  The fish tank is set up to over flow and carry solids into the grow beds where the gravel and earth worms can filter it and the plants then use the nutrients then the water can auto-siphon back down to the sump tank being much cleaned and ready to be pumped back up to the fish.

I've got about 90 some catfish and 80 some tilapia in my AP system and I'd better go out and tie up the tomatoes before they block the path and start charging a toll.   
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9682 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9682 Re: Aquaponics
To address your points specifically:

It looks like it should be possible to build your own set up for quite a bit less than the Aussie guy sells his for.  I would use gravity-feed as much as possible (our land has a slight slope, so I should be able to set up a gravity-feed system with a solar pump to return the water).


Totally possible.  I'd say the vast majority of people make a custom system.

I'm thinking maybe ferro-cement, but would that be okay for the fish?


IMHO, the jury is still out on unlined ferro-cement.  There's a guy in El Salvador using them, and he's having unexplained problems.  One cause might be the lye in the cement altering pH and leaching into the system.  If you line the ferro-cement with something already known to be fish-safe, you should be golden.

And it looks like it should be possible to add some other things to the system, like ducks and rabbits.  Chickens?  Earthworm beds?  Beds of marsh-loving perennials following the annual vegetables?  What else?  How to optimize production and minimize inputs?


All have been done, successfully, and are continuing to be researched by individuals in their own systems.  Compost worms will even live in your growbeds without any soil!  There's lots of people trying different things, especially to make the fish feed as sustainable as possible.  In aquaponics we are usually dealing with stocking densities higher than you would find in a natural pond.  As a result, we generally have to feed the fish in addition to whatever might naturally be in such a pond like algae, smaller fish, water plants, etc.

Some things people have tried out have included worms from vermicomposting, spent brewer's yeast, oatmeal, black spider fly larvae, and others I'm sure I'm forgetting.

I'm thinking of setting it up in a manner similar to a gray-water purification system....


That can definitely work.  The only caveat I would add is that when I think gray-water I think marsh plants.  When I think aquaponics, I think more food productive plants.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9785 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9785 Re: Aquaponics
When concrete is mostly cured (a minimum of 28 days), it is quite alkaline.  To reduce the alkalinity (and I don't know how long it takes), you have to repeatedly rinse or soak the concrete in water, then pour it off, repeat, etc.

EVENTUALLY, it will lower the alkalinity level so acid-loving plants can be grown in a concrete planter, but it's not a quick process.

One thing I can say is that I made some concrete spheres in summer.  I had to keep them damp so they would cure properly without cracking.  I filled up my dog's rigid plastic wading pool and put the spheres in it, then covered them with old towels that hung into the water and drew moisture upwards to keep the sphere's wet.

That water stayed clear for a LONG TIME!  And I didn't even completely clean all the existing algae from inside, just put some water in it and scrubbed it with a broom and called it good.  The algae never even thought of growing.

Sue]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9825 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9825 Re: Aquaponics
And it looks like it should be possible to add some other things to the system, like ducks and rabbits.  Chickens?  Earthworm beds?  Beds of marsh-loving perennials following the annual vegetables?  What else?  How to optimize production and minimize inputs?


It should be noted that when adding warm blooded animals into a closed recirculating system like aquaponics, you need to be more careful of possible food borne pathogens like salmonella and e. coli.  I'm not saying it can't be done but I am saying to do some extra research on those subjects before building your chicken roosts over the fish tank.

That said, there is a Duckaponics thread over on the BYAP forum (this started more so the owner of it could have nice clean water for the ducks and it worked out that filtering the duckpond water through the gravel grow beds made for much better smelling and looking duck pond without having to change out (waste) water all the time.  I believe that member has also gone on to build an actual separate fish growing Aquaponics system.

Trying to incorporate all the different animals into the same AP system might be more trouble than it's worth with all the extra variables likely to cause fish die off or other problem.

I definitely thing composting worms in the grow beds are a must (that is my personal opinion.)  then one could set up the worm composting pit under the rabbit hutches to have even more worms around for feeding to the fish and chickens.

Personally, I think I would save the chicken waste for regular composting, too hot for the worms and not really appropriate in a recirculating aquaculture system for the most part. 

I know in many pond culture sort of Aquaculture systems, they use manure (often chicken) to induce an algae bloom in the pond and the fish eat the algae.  This can work in a large body of water but still needs to be carefully managed as if the algae bloom gets too out of control, it can crash and cause major problems with pH and dissolved Oxygen and in turn cause a major fish die off.  Some people have been trying to figure out how to do the algae bloom feeding in Aquaponics but most of us avoid large algae blooms in our systems if we can since algae tends to cause daily swings in the pH and dissolved oxygen levels which are usually hard on fish, plants and bio-filter bacteria.  Plus the algae uses up much of the nutrients we were trying to have for the veggies we want growing in the grow beds.

Anyway, Aquaponics is great and a wonderful way to have animal protein growing in your own back yard even if you live in the burbs and arn't allowed other livestock!  It is also a great way to grow veggies even if you can't utilize the soil (like if you live on a barren concrete lot, don't laugh, I have seen some completely concreted in back yards before.)  An aquaponic system is also a really handy place to root cuttings.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9840 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9840 Re: Aquaponics
The advantage with using fish in the system rather than larger animals is the size and amount of their poop!  Larger animals have more solid poops, which would probably have to be mixed to liquify.  And you would probably need a larger setup to compensate for the larger amount.

Unless someone can offer a really brilliant idea, it appears that fish may be the best creature for aquaponics.  Larger animals would seem to complicate the system.  JMO.

Sue]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9880 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9880 Re: Aquaponics pond pleasant since they have such a way of being foul :wink  This way you can keep things simple enough to keep things balanced yet harness the nutrients in their waste.  Then again, if you have enough space and can simply put in a real pond, it could be a moot point.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9886 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/9886 Re: Aquaponics
Can you upload some pics of your system?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/10471 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/10471 Re: Aquaponics http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2640
I can link a few images here from that and from my web site.
http://www.aquaponics.tclynx.com/
This image is from last spring before I even lined one of the fish tanks

And this picture is after some major changes and the addition of some NFT pipes being fed by water that is already filtered by a couple grow beds


There is an article about my system in the BackyardAquaponics Mag that is available online
http://www.byapmagazine.com/

Quick system stats
aprox 900 gallons worth of fish tank volume though the biggest tank fluctuates in level.
aprox 1500 gallons of flood and drain gravel beds
Media is a mixture of river pebbles and washed sea shells along with some red lava rock in a few places
Pump runs continuously and flood and drain is managed with auto-siphons for the most part and a couple other tricks also tested out.  One giant grow bed is right on the ground and required a pump on a float switch to drain it once flooded, this pump feeds the NFT pipes and any other needs for well filtered water to avoid clogging with fish poo.
Currently I have about 165 fish in the system.  Channel Catfish and Blue Tilapia. 

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/10474 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/10474 Re: Aquaponics tomatoes have really turned into a jungle lately.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/10475 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/10475 Re: Aquaponics
I'm planning a free workshop where I'm going to expand one of my aquaponics systems and give others a chance to get a little hands on experience if they wish.
It is planned for December 11 and 12 from 10-4 with pot luck lunch. My place is near Mount Dora Florida

Here is a link to more information for those who are interested.
http://www.aquaponiclynx.com/workshop-dec-1112-2010

That site also is gaining more pictures of my systems and there are two videos to look at too if you are interested.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/50031 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/50031 Re: Aquaponics
Here's the growbed support I built:



Scrubbing out the growbeds:



Future new sump tank because the present one isn't deep enough:



Setup.  There will be more growbeds along the side:



I'll be raising Bluegill and Channel Catfish, which I hope to order in the Fall. 

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/89115 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/89115 Re: Aquaponics
New sump tank:



Floating islands planted with Chard, Lettuce and Basil:

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/91391 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/91391 Re: Aquaponics pump tubing to fill the barrels and put the floating islands in.  The lettuce seems to be doing especially well.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/91760 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/91760 Re: Aquaponics local car wash offering as many as i can take. Many say Poison and I dont feel awesome about the thought of my food contacting them. If algae is allowed to bloom, does that mean its ok?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/92229 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/92229 Re: Aquaponics on't use any container marked 'poison'."  ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/92234 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/92234 Re: Aquaponics
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/92810 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/92810 Re: Aquaponics


Why is there always a giant rock right where I want my sump tank to be?

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93440 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93440 Re: Aquaponics This is a lot of great information and I am seriously considering making the effort but I still have quite a few questions.  I have five elderly people to feed on one acre if things take a greater downturn.  700 000 new coops in Britain just last year.  Wow

Here's a link about diseases and stuff about tilapia

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa012

When I collect the crap runoff from the fish tank is it sufficient to collect it from the top?  It floats?  I don't need to vacuum the bottom?  Any bottom will do or do I need several inches of stone?

Tilapia are tropical so it doesn't matter how hot the water gets in my Florida tank?
What about on freezing nights?

I read and reread above that scum algae uses the oxygen that the fish need so I want to avoid it but  what if I have another dirty tank using human sewage for the growth medium.  How big would that tank have to be to grow enough algae to feed the fish?

What is a good size for 250 1 lb tilapia?  They eat two percent of the body weight per day in three feedings but how would I measure algae?  Should I dry it first for a better measure and to prevent it from growing inside the fish tank and to disinfect it from any germs in the dirty water?

I saw a tube where they fish crap runoff is kept for five days for the nitrogen to set.  Just letting it sit there 'sets' the nitrogen?  They kept scum out of that tank because it eats nutrients that they want for their grow beds.  How is that done?  (They run a tour and answer these questions but it's fifty bucks!).  Do they stir up the water before flooding the beds or do they filter the heavier stuff out or do they just flow it all in there and have a paper filter on the outflow pump?

I can eat lettuce but there are no calories for me or my chickens.  Can corn be grown easily or is it difficult for some reason?  Would it be better to plant corn in the ground and use a drip heavy in particulate?  Wouldn't a drip line with crap in it plug often?

Should I order stock fingerlings all male or should I include a few females or does it matter?

I planted my garden very late to take advantage of the summer rain but then got no fruits on the tomatoes, the squash and the cucumbers although they flowered.  Was it because they were out of the normal grow cycle?  Rabbits may have got to them so I am not sure.  Does seasonal cycle matter in grow beds that don't freeze and have some sun?

Thanks already]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93679 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93679 Re: Aquaponics
When I collect the crap runoff from the fish tank is it sufficient to collect it from the top?  It floats?  I don't need to vacuum the bottom? Any bottom will do or do I need several inches of stone?


I'm using Solids Lifting Overflow Siphons, which help bring up crud from the bottom of the tank.  Not putting any gravel on the bottom helps the SLO keep the bottom clean of muck.  I'll try to take a snapshot of my siphons for you.

 
Tilapia are tropical so it doesn't matter how hot the water gets in my Florida tank?
What about on freezing nights?


According to this site: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/tilapia/tankculture.php  Tilapia prefer water temps of 82-86F and will die below 50F, so you'll need to heat the tank in cold weather.


I read and reread above that scum algae uses the oxygen that the fish need so I want to avoid it but  what if I have another dirty tank using human sewage for the growth medium.  How big would that tank have to be to grow enough algae to feed the fish?


I'm guessing you mean for your human sewage tank to not be actually part of the aquaponics system, but a separate tank.  I can't speak to how large it should be, personally I would avoid any kind of open tank of human sewage but instead suggest either worm composting or subsurface-fed reed beds.

What is a good size for 250 1 lb tilapia? 


Backyard Aquaponics and Practical Aquaponics recommend a 1:1 or better a 2:1 ratio of growbed to fish tank volume.  1 lb of fish to 5 gallons of water is recommended, so for 250 pounds of tilapia you would need a total water volume of 1250 gallons, with half or more of it in growbed volume.  The larger the system the better as larger water volumes are easier to keep stable in terms of nutrients and ph and also change temperature more slowly, which is easier on the fish.

More about growbeds in aquaponics: http://aquaponics.net.au/blog/learn-about-aquaponics/grow-beds-in-home-aquaponics-system

I saw a tube where they fish crap runoff is kept for five days for the nitrogen to set. 


This isn't necessary if you use media-filled growbeds.  If you're only using water-filled growbeds with floating islands, you'll need to have a biological filter somewhere in the system.  This might just be as simple as adding some gravel to the bottoms of your island beds.  Most people use media-filled beds, it seems.  I'm planning to have both.

I can eat lettuce but there are no calories for me or my chickens.  Can corn be grown easily or is it difficult for some reason?  Would it be better to plant corn in the ground and use a drip heavy in particulate?  Wouldn't a drip line with crap in it plug often?


Personally I wouldn't bother with corn in the aquaponics system, there just isn't sufficient room for such a large plant and you'd need a huge volume of growbeds to produce sufficient calories.  Personally I'd look at the fish for calories and maybe also grow some fruit such as melons.  Extending your system to include poultry, rabbits, or guinea pigs gives more opportunities for calorie production.

Should I order stock fingerlings all male or should I include a few females or does it matter?


I don't know. 

I planted my garden very late to take advantage of the summer rain but then got no fruits on the tomatoes, the squash and the cucumbers although they flowered.  Was it because they were out of the normal grow cycle?  Rabbits may have got to them so I am not sure.  Does seasonal cycle matter in grow beds that don't freeze and have some sun?


Temperature affects pollination, especially in tomatoes.  You might not have enough local pollinators to do a good job on the squash and cukes so maybe next year try hand-pollinating and/or grow a lot of flowers to attract bees and other pollinators.  You  probably won't have to worry about rabbits in the aquaponics system!

Hope this helps.  Like I said, I'm just a beginner, but want to be helpful to other beginners. If I've gotten any of the above wrong, I hope a non-beginner will correct my info!

Lots of help at Practical Aquaponics http://aquaponics.net.au/blog/ and Backyard Aquaponics http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/index.php]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93682 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93682 Re: Aquaponics I tried to ask some questions that I didn't know and others might be interested in and I think you filled it out nicely
Thanks
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93690 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93690 Re: Aquaponics pump that water is a hydrolic ram pump, you had said the property is slopped and if the fall is great enough a ram pump works great and under its own power.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93692 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93692 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93694 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93694 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93697 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93697 Re: Aquaponics ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93707 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93707 Re: Aquaponics
H Ludi Tyler wrote:
Wow!  You're very fortunate to have that large "tank"!   


Yeah, never hurts to get lucky! lol.. This land was a mess when we got it, guess it was a old junk yard of sorts. That "tank" was full of burned trash from the old house in the pic and was also full of water. It is about the size of a dump truck bed and had to shovel it all out by hand.. WHAT A CHORE! I already have fish started in it and it holds temp and water very well, I plan on making the seed starting area above it and between the "tank" and house will be the nursery greenhouse. Cant wait to have it all done but it does take some time as you all know  Wish the permie powers that be would make a section just for aquaponics]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93718 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93718 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93719 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93719 Re: Aquaponics greenhouse.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93764 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93764 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93972 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/93972 Re: Aquaponics greenhouse similar to growing power but after I had finished the design I had second thoughts.  For our farm systems I always come back to is this place better off than when we started.  The question its self is totally subjective since every person has a different meaning for improving or at least little to no impact. 

I couldn't find a way that made doing it work for us.  When your using the grow beds you're removing a lot of soil biology that normally would interact with the plants.  Does that have an effect on the benefits the plants offer im not sure.  You are avoiding tilling but we have permanent no till beds so thats not affected.  You can grow more calories in a small space which could mean that you are having less impact.  But most folks who are doing aquaponics use a commercial fish food which is a by product of the large commercial fish industry that are destroying fish populations.  They also include different agriculture products that are grown far away then heavily processed then sent to you.  Increasing your gardens global footprint. You can supplement your fish food with BSF or duckweed but they don't meet the full protein requirements for the fish to keep up good growth. 

Then there is the whole plastic problem.  You may be growing in a smaller space but with all the plastic piping and tanks the chemical foot print your garden is using increasing dramatically.  Most of the plastic is PVC which is a pretty nasty thing to make and has lots of toxic by products.  Its made far away in villages that we dont have a relationship with so we can still feel like we are not making a big impact. 

Im sure there is a way to make it work out so the pros heavily outweigh the cons hopefully someone here can point them out to me.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94146 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94146 Re: Aquaponics
jbreezy wrote:

Im sure there is a way to make it work out so the pros heavily outweigh the cons hopefully someone here can point them out to me.


I think some (most? all?) of the evil is outweighed by producing one's food at home.  Especially if one can grow the fish food at home. 

In-ground natural ponds would be preferable but not everyone can have such a thing, especially in town.

I worry about the perfect being the enemy of the good in this case, and people being ok with driving to the store to buy packaged industrial food to avoid the evil of buying plastic tanks and a little pvc to raise fish and vegetables in their backyard.  ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94149 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94149 Re: Aquaponics



]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94152 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94152 Re: Aquaponics
"When your using the grow beds you're removing a lot of soil biology that normally would interact with the plants.  Does that have an effect on the benefits the plants offer im not sure."
In reality and IMO your not prohibiting this relationship, using creek gravel or clay it acts as a filter for the solids and bacteria will grow and break these solids down, after all it is organic matter. Plus adding compost worms to the system will really boost this eco system. As far as the health of the plant or the nutrition content of the plant that is decided by what you feed your fish, dirt farming is no different its what you feed the soil. Example would be this. The plant absorbs what is in its "soil", so you have an organic carrot that was fed compost, the compost came from a commercial non organic farm. That farms soil has been depleated and no longer contains the trace minerals, so the compost contains no trace elements so your carrot does not either. If you feed those tops to the tilapia your system will not contain the minerals either. Same goes with the crappy commercial fish food. But if you are feeding your fish wholsome nutrient DENSE food (from your garden), your system will contain the same thru the fish waste. Another Suggestion would be seaweed if your by a coast, this stuff is packed with trace minerals so I read. As far as getting protein there are several ways, make a 5gal bucket and put fish endtrails in it, drill holes near the bottom the let the maggots drop into tank. Vent out the roof of greenhouse, just got to get creative.

"You can grow more calories in a small space which could mean that you are having less impact."
This IS the case with aquaponics, in dirt you are limited by many factors and space is one. Space is a factor due to these factors, 1.) nutrients and 2.)water. There are only so much available nutrients and water supply per sq ft. In a aquaponics system you are really only restricted by actual space and light, your water and nutrient supply is never ending and thus elimitating the peaks and vallys associated with soil. This boosts growth and increases production ALOT.

"But most folks who are doing aquaponics use a commercial fish food which is a by product of the large commercial fish industry that are destroying fish populations.  They also include different agriculture products that are grown far away then heavily processed then sent to you. 
You can supplement your fish food with BSF or duckweed but they don't meet the full protein requirements for the fish to keep up good growth." 

Again, the maggots are a good choice to suppliment as well as black fly. Duckweed is still pretty high in protein @45%

"Then there is the whole plastic problem.  You may be growing in a smaller space but with all the plastic piping and tanks the chemical foot print your garden is using increasing dramatically.  Most of the plastic is PVC which is a pretty nasty thing to make and has lots of toxic by products.  Its made far away in villages that we dont have a relationship with so we can still feel like we are not making a big impact."

You can use poly tubing, copper or steel. I totally understand here and PVC is not the best choice at all, it off gasses some pretty bad stuff. I personally use poly tubing, over the life of this tubing in the system (forever) the benefits WAY out weigh the "cost". Permaculturally speaking this is a good thing.

Does anyone agree or disagree?

I hope this helps and provokes some thoughts  ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94191 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94191 Re: Aquaponics pond liner, this dramaticlly reduces the amout of plastic for the beds.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94194 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94194 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94207 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94207 Re: Aquaponics greenhouse in the middle of an economically depressed neighborhood in the city. We dug down about 6-7 feet in the floor of the greenhouse, and built a pump that takes the water from a few big barrels where its aerated, down to fish, up to two layers of veggie beds. They're just sandy and pebbeley and thats what we use to grow our veggies... We have tomatoes in it, and swiss chard and water cress.


The other one is exactly the same except instead of beds, theres 6 rows of 3 layered boxes that we stacked in a staggered fashion on top of one another. Filled with soil, we can direct sow and everything into them. The way the boxes are stacked makes it possible to have 4 plants growing in one box. The water has to be strained a little better with the pump system because we have it trickling down through very small tubes that get easily clogged]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94386 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94386 Re: Aquaponics feed to supplement in a meaningful way you would need way more space than is available for most people.  Maggots can drop your feed requirements significantly 50% or so if your really good.  But that still leaves a large amount of protein and calories that are coming from somewhere else.  And from what I see on the aquaponics sites that I frequent is that almost every person doing it uses commercial fish feed and those that aren't don't get very good growth.  And the only reason that fish food can exist is because we are stripping the ocean clean and any critter that isn't commercial viable by itself gets ground up and mixed with some grain and sold as feed. 
This creates the illusion that your growing in a very small efficient space, but your using acres and acres of ocean and field to grow that food. 

As you improve your soil your inputs decrease significantly.  As your improve your aquaponics system your fish needs stay the same your beds can improve.  Your inputs stay the same for the most part.  ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94398 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94398 Re: Aquaponics
jbreezy wrote:

This creates the illusion that your growing in a very small efficient space, but your using acres and acres of ocean and field to grow that food.  


Buying fish food isn't necessary, in my opinion.  But that's just based on opinion, not experience yet.  If you're still somewhat interested in aquaponics, maybe you could pioneer a low-impact system made of recycled and sustainable components,with home-grown fish food. 

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94400 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94400 Re: Aquaponics   :

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94870 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94870 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94908 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94908 Re: Aquaponics


Still a work in progress.  ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94962 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/94962 Re: Aquaponics feed on site.

A very crude energy analysis on this to figure out how much food growing space would be needed to produce 50 fish each 6 months is below.  The estimation it gives is that fish food growing for this system might need something around 13 square metres, give or take.  This certainly seems doable, unless of course you have your aquaponics setup on a balcony or something.

100 fish/yr x 500 g harvest weight = 50 kg total harvest per year
50 kg x 1.5 feed conversion ratio = 75 kg feed

Assume 11000 kJ per kg of food

Total food energy required = 75000 x 11000 = 825000 kJ = 229 kWh

Assume we can capture 2W/m2 of energy into food products 24/7.  That gives 17.5 kWh per square metre per year. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95020 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95020 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95090 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95090 Re: Aquaponics
It was really just a rough exercise to figure out if the area would be in the tens of square metres or hundreds of square metres.  If it is hundreds of square metres then jbreezy could be right in his comments.  But it seems possible in a smaller space.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95093 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95093 Re: Aquaponics   My plan is to raise Red Wigglers and Black Soldier Fly larvae on "waste" from the household and garden.  I also plan to collect "free range" Pillbugs and Sowbugs from my garden.

We'll see how that works out!   ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95094 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95094 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95101 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95101 Re: Aquaponics feed over winter. You also have all of the scraps from the system to feed year round.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95942 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95942 Re: Aquaponics
Manitou, how much duckweed would you feed per day roughly, and how much pellets/scraps/other?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95959 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95959 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95993 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/95993 Re: Aquaponics feed can be reduced by when feeding duckweed...?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96040 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96040 Re: Aquaponics feed at all Just duckweed, garden goods and bugs. So I gues my answer would be completely eliminated. But I am also not concerned with high production, only with a natural self producing system.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96124 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96124 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96145 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96145 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96192 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96192 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96225 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96225 Re: Aquaponics feed issue since I'm moving to a new place and will be setting up a new AP system.

I keep coming back over and over again to the Aztec chinampas system. Plus add in other closed-output systems like worms and BSF larvae.

I think it could be a very-nearly closed system.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96276 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/96276 quick question
(1) build a swale out of the side of a slope in order to create natural spring line down the hill,
(2) dig out a volume controlled pond at the spring line and just above the surface fix your tables around the pond for an aquaponics system.
(3) then build a geodesic dome surrounding the system to protect from floods... will a spring line keep a body of water steady to use ebb and flow tables with?
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97148 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97148 Re: Aquaponics pond at the bottom to recirculate the water back to the top of the system.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97152 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97152 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97157 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97157 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97193 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97193 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97196 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97196 Re: Aquaponics
I don't know if this link has been shared, but there is some good information to be found http://gardenpool.org/

The person is growing chickens, fish, and food all in an in ground swimming pool. He uses the chicken manure to cause and algae bloom, which is then eaten by the tilapia. The tilapia waste is then used to grow vegies and returned to the pool through the grow bed filter.

I just finished my first year of aquaculture a couple of weeks ago. I raised some blue tilapia from fry to harvest using a 120gal aquarium to start then transferring to a 8' inflatable intex pool in my yard for a grow out tank. The system was very simple and only used a sump pump and a biofilter. I floated rafts with lettuce on them as an experiment, it went well. Next year I plan to expand the system as well as the grow beds. I feed my fish mostly pellets, as much as they would eat in 10min. At least once a week I would overfeed the fish, this would cause an algae bloom and the water would look like pea soup. Tilapia have the ability to filter algae from the water with their gills to use as food. This comes in handy for the pregnant females who can't eat, they are mouth brooders. The "pea soup" can be controlled by how much you over feed, as well as how much light you let hit the water. After a day or two for pea soup I would use the sump to drain ~30%-50% of the water, watering my veggies with it, then refill.

Next year I plan to have a dedicated algae pond, as well as a dedicated duckweed pond. By using manure, from my rabbits, to grow algae and fish ammonia to grow duckweed I hope to be able to reduce my feed costs substantially. Hope this info is useful to anyone.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97250 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97250 im not an expert on black mica so I pond... you can scroll through the video bc it is long so I will give you a summary... it shows them putting black mica in a pond and the mica ridding the water of pollutants in 10 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZptViAI_Tg]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97254 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97254 Re: Aquaponics

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97256 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97256 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97257 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97257 Re: Aquaponics
Neal McSpadden wrote:
I've been thinking a lot about the feed issue since I'm moving to a new place and will be setting up a new AP system.

I keep coming back over and over again to the Aztec chinampas system. Plus add in other closed-output systems like worms and BSF larvae.

I think it could be a very-nearly closed system.


I also have been mulling over the idea of incorporating a chinampa system. I would like to be able to fence it and use it as a paddock system for the ducks I will eventually get. Maybe even use the land area in between as a rabbit / chicken paddock. Being on a semi island might keep the rabbits from burrowing away.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97261 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97261 Re: Aquaponics pump? how much water needs to come in?

thank you for sharing ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97265 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97265 Re: Aquaponics
Perma Republican wrote:
is it possible to hook up the tanks to a well pump? how much water needs to come in?

thank you for sharing


I believe the recommended water change for a recirculating aquaculture system (RAS) is 10% of the volume weekly. This could change based on stocking density as well as filter capacity. I had my sump hooked up with a float valve from the hose to make sure there was a constant water level. The only reason I drained mine ~30% - 50% was to water my veggie plots, approx.  1500sq ft worth.
An 8’ dia pool filled 2’ deep holds about 750gal or 100 cu feet.  I have read stocking at 1lb of biomass to 1 cu foot of water is a good rule of thumb, but again there is a huge amount of variables to consider.
Next year I plan to run drip irrigation to my plots and run the pump on a timer, with that combined with the auto float valve from my hose I should be able to automate my water changes.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97271 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97271 Re: Aquaponics
Brad Davies wrote:
I also have been mulling over the idea of incorporating a chinampa system. I would like to be able to fence it and use it as a paddock system for the ducks I will eventually get. Maybe even use the land area in between as a rabbit / chicken paddock. Being on a semi island might keep the rabbits from burrowing away.



That sounds like a great idea. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97279 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97279 Re: Aquaponics
Brad Davies wrote:
I believe the recommended water change for a recirculating aquaculture system (RAS) is 10% of the volume weekly. This could change based on stocking density as well as filter capacity. I had my sump hooked up with a float valve from the hose to make sure there was a constant water level. The only reason I drained mine ~30% - 50% was to water my veggie plots, approx.  1500sq ft worth.
An 8’ dia pool filled 2’ deep holds about 750gal or 100 cu feet.  I have read stocking at 1lb of biomass to 1 cu foot of water is a good rule of thumb, but again there is a huge amount of variables to consider.
Next year I plan to run drip irrigation to my plots and run the pump on a timer, with that combined with the auto float valve from my hose I should be able to automate my water changes.



A lot of people have found drip irrigation to be a problem with an aquaponic style setup. The drips get plugged up with bio-slime (technical term ).]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97280 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97280 Re: Aquaponics
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97282 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97282 Re: Aquaponics
H Ludi Tyler wrote:
I think you'd have to filter the water first before running it through drip tubes, even if it's been filtered through a grow-bed, the water seems to have a pretty large quantity of particulates.




I agree the water would have to be filtered for solids first. I plan to have the water get drawn off from the system after it has been through the solid seperator, but before the bio filter / grow beds. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97296 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97296 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97300 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97300 Re: Aquaponics   I wonder if a little fan could be included to whack them down if they don't naturally fall....]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97303 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97303 nice http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97346 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97346 Re: Aquaponics
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97351 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97351 Re: Aquaponics pond so no big loss in the minnows. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97507 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97507 Re: Aquaponics ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97651 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97651 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97704 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/97704 Re: Aquaponics The structure of the grow bed itself can be made out of a toxic-free heavy duty pond liner, a rigid plastic like a pre-made pond form or another material such as polyethylene. The bottom of the grow bed must be completely supported; there should be no flexibility to allow any movement in the grow bed. Many aquaponics companies offer "special" containers but you can use other containers if you choose as long as the material is potable. The sides of the bed should have at least a 6 or 7 inch height.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/99264 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/99264 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/99314 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/99314 Re: Aquaponics feed? From what I've read they appear to be fairly low maintenance/cost and pretty high in nutrition, would be interested to hear if anyone has tried this approach. Thanks!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/99559 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/99559 Re: Aquaponics
http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/

I will also be harvesting free-range land crustaceans (sowbugs/woodlice).

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/99566 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/99566 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/99929 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/99929 Re: Aquaponics ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/100010 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/100010 Re: Aquaponics http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/100234 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/100234 Re: Aquaponics ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/100254 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/100254 Re: Aquaponics


My BSF maggotarium and worm bin are to the right in the picture.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/100256 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/100256 Re: Aquaponics pond. The maggots dropped into the water along with bite sized morsels of carrion.  It was a long way from any house. The smel on hot summer days was intense.

    He sold clean sunbleached sculls after they spent a winter by the pond.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/100368 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/100368 Aquaponics in this podcast]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/120550 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/120550 Aquaponics pure permaculture but I also don't want to write it off as a bad idea. Like any idea, it can evolve into the ultimate Capitalist exploitation (in this case, mostly of fish) or it can be a reasonable approach to address a particular situation. Here's mine.
I live in rural Nicaragua. While I have access to a lot of land there are many poor Nicaraguans here that are pretty much subsistence farmers. Their diets tend to be mostly beans and corn with possibly some eggs tossed in. Green veggies are close to nonexistent.
What I want to do is develop what I will call the campasino aguaponics package. That is, some minimalist system using typical materials found here such that with little invest, a diet change could be effected. My scribbles about this are at Aguaponics for the people. I confess that being a geek I am getting carried away with some automation (which will be optional) but the goal is simple: greens for the people.
Paul's concern about cruelty to fish is real. Each new aquaponics article I read suggests higher densities. This is just like chicken farms. But, systems can be designed where fish density is lower.
One other issue is food. I am looking at black soldier fly larva as one possible food source. Again, that would not be the answer for those developing commercial aquaponics systems but it could fit in well with what I want to do. With a little bit of creative design, feeding could be automated (with no moving parts other than the larva).]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/120575 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/120575 Aquaponics
fyl Hatfield wrote: With a little bit of creative design, feeding could be automated (with no moving parts other than the larva).


I think this is very promising given the migratory behavior of the larvae. One could place the maggotarium next to the fish tank with a migration ramp to dispense the larvae into the tank. I might try this with my present maggotarium...The only problem with BSF larvae is they seem to be seasonal. But could be used in conjunction with other critters such as Red Wigglers and crickets.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/120585 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/120585 Aquaponics
Tyler Ludens wrote:The only problem with BSF larvae is they seem to be seasonal. But could be used in conjunction with other critters such as Red Wigglers and crickets.



Another advantage I have of living in the tropics. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/120586 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/120586 Re: Aquaponics
Manitou Designs wrote: Ok, here goes my 2 cents...

"When your using the grow beds you're removing a lot of soil biology that normally would interact with the plants.  Does that have an effect on the benefits the plants offer im not sure."

I am a newbie and not practicing aquaculture at the moment, but I have stocked my library with all kinds of books related to the transmutation of elements by microbes and plants, to the importance of creating vortices in water which can generate electrical charges which then assist in the creation of colloids (nutrients which are more easily absorbed by plants).

With this in mind, heavy metals and toxins can be neutralized by certain water plants making the issue of using plastic or PVC piping the lesser of evils in aquaculture. What is really dangerous is the anaerobic conditions where the bad bacteria live. Aerating by bubbling or letting the water fall from a higher level mimics the effects of naturally occuring rapids in a stream...thus creating a filmy colloid around microscopic particles which are easily absorbed by the toxin-loving plants.

I found that taking the time to study Nature reveals many answers to our questions.

If you are raising freshwater fish, like tilapia, go ahead and find a local creek or stream to introduce biological micro-organisms... even the mud has beneficial microbes. And introduce these with the filtration tank and purifying plants. I have included a link which will explain more thoroughly:

http://www.thegreencenter.net/]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/120592 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/120592 Aquaponics
Would an HDPE pond liner be safe (not leaching toxins) for a grow bed. I was first looking at making grow tubes out of pcv pipe but after some research that really doesn't seem safe.

I'm just planning a very small system to go over my fishtank.

Thanks!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/187633 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/187633 Aquaponics
I think I'll point out that, as long as sun and space are a given, the main limiting factor in aquaponics is oxygen. If you are okay with mechanically adding dissolved oxygen to your system, the number of things you can stock in it goes up. If you filter out solids that rob the aquatic environment of oxygen when they decompose, same goes. I still like the idea of filter feeders, crustaceans, and bottom-feeders, but I think that until you're dealing with setting up an actual pond ecosystem, its better to keep the parts that potentially conflict with eachother in separate stages of the system. This can be extended to include animal species outside the confines of the physical aquaponic system as well.

There is a thread here dealing with greenwater aquaculture that deals with a lot of this stuff in detail. It apparently came about post-Katrina, in attempting to find a no-input solution to the abandoned swimming pools-turned mosquito breeding swamps. The solution was found as well; some pools had thriving populations of tilapia and a bottom feeder that I forget for the moment. The tilapia had been eating the algae, and I suppose perhaps the mosquito larvae, and the bottom feeders were keeping the solids down. The focus is very specific, in that the goal is extreme minimum energy input to maintain the system, so mechanically added dissolved oxygen was a no-no, but it is a very useful study to demonstrate the potential and frailty of aquaponics and aquaculture in general.

One observation I've read made in yet another aquaculture thread is the observation from a mosquito-plagued area, that when the aquaculture (complete with aptly-named insectivorous Mosquito fish) was put in, the mosquitos flocked to it to breed, and the fish ate very well.

-CK]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/187710 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/187710 Aquaponics
I have a friend who is mad on turtles. He has so many that he spends an awful lot of time cleaning their habitat. He lives in an urban environment so I drew up some plans for him so that the dirty water was circulated through grow beds. He's a biochemist so he's into growing medicinal herbs, and has been bucketing the poopy water from his turtle enclosure to his herb garden.

The design I provided him incorporates aspects of a traditional herb spiral, but made out of guttering material filled with gravel, and supported with bricks. The spiral becomes a spirally pyramid where the poopy water is fed into the top and exits the bottom.

He can now fit a lot more plants into his growing space, the turtle habitat is pristine, and he's free to do other things than cleaning and bucketing water.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/189429 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/1540/189429