<![CDATA[permies: Latest posts for the topic "hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate"]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/t/117/hugelkultur/hugelkultur-hot-arid-climate JForum - http://www.jforum.net hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate I'm going to try it in one of the beds here, but it'd be nice to know what others have to say about it.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110389 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110389 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/t/17/permaculture/hugelkultur I'd suggest reading all of it and gleaning what applies to the hot and arid location you are in.

I too struggle with keeping things moist and I am going to try several different strategies incorporating rotting wood including raised bed, level bed and burying the logs below walkways to, over time, create a noncompactable walkway also capable of absorbing/storing moisture. As it is now my walkways become hard deserts and I'm sure this impacts root growth on adjacent plants.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110411 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110411 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate









Last year I installed these buried wood beds throughout one half of my kitchen garden; here's how it's looking today:

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C.J. Murray wrote:I too struggle with keeping things moist and I am going to try several different strategies incorporating rotting wood including raised bed, level bed and burying the logs below walkways to, over time, create a noncompactable walkway also capable of absorbing/storing moisture. As it is now my walkways become hard deserts and I'm sure this impacts root growth on adjacent plants.


I worry about the walkways too. Good idea.

Thank you for the pics. It looks like only a small amount, less that a foot, of soil is going atop the branches? Do you take care to get soil in between the branches or are air pockets desireable?

Thanks]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110673 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110673 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
In the picture above of the kitchen garden, the entire area is buried wood, including the paths. I can't decide if I want to do the other garden that way or leave the paths just soil....
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Tyler Ludens wrote:In the picture above of the kitchen garden, the entire area is buried wood, including the paths. I can't decide if I want to do the other garden that way or leave the paths just soil....

Wow that had to have been alot of labour. An area of each could serve as an example of benefits/drawbacks of each. That would be interesting.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110794 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110794 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110801 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110801 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate alot of work, but by improving the path areas you give the plant roots more area to expand. The roots don't know that it is a path and that they should not go there. I have never lived in the desert, but I have read that the indians used to make small raised walls around each small bed to protect the small plants from wind damage. Once the plant was more established it would grow over the short wall and be harty enough to survive the drying winds. With that information I am thinking that you do not want to raise your beds very high above the basic ground level. If the beds do end up being slightly raised because of all the extra material you have added maybe you could do what the indians did and make a low raised wall around the bed to protect your seedlings entill they get established. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110807 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110807 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110813 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/110813 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate trees they can cut down, but we can't afford anymore deforestation in the name of agriculture here. Without wood, does it work? Are there alternatives to wood?

So, how can we implement these methods on brittle/dry lands (the vast majority of the world's land)?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111204 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111204 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Abe Connally wrote:I, for one, would love to see this in practice in my semi-arid climate. I'm sure it works great for folks that have plenty of trees they can cut down, but we can't afford anymore deforestation in the name of agriculture here. Without wood, does it work? Are there alternatives to wood?

So, how can we implement these methods on brittle/dry lands (the vast majority of the world's land)?

i am in a SEMI arid area but the main thing for me is that there are not very many native trees in my area, all the ones existant are PLANTED by people
my solution is to, instead of cutting a new tree
collect firewood from people who don't want it anymore, if theres any in your area
collect pallet's from shipping yards and such, break them up and remove nails and you got soemthing there
offer to cut down dead trees and remove them(stump not included) for free

basically just use whatever wood you can get your hands on that doesn't have chemicals from paint and stain etc in it, just my idea to gather wood for hugelkultur
also i don't know if anything else will work too well, but i supposed you could use any organic material as it all will gather some moisture, just not as good at retaining water and releasing it at a controlled rate

NOT a proffessional and haven't done a hugel bed as of yet, though i plan to, so this is advice from learned knowledge, not experience and nothing more]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111211 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111211 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Abe Connally wrote:
So, how can we implement these methods on brittle/dry lands (the vast majority of the world's land)?


I think it might be worthwhile to try it using other carbon-containing materials such as grass, Opuntia, branches from shrubs, etc.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111215 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111215 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
While I can see hugel beds being beneficial in wet climates, I have yet to see them in action in dry climates for an extended period of time. I think there are more things to consider here than just adding organic matter to the soil.

Burying a large amount of debris could have an affect on the soil's ability to retain moisture in a dry climate, but for specific cases only. If you have a lot of mulch on top, or clay soil, I question the ability of desert rainwater to penetrate the pile down to the debris for storage. I'm not saying it doesn't work, just that i haven't seen it work.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111218 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111218 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
I'm not in a true desert, rather in a semi-arid area. Soil is clay.



]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111219 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111219 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate organic matter from breaking down and building humus in the soil. This is especially true for any south-facing slopes.

I expect the wood buried in my hugelkultur trenches to still be somewhat intact 10+ years out for some of the larger pieces.

If you have any slope to your property, combining the grubekultur (trenches) with swales slightly off contour should allow for penetration into the soil. It has worked for our clay loam so far.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111225 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111225 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Now, if we could have 1,000 more people like you, we could have some good data to review!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111240 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111240 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate In areas without many large trees you take what you can get, wood is wood as long as it's not treated or something like cedar, or walnut. Pallets are sometimes made of very hard woods that could take longer to decay.
I've put the word out for tree trimmings despite much of it being rather small. I can stomp it all down though to get as much of it in the bed as possible. We had an Indian Fig (like a huge prickly pear) go down in the yard so I'll use that too. I got a truckload of leaves and will probably cram some of those in too.
The bed's already dug to about 2 feet and I'm hoping to fill it to 2 feet above ground level. I'm concerned that the above ground soil will lose too much moisture, but we'll never know till we try. The possibility of not needing much irrigation is just so appealing.
Our soil is very clay, I mix it half and half with manure. That way the soil is looser and holds water better. I'll do the same with the hugelbed.
Abe, in what specific cases would burried wood prevent the soil from absorbing moisture? All I can think of is that the hugelbed would absorb so much moisture that less would be available for the surrounding soil.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111244 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111244 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
sheryl hansen wrote:
Abe, in what specific cases would burried wood prevent the soil from absorbing moisture? All I can think of is that the hugelbed would absorb so much moisture that less would be available for the surrounding soil.

It shouldn't prevent the soil from absorbing moisture, but it has to have moisture to absorb. So, the little rainfall that is received must make its way down through everything to get to the wood. This may not be the most appropriate thing in a dry climate. Even clay soil on top of the pile would prevent some absorption.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111258 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111258 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111261 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111261 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate

this is a picture of Sepp Holzer's work in spain. Looks like a hugelbed to me.

for many more pics go here http://www.krameterhof.at/Fotoalbum/spanien_2006/index.htm]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111263 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111263 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
PS. It is ALOT less work not to try. Do what ever you think is Best. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111265 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111265 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Marianne West wrote:

this is a picture of Sepp Holzer's work in spain. Looks like a hugelbed to me.

for many more pics go here http://www.krameterhof.at/Fotoalbum/spanien_2006/index.htm

wow, those trees in the background are beautiful!

I'm not saying that it won't work, just that I haven't seen it work in semi-arid areas like mine. I would love to see it work here, but again, I don't have the wood to invest in something that "might" work.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111268 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111268 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111269 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111269 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Tyler Ludens wrote:The picture does not look like a "desert" to me. That looks a lot more like our area than like yours, Abe! Plus Spain is WAY far north compared to you. People just don't appreciate the importance of latitude to the issue of rainfall and evaporation. Much of England gets around the same amount of rainfall as Central Texas. Seems like I hardly need mention Central Texas does NOT look like England. What you and I would like to see, I bet, is someone successfully practicing these techniques in North Africa. I'm at the same latitude as Cairo, Egypt, and you're south of me.

Yeah, that's right, something in North Africa would be very useful. We were part of the same drought that hit, you, too, so things that work for you usually work for us.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111272 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111272 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Abe Connally wrote:
Tyler Ludens wrote:The picture does not look like a "desert" to me. That looks a lot more like our area than like yours, Abe! Plus Spain is WAY far north compared to you. People just don't appreciate the importance of latitude to the issue of rainfall and evaporation. Much of England gets around the same amount of rainfall as Central Texas. Seems like I hardly need mention Central Texas does NOT look like England. What you and I would like to see, I bet, is someone successfully practicing these techniques in North Africa. I'm at the same latitude as Cairo, Egypt, and you're south of me.

Yeah, that's right, something in North Africa would be very useful. We were part of the same drought that hit, you, too, so things that work for you usually work for us.


i strongly suggest you go to Sepp's side and check it out. The whole point is that it didn't start out that way. his project in Spain has about 12" of rainfall, the one in Portugal 3". he has done the technique in all kinds of climates. Again, go to the side and check it out. You don't need to understand German to understand the pictures - to see how the environment changes year after year after year.......

Also, you can get Sepp Holzer's permaculture book in english and he writes about his experience. By the way, he started doing what he is doing about 40 years ago and everybody around him said that it can't be done (in his location). guess what, it worked.....
But in the end, it doesn't matter what you choose to do. if you want to dig and do it that way - all the power to you. I myself am lazy. I would try it first piling things up on top, follow the other advice, like to plant perennials from seed on the location so their tap roots develop long and strong - and if after a couple of years nothing grew: Start digging. just how I would do it - not saying that that is a better choice.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111275 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111275 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Abe Connally wrote:
sheryl hansen wrote:
Abe, in what specific cases would burried wood prevent the soil from absorbing moisture? All I can think of is that the hugelbed would absorb so much moisture that less would be available for the surrounding soil.

It shouldn't prevent the soil from absorbing moisture, but it has to have moisture to absorb. So, the little rainfall that is received must make its way down through everything to get to the wood. This may not be the most appropriate thing in a dry climate. Even clay soil on top of the pile would prevent some absorption.


it says to pile it up with organic materials, compost and gardening soil - so, if clay it should be mixed with lots of well rotten organic material and absorb just fine.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111277 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111277 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Marianne West wrote: his project in Spain has about 12" of rainfall,


12 inches in Spain is probably double the "rain value" of 12 inches in Mexico. Like I said, people don't appreciate latitude. The difference in evaporation and transpiration is huge.

I'm hoping some of these techniques will enable us to improve the water holding capacity of the land, hopefully lessening the evaporation anyway. Nothing we can do about transpiration, the plants still need to deal with the much more intense sun we get down here.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111282 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111282 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
12 inches in Spain is probably double the "rain value" of 12 inches in Mexico.

For sure, cause we don't have huge forests like that down here, yet we receive closer to 20 inches a year.

Thanks, Tyler for your example. I will try like that and see what happens. If it works for you, it has a great chance to work for me.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111285 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111285 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate Water catchment can be made by forming the land around the bed to be sloped towards the base of the bed. With the clay soil we have here even lighter rains would flow to the beds base and into the wood.
North African hugelculture is exactly what I'd like to read about! I'm appreciating having access to what other's are doing and thinking about the subject, thanks.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111290 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111290 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate organic matter addition would be of the most use. I’m going to learn from it and let it educate me. I’ve been looking around as I travel to see what natural areas and areas disturbed by man are telling me. Even with the low rainfall we receive here, unless it is an area that is simply bare clay, the disturbance I see creates places where water collects and enhances vegetation.

I decided to create swales on a limited basis and see what simply slowing the water down would result in. If the swales are actually catching water which otherwise will run away and be gone then I should see a change in the vegetation fairly quickly. I should see a more vigorous green strip. I’m not talking about huge swales. I’m talking about something I can dig by hand for 20 feet in multiple areas. If I see the change in the vegetation then I will know burying the wood will probably only enhance this process. The hand dug swale I envision will be a narrow trench with the dirt removed being on the downhill side.

If there is a lack of wood I think the only thing one can do is create his own organic matter. It’s not going to be as fast as an area with more rainfall. But all I know to do is go to work at it. Russian Olives grow here easily, some say invasively, but I view them as a gift; a nitrogen fixing, fast growing gift. Look for fast growing items which can be planted next to a narrow trench swale and begin the process. See if there are plants which will grow and thrive right in the swale. A narrow trench will be a perfect place for grass and leaves to get stuck. Nature sure doesn’t wait for me around here so I tend to think a little help goes a long way.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111291 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111291 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate trees you are admiring in the Spain project - they were all dying. The are stone oak which live 100s of years and they were dying because the area was turning into a desert.
I don't know where Abe lives, but there are pics of projects in Ecuador, Brazil and Columbia...]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111310 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111310 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Elevation can be a big factor. We are at about 6500 ft elevation, and we get a LOT of wind. Wind has a significant drying effect.

Latitude - lower latitudes are exposed to more sun, and have greater evaporation rates.

Sun days per year - we virtually never get a full day without sun. Yeah, that's right, we have close to 350 sun days a year. That means that the sun is out causing more evaporation for most of the year.

Wet/dry seasons - we get no rain between October and June. We get all of our yearly rain between July and September. sometimes it comes fast and hard, other times slow. But, whatever falls in that time must last a long time.

The project in Portugal is at 28 degree latitude

Portugal is 37-42 degrees.
I am 29.

Also, the trees you are admiring in the Spain project - they were all dying. The are stone oak which live 100s of years and they were dying because the area was turning into a desert.

That is too bad. They looked great in the photo.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111363 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111363 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate how it was accomplished. I intend to read his book(s) to see if there's information that'd be helpful. Maybe your point is simply that it's doable?
Abe, sounds like you have the same rain patterns as here, we're at 2500ft though. What's a normal morning low for you in winter and daytime high in summer? ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111392 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111392 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111394 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111394 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
The project in Portugal is at 28 degree latitude
Portugal is 37-42 degrees.
I am 29.



You are right. I got the Spain project mixed up with Portugal. It is in Tenerife at 28 latitude.
And yes, you are much higher.

it seems that what we are learning here is that we just have to try it out and share what happens. We already know that the sunken ones seem to work well - don't know how a raised one would have done in the same area. looks like only one way to find out - doing it.....
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111460 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111460 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
I've got some juniper trimmings I could use, and I might be able to find some other wood down near the river (poplar, cottonwood, willow). I think Tyler's suggestion of wetting it down is a good one, but I might have to wait until rain season to make it.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111487 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111487 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Honestly, given the amount of wind you have and the long dry season I'd stick with something level or only slightly mounded on the uphill side to act as a water catchment. Unless you are planning on irrigating in some manner to establish well. If you are not going to irrigate I think it will take a different plant regime than if you are. What do you want the bed to become?

Size will depend on your desire and how much wood you have. I'm going to be placing single large fireplace lengths buried and slightly mounded in selected areas so I can easily ring and cover with plants and see what happens. I think a season or two of observation will give one a lot of information and confidence.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111489 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111489 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
I'll start off small, like maybe the size of a truck bed, just to get going.

Juniper takes a while to decompose here, but it's what I have most of. If I can find other wood, I will use it. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111503 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111503 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111559 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111559 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111567 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111567 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
I think we could consider some more factors and techniques than just hugel beds. Though when you are in a dry climate any technique that suggests less need for irrigation might be something to try out i think it isnt necisary to make a holy grail out of building hugel beds. This technique originated in european climates, and even though spain doesnt get much rainfall, and a big part of the country looks like desert, it is in a much higher lattitude. Like some people allready pointed out, that makes up for different natural mechanisms at work.

When in a north african region, or something alike, I personally wouldnt go out all of my way just to build these hugel beds. Part of the system is based on building little hills, not only burying wood. And like Topic starter allready said, sunken beds in stead of raised beds are a much smarter thing in those climates. Also It might be worth while to look more at examples of permaculturalists who have been practicing in similar climates, like geoff lawton was in jordan, and morroco. Luckily australia, the place where permaculture evolved, has very similar climates, and people came up with all kind of solutions and techniques. Like creating shade by planting trees adapted to your region, and so layering your garden (or stacking in space).

Strategies like adding organic matter, not nessicarily wood, but any kind of OM you can find does improve the soil's ability to retain moist and not tilling of the soil also gets way more important the closer to the equator you get. Then there are all kind of techniques like the use of stones and rocks to collect dew can be of great help.

I am not saying not to use buried wood when in north african type regions. If you do have a source for wood it could help a lot, though it stil might be wise to dig even deeper to bury the wood so you can still have sunken bed (with buried wood). The permaculture design manual and other australian recources cóuld be more helpfull when in this climates then sepp's book or patrick whitefields, because they are based on european climates.

And me too, am curiously awaiting results from all you brave desert dwellers who are going to experiment with buried wood.

cheers,]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111581 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111581 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
We averaged a 1/2 gallon of water per square foot of wicking bed per week during on of the worst droughts in the last 50 years. I don't know how that would compare to a hugel bed in the same conditions, but it certainly worked for us.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111594 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111594 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111602 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111602 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Abe Connally wrote:


We averaged a 1/2 gallon of water per square foot of wicking bed per week during on of the worst droughts in the last 50 years. I don't know how that would compare to a hugel bed in the same conditions, but it certainly worked for us.


People seem to suggest the mature hugelkultur should not need any irrigation. I don't know if we should realistically expect that in our region, as examples of no-irrigation growing in low rainfall areas seem to be from northern regions.....I guess I'm a bit skeptical about the plausibility of being able to grow all our favorite garden plants with no irrigation in our region...and am waiting to see if I can do without irrigation in my buried wood beds, eventually.....]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111607 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111607 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Below the bed, it might be good to have a clay subsoil to prevent vertical movement of water. If this formed a nice dish to allow a water reservoir below the plants, it would greatly increase the efficiency of irrigation. This would probably fade as deep roots penetrate, but by that time, the above ecosystem should be fairly established.

Creating an air space and water delivery below soil would be a good idea, too. Getting the water down to the wood is the hardest thing in our climates, mainly because of high evaporation and wind. If we can apply the water in a way to avoid the evaporation, it might be successful. So, adding a big drain pipe in the bottom wood layer might be a good idea.

Hugel beds that incorporate wind breaks and shade are a necessity, and shouldn't pose any design issues. Start with shade cloth and shaped mounds, and gradually transition towards trees and shrubs.

I have my doubts that hugel beds can remove the need for irrigation in my climate, especially for the 8-9 months of dry season. Having said that, if the beds increased the water efficiency as well as wicking beds, it would be a great development for our region. They're construction is simpler and cheaper than wicking beds, and I like the idea of being able to grow deep-rooted plants.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111641 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111641 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111648 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111648 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
It is similar to what we use in the wicking bed, a distribution pipe below the roots of the plants. From what I've tried, it is the most efficient way to distribute water and air underground. Media, like gravel and rocks, are useful for water distribution, but if you want to go more than a few meters, pipes are much better.

One end of the pipe would need to be exposed so that it could be filled with water.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111664 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/111664 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/124931 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/124931 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
I tried that now for two years in Germany and during last years very very dry spring it was fantastic
to see that the areas covered with a 1-2 inch layer of wood chips was still moist after 2 weeks sun and no watering.

We will try 1-1,5m high hugelbeets in the Sahara on our next project, www.agniculture.net as well as covering them with wood chips as i did in Germany.

It worked well over here and i hope sby has more experience with it and is willing to share infos so i can avoid unnecessary mistakes

cheers

mike

here s a video of the hugelbeete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90882zWXCUk&list=UUON4PcGV12rztkfLeL5Km6g&index=1&feature=plcp

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143688 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143688 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
michael wuest wrote:

We will try 1-1,5m high hugelbeets in the Sahara on our next project, www.agniculture.net as well as covering them with wood chips as i did in Germany.


Very interested to see how it works there!

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143703 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143703 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate Abe,

If you're still reading this thread, could you explain your wicking beds in more detail.
Your comment on using pipes to get water & AIR to the roots caught my eye.

Getting enough air to roots has been the limiting factor in my clay soil and semi-arid climate (14" rain/yr, no rain june-oct)

The big advantage to hugelkultur for my garden, I believe is the better aeration, it still needs irrigation.

I've done sunken beds like Tyler. And I'd be very happy if the stumps in the ground last 10 years aerating roots the whole time.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143749 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143749 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate trees and half of the terrain dry hard clay which we will have to turn into sth i don t know yet what exactly. The hugelbeete covered with wood chips seems to be the bet solution. A daily Agnihotra will do its share to change the soil, too.

The wicking beds i never read about so i m curious too, also the aeration of the roots when you have hard clay soil is interesting because that is exactly what we have. If you check out the pictures on my site you can see for yourself. www.agniculture.net

Cheers

Mike]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143757 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143757 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Interesting video you have, wires in the bed?
I like to try crazy experiments, will have to put a couple in one of my beds too!

As for aeration tunnels, I found a gopher tunnel under one of my plants, it kept the plant from wilting.
http://lowcostvegetablegarden.blogspot.com/2012/07/gopher-aeration-tunnel.html

Cheers

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143854 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143854 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Marianne West wrote:
Abe Connally wrote:
Tyler Ludens wrote:The picture does not look like a "desert" to me. That looks a lot more like our area than like yours, Abe! Plus Spain is WAY far north compared to you. People just don't appreciate the importance of latitude to the issue of rainfall and evaporation. Much of England gets around the same amount of rainfall as Central Texas. Seems like I hardly need mention Central Texas does NOT look like England. What you and I would like to see, I bet, is someone successfully practicing these techniques in North Africa. I'm at the same latitude as Cairo, Egypt, and you're south of me.

Yeah, that's right, something in North Africa would be very useful. We were part of the same drought that hit, you, too, so things that work for you usually work for us.


i strongly suggest you go to Sepp's side and check it out. The whole point is that it didn't start out that way. his project in Spain has about 12" of rainfall, the one in Portugal 3". he has done the technique in all kinds of climates. Again, go to the side and check it out. You don't need to understand German to understand the pictures - to see how the environment changes year after year after year.......

Also, you can get Sepp Holzer's permaculture book in english and he writes about his experience. By the way, he started doing what he is doing about 40 years ago and everybody around him said that it can't be done (in his location). guess what, it worked.....
But in the end, it doesn't matter what you choose to do. if you want to dig and do it that way - all the power to you. I myself am lazy. I would try it first piling things up on top, follow the other advice, like to plant perennials from seed on the location so their tap roots develop long and strong - and if after a couple of years nothing grew: Start digging. just how I would do it - not saying that that is a better choice.


Where did you get the information from that the Portugal site (Tamera) only gets three inches per year ? That is completely wrong. In the last seven years for example the average rainfall has been 29 inches !!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143856 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143856 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Tyler Ludens wrote:The picture does not look like a "desert" to me. That looks a lot more like our area than like yours, Abe! Plus Spain is WAY far north compared to you. People just don't appreciate the importance of latitude to the issue of rainfall and evaporation. Much of England gets around the same amount of rainfall as Central Texas. Seems like I hardly need mention Central Texas does NOT look like England. What you and I would like to see, I bet, is someone successfully practicing these techniques in North Africa. I'm at the same latitude as Cairo, Egypt, and you're south of me.


What you say makes a lot of sense. I don't know central Texas but if it gets as much rainfall as parts of England then it also gets very similar rainfall to the drier parts of Portugal too.

Having lived in both London and central Portugal which have very similar annual rainfall figures the differences in vegetation is very clear. Somebody coming here for say a holiday in the middle of summer would struggle to believe that it gets the rainfall is does. But the sunshine is so much stronger here, and the rainfall is generally completely absent for around 4 months in the warmer part of the year. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143857 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143857 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
after watching the site you linked it fell onto me like a boulder, of course, the reports i ve seen and never understood where exactly about that, AERATION of the roots. I have seen several websites where they filled the beds, hugel and normal with a thick layer of rocks, and now i caught at last why, get some air to the roots ))))

The wires aren t weird at all, some german railway worker figured it out after observing that near tracks which are heading exactly north-south the greenery is tenfold as all other tracks. He experimented, was successful and got lots of trouble then like everybody who discovers the good stuff.

In german it s called orga urkult and i got it linked on my site, there is a friend of mine who s doing sth similar in france and his site s in english just google up yannick van doorne, really nice chap and good ideas

thanks again, cheers

mike

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143869 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/143869 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Groves, in addition to the hugelkulture might help.

I'm in South Australia where the evaporation is three times the rainfall and find that many of my healthiest plants are growing in shady spots.

I too have clay soil and the water runs off it so I've been digging out all my paths and using carpet underlay as a weed mat then mulching over the top. The underlay acts as a sponge and so my paths are staying relatively moist and gives an opportunity for plants to spread their root systems.

Also another idea that I am currently trying is to bury my worm farm underground and it has many holes in the sides for worms to tunnel in and out of the soil. Worm castings underground are a good way to improve water retention in the soil. So far this idea is working fine, I have many worms traveling through the soil to deposit their castings and they feed in the laundry hamper I buried.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144200 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144200 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
also the water is actually not a problem, we got enough, but from the river and well, no rainfall worth mentioning here

i wonder if i dig out the paths between the hugelbeete a little deeper, fill it with weeds or mulch to store water and cover that with a layer of rocks and gravel so water can move where its soaked up best might be a good idea

that way i d have some decent paths to walk on and get through with a wheelbarrow, same time the ground would be covered, no evaporation and water stored beneath the stones

the worm farm is a great idea, i hope i can find some there, if not i ll have to get some from the atlas 500km up north

i love rain worms as we call them in germany, up there we got plenty and they turn sand and dirt into a wonderful soil very fast

thanks for the idea,

cheers

mike

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144231 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144231 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Eric Markov wrote:
Abe,

If you're still reading this thread, could you explain your wicking beds in more detail.
Your comment on using pipes to get water & AIR to the roots caught my eye.

Getting enough air to roots has been the limiting factor in my clay soil and semi-arid climate (14" rain/yr, no rain june-oct)

The big advantage to hugelkultur for my garden, I believe is the better aeration, it still needs irrigation.

I've done sunken beds like Tyler. And I'd be very happy if the stumps in the ground last 10 years aerating roots the whole time.



Here's info on wicking beds. These things work really well, both for aeration and water retention.

http://www.velacreations.com/food/plants/annuals/item/108.html]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144235 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144235 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate Nice blog, look forward to your book!
Living off-grid is probably a secret desire for many, that many would like to read about.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144260 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144260 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Eric Markov wrote:Living off-grid is probably a secret desire for many, that many would like to read about.

well, I hope so, for my book's sake! ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144265 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144265 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
I'm going to stick with straw and wood chips as they are very easy to dig out and put on the garden when they break down.

The worm farm does work well. I used a laundry hamper but I think multiple PVC pipes with holes in the side scattered throughout the garden would be even better. Then the worms form their own underground superhighways between the various food sources rather than just hanging around one. Also the laundry hamper takes up a bit of space.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144299 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144299 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Abe Connally wrote:
Eric Markov wrote:Living off-grid is probably a secret desire for many, that many would like to read about.

well, I hope so, for my book's sake!


Sign me up for a copy! More examples are needed from hot dry climates. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144352 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144352 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate i thought living off the grid is quite normal, on the other hand Africa is not the US . If you want some info about what we do to stay off grid just send an PM, cheers, mike

Hi Peta,
OMG, good that you mention it, i completely oversaw that, i would have been pissed off when the paths would start to sink once the mulch and other plant stuff would turn into soil and absorb the gravel on top of it. thanks a lot for that one.
And the clay will be easily compacted before putting gravel on it, so it will serve as a river bed, no water passing through. Sorry, since we saw the report PLASTIC PLANET i just avoid any kind of plastics wherever i can.

I don t want any plastic on our land, nightmarish poisonous stuff. I think some nice clay or ceramics tubes, flower pots or similar with little holes drilled through will do as well for a worm farm.

cheers

Mike

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144355 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144355 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Tyler Ludens wrote:Sign me up for a copy! More examples are needed from hot dry climates.

If you are interested in the book, go here to pre-order: http://www.indiegogo.com/foodweb

michael wuest wrote:i thought living off the grid is quite normal, on the other hand Africa is not the US . If you want some info about what we do to stay off grid just send an PM, cheers, mike

It depends on where you are. We have been living off grid for about 12 years, now. It has not been common in any of the areas we've seen or traveled in. Even here in rural Mexico, there are very few people off of the grid.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144363 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144363 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate

So, have we determined if there are any examples of hugelkultur growing "a typical garden without irrigation or fertilization" in an actual desert?

Or not?

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144366 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144366 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144367 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144367 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Tyler Ludens wrote:I will do that, Abe.

So, have we determined if there are any examples of hugelkultur growing "a typical garden without irrigation or fertilization" in an actual desert?

Or not?



I have determined that I cannot find one example of anyone doing it in a climate similar to mine. I have, however, made some trenches and filled them with stuff I can find, mostly juniper, brush, and grass. I haven't covered them yet, though in some of the hard rains we've had lately, the silt is filling in all on its own.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144371 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144371 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.richsoil.com/hugelkultur/ I would like that claim to be based on factual example.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144373 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144373 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Tyler Ludens wrote:Thank you, Abe. It's often difficult to get real clear answers. It can be distressing if something is claimed about a technique but there are no examples of it in action. I want it to be true that hugelkultur will allow people "to grow a typical garden with no irrigation" in the desert, as is claimed. http://www.richsoil.com/hugelkultur/ I would like that claim to be based on factual example.


well, your examples are the closest things to success in my climate, though I think you guys get a bit more rain that us (still, it's close enough). I think you said that yours do well, but you still need to water, right?

In my area, fertilizer is not an issue, our soils are pretty rich, though they do lack organic matter. But, the big thing is irrigation, and even with irrigation, a lot of things don't make it.

I'm almost tot he point where I focus on just growing during the rainy season (when we have one) and in the wicking beds (very conservative with water). Beyond that, I harvest edible weeds and grasses for us an the animals. The weeds do great around here, and some of them are more nutritious than anything I typically grow in my garden, so I don't mind taking advantage of that free resource!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144380 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144380 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
I would love to have weeds, we barely have any, and when they come up, the deer eat them.

I sometimes wish I could become a venisonitarian. Deer seem to grow here better than anything!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144384 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144384 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Tyler Ludens wrote:Yep, still watering. If I stop watering, the eggplants stop putting on fruit. I think it's possible after a couple more seasons and more layers of material (I keep adding mulch and soil on the beds), I might be able to stop irrigating. But it is not an immediate effect in beds the depth of mine.

I would love to have weeds, we barely have any, and when they come up, the deer eat them.

I sometimes wish I could become a venisonitarian. Deer seem to grow here better than anything!


that's kinda our approach with the weeds. Eat what is already growing without requiring much effort. We don't have many deer here, but I envy you, because I love venison.

our place is covered in weeds and grasses this year, mainly because of the 10" of rain we received in July. purslane, lambsquarters, amaranth, and maximillian sunflowers are the most prevalent, but there are many others. All of those are great for the animals, too, so I've been weeding the garden, and dumping bucket loads of weeds to the rabbits on a daily basis. They've never been so happy!

I wish I had things together a bit more, but I really need some sort of machine to chop the fresh weeds into tiny pieces so that I can press them into cubes for feeding the animals during the winter. I haven't seen any garden shredders anywhere around here... It seems like a waste not to take advantage of all this lovely nutrition while we have it!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144388 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144388 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144423 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144423 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Traditional horticultural advise and experience tells me raised beds = improved drainage, not something surely you want in a hot arid climate ? Making a bed the shape of a house roof as is advised in Pauls's hugel article cannot to me make sense. The house of a roof is designed to efficiently/quickly shed rainwater. So why design a system that encourages the rain to do the same thing ?

I have to admit I have not tried hugelkultur. I am especially sceptical about it as an idea in hot/dry climates. Paul says these beds should be around 6 feet (2 metres) high. I reckon such beds would need masses of irrigation here, even with 30 inches of rain a year.

Would it not make more sense to dig out a trench, and do all the normal hugel stuff, but end up with a bed level or even slightly lower than the surrounding soil ?

As has been said before, i would agree also that in truly arid/hot climates, wood would be a very precious commodity. Surely you would not want to be cutting down the few remaining trees in such a landscape.


]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144432 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144432 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Yone' Ward wrote:Here in Washington State we have an interesting problem with living off the grid. If you don't have a power bill to prove your address, you can't get your new address put on your driver's license. It could be an interesting legal issue. You must be a customer of a public power company to get a drivers license when you move? Does your book cover that?

well, I know that places require bills for proof of address, but are you sure they will only accept a power bill? In New Mexico (where I have my license), they also accepted bank statements, internet bills, phone bills, etc.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144433 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144433 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Mark Harris wrote:If you assume for a moment that burying wood in the soil has a beneficial effect on plant growth by whatever process, whether it be the nutrients stored in the wood, the 'sponge effect', or just the extra aeration of the soil, why would you want to create a raised bed ?

Traditional horticultural advise and experience tells me raised beds = improved drainage, not something surely you want in a hot arid climate ? Making a bed the shape of a house roof as is advised in Pauls's hugel article cannot to me make sense. The house of a roof is designed to efficiently/quickly shed rainwater. So why design a system that encourages the rain to do the same thing ?

I have to admit I have not tried hugelkultur. I am especially sceptical about it as an idea in hot/dry climates. Paul says these beds should be around 6 feet (2 metres) high. I reckon such beds would need masses of irrigation here, even with 30 inches of rain a year.

Would it not make more sense to dig out a trench, and do all the normal hugel stuff, but end up with a bed level or even slightly lower than the surrounding soil ?

As has been said before, i would agree also that in truly arid/hot climates, wood would be a very precious commodity. Surely you would not want to be cutting down the few remaining trees in such a landscape.


yeah, you bring up some good points, but a lot has to do with how you set up the bed. Once of things about arid climates is that when we do get rain we get a lot of once, and localized flooding is common. So, if you set up your bed as a type of swale, with the ground around it sloping towards the base of the bed, I can see that the bed would become a storage of water, without your plants being drowned by the torrential rains.

That being said, I would not make the bed like a roof of a building, but a bit more flat, possibly even with a miniature trench on top to help water soak in. And it wouldn't be 6 ft tall, either. a few feet might be advantageous though, especially if you can situate them to help block the winds. the key, though, is to get the water to the base of the bed, where the wood is, so you still want the surrounding area to slope towards the bed.

Wood is definitely hard to come by, but there is a lot of trimming that can be done, as part of maintaining the trees that are established. But, why stop at wood? there are lots of shrubs, ag wastes, grasses, etc that could be used. I even think rocks could be beneficial, if done right, to create cavities below the soil for water to gather.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144434 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144434 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144437 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144437 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Mark Harris wrote:Yes a swale around 2ft high (with special water absorbing properties) makes perfect sense to me. In fact that is what I suggested on another thread a few weeks ago. But apparently Sepp Holzer said to Paul W.and others they need to be MUCH higher, and very steep sided to work properly.


well, maybe in their climates, but in an arid area, I doubt making them tall and steep would help anything, and at the very least, it would increase runoff in the first hard rain. A lot of the techniques for temperate areas don't translate to arid areas without modifications.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144442 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/144442 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate I've constructed 2 quasi hugel beds - dug a hole, filled with wood, up to ground level so it will be sunken in the end.
My problem is what to put on top - we have no turf, and the soil is actually sand with a VERY high pH. My project has no funds for transport to import good soil from anywhere.
I am thinking about using a mixture of cardboard, seaweed and compost (we are making as much as we can).
Any suggestions or thoughts, please?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176442 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176442 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate cardboard. Cardboard can form an impervious layer which keeps water from penetrating.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176466 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176466 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Marianne West wrote:

this is a picture of Sepp Holzer's work in spain. Looks like a hugelbed to me.

for many more pics go here http://www.krameterhof.at/Fotoalbum/spanien_2006/index.htm


oh! I think great look. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176488 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176488 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate locust pods work great, this is because when you dont get much water to begin with, wood on the surface holds more water than ever comes from the rain, and it will take all the moisture and leave none for the soil below or the plants

also, can someone go into more detail on those wires?
do you run anything electrical through them or does simply having them do the trick?
is it enough to simply bury them a few inches and run them direct NS? also is it best to run them true north, and true south or does magnetic north and south work?

from that video, have you tried moving the wires to another part of the yard? i think that the solid white wall could be waht makes those plants grow better where they are, from better light absorption, the one wall that runs perpindicular to the beds has brown on the bottom, but that one is all white, and what direction is it facing as opposed to the brown wall?
it seems an interesting concept these wires, but before diving in i'd like to see some legit proof of it working because it seems more labor intensive and involved than simply planting some seeds or something...]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176510 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176510 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Abe Connally wrote:
Mark Harris wrote:Yes a swale around 2ft high (with special water absorbing properties) makes perfect sense to me. In fact that is what I suggested on another thread a few weeks ago. But apparently Sepp Holzer said to Paul W.and others they need to be MUCH higher, and very steep sided to work properly.


well, maybe in their climates, but in an arid area, I doubt making them tall and steep would help anything, and at the very least, it would increase runoff in the first hard rain. A lot of the techniques for temperate areas don't translate to arid areas without modifications.


Abe, I respectfully disagree. Tall raised beds act as wind breaks and since dessication by hot, dry wind is the primary cause of evaporation large wind breaks (raised beds) act to protect plants from dessication. This effect is enhanced when using a series of raised beds built parallel to each other. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176528 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176528 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176596 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176596 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
We've done hugelculture in sub mediteraean semi arid climate with raised beds as a roof strucutre.
Lots of wind and strong sun made this beds heavily water dependant! It's not working.
It's not possible to have a growing area on a mound.
It's not so much about how it's built, but where you plant your veggies.

On the other hand, we've done hugelculture with 1m depth of a trench, filling with woody material, mostly part roten stuff, sawdust, chicken manure, green stuff and with lots of watering all the time. We filled the trench to 60cm, then added 20cm of top soil and left 20cm of space, so the bed was sunken. In addition we made a wall from rock around. Now that's working!

How can swales work in Jordan for Geoff Lawton?
Because the swale is not growing area, it's only a mound for wind protection.
The planting was not done on the swales, but in the trenches.
Support species were planted on the up side of the trench, productive species on the lower side of the trench.
The bottom, lower side and up side of threnches were irrigated, lots of mulch covering the whole trench, pipes and drip lines.

So, if you make a big mound parallel to one another to block the wind, you still want to plant in the mids or more to the bottom of the mounds, not on the mounds.
Yes, you might have a bit less wind, but there is still sun shining and you will have to water like crazy to keep mounds moist.
Top of the mounds would probably be paths.

Humid has growing area on mounds, on swales.
Arid in trenches, sunken beds, wicking beds. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176680 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/176680 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Great thing to do whenyou receive a group of high-energy university students! They love it!
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/182305 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/182305 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/182306 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/182306 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
Marsha Hatfield wrote: as well as establishing some fodder trees


Did you plant trees on the top of the mound? Or on the sides? Or in the trench? Did you irrigate and how often?

Thanks! Just need more details.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/182320 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/182320 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate organic matter did you use, how high the mounds, which direction do the beds face, etc. I am in a very windy, semi-arid location, gardening on pure sand--no topsoil and very little OM unless I haul it in from a town 18 miles away. We have been digging sunken beds, but it is a great deal of work with pick and shovels to break through the hard compacted layer beneath the loose top sand. (My son joked that the dirt hadn't decided yet if it was sandstone or sand).

I too appreciate your sharing this tidbit--it's a teaser!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/182478 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/182478 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate The trenches are almost a meter deep, which are filled with mostly rotten cashew wood ( a fairly soft wood), as farmers prune their trees once a year and burn the residue (!). WE also add burnt bones and clay from the bottom of a dry lake, and charcoal if we have some around.
So the beds are about a meter high when finished.
We plant aloe vera on the top ( native here), as it resists the dry conditions.
In the depression at the bottom of the bed we put coconut shells ( easy to get here), and plant the fodder trees in this depression on the leeward side of the mound.
But even on the windward side things grow better than on the level.
I am actually in doubt as to when to seed the beds, as it does seem anti-intuitive to seed them in the hot dry sun.
And we do have a bit of difficulty of covering them- we cut branches from a local legume tree ( very thorny!) or a euforbiacea which is very resistent to drought and which we have in abundance here.
It hasn´t rained yet so we don´t know how these will react in the rainy season- (May) We´re actually in an 80-year drought, pretty dramatic here...(But we are much better off than what we see on the other side of the fence)
But seeing the improvement already, we have high hopes!
By the way , my name is Marsha Hanzi and not Marsha Hatfield, whoever she is...
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/183704 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/183704 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate For organic matter we have always used sisal ( or other agaves), cactuses, bromelias (including loe Vera) and euforbiáces, all which can create durable organic matter.
We are finally getting trees established, but in the first years we basically relied on these four families of plants to supply us with organic matter, and we still incorporate them into our composts.
And what we glean from the neighborhoos of course! If the farmer says he´s going to burn it, we ask to haul it away... "But Sr. Severino, those cocnut husks are fertilizer" "Oh yes, they are fertilizer!" "Then don´t you want to use them?" "No, I´m going to burn them!"]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/183705 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/183705 hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate
I just received the DVD about Yacouba´s anti-desertification work in the Sahael (Burkina Faso).
He had a stroke of genius: made holes , (his soil is also very hard), filled them with organic matter, and put in termites! The termites help to soften the soil below.
Today we were hauling some semi-rotten wood and were imnpressed that in two week´s time the termites had made a great change in the soil surface below the wood.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/183709 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12150/183709